nursing vs. physician

[anamed]

hey all, im a undergrad freshman @ a city college and am currently exploring medical careers. i know i wanted to specialize in medicine since the beginning of highschool. ive volunteered at hospitals, blood drives, camps for children with disabilities and took AP classes during highschool to acquire a better understanding. my question is when did you know you wanted to specialize in your medical field? why physicians and not nurses?
im asking this because i feel like i need to declare my profession now and work towards it throughout college.

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[Nasrudin]

Fortunately experience in healthcare helped with this decision. I had graduated emt class with the idea that I would go to paramedic school while working as a tech in the ED. I soon learned that the Fire Depaqrtment was a longshot--its very competitive where I live--and not based on one's ahcievement's or talent so I didn't relate to that. I was at a point where I was ready to challenge myself and work hard. I started taking the nursing pre-reqs at my local CC and was thinking about NP or PA as an eventual goal. After a while I realized that I was acing the nursing pre-reqs without breaking a sweat while my classmates seemed focused on getting through the prereqs and earning that high nursing pay and were just complaining alot about how hard the work was, so I didn't relate to this either. Right about this time I got really inspired watching a few exrodinary doctors at work in the ED and realized that this is what I had to do.
If I had a nickle everytime somebody said to me: "you're smart...you should become a nurse." or "When are you going to nursing school..." etc. I'd be rich! If you work in the lower eschelons of a hospital its assumed that being a nurse would be the pinnacle of your career.
My point is only that you should think hard and be as certain as you can with the information and experience you have.
Notably the two are by no means mutually exclusive. There are many stories floating around on these boards about nurses who are doctors or on their way to being doctors. But! Do not underestimate the time and dedication it takes to become an RN--to me this is the exact reason that I didn't go that route because I knew absolutely that I would be applying to med school anyway and even though nursing is lucrative and clinically educational, it has its own distinct hoops you have to jump through, that will take you down a different road for awhile. If you're young...then no problem. I'm 33 so that's a huge caveat to my whole schpeal I suppose. Anyway good luck with your decision!

 

[Callogician]

why physicians and not nurses.

Nursing wouldn't even make my top ten list of desired careers. The only aspect of nursing that interests me is the "medicine" aspect of nursing.

Need a specific example? No problem.

I think that one of the coolest aspects of medicine is using knowledge of medical science and clinical reasoning skills to make a diagnosis. Overall, doctors do much more of this than nurses (for PAs, it might be a different story, but I'm in no rush to get into the working world, and I wanted to have more options in medicine).

 

[ONYX4000GT]

I will NEVER settle for anything less than the best. Anyone can be a nurse, anyone can be a surgical technician, anyone can be a paramedic, yet not everyone can be a doctor. If you tell yourself: "I want to be a nurse." You KNOW you can be a nurse. If you tell yourself: "I want to be a doctor." Youll wonder if you can. Why live a life wondering if you couldve been a doctor? Why settle for anything less than a doctor? Some people strive to pursue the top, others settle for the median. For this reason, you have the people that succeeded in life, and the people that simply lived their life. Do what most people can not. It feels good when you get there.
-Former US Marine

 

[sistermike]

I started taking the nursing pre-reqs at my local CC and was thinking about NP or PA as an eventual goal. After a while I realized that I was acing the nursing pre-reqs without breaking a sweat while my classmates seemed focused on getting through the prereqs and earning that high nursing pay and were just complaining alot about how hard the work was, so I didn't relate to this either.

You probably weren't trying to imply this, but it sounds as if you were saying that nurses chose their profession because they could barely cut their pre-req's, so how could they cut med school pre-req's. That is by far not the case.

There is a world of difference between the profession of a physician and a nurse. It may not be apparent from an outsider, but there is. I am personally finishing up my BSN, but will continue with my pre-req's for med school. A lot of people choose to pursue nursing for a variety of reasons. The majority of people I have met have either chose this profession due their strong compassionate personality (I am one of those individuals). Nurses are the people that make a difference in the patients life. They are the ones that are able to make a true impact on the patient. Nurses are those that usually love patient contact. People have this misconceived idea that nurses are the doctors slaves -- this is by far not the case. Nurses act very independently and have come to learn that the nurses are the ones who usually tell the doctors what is going on with their patients and what route to take to better their patient. Many nurses also choose nursing over medicine due their ideas concerning family and life. Nursing is obviously a family friendly lifestyle, while medicine is usually not (it can be though).

I am personally going back to pursue medicine after nursing because I NEED to know more about the human body and how it functions. Nurses are VERY knowledgeable concerning the human body and how it functions, but physicians are 10 times more knowledgeable, and it bothers me not to know how something functions. Furthermore, I would prefer to an expert in a certain area (a specialization), and even though nurses can "specialize", it is still pretty general. I think autonomy and idependence also comes into play.

You should really research both and decide. There is nothing wrong with pursuing nursing, and if you decide that you would rather pursue medicine, to go back and finish your pre-req's and apply to med schools.

 

[baylormed]

I will NEVER settle for anything less than the best. Anyone can be a nurse, anyone can be a surgical technician, anyone can be a paramedic, yet not everyone can be a doctor. If you tell yourself: "I want to be a nurse." You KNOW you can be a nurse. If you tell yourself: "I want to be a doctor." Youll wonder if you can. Why live a life wondering if you couldve been a doctor? Why settle for anything less than a doctor? Some people strive to pursue the top, others settle for the median. For this reason, you have the people that succeeded in life, and the people that simply lived their life. Do what most people can not. It feels good when you get there.
-Former US Marine

You must be my lost twin brother. Your reasoning is freakishly equal to mine.

 

[sistermike]

I will NEVER settle for anything less than the best. Anyone can be a nurse, anyone can be a surgical technician, anyone can be a paramedic, yet not everyone can be a doctor. If you tell yourself: "I want to be a nurse." You KNOW you can be a nurse. If you tell yourself: "I want to be a doctor." Youll wonder if you can. Why live a life wondering if you couldve been a doctor? Why settle for anything less than a doctor? Some people strive to pursue the top, others settle for the median. For this reason, you have the people that succeeded in life, and the people that simply lived their life. Do what most people can not. It feels good when you get there.
-Former US Marine

I am not really clear on your understanding of the "best". I guess the idea of being the "best" is very subjective to the individual. Also, you talk about "succeeding" in life. That is also very subjective to each individual. Even though I will also be pursuing medicine, I have never thought about it as success. I look at it as something I am meant to do.

Furthermore, most people could easily become a physician. It isn't necessarily hard to become a physician -- just takes a large amount of determination and the willingness to put life on the back border.

Also, when you are on your death bed looking back at your life, will you honestly be thinking to yourself, "gosh, I am so glad I spent my entire life to be better than everyone else and to be a success." I would prefer to be thinking, "I am so glad I LIVED my life.. I am glad I had time to spend with friends and family and make a difference by raising such wonderful children..."

And if I were to compare you against a factory worker who was successful at raising 3 wonderful children, while maintaining an honest life with his wife and children.. just being a happy guy living life, enjoying life, raising children, and just maintaining what he has.... I would honestly see him as a far better success than you who was so conceded to think you had to be "better" than everyone else.

 

[sistermike]

I think that one of the coolest aspects of medicine is using knowledge of medical science and clinical reasoning skills to make a diagnosis. Overall, doctors do much more of this than nurses (for PAs, it might be a different story, but I'm in no rush to get into the working world, and I wanted to have more options in medicine).

You just pointed out the major difference between nurses and physicians. Physicians are basically taught to look the organ systems rather than the individual. Nurses are taught to not only look at the organ systems and the issues surrounding the disease, but to also look at the individual as a whole -- to look at them as people and not just another "case". Nurses are not really trained to "diagnose". To an extent they are -- but obviously no where near that of a physician. But then again, they are completely different fields.

 

[baylormed]

I am not really clear on your understanding of the "best". I guess the idea of being the "best" is very subjective to the individual. Also, you talk about "succeeding" in life. That is also very subjective to each individual. Even though I will also be pursuing medicine, I have never thought about it as success. I look at it as something I am meant to do.

Furthermore, most people could easily become a physician. It isn't necessarily hard to become a physician -- just takes a large amount of determination and the willingness to put life on the back border.

Also, when you are on your death bed looking back at your life, will you honestly be thinking to yourself, "gosh, I am so glad I spent my entire life to be better than everyone else and to be a success." I would prefer to be thinking, "I am so glad I LIVED my life.. I am glad I had time to spend with friends and family and make a difference by raising such wonderful children..."

And if I were to compare you against a factory worker who was successful at raising 3 wonderful children, while maintaining an honest life with his wife and children.. just being a happy guy living life, enjoying life, raising children, and just maintaining what he has.... I would honestly see him as a far better success than you who was so conceded to think you had to be "better" than everyone else.

I don't think he's saying it is "bad" to be anything else. And you might have answered your own question when you wrote that bolded statement. While it might not be harder in terms of the material than, say, being an accountant, it certainly is harder in terms of determination and sacrifice. That is the reason so many people give up along the way.

For example, thanks to that trauma surgeon who is willing to sacrifice some of his weekends and time with his family (as one of my interviewers, a trauma surgeon, told me), many of our friends and relatives can be operated on and kept alive and healthy.

I myself could have never been happy knowing that I could have been something higher in my field. That is why nursing would not have been enough for me, because although their job is just as important as the doctor's, they are NOT doctors.

Call us overachievers or gunners or what-may-you, but each one of us has to choose what is important for ourselves. For me, achieving a medical degree would be more satisfying personally than achieving a nursing degree. There are certainly other factors that went into my decision, but I am trying to answer your question.

Hope that helps.

 

[sistermike]

I don't think he's saying it is "bad" to be anything else. And you might have answered your own question when you wrote that bolded statement. While it might not be harder in terms of the material than, say, being an accountant, it certainly is harder in terms of determination and sacrifice. That is the reason so many people give up along the way.

For example, thanks to that trauma surgeon who is willing to sacrifice some of his weekends and time with his family (as one of my interviewers, a trauma surgeon, told me), many of our friends and relatives can be operated on and kept alive and healthy.

I myself could have never been happy knowing that I could have been something higher in my field. That is why nursing would not have been enough for me, because although their job is just as important as the doctor's, they are NOT doctors.

Call us overachievers or gunners or what-may-you, but each one of us has to choose what is important for ourselves. For me, achieving a medical degree would be more satisfying personally than achieving a nursing degree. There are certainly other factors that went into my decision, but I am trying to answer your question.

Hope that helps.

I completely understand that we all choose different professions for personal reasons. I am in the same boat as you -- I am pursuing medicine because I know that I will not be happy with my nursing degree. I need to further my education and knowledge concerning the human body. I feel that the only way to satisfy my "hunger" for knowledge and personal satisfaction.

However, the previous poster had posted, "Some people strive to pursue the top, others settle for the median. For this reason, you have the people that succeeded in life, and the people that simply lived their life. Do what most people can not. It feels good when you get there."

It bothers me to all end when someone (especially people who are pursuing are currently in the field of medicine) feels they are someone "better" than the rest, and they are a far more successful than that of the factory worker.

 

[ONYX4000GT]

I am not really clear on your understanding of the "best". I guess the idea of being the "best" is very subjective to the individual. Also, you talk about "succeeding" in life. That is also very subjective to each individual. Even though I will also be pursuing medicine, I have never thought about it as success. I look at it as something I am meant to do.

Furthermore, most people could easily become a physician. It isn't necessarily hard to become a physician -- just takes a large amount of determination and the willingness to put life on the back border.

Also, when you are on your death bed looking back at your life, will you honestly be thinking to yourself, "gosh, I am so glad I spent my entire life to be better than everyone else and to be a success." I would prefer to be thinking, "I am so glad I LIVED my life.. I am glad I had time to spend with friends and family and make a difference by raising such wonderful children..."

And if I were to compare you against a factory worker who was successful at raising 3 wonderful children, while maintaining an honest life with his wife and children.. just being a happy guy living life, enjoying life, raising children, and just maintaining what he has.... I would honestly see him as a far better success than you who was so conceded to think you had to be "better" than everyone else.

Im subjective? Who says one can't be a physician and have a family, raise beautiful children, and "live" a great life? I guess you assume that the people that want the MOST out of life, the best life has to offer, and the challenges of life's aspects, are conceded. Generally speaking, a "successfull life" includes family (but Im sure you knew that.) It seems like you also assume that these very same people are supposed to mutter to themselves on their deathbeds that they spent their whole lives "trying to be better than everyone else." Yea, Im sure doctors have that problem!
According to you, becoming a doctor is easy! Luckily, Im not gullible. As a fellow pre-med, I will not take that peice of advice. Your completely crazy stating that getting admitted into med. school is easy. Well, I guess people that are "meant" for it have no problem being admitted.
--to say someone is conceded for accepting a challenge -is ignorant.
--to say you cant be the best and have a full-filling family life also -is ignorant.
--to say most people could easily become a physician -is ignorant.
--You are

 

[NCF145]

It bothers me to all end when someone (especially people who are pursuing are currently in the field of medicine) feels they are someone "better" than the rest, and they are a far more successful than that of the factory worker.

Are doctors better than a factory worker? No. More successful? Yes.

 

[szhao]

i don't have the patience for a nurse ie its too boring, i mean doctors are boring enough, but nurses i just want to shoot my self

 

[ONYX4000GT]

You must be my lost twin brother. Your reasoning is freakishly equal to mine.

Im adopted. You never know! I just saw your mdapps profile. Congrats on the acceptances!

 

[spicedmanna]

Are doctors better than a factory worker? No. More successful? Yes.

If you mean that average physicians tend to make more money than average factory workers, then you are correct. There are many, many other ways of defining success, however, so I find comparisons of this sort very limiting and unproductive. Do whatever makes you happy to get up in the morning. That is all.

 

[sistermike]

Im subjective? Who says one can't be a physician and have a family, raise beautiful children, and "live" a great life? I guess you assume that the people that want the MOST out of life, the best life has to offer, and the challenges of life's aspects, are conceded. Generally speaking, a "successfull life" includes family (but Im sure you knew that.) It seems like you also assume that these very same people are supposed to mutter to themselves on their deathbeds that they spent their whole lives "trying to be better than everyone else." Yea, Im sure doctors have that problem!
According to you, becoming a doctor is easy! Luckily, Im not gullible. As a fellow pre-med, I will not take that peice of advice. Your completely crazy stating that getting admitted into med. school is easy. Well, I guess people that are "meant" for it have no problem being admitted.
--to say someone is conceded for accepting a challenge -is ignorant.
--to say you cant be the best and have a full-filling family life also -is ignorant.
--to say most people could easily become a physician -is ignorant.
--You are

I am not going to sit here and battle out who is right and wrong. However, when you speak of ignorance, your rebuttle to my points were pretty pathetic. Perhaps you should go back and read your original posting and see why you come off as ignorant. Furthermore, becoming a physican is not hard in terms of grasping the material. Pre-med classes are not necessarily hard. I think many people will agree with me that becoming a physician is "hard" in the sense that involves an amount of determination and drive that most people are not willing to give. It involves giving up a large portion of your life in order to have your nose in the books for numerous years, and then to work 80 hours a week during residency. It is not "hard" -- it is a lifestyle and career choice that involves far too much for an "ordinary" individual to forge forward into. Talk to a current med student and ask them if what they are doing is "hard". They will most likely respond by saying, "No it is not necessarily hard -- what is difficult is trying to read and understand the amount of information that is thrown at us and having to put our family and social life on the back burner."

 

[spicedmanna]

Well, here's the unarguable:

For ONYX4000GT, living a successful life includes becoming a physician.

 

[sistermike]

Are doctors better than a factory worker? No. More successful? Yes.

Success is obviously very subjective. I don't find education, training, and salary a scale to base success off of.

 

[ONYX4000GT]

I am not going to sit here and battle out who is right and wrong. However, when you speak of ignorance, your rebuttle to my points were pretty pathetic. Perhaps you should go back and read your original posting and see why you come off as ignorant. Furthermore, becoming a physican is not hard in terms of grasping the material. Pre-med classes are not necessarily hard. I think many people will agree with me that becoming a physician is "hard" in the sense that involves an amount of determination and drive that most people are not willing to give. It involves giving up a large portion of your life in order to have your nose in the books for numerous years, and then to work 80 hours a week during residency. It is not "hard" -- it is a lifestyle and career choice that involves far too much for an "ordinary" individual to forge forward into. Talk to a current med student and ask them if what they are doing is "hard". They will most likely respond by saying, "No it is not necessarily hard -- what is difficult is trying to read and understand the amount of information that is thrown at us and having to put our family and social life on the back burner."

Ok. You won. Im ignorant and medical school is easy to get into.

 

[sistermike]

Well, here's the unarguable:

For ONYX4000GT, living a successful life includes becoming a physician.

That is fine. I will not argue that. As I mentioned, success is extremely subjective and we all see success as something different than the person next to us.

 

[szhao]

obviously a hot gf is not in his definition of success, so u can give mr. monkey a break now

 

[ONYX4000GT]

Well, here's the unarguable:

For ONYX4000GT, living a successful life includes becoming a physician.

Haha, yea!

 

[ONYX4000GT]

obviously a hot gf is not in his definition of success, so u can give mr. monkey a break now

sz.. haha the current one will go, yes.

 

[NCF145]

Success is obviously very subjective. I don't find education, training, and salary a scale to base success off of.

What do you consider success?

 

[sistermike]

Ok. You won. Im ignorant and medical school is easy to get into.

Yes.. easy... that is definitely what I was trying to prove. As I posted before, it requires an amount of determination that most people are not willing to give. If people were willing to spend the required amount of time on their studies to achieve decent grades, then it really wouldn't be that difficult. Fortunate for me, there are 1000's of applicants who didn't have the drive and determination to study adequate amount of time in their undergrand to achieve a G.P.A. > 3.5. I am not saying it isn't "easy" or "hard". As I said before, the content part of undergrad and med school isn't hard persay ... it truly depends on the person and their drive and determination to try and understand the material. I don't think there are any classes that are "hard". As long as you are willing to put forth the time and effort in the class and outside of the class to read the material and to make sense of it, everything else should follow.

 

[Nasrudin]

I started taking the nursing pre-reqs at my local CC and was thinking about NP or PA as an eventual goal. After a while I realized that I was acing the nursing pre-reqs without breaking a sweat while my classmates seemed focused on getting through the prereqs and earning that high nursing pay and were just complaining alot about how hard the work was, so I didn't relate to this either.

You probably weren't trying to imply this, but it sounds as if you were saying that nurses chose their profession because they could barely cut their pre-req's, so how could they cut med school pre-req's. That is by far not the case.

There is a world of difference between the profession of a physician and a nurse. It may not be apparent from an outsider, but there is. I am personally finishing up my BSN, but will continue with my pre-req's for med school. A lot of people choose to pursue nursing for a variety of reasons. The majority of people I have met have either chose this profession due their strong compassionate personality (I am one of those individuals). Nurses are the people that make a difference in the patients life. They are the ones that are able to make a true impact on the patient. Nurses are those that usually love patient contact. People have this misconceived idea that nurses are the doctors slaves -- this is by far not the case. Nurses act very independently and have come to learn that the nurses are the ones who usually tell the doctors what is going on with their patients and what route to take to better their patient. Many nurses also choose nursing over medicine due their ideas concerning family and life. Nursing is obviously a family friendly lifestyle, while medicine is usually not (it can be though).

I am personally going back to pursue medicine after nursing because I NEED to know more about the human body and how it functions. Nurses are VERY knowledgeable concerning the human body and how it functions, but physicians are 10 times more knowledgeable, and it bothers me not to know how something functions. Furthermore, I would prefer to an expert in a certain area (a specialization), and even though nurses can "specialize", it is still pretty general. I think autonomy and idependence also comes into play.

You should really research both and decide. There is nothing wrong with pursuing nursing, and if you decide that you would rather pursue medicine, to go back and finish your pre-req's and apply to med schools.

Op: This poster makes perfect sense and is the necessary counterpoint to the majority of us.

sistermike: Trust me man, I have been clothed and fed and schooled by nurses my whole life. My perspective is simply that and I thought i made that clear by posting as a 1st person narative. I also live in a very competitive place with highly professionalized nursing population with alot of strong personalities, who i (and perhaps they) feel should have applied to medical school. Also the community college that i went too has alot of people who just want a secure job after the dot com fallout and both of their influence averted me to more challenging terrain. peace.

 

[ONYX4000GT]

Yes.. easy... that is definitely what I was trying to prove. As I posted before, it requires an amount of determination that most people are not willing to give. If people were willing to spend the required amount of time on their studies to achieve decent grades, then it really wouldn't be that difficult. Fortunate for me, there are 1000's of applicants who didn't have the drive and determination to study adequate amount of time in their undergrand to achieve a G.P.A. > 3.5. I am not saying it isn't "easy" or "hard". As I said before, the content part of undergrad and med school isn't hard persay ... it truly depends on the person and their drive and determination to try and understand the material. I don't think there are any classes that are "hard". As long as you are willing to put forth the time and effort in the class and outside of the class to read the material and to make sense of it, everything else should follow.

Ok. Its easy.

 

[spicedmanna]

That is fine. I will not argue that. As I mentioned, success is extremely subjective and we all see success as something different than the person next to us.

Preaching to the choir, sistermike. Preaching to the choir.

I tend to view success from "inside" rather than from "outside" measures.

 

[chimichanga]

I will NEVER settle for anything less than the best. Anyone can be a nurse, anyone can be a surgical technician, anyone can be a paramedic, yet not everyone can be a doctor. If you tell yourself: "I want to be a nurse." You KNOW you can be a nurse. If you tell yourself: "I want to be a doctor." Youll wonder if you can. Why live a life wondering if you couldve been a doctor? Why settle for anything less than a doctor? Some people strive to pursue the top, others settle for the median. For this reason, you have the people that succeeded in life, and the people that simply lived their life. Do what most people can not. It feels good when you get there.
-Former US Marine

Laughably arrogant post...


And NCF: You will certainly confuse salary w/ success...

 

[sistermike]

I started taking the nursing pre-reqs at my local CC and was thinking about NP or PA as an eventual goal. After a while I realized that I was acing the nursing pre-reqs without breaking a sweat while my classmates seemed focused on getting through the prereqs and earning that high nursing pay and were just complaining alot about how hard the work was, so I didn't relate to this either.

Op: This poster makes perfect sense and is the necessary counterpoint to the majority of us.

sistermike: Trust me man, I have been clothed and fed and schooled by nurses my whole life. My perspective is simply that and I thought i made that clear by posting as a 1st person narative. I also live in a very competitive place with highly professionalized nursing population with alot of strong personalities, who i (and perhaps they) feel should have applied to medical school. Also the community college that i went too has alot of people who just want a secure job after the dot com fallout and both of their influence averted me to more challenging terrain. peace.

Totally agreeable. I have come in contact with a signifcant amount of people who chose nursing as a career where they know they are promised a job anywhere they go and are able to care for their family.

 

[NCF145]

Laughably arrogant post...


And NCF: You will certainly confuse salary w/ success...

No, I don't believe that money makes anyone successful. The money can be a result of their success. Obviously anyone can be successful. A car dealer can be successful at selling cars. A doctor can be successful in his specialty. The list goes on. Everyone says that success is subjective, I believe this statement is true, but only to some extent.

 

[chimichanga]

Are doctors better than a factory worker? No. More successful? Yes.

Then tell me, what criterion of success supports this laughable statement?

 

[gotmeds?]

I will NEVER settle for anything less than the best. Anyone can be a nurse, anyone can be a surgical technician, anyone can be a paramedic, yet not everyone can be a doctor. If you tell yourself: "I want to be a nurse." You KNOW you can be a nurse. If you tell yourself: "I want to be a doctor." Youll wonder if you can. Why live a life wondering if you couldve been a doctor? Why settle for anything less than a doctor? Some people strive to pursue the top, others settle for the median. For this reason, you have the people that succeeded in life, and the people that simply lived their life. Do what most people can not. It feels good when you get there.
-Former US Marine

You know, I get what you're saying, but you're still full of it. First off, trust me on this, not everyone can be a paramedic. I've seen a lot of people try and fail. One of them was actually a foreign doctor. It's a little bit like saying that everyone can be a marine (which may actually be true ).

This is the wrong forum to extoll the virtues of nursing, of course, but I knew a nurse who was smarter and much better at diagnosing than most of the residents at the hospital she worked at. So I asked her why she went into nursing instead of med school. She told me very simply that she wanted to take care of patients. Doctors write the orders and get the credit, but nurses take care of patients.

Sure, some people settle for jobs when they could be doing something better. Other people actually want to be cops, firefighters, medics, and nurses, and not everyone could do those jobs. Hell, I know I couldn't be a pediatric oncology nurse no matter what. Assuming that everyone who didn't choose to pursue med school like you is inferior just makes you an arrogant prick.

 

[sistermike]

What do you consider success?

I agree with the individual who said success is within. I think success has everything to do with how you live your life. I think the majority of our world are successes. I think the homeless man down the street is a success. Success is found within ourselves -- if you live an unselfish, honest, good-intended life, you will be a success. So yes, a doctor can be successful but so can the 7-11 worker -- and be equally successful. That is just my view on success. But as I said, success is very subjective. I had this awesome anthropology teacher my freshman year in college.

He told us this very interesting story concerning success and different view points, and at the end he said this:

"My sister is a very wealthy banker and her husband is a very wealthy doctor. They have no kids, but they do have a huge house and a bentley. I am a college instructor with a master's degree. My wife is a home maker. We have 5 wonderful children who are all grown and all have kids themselves. We live in a modest size home and drive a Ford. Do I see myself as successful? Definitely. Do I see my sister and her husband as successful? Definitely. Does my sister see herself and her husband as successful? Definitely. Does my sister and her husband see me and my wife as successful. Not at all."

 

[ONYX4000GT]

oh boy.. another.. here goes...grrr

 

[sistermike]

You know, I get what you're saying, but you're still full of it. First off, trust me on this, not everyone can be a paramedic. I've seen a lot of people try and fail. One of them was actually a foreign doctor. It's a little bit like saying that everyone can be a marine (which may actually be true ).

This is the wrong forum to extoll the virtues of nursing, of course, but I knew a nurse who was smarter and much better at diagnosing than most of the residents at the hospital she worked at. So I asked her why she went into nursing instead of med school. She told me very simply that she wanted to take care of patients. Doctors write the orders and get the credit, but nurses take care of patients.

Sure, some people settle for jobs when they could be doing something better. Other people actually want to be cops, firefighters, medics, and nurses, and not everyone could do those jobs. Hell, I know I couldn't be a pediatric oncology nurse no matter what. Assuming that everyone who didn't choose to pursue med school like you is inferior just makes you an arrogant prick.

Amen.

 

[NCF145]

Then tell me, what criterion of success supports this laughable statement?

First off, the only reason that someone would be offended by a statement that says doctors are more successful that factory workers is that they are inferring the statement is implying that more success = better. Second, I would consider saving countless lives to be more successful than working in a factory. If that offends you, I'm sorry.

 

[chimichanga]

I will NEVER settle for anything less than the best. Anyone can be a nurse, anyone can be a surgical technician, anyone can be a paramedic, yet not everyone can be a doctor...

This diseased line of thinking is what affects many physicians worldwide...It is a sad reflection of one's perceived superiority over the "rest of us"

Yes, I'm glad we have trauma surgeons, cardiothoracics, neurosurgeons, etc. that give up their life to save others...We need dedicated clinicians like that to help us all live better lives. But when they view themselves as more successful (as defined only by career choice) than the rest of us, then they have no place in medicine...

 

[sistermike]

First off, the only reason that someone would be offended by a statement that says doctors are more successful that factory workers is that they are inferring the statement is implying that more success = better. Second, I would consider saving countless lives to be more successful than working in a factory. If that offends you, I'm sorry.

That is totally acceptable because I understand that you have a different perceived sense of success than I do. But then you must wonder, is that factory worker helping manufacture the tools you use to save the lives? Just to give you some food for thought.

 

[chimichanga]

... I would consider saving countless lives to be more successful than working in a factory. If that offends you, I'm sorry.

Wow...More supreme arrogance...

Too bad really...Let's hope the Lexus facory workers don't go on strike...Whatever will you drive then????

No apology necessary...You truly are sorry if you believe what you have written tonight...

 

[chimichanga]

Someone tried to defend a physician one time (for degrading a unit secretary), by stating "all the hours spent in residency, and all that studying takes a toll, and makes them hardened."

Now I see that pricks were born that way...

 

[NCF145]

Wow...More supreme arrogance...

Too bad really...Let's hope the Lexus facory workers don't go on strike...Whatever will you drive then????

No apology necessary...You truly are sorry if you believe what you have written tonight...

Agree to disagree.

 

[ONYX4000GT]

You know, I get what you're saying, but you're still full of it. First off, trust me on this, not everyone can be a paramedic. I've seen a lot of people try and fail. One of them was actually a foreign doctor. It's a little bit like saying that everyone can be a marine (which may actually be true ).

This is the wrong forum to extoll the virtues of nursing, of course, but I knew a nurse who was smarter and much better at diagnosing than most of the residents at the hospital she worked at. So I asked her why she went into nursing instead of med school. She told me very simply that she wanted to take care of patients. Doctors write the orders and get the credit, but nurses take care of patients.

Sure, some people settle for jobs when they could be doing something better. Other people actually want to be cops, firefighters, medics, and nurses, and not everyone could do those jobs. Hell, I know I couldn't be a pediatric oncology nurse no matter what. Assuming that everyone who didn't choose to pursue med school like you is inferior just makes you an arrogant prick.

Im gonna make this one short.
1)If I was typing to a bunch of highschool dropouts, then my statement: "...anyone can be a paramedic..." would most likey NOT hold true. I am not posting on a forum full of high-school dropouts.
2)Who "extolled" the nurses? Did I type something flagrant against them? As people, we are all the same. We are compassionate and willing to be the good of society. Being the best is merely having the best training and a doctor has this kind of training. He is at the "top" of the health professions. So, as you see, being the best has NOTHING to do with "docking" nurses. The doctors need the nurses and vice-versa. They simply chose to have the "best" training. (best training means more in depth)
3)Thanks for putting words into my mouth. Now, if you dont mind, I would like to finish with my own words. Its really nice to see how you made the world my enemy all of a sudden. Why bring the other professions into the post? I never mentioned them for the very specific reason that Im typing about the health professions here. Who is to say the firefighter isnt at the top of his field? Who is to say that the police officer (not cop) is not at the top of his field? Anyone who chooses to be the best in whichever field they decide is a noble person. I simply chose to be the "best" in the health services. It all depends on the person. The "top" for some may be the "middle" for others.
4)Not everyone can be a Marine.
5)Im going to sleep.

 

[Nasrudin]

OP:

Notice the uselessly polarized banter on this thread. This is precisely the nature of a working hospital. It is worth noting because depending on your position in the food chain you will subject to a certain proportion of the issues of others. While it may be true that success is determined internally, subjectively, others will seek to define you according to their interests. Perhaps for the saintly among us this is of no consequence--may god bless them. But for the rest of us an occupation suitable to one's leanings is important. Having lived most of my adult life at the poverty line and at the lowest level of labor, personally I find the notion of that as success as a load of crap! You will be too stressed and preoccupied with meeting your daily needs than to pursue other things. Maybe...one in a million homeless people are their by intention for learning specific things. Most hit the pipe, bottle, or needle so much they don't much care about their conditions, and the few down on their luck would hardly call it successful. Spiritual notions aside most would consider that comon sense...oh but i'm sorry we're talking about hospital staff.....let the argumentative nonsense reign.

 

[ONYX4000GT]

This diseased line of thinking is what affects many physicians worldwide...It is a sad reflection of one's perceived superiority over the "rest of us"

Yes, I'm glad we have trauma surgeons, cardiothoracics, neurosurgeons, etc. that give up their life to save others...We need dedicated clinicians like that to help us all live better lives. But when they view themselves as more successful (as defined only by career choice) than the rest of us, then they have no place in medicine...

Except as surgeons... you contradicted yourself buddy. Surgeons are good, surgeons are bad... which is it?

 

[chimichanga]

I stand corrected...If they view themselves as more successful (as defined by career choice), they have no place in humanity...

 

[sistermike]

I've come to realize that people who spit out pointless banter that proves no point... has no point. To those two individuals who are constantly trying to defend their arguments with banter and senseless posts -- just quit, go back and read what you initially wrote, and take it in. I've noticed that neither of you are responding to those arguments from other posters that prove valid points. Instead you try to defend your initial statements with un-thought provoking posts that prove no point, except that you are still what I initially thought you were.

 

[chimichanga]

I simply chose to be the "best" in the health services. It all depends on the person. The "top" for some may be the "middle" for others.
:

Let's say you become a GP...Don't think that some ER docs won't laugh at you...

Let's say you become a gen surgeon...Some neurosurgeons may look down on you...

Medicine is unfortunatley a caste system...

Sad

 

[ONYX4000GT]

I've come to realize that people who spit out pointless banter that proves no point... has no point. To those two individuals who are constantly trying to defend their arguments with banter and senseless posts -- just quit, go back and read what you initially wrote, and take it in. I've noticed that neither of you are responding to those arguments from other posters that prove valid points. Instead you try to defend your initial statements with un-thought provoking posts that prove no point, except that you are still what I initially thought you were.

Ok. Ill stop. I need to anyway. Its late.

 

[ONYX4000GT]

I stand corrected...If they view themselves as more successful (as defined by career choice), they have no place in humanity...

Except as surgeons.