OB case

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I have a unique case for you guys too:

28yo otherwise healthy avid runner with sudden onset of R-posterior leg pain. He is a full paleo barefoot runner.

On exam, he has severe R-posterior leg pain with some swelling and mild bulge just inferior to the gluts. Ultrasound exam shows normal neurovascular structures and no osseous abnormalities. Instead, it finds he had a spontaneously ruptured R-hamstring muscle with a free-fluid collection in the capsule of the muscle.

On my evaluation, he is utterly dismayed and appears defeated. He relays "I am scheduled to run my first marathon tomorrow. I was told that sitting this one out is my only option here, so I guess that's the way it's gotta be."

He really wanted to experience the visceral pain of running the marathon, but the somatic pain from the ruptured muscle was just unbearable.

So what did we do? (what would you do)



He had stable vitals. He clearly had nothing wrong internally and his symptoms strongly pointed to MSK source in our discussion with the Ortho team (chiropractic consulted Ortho for the workup of the leg pain).

We decided to place a R-sided subgluteal sciatic catheter. Placement was challenging because the lean runner's legs stretched the planes so tightly it was hard to identify and place a needle into it. Nevertheless we were successful after some struggling. We bolused it 25 mL 0.2% ropivacaine and his posterior pain entirely resolved. The catheter was not hooked to an infusion because it would be too difficult to run while carrying an On-Q pump. He hobbled down the course for 48 hours and the catheter allowed us to repeat boluses which we did every 4 hours by intercepting him in a chase car.

We considered whether or not anesthetizing the nerve would exacerbate the ruptured muscle. In all reality it was likely therapeutic by preventing that muscle from contracting on itself when it's injured. I discussed with him that there's a slightly possibility his stride could be weaker with the sciatic catheter in place and he may unable to run with the foot drop, but we really didn't know HOW or even IF it would affect his ability to complete the race.

After hobbling for 48 hours (again, unclear if that was a consequence of the sciatic catheter) the pain and exhaustion grew excruciating and he was progressing slowly. He then requested a wheelchair on his own and shortly thereafter was deemed unable to complete the race. We took him to the finish line in the chase car and left the catheter in place so we could use it post-race if he needed it.

Post-race course, interestingly, was benign. After he stopped trying to run, the tension on the muscle was relieved and his pain went from severe to tolerable.

He and his wife told us later that the turning point of their experience was the placement of the sciatic catheter because they felt like they were heard, respected, and empowered. He decided on his own for the ride to the finish line and was happy that we tried to find an alternative strategy before jumping right to it. He didn't use shoes :)

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I have a unique case for you guys too:

28yo otherwise healthy avid runner with sudden onset of R-posterior leg pain. He is a full paleo barefoot runner.

On exam, he has severe R-posterior leg pain with some swelling and mild bulge just inferior to the gluts. Ultrasound exam shows normal neurovascular structures and no osseous abnormalities. Instead, it finds he had a spontaneously ruptured R-hamstring muscle with a free-fluid collection in the capsule of the muscle.

On my evaluation, he is utterly dismayed and appears defeated. He relays "I am scheduled to run my first marathon tomorrow. I was told that sitting this one out is my only option here, so I guess that's the way it's gotta be."

He really wanted to experience the visceral pain of running the marathon, but the somatic pain from the ruptured muscle was just unbearable.

So what did we do? (what would you do)



He had stable vitals. He clearly had nothing wrong internally and his symptoms strongly pointed to MSK source in our discussion with the Ortho team (chiropractic consulted Ortho for the workup of the leg pain).

We decided to place a R-sided subgluteal sciatic catheter. Placement was challenging because the lean runner's legs stretched the planes so tightly it was hard to identify and place a needle into it. Nevertheless we were successful after some struggling. We bolused it 25 mL 0.2% ropivacaine and his posterior pain entirely resolved. The catheter was not hooked to an infusion because it would be too difficult to run while carrying an On-Q pump. He hobbled down the course for 48 hours and the catheter allowed us to repeat boluses which we did every 4 hours by intercepting him in a chase car.

We considered whether or not anesthetizing the nerve would exacerbate the ruptured muscle. In all reality it was likely therapeutic by preventing that muscle from contracting on itself when it's injured. I discussed with him that there's a slightly possibility his stride could be weaker with the sciatic catheter in place and he may unable to run with the foot drop, but we really didn't know HOW or even IF it would affect his ability to complete the race.

After hobbling for 48 hours (again, unclear if that was a consequence of the sciatic catheter) the pain and exhaustion grew excruciating and he was progressing slowly. He then requested a wheelchair on his own and shortly thereafter was deemed unable to complete the race. We took him to the finish line in the chase car and left the catheter in place so we could use it post-race if he needed it.

Post-race course, interestingly, was benign. After he stopped trying to run, the tension on the muscle was relieved and his pain went from severe to tolerable.

He and his wife told us later that the turning point of their experience was the placement of the sciatic catheter because they felt like they were heard, respected, and empowered. He decided on his own for the ride to the finish line and was happy that we tried to find an alternative strategy before jumping right to it. He didn't use shoes :)
How much was his bill? :)
 
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I have a unique case for you guys too:

28yo otherwise healthy avid runner with sudden onset of R-posterior leg pain. He is a full paleo barefoot runner.

On exam, he has severe R-posterior leg pain with some swelling and mild bulge just inferior to the gluts. Ultrasound exam shows normal neurovascular structures and no osseous abnormalities. Instead, it finds he had a spontaneously ruptured R-hamstring muscle with a free-fluid collection in the capsule of the muscle.

On my evaluation, he is utterly dismayed and appears defeated. He relays "I am scheduled to run my first marathon tomorrow. I was told that sitting this one out is my only option here, so I guess that's the way it's gotta be."

He really wanted to experience the visceral pain of running the marathon, but the somatic pain from the ruptured muscle was just unbearable.

So what did we do? (what would you do)



He had stable vitals. He clearly had nothing wrong internally and his symptoms strongly pointed to MSK source in our discussion with the Ortho team (chiropractic consulted Ortho for the workup of the leg pain).

We decided to place a R-sided subgluteal sciatic catheter. Placement was challenging because the lean runner's legs stretched the planes so tightly it was hard to identify and place a needle into it. Nevertheless we were successful after some struggling. We bolused it 25 mL 0.2% ropivacaine and his posterior pain entirely resolved. The catheter was not hooked to an infusion because it would be too difficult to run while carrying an On-Q pump. He hobbled down the course for 48 hours and the catheter allowed us to repeat boluses which we did every 4 hours by intercepting him in a chase car.

We considered whether or not anesthetizing the nerve would exacerbate the ruptured muscle. In all reality it was likely therapeutic by preventing that muscle from contracting on itself when it's injured. I discussed with him that there's a slightly possibility his stride could be weaker with the sciatic catheter in place and he may unable to run with the foot drop, but we really didn't know HOW or even IF it would affect his ability to complete the race.

After hobbling for 48 hours (again, unclear if that was a consequence of the sciatic catheter) the pain and exhaustion grew excruciating and he was progressing slowly. He then requested a wheelchair on his own and shortly thereafter was deemed unable to complete the race. We took him to the finish line in the chase car and left the catheter in place so we could use it post-race if he needed it.

Post-race course, interestingly, was benign. After he stopped trying to run, the tension on the muscle was relieved and his pain went from severe to tolerable.

He and his wife told us later that the turning point of their experience was the placement of the sciatic catheter because they felt like they were heard, respected, and empowered. He decided on his own for the ride to the finish line and was happy that we tried to find an alternative strategy before jumping right to it. He didn't use shoes :)
This is just fantastic!!! :clap:
 
I have a unique case for you guys too:

28yo otherwise healthy avid runner with sudden onset of R-posterior leg pain. He is a full paleo barefoot runner.

On exam, he has severe R-posterior leg pain with some swelling and mild bulge just inferior to the gluts. Ultrasound exam shows normal neurovascular structures and no osseous abnormalities. Instead, it finds he had a spontaneously ruptured R-hamstring muscle with a free-fluid collection in the capsule of the muscle.

On my evaluation, he is utterly dismayed and appears defeated. He relays "I am scheduled to run my first marathon tomorrow. I was told that sitting this one out is my only option here, so I guess that's the way it's gotta be."

He really wanted to experience the visceral pain of running the marathon, but the somatic pain from the ruptured muscle was just unbearable.

So what did we do? (what would you do)



He had stable vitals. He clearly had nothing wrong internally and his symptoms strongly pointed to MSK source in our discussion with the Ortho team (chiropractic consulted Ortho for the workup of the leg pain).

We decided to place a R-sided subgluteal sciatic catheter. Placement was challenging because the lean runner's legs stretched the planes so tightly it was hard to identify and place a needle into it. Nevertheless we were successful after some struggling. We bolused it 25 mL 0.2% ropivacaine and his posterior pain entirely resolved. The catheter was not hooked to an infusion because it would be too difficult to run while carrying an On-Q pump. He hobbled down the course for 48 hours and the catheter allowed us to repeat boluses which we did every 4 hours by intercepting him in a chase car.

We considered whether or not anesthetizing the nerve would exacerbate the ruptured muscle. In all reality it was likely therapeutic by preventing that muscle from contracting on itself when it's injured. I discussed with him that there's a slightly possibility his stride could be weaker with the sciatic catheter in place and he may unable to run with the foot drop, but we really didn't know HOW or even IF it would affect his ability to complete the race.

After hobbling for 48 hours (again, unclear if that was a consequence of the sciatic catheter) the pain and exhaustion grew excruciating and he was progressing slowly. He then requested a wheelchair on his own and shortly thereafter was deemed unable to complete the race. We took him to the finish line in the chase car and left the catheter in place so we could use it post-race if he needed it.

Post-race course, interestingly, was benign. After he stopped trying to run, the tension on the muscle was relieved and his pain went from severe to tolerable.

He and his wife told us later that the turning point of their experience was the placement of the sciatic catheter because they felt like they were heard, respected, and empowered. He decided on his own for the ride to the finish line and was happy that we tried to find an alternative strategy before jumping right to it. He didn't use shoes :)

Did you consult with his spiritual advisor prior to initiating your plan?
 
I'd say the chap was a fanatic, but for someone to run like that without shoes yet take advantage of 21st century medicine to do it seems...inauthentic?

Still...he's a better man than I.
 
I'd say the chap was a fanatic, but for someone to run like that without shoes yet take advantage of 21st century medicine to do it seems...inauthentic?

Still...he's a better man than I.
You understand that it was a joke, right?

A damn good one too.
 
It was funny, and well played. :)

Still, I can't help but think of pro athletes who get injections (blocks) before and during games because they value their ability to perform and get paid despite the risks.

Maybe if this crazy kook of a barefoot runner had a $4 million sponsorship deal riding on him completing that race? I wouldn't do it, but also wouldn't fault someone who did.
 
It was funny, and well played. :)

Still, I can't help but think of pro athletes who get injections (blocks) before and during games because they value their ability to perform and get paid despite the risks.

Maybe if this crazy kook of a barefoot runner had a $4 million sponsorship deal riding on him completing that race? I wouldn't do it, but also wouldn't fault someone who did.
If you think it's ok... why wouldn't you do it???
 
I don't use cocaine, but I think anyone who wants to should be able to.

There are lots of things beyond my personal desire or risk tolerance, that I'm happy to see other people do.
 
I don't use cocaine, but I think anyone who wants to should be able to.

There are lots of things beyond my personal desire or risk tolerance, that I'm happy to see other people do.
Interesting analogy!
So... you think that the management of this case was as hazardous as doing cocaine, but since it made the OP happy you don't condemn it?
I bet you many people here would disagree with you on this so "liberal" approach, especially when it has to do with something so unchristian as Cocaine!
 
Interesting analogy!
So... you think that the management of this case was as hazardous as doing cocaine, but since it made the OP happy you don't condemn it?
I bet you many people here would disagree with you on this so "liberal" approach, especially when it has to do with something so unchristian as Cocaine!

I think you're mixing up Blade and PGG.

Blade is the right wing evangelical whacko.

PGG is the gun toting libertarian.
 
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So... you think that the management of this case was as hazardous as doing cocaine, but since it made the OP happy you don't condemn it?

I don't think cocaine is particularly hazardous. There's room for safe recreational use. Obviously those with CAD ought not to. The primary risk is an artificial legal one.

I bet you many people here would disagree with you on this so "liberal" approach, especially when it has to do with something so unchristian as Cocaine!

Erm ...

PGG is the gun toting libertarian.

More or less. :)
 
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Interesting and creative solution. Not what I would have done because we would have sectioned her and also, because I've found these sorts of scenarios are also best solved with proper counseling.

I think the posters above are being somewhat dramatic (are the risks of you stabbing the baby with a needle really that much higher than, say, causing permanent nerve injury with an epidural?), but I agree that I don't want to introduce potential risks of a second block, especially when there is such a high probability of neuraxial to begin with. I would also not be excited about placing a catheter with continuous medication for many the reasons stated above. Probably most especially that I wouldn't want to be giving LA by two different routes.

If I find myself called in to "answer some questions" in a birth plan patient room, it's usually because they've already made their decision and they just want reassurance that they're doing the right thing. I don't treat them like they're crazy. I provide them some TLC, answer their questions, discuss the actual risks with of an epidural and confirm that this is their decision, and whatever they decide we will get behind (unless I have other concerns, in which case I will emphatically state them). This is a service that I provide, because I'm not a jerk who expects patients to have the same level of understanding, education and training that I have.
 
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What if they are really crazy???

Ketamine

Actually, in all seriousness, has anyone ever put a laboring patient on a low dose ketamine infusion? Ketamine infusions are the new hotness around these parts. It's easier and more convenient to setup than nitrous. I suppose the concern is the potential to miss out on the whole "miracle of birth" thing from the dissociative state if you dose it too high.

A quick google search found this in the world renowned Saudi Journal of Anesthesia: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3950455/
 
At the risk of stirring the pot more here... I just found this case report published in RAPM last year:

Unilateral Transversus Abdominis Plane Block Catheter for the Treatment of Abdominal Wall Pain in Pregnancy: A Case Report.
Pubmed ID: 26398168

If you have access to the article it's worth a read.
 
What is she really saying?? This is like a jehovas witness inevitably accepting a blood tansfusion. Shes saying, "I want you to tell me I absolutely need the epidural and that its not my fault and I did everything I could not to have one but I NEED one" I applaud your attitude of respecting patients autonomy. But i think you just misread this situation. She has already made the decision in her mind, she just wants you to reaffirm that an epidural is OK and safe and that SHE has special / unique need for one unlike the regular "wimps" who cant tolerate labor, SHE has a medical need for one so its different. This is because I KNOW epidural analgesia is whats right for her and if this is what I have to tell her to get that to happen then thats what I do. I dont want to waste time skirting the issue and increasing risk with other procedures that SHE feels obligated to get to continue to avoid the evil epidural.
This.
 
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