NY Times article on DOs...

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PM&R bro. Harvard has a course that teaches its Pm&R residents OMM.

Good to know. Validates my point that we (DOs) aren't as "distinct" as we claim. The crux of my argument was that MDs use their palpation and percussion skills too.



DOs did this before it was cool. (say 20 years ago?). Everyone just stealin our shine 8D

Are you sure Osler wasn't basing his long ddx lists off of solid, all-encompassing H&Ps 120 years ago...

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Good to know. Validates my point that we (DOs) aren't as "distinct" as we claim. The crux of my argument was that MDs use their palpation and percussion skills too.





Are you sure Osler wasn't basing his long ddx lists off of solid, all-encompassing H&Ps 120 years ago...

OMM is more than palpation and percussion. And who cares about canadians really.
 
OMM is more than palpation and percussion. .
I know. Just for completeness, I added "MDs learn the same physical exam skills, minus OMM even though..." But, the CRUX of my argument was that percussion and palpation is NOT unique to the physical exam of DOs as the article leads the reader to believe. Remember we are talking about the article here.

And yes, Damn Canadians.
 
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I know. Just for completeness, I added "MDs learn the same physical exam skills, minus OMM even though..." But, the CRUX of my argument was that percussion and palpation is NOT unique to the physical exam of DOs as the article leads the reader to believe. Remember we are talking about the article here.

And yes, Damn Canadians.
Ah I didn't know we were referring to the article. No one is arguing that MDs don't learn that stuff. Perhaps they're referring to how DOs palpate for somatic dysfunctions? I don't think MDs do that and we do that for 2 hours a week lol.
 
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This is sidetracking from the NYT article, which I thought was great, but I hope the intended journal isn't JAOA.

If OMM is going to ever gain credibility through research, step 1 is to not publish in a journal that has an impact factor of 0.00 and is considered by zero scientists/physicians. A featured research study by the AOA recently was a JAOA publication on somatic dysfunction where the patient group was medical students from the publishing institution. It's such a profound embarrassment.
good gawd
 
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This is sidetracking from the NYT article, which I thought was great, but I hope the intended journal isn't JAOA.

If OMM is going to ever gain credibility through research, step 1 is to not publish in a journal that has an impact factor of 0.00 and is considered by zero scientists/physicians. A featured research study by the AOA recently was a JAOA publication on somatic dysfunction where the patient group was medical students from the publishing institution. It's such a profound embarrassment.
Haha. Were the students even sick?
 
Residency placement rate (high 90's) > Residency match rate (high 70's)

We were recently told in class that those numbers you just quoted are similar to MD statistics as well. Not sure if it's true, that's just what we were told.
 
We were recently told in class that those numbers you just quoted are similar to MD statistics as well. Not sure if it's true, that's just what we were told.
According to the NRMP report, the match rate of USMD grads is in the low 90's and the residency placement rate is in the high 90's. USMD's and DO's have a very similar residency placement rate, but USMD's have a higher match rate.
 
excuse me for being nub, but what is the difference between residency placement vs. residency match rate?
 
Overall, it's positive press, in a major preeminent national/international newspaper. The AOA couldn't have gotten better press even if they tried. While there are small quirks/issues (match numbers, using the term osteopaths), overall it didn't focus too much on the differences (whether you believe in those differences or not) of osteopathic medicine, but emphasized that DOs are doctors, and more importantly we're stepping up to the plate to address a physician shortage (as well as the distribution issues of medical schools). If you talk to non-medical people, even highly educated people, there is a common belief that the physician shortage is due to the AMA (they don't really care about MD vs DO) so having a major newspaper publish something stating that DOs are doctors and are addressing the primary care shortage is a good thing.
 
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This sounds like you're implying that the only way MD schools get those high stats is that they "cherry-pick" those high GPA/MCATs while neglecting to select on other things like clinical experience, excellent ECs, etc. Which is far from the truth.

That's the difference. MD schools start w/ a pool that has much higher stats to begin with, then selects based on a lot of the same ECs. We (DO students/physiscians) always make derogatory claims that MDs are less caring or compassionate or less-well-rounded mediclones. This is not true. My undergrad had a large premed club and I have a lot of friends from there that went the MD route and they weren't heartless book-reading machines. They were just like you and I, except they were EXCEPTIONALLY brilliant.

I dont know how to bold through my phone but the part where you claim we make derogatory statements about MDs is strange. Who exactly are you talking about? Myself and DO colleagues get along perfectly well with our MD colleagues and no one really claims that. At least nobody I know or work with.
 
excuse me for being nub, but what is the difference between residency placement vs. residency match rate?

The residency match rate indicates what percentage of students were successful in obtaining a residency through the Match. The residency placement rate includes those students who match plus all the other students who found a residency outside of the Match.
 
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Overall, it's positive press, in a major preeminent national/international newspaper. The AOA couldn't have gotten better press even if they tried. While there are small quirks/issues (match numbers, using the term osteopaths), overall it didn't focus too much on the differences (whether you believe in those differences or not) of osteopathic medicine, but emphasized that DOs are doctors, and more importantly we're stepping up to the plate to address a physician shortage (as well as the distribution issues of medical schools). If you talk to non-medical people, even highly educated people, there is a common belief that the physician shortage is due to the AMA (they don't really care about MD vs DO) so having a major newspaper publish something stating that DOs are doctors and are addressing the primary care shortage is a good thing.

^ This. As far as the comments section goes, the NYT could publish an article on how to boil an egg tomorrow, and you'd still see people crawling out of the woodwork to spout ignorant comments and stir the pot. It's like that for almost every article nowadays.
 
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I really shouldn't have read the comments:
"
The solution to the Primary Care Shortage is this: Instead of creating these second rate D.O. "doctors," the focus should be on educating more Nurse Practitioners and Physician Assistants to work as physician extenders of those with M.D. degrees"

LOLWUT

This blew my mind... Just not sure if it blew my mind...
post-28553-Steve-Jobs-mind-blown-gif-HD-T-pVbd.gif



Or made my mind *explode*.
20120914120348!Exploding-head.gif
 
Overall, it's positive press, in a major preeminent national/international newspaper. The AOA couldn't have gotten better press even if they tried. While there are small quirks/issues (match numbers, using the term osteopaths), overall it didn't focus too much on the differences (whether you believe in those differences or not) of osteopathic medicine, but emphasized that DOs are doctors, and more importantly we're stepping up to the plate to address a physician shortage (as well as the distribution issues of medical schools). If you talk to non-medical people, even highly educated people, there is a common belief that the physician shortage is due to the AMA (they don't really care about MD vs DO) so having a major newspaper publish something stating that DOs are doctors and are addressing the primary care shortage is a good thing.

I agree. They got some numbers and details wrong, but the article did convince a few relatives I'm really going to school to be "a real doctor" so that counts for something.
 
I had some doubts about how my experience would be at DO schools, namely because as a premed I lingered on SDN very often.

After starting DO school, I have been so challenged in my curriculum my mind is overwhelmed. I am gonna be very proud of myself when I graduate because I am definitely not getting a "second rate" education as some newspaper trolls keep saying. I have seen how my upperclassmen perform on boards.

Even though I know I won't be using OMM, it's forcing me to reinforce real-life anatomy beyond cadavers and especially reinforce palpation skills outside of my diagnosis class.

I rarely even use SDN now, allowing me to see things outside the "SDN bubble" because my school keeps me too busy to care about what ignorant people and their followers have to say. I am confident that I will be a competent physician and never be without a job.

I even stopped caring about neurotically looking up nitpicky localized residency programs that don't take DOs, because if it's not about DOs, it's about being from low-tier MDs and if it's not about being low-tier MD it's because I'm not Ivy-league. Plenty of good programs will get me somewhere.

I rather go to a mid-tier program with people who truly care about teaching than risk my competency because I'm only following big name programs. There's plenty of people who have complained about some big name programs with snobby attendings who aren't too keen at teaching. Competency will get you farther in life than being a brute with a shallow residency frame to hang up in the office.

MD school? Sure it's more marketable, but my doubts about going to DO school have diminished. What you do with what's given to you is what will make all the difference. We are entering a different age.
 
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You really have to hand it to the AOA. The osteopathic profession has become the Apple Computer of medicine. “Think Different.” For all the talking back and forth here on SDN, the comments section of this article really brings into focus exactly what everyone has known for a long time: Not only are patients familiar with DOs, but there is also a minority of the population that has bought-hook, line, and sinker-the argument of osteopathic “distinctiveness.”

If osteopathic medicine stays the course, I think the profession will continue to see good press and greater public recognition. I think the profession needs to come to terms with where to draw the line on the “distinctive” argument. On one hand, it is true that there is a sizeable population of patients who see DOs as an alternative, however misinformed, to regular allopathic medicine. At the same time, the comments also reveal a sizeable portion (although clear minority) of MDs who feel threatened by DOs. The writing is on the wall for these people: medicine is under assault from mid-level practitioners and now, due largely to nothing within their own control, DOs are seen as a “holistic” version of the MD. What’s even better is that most of the population doesn’t even associate DOs with manipulation. Instead, they talk about completely intangible and immeasurable feelings of “niceness” and better beside manners. From a purely public relations standpoint it confers a lot of the advantages of nursing without needing to be a nurse.

I think there is goodwill in the public toward osteopathic medicine. It’s up to the osteopathic profession to use it wisely.

Idk. You seem to be suffering from a distortion of perception based on the proximity to your DO faculty and their concerns and marketing agenda.

DO's blend in with MD's and MBBS's or whatever it's called in practice. We all look the same and perform the same functions. What's more hollistic about my DO Anesthesiologist. And so on.

If it opens up avenues of niche marketing great. I haven't seen it personally, but good if it's a factor. Apple computer of medicine....hmmm...more like two different brands of computer paper. Nobody notices.
 
Idk. You seem to be suffering from a distortion of perception based on the proximity to your DO faculty and their concerns and marketing agenda.

DO's blend in with MD's and MBBS's or whatever it's called in practice. We all look the same and perform the same functions. What's more hollistic about my DO Anesthesiologist. And so on.

If it opens up avenues of niche marketing great. I haven't seen it personally, but good if it's a factor. Apple computer of medicine....hmmm...more like two different brands of computer paper. Nobody notices.

Hey man, I notice...

...Hammermill card stock >> Xerox.
 
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Idk. You seem to be suffering from a distortion of perception based on the proximity to your DO faculty and their concerns and marketing agenda.

DO's blend in with MD's and MBBS's or whatever it's called in practice. We all look the same and perform the same functions. What's more hollistic about my DO Anesthesiologist. And so on.

If it opens up avenues of niche marketing great. I haven't seen it personally, but good if it's a factor. Apple computer of medicine....hmmm...more like two different brands of computer paper. Nobody notices.
Saying "nobody notices" is incorrect.
 
I really shouldn't have read the comments:
"
The solution to the Primary Care Shortage is this: Instead of creating these second rate D.O. "doctors," the focus should be on educating more Nurse Practitioners and Physician Assistants to work as physician extenders of those with M.D. degrees"

LOLWUT

Whoever wrote that comment is a/<"(^@%#!
 
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