Number of Anesthesiologists, AAs, and CRNAs by graduation year

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

amLOLdipine

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2015
Messages
136
Reaction score
82
OS5kO3rl.png


Interesting data. The sharp drop-off in the # of anesthesiology graduates in the 1990s is clearly evident here, and it seems like we may be headed for another one of those in the future, unless IMGs/FMGs pick up the slack.

Also interesting is that the # of AAs has barely made a dent, while the # of CRNAs has seen a huge increase in the last decade or two.

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Would love to see a more updated chart, these past 6 years are probably a lot more relevant given the massive changes healthcare has seen.
 
OS5kO3rl.png


Interesting data. The sharp drop-off in the # of anesthesiology graduates in the 1990s is clearly evident here, and it seems like we may be headed for another one of those in the future, unless IMGs/FMGs pick up the slack.

Also interesting is that the # of AAs has barely made a dent, while the # of CRNAs has seen a huge increase in the last decade or two.

Didn't you already give up on anesthesia? Why are you still here?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
OS5kO3rl.png


Interesting data. The sharp drop-off in the # of anesthesiology graduates in the 1990s is clearly evident here, and it seems like we may be headed for another one of those in the future, unless IMGs/FMGs pick up the slack.

Also interesting is that the # of AAs has barely made a dent, while the # of CRNAs has seen a huge increase in the last decade or two.
Since 2010 several AA programs have started so that number is on the rise. It's still nowhere near the number of CRNA grads, but I'd guess around 400 a year?
 
Interesting data. The sharp drop-off in the # of anesthesiology graduates in the 1990s is clearly evident here, and it seems like we may be headed for another one of those in the future, unless IMGs/FMGs pick up the slack.

Also interesting is that the # of AAs has barely made a dent, while the # of CRNAs has seen a huge increase in the last decade or two.

Why would anesthesiology be headed for another future like that? Of course IMGs will pick up the slack. Doing residency in America is like winning the lottery to them. Don't fool yourself into thinking that another 1990s will happen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
OS5kO3rl.png


Interesting data. The sharp drop-off in the # of anesthesiology graduates in the 1990s is clearly evident here, and it seems like we may be headed for another one of those in the future, unless IMGs/FMGs pick up the slack.

Also interesting is that the # of AAs has barely made a dent, while the # of CRNAs has seen a huge increase in the last decade or two.

Where did you find this graph?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Members don't see this ad :)
CRNAs are so absurdly overpaid... I can't even begin to cope with how it's come to this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
OS5kO3rl.png


Interesting data. The sharp drop-off in the # of anesthesiology graduates in the 1990s is clearly evident here, and it seems like we may be headed for another one of those in the future, unless IMGs/FMGs pick up the slack.

Also interesting is that the # of AAs has barely made a dent, while the # of CRNAs has seen a huge increase in the last decade or two.
The data is so dated. Also remember counting both pgy 1 and pgy2 categories with anesthesia. (1100 plus 500) it's really close to 1600 finishing these days.

Just look at the match results data for 2016. And those fmg aren't going back to their countries either. Most stay on visa to work in USA.


http://www.nrmp.org/match-data/main-residency-match-data/
 
In the US, 150K is not the lowest salary. Even with full benefits, etc., there are numbers lower than 150K.

The lowest typical salary I've seen is about $125K for 40 hours per week. The highest salary I've seen is $300K 1099 for Solo CRNA at an outpatient center. With call and overtime (even just 10 hours per month) most CRNAs earn over $150K W-2.
 
The lowest typical salary I've seen is about $125K for 40 hours per week. The highest salary I've seen is $300K 1099 for Solo CRNA at an outpatient center. With call and overtime (even just 10 hours per month) most CRNAs earn over $150K W-2.
Blade depends on if Crna does own billing. I have said before in Alabama Crna only group each makes over 400k with 10 weeks off. They do work hard 60 hours a week. In North Carolina Crna only rural its around 300k easy job 35 hours a week with maybe 40-50 TOTAL OR cases each week FOR ENTIRE hospital (excludes GI coverage). Key word being doing own billing or having no one shave money off the top.
 
If you think they're overpaid then you're supporting the argument that we are overpaid. CRNA salaries are tied to MDA salaries. In fact, the stupidest thing the AANA freedom fighters are doing is claiming they can perform anesthesia just as good as MDAs. What they should say is: "Anesthesiology is dangerous and difficult, in fact the MD anesthesiologists deserve a 50% raise!". Because what they're doing now will lead to a pay cut for us, and consequently the CRNAs themselves.
 
If you think they're overpaid then you're supporting the argument that we are overpaid. CRNA salaries are tied to MDA salaries. In fact, the stupidest thing the AANA freedom fighters are doing is claiming they can perform anesthesia just as good as MDAs. What they should say is: "Anesthesiology is dangerous and difficult, in fact the MD anesthesiologists deserve a 50% raise!". Because what they're doing now will lead to a pay cut for us, and consequently the CRNAs themselves.

Are you seriously an anesthesiologist referring to yourself as an MDA?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
If you think they're overpaid then you're supporting the argument that we are overpaid. CRNA salaries are tied to MDA salaries. In fact, the stupidest thing the AANA freedom fighters are doing is claiming they can perform anesthesia just as good as MDAs. What they should say is: "Anesthesiology is dangerous and difficult, in fact the MD anesthesiologists deserve a 50% raise!". Because what they're doing now will lead to a pay cut for us, and consequently the CRNAs themselves.

Wrong because their goal is to get rid of anesthesiologists. Then they will have all the billing available for themselves.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Wrong because their goal is to get rid of anesthesiologists. Then they will have all the billing available for themselves.

I think their real goal is to have anesthesiologists do all their preops and take all their liability while they try to kill the patient. I'd say they've already accomplished that. They don't actually want us entirely gone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The highest paying nursing jobs are:
  1. Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist
  2. General Nurse Practitioner
  3. Gerontological Nurse Practitioner
  4. Pain Management Nurse
  5. Psychiatric Nurse Practitioner
  6. Certified Nurse Midwife
  7. Family Nurse Practitioner
  8. Informatics Nurse
  9. Clinical Nurse Specialist
  10. Nursing Administrator

http://nurse.org/articles/75/15-highest-paying-nursing-careers/
 
And this points out the BS with the graphics you post. This only for fields where women are at least 40% of the workforce (small print). I know for a fact that there are many fields where women make serious bank, just by nature of being in those fields. Quick example, the multitude of engineering fields and related jobs.
 
And this points out the BS with the graphics you post. This only for fields where women are at least 40% of the workforce (small print). I know for a fact that there are many fields where women make serious bank, just by nature of being in those fields. Quick example, the multitude of engineering fields and related jobs.

The graphic clearly states "women" and implies they are a significant portion of those jobs. Yes, Women CEO of Fortune 500 companies make serious money. Look at the CEO of Yahoo and the COO of Facebook. But, the majority of women seem to pick other fields which is why the graphic is both accurate and realistic for most women. I was surprised that Anesthesiology was not listed as I though this field had 40 percent women in it.

Again, your comments are simply wrong as it is quite clear (not very small print if you ask me)
about which type of jobs many women ( not all) choose to pursue for a career.
 
Last edited:
The graphic clearly states "women" and implies they are a significant portion of those jobs. Yes, Women CEO of Fortune 500 companies make serious money. Look at the CEO of Yahoo and the COO of Facebook. But, the majority of women seem to pick other fields which is why the graphic is both accurate and realistic for most women. I was surprised that Anesthesiology was not listed as I though this field had 40 percent women in it.
It's equivalent to a click-bait article. Those listed are not the "best paying" jobs for women.

Also, I like how you jumped to Executive level employment as your counterpoint. It is like me saying Manly Men only do manly jobs.
 
It's equivalent to a click-bait article. Those listed are not the "best paying" jobs for women.

Also, I like how you jumped to Executive level employment as your counterpoint. It is like me saying Manly Men only do manly jobs.

Whatever. I'm pointing out that women work in every field including the highest paying ones in the USA like CEO, CFO and COO. These women make $30-$50 million per year. That's the best paying jobs.

Many women choose different career paths than men. Even when they choose the same career path many don't work the same number of hours as men and seek a better work/life balance. The fact you choose to pick a fight over my graphic rather than respond with a better one of your own says it all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
My point continues to be that the graphic is misleading. There are no STEM occupations on that graphic, not direction tied to medical care, yet those are the same occupations that make >100k. By selecting only fields where there is an arbitrarily chosen ~40% of females working, it distorts the facts.
Even when they choose the same career path many don't work the same number of hours as men and seek a better work/life balance.
Please cite your source.

The fact you choose to pick a fight over my graphic rather than respond with a better one of your own says it all.
You're right, it does say it all. It says I'm able to read at more than a 5th grade comprehension level, can critically think, and can actually communicate information in an articulate manner without resorting to copy paste of random pictures or abstracts.

My source: http://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/womens-databook/archive/women-in-the-labor-force-a-databook-2015.pdf
 
My point continues to be that the graphic is misleading. There are no STEM occupations on that graphic, not direction tied to medical care, yet those are the same occupations that make >100k. By selecting only fields where there is an arbitrarily chosen ~40% of females working, it distorts the facts.

Please cite your source.


You're right, it does say it all. It says I'm able to read at more than a 5th grade comprehension level, can critically think, and can actually communicate information in an articulate manner without resorting to copy paste of random pictures or abstracts.

My source: http://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/womens-databook/archive/women-in-the-labor-force-a-databook-2015.pdf




In spite of its narrowing, the gender pay gap persists. Why is this? In our survey, women were more likely to say they had taken career interruptions to care for their family. And research has shown Roughly four-in-ten mothers say they have taken a significant amount of time off from work (39%) or reduced their work hours (42%) to care for a child or other family that these types of interruptions can have an impact on long-term earnings. member. Roughly a quarter (27%) say they have quit work altogether to take care of these familial responsibilities. (Fewer men say the same. For example, just 24% of fathers say they have taken a significant amount of time off to care for a child or other family member.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ng-you-need-to-know-about-the-gender-pay-gap/
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
In spite of its narrowing, the gender pay gap persists. Why is this? In our survey, women were more likely to say they had taken career interruptions to care for their family. And research has shown Roughly four-in-ten mothers say they have taken a significant amount of time off from work (39%) or reduced their work hours (42%) to care for a child or other family that these types of interruptions can have an impact on long-term earnings. member. Roughly a quarter (27%) say they have quit work altogether to take care of these familial responsibilities. (Fewer men say the same. For example, just 24% of fathers say they have taken a significant amount of time off to care for a child or other family member.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ng-you-need-to-know-about-the-gender-pay-gap/

Agree 100% . Love it when the equal pay proponents try to use the US women's soccer team as an example for equal pay. Sports/entertainment niche markets are vastly different than "regular joe" jobs. So it's not an equal comparison.

The real stat is women with no kids and same education/work experience/ make 95% as much as men!!!. That's the real apples to apple's comparison. The liberals try to spin it saying women shouldn't have to choose between having a family or having a career. But saying 95% of pay doesn't sound good to the liberal thinkers cause that's why to close to parity pay. So they know the public won't go for that state. Rather 78% of pay sounds much better for their argument for equal pay.

Same with CRNA vs MD pay. AANA loves to point out the "raw data" that anesthesiologists make twice (or more) as CRNAs. That they are more expensive to train etc. Yet when you consider the average CRNA works 36-40 hours a week and the average MD works around 48-52 hours a week. Plus the "premium pay for after regular hours work/calls". That salary comparions (in my opinion) makes the CRNA pay around 275K if they were to work same or similar hours to the average MD (around 320-340K these days). Still a "pay difference". Yet they also fail to factor in education level and training.

So on "raw data" the CRNAs even if working same hours and calls as MDs make around 15-20% less than MDs. But education level is much less as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
In spite of its narrowing, the gender pay gap persists. Why is this? In our survey, women were more likely to say they had taken career interruptions to care for their family. And research has shown Roughly four-in-ten mothers say they have taken a significant amount of time off from work (39%) or reduced their work hours (42%) to care for a child or other family that these types of interruptions can have an impact on long-term earnings. member. Roughly a quarter (27%) say they have quit work altogether to take care of these familial responsibilities. (Fewer men say the same. For example, just 24% of fathers say they have taken a significant amount of time off to care for a child or other family member.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ng-you-need-to-know-about-the-gender-pay-gap/
What does a commentary on gender pay gap have to do with the falsity of the graphic I keep calling out? Try and switch the narrative, but that doesn't change the discussion about that misleading graphic.
 
What does a commentary on gender pay gap have to do with the falsity of the graphic I keep calling out? Try and switch the narrative, but that doesn't change the discussion about that misleading graphic.
I don't think he's changing the subject. I think he's responding directly to your request of a source for women working less hours and seeking better work/life balance.

This is such a strange choice of confrontation. Of all the graphics Blade has posted, this is the one you decide to go after?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Ok but the real question is how do we fix this? CRNA's are getting extremely overpaid. What can be done about it?
 
I don't think he's changing the subject. I think he's responding directly to your request of a source for women working less hours and seeking better work/life balance.

This is such a strange choice of confrontation. Of all the graphics Blade has posted, this is the one you decide to go after?
No, he added qualifiers that were in no way included in the graphic. Such as number of hours worked for given pay. It is for this reason I included a link to the most recent BLS data which demonstrates that there are other occupations with "better pay".

And why this point / this graphic? Because I have much domain experience for this area as compared to others such that I can challenge a post of utter BS. Minimal effort is required on my part to highlight the absurdity.
 
Ok but the real question is how do we fix this? CRNA's are getting extremely overpaid. What can be done about it?
Seeing as you have no idea what a CRNA does or an anesthesiologist the thing to be done is take the opportunity to be quiet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Seeing as you have no idea what a CRNA does or an anesthesiologist the thing to be done is take the opportunity to be quiet.
Seeing as I can read what's been posted on this thread and can formulate an opinion for myself, I think you should take this opportunity to take a phallic object and go to town with it.
 
Seeing as I can read what's been posted on this thread and can formulate an opinion for myself, I think you should take this opportunity to take a phallic object and go to town with it.

Yeah, you're gonna do real well in your med school clerkships :laugh:
 
No, he added qualifiers that were in no way included in the graphic. Such as number of hours worked for given pay. It is for this reason I included a link to the most recent BLS data which demonstrates that there are other occupations with "better pay".

And why this point / this graphic? Because I have much domain experience for this area as compared to others such that I can challenge a post of utter BS. Minimal effort is required on my part to highlight the absurdity.

You are a butthurt feminist?
 
Just curious since you claim to have much experience for this domain area.

I agree with Blade's argument though. The income inequality myth is a myth. This is not 1976, although that was a very good year.

As far as CRNAs and equality....
I never voiced an opinion either way about the concept of income inequality. So ok, cool for you.
 
Top