Obama State of the Union Address...

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someone told me he's giving $3k a month for babysitting credit? Is that right?
 
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How does Obama have the energy to keep this BS up? I can understand to get elected you say this kind of crap but still a partisan warrior after 6 years? He's like one of the many talk show commentators who only sees one side of everything and never shuts his pie hole.
 
hyperalgesia said:
He's like one of the many talk show commentators who only sees one side of everything and never shuts his pie hole.
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you mean like everybody on this board?

please.

you dont like obamacare: i get it. but if you cant see past that one issue to how great a president he has been outside of the ACA, then you are just as big of a partisan hack
 
This is an opinion piece in the WSJ, which may as well be FoxNews at this point. Have you seen a discussion of this issue from a more politically neutral sourc
drusso said:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/brian-r...m-should-go-right-down-main-street-1421712405

Obama's tax "reform" will continue to increase the tax disparity between C-corps (most hospitals and large physician employers) and S-corps (most independently owned physician groups). When higher payroll taxes, surtaxes, state and local taxes are accounted for S-corp owners are paying well over 50% to the government.
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This is an opinion piece in the WSJ, which may as well be FoxNews at this point, as both are owned by Murdoch. Hardly a credible source of balanced reporting.

Have you seen a discussion of this issue from a more politically neutral source?
 
SSdoc33 said:
you mean like everybody on this board?

please.

you dont like obamacare: i get it. but if you cant see past that one issue to how great a president he has been outside of the ACA, then you are just as big of a partisan hack
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The ACA isn't a small issue. It forever changes the whole of American society for the worse. It adversely affects EVERYONE. It's pretty hard to look past. But even if we were, there are little accomplishments to mention. Oh yeah, Obama happened to be in power when the search that began under GWB finally tracked down OBL and Obama made the call that any president would. Bravo. Great. Too bad the next Bin Laden has been born under his watch with even more alarming consequences.
 
powermd said:
This is an opinion piece in the WSJ, which may as well be FoxNews at this point. Have you seen a discussion of this issue from a more politically neutral sourc


This is an opinion piece in the WSJ, which may as well be FoxNews at this point, as both are owned by Murdoch. Hardly a credible source of balanced reporting.

Have you seen a discussion of this issue from a more politically neutral source?
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Yeah: My CPA. Specifically he says that if the Dems execute this idea it will be directly to my financial detriment...and he's no slouch...former managing partner with large accounting house and tax law expert...he really knows his knows stuff and I trust him.

Also: Here.

http://s-corp.org/

Who is your expert on the topic?
 
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pmrmd said:
The ACA isn't a small issue. It forever changes the whole of American society for the worse. It adversely affects EVERYONE. It's pretty hard to look past. But even if we were, there are little accomplishments to mention. Oh yeah, Obama happened to be in power when the search that began under GWB finally tracked down OBL and Obama made the call that any president would. Bravo. Great. Too bad the next Bin Laden has been born under his watch with even more alarming consequences.
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im pretty sure it is not adversely affecting those who now have health insurance.
 
except that those who now have health insurance don't have adequate coverage and still can't afford their care
 
pmrmd said:
Having health insurance with a $7.5k deductible and $60 copay does not translate to getting healthcare.
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What Are The Silver Plan’s Out-of-Pocket Costs?
Based on an average person’s expected use of healthcare services, Silver Plans have the insurance company pay 70% of covered healthcare expenses. The remaining 30% of expenses are paid out-of-pocket by the policyholder. These out-of-pocket expenses include deductibles, copayments, and coinsurance. However, the plan’s monthly premium is not included as one of these out-of-pocket costs.

Below are the average out-of-pocket cost-sharing expenses for medical services and prescription drugs found across silver plans for 2015.

Cost-Sharing Category Average for a Silver Plan
Deductible for an individual enrollee $2,927
Deductible for a family $6,010
Doctor Visit $29
Specialist visit $57
Generic drugs $13 (2014 data)
Preferred brand drugs $47 (2014 data)
Non-preferred brand drugs $89 (2014 data)
Specialty drugs 31% of specialty drug expense charged to patient as coinsurance fee (coinsurance fees used for specialty drugs in 62% of 2014 plans studied)
Annual cap on out-of-pocket costs for an individual $5,775
Annual cap on out-of-pocket costs for a family $11,555
The table below illustrates how out-of-pocket costs can differ among three insurance companies that offer a Silver Plan.
 
^^^Good. Now find a doctor on the plan that you can see. Tell me about non-exchange plans that people actually use to see their doctor. The results aren't as rosy, if you call a 12k annual family cap rosy.
 
pmrmd said:
^^^Good. Now find a doctor on the plan that you can see. Tell me about non-exchange plans that people actually use to see their doctor. The results aren't as rosy, if you call a 12k annual family cap rosy.
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Happens all over NM, can't speak for Arizona
 
they wont be able to see a PP pain doc. ok. point taken.

they will be able to find some crappy doc or NP that can check their BP and manage their diabetes. if you get out of your sub-specialist's bubble and see the bigger picture, you might see that the ACA isnt all bad. of course, its not as good as single payer, but thats another story.

to sum up: obamacare bad for us but good for the country.
 
drusso said:
Yeah: My CPA. Specifically he says that if the Dems execute this idea it will be directly to my financial detriment...and he's no slouch...former managing partner with large accounting house and tax law expert...he really knows his knows stuff and I trust him.

Also: Here.

http://s-corp.org/

Who is your expert on the topic?
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Being that this was just released last week, and I don't have a CPA, no one.

Taxfoundation.org seems fairly reliable as a non-partisan source of information.

http://taxfoundation.org/blog/basics-president-obamas-state-union-tax-plan

I would expect a lobbying organization such as that which you linked to above to take an alarmist posture.

The reality is that Congress is unlikely to approve any of his changes. Can he do this by executive order?

I wholeheartedly agree with soaking the $10M+ annual income class and those with hundreds of millions and billions in assets, particularly if that money can be flushed back into circulation via the middle class. But these guys don't go down without a big, big fight. I'm disappointed to read he's planning on nickle and diming the "comfortable" class (us).

Forget about any of the "credits" applying to doctors. We make too much money to qualify.
 
He wants to get rid of 529s as those currently using are "most able to pay for college". 70% are used by families making <150K

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." Sound familiar?
 
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When is the nightmare over?
 
He's a f'ing idiot. The republicans are all f'ing idiots. You all are f'ing idiots and so am I.

But these things I know. He was up there as the campaigner in chief. Nothing he said will be accomplished and he knows it. The debt will rise and the obamacare cancer will continue to metastasize.
 
SSdoc33 said:
im pretty sure it is not adversely affecting those who now have health insurance.
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You mean relatively young, healthy people who were forced to pay 3-4k a year for catastrophic plans, and rarely ever see the doctor? Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's adversely affecting them.
 
Yo GabbaPentin said:
He's a f'ing idiot. The republicans are all f'ing idiots. You all are f'ing idiots and so am I.

But these things I know. He was up there as the campaigner in chief. Nothing he said will be accomplished and he knows it. The debt will rise and the obamacare cancer will continue to metastasize.
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I don't know... I think Bernanke is not an idiot. He's figured it out that all you have to do is print money for the economy to be good...
 
SSdoc33 said:
to sum up: obamacare bad for us but good for the country.
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I disagree with this. Obamacare permanently grafted for-profit insurance companies into our legal system. And it was born and forced upon America only by democrats. So democrats completely own the comically incompetant rollout and the ongoing insult of for-profit insurance industry raping both patients and doctors and everyone in between. Insurance was raping people before but now we are born to be raped. That's our purpose.
 
powermd said:
I wholeheartedly agree with soaking the $10M+ annual income class and those with hundreds of millions and billions in assets
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Hurting someone else will not help you or help the poor/middle class. Credibility is lost when one complains about "income inequality" because it shows that there is some virtue is ONLY bringing someone else down. It's disgraceful and unAmerican.

It's much better to say the problem is a lack of job opportunies for the poor and middle class.
 
hyperalgesia said:
Hurting someone else will not help you or help the poor/middle class. Credibility is lost when one complains about "income inequality" because it shows that there is some virtue is ONLY bringing someone else down. It's disgraceful and unAmerican.

It's much better to say the problem is a lack of job opportunies for the poor and middle class.
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What's disgraceful and "unAmerican" is our tax code for the past 30 years that has grossly favored those whose income is based primarily on capital gains and dividends over those who actually work for a living. This, in addition to corporate welfare in all it's forms, (and let's not forget QE), has led to extraordinary inequality and certainly constitutes "hurting someone". It's wounded our nation to the core and has made us much weaker than we could otherwise be.

You moralize as if the playing field has always been and continues to be absolutely even between the rich and the poor. The fact is the rich have always found ways to tilt the scale in their favor, and they still do. I'm no expert on history, but everything I read indicates this kind of inequality leads to violent revolution and the death of empires.
 
hyperalgesia said:
I disagree with this. Obamacare permanently grafted for-profit insurance companies into our legal system. And it was born and forced upon America only by democrats. So democrats completely own the comically incompetant rollout and the ongoing insult of for-profit insurance industry raping both patients and doctors and everyone in between. Insurance was raping people before but now we are born to be raped. That's our purpose.
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Eh, I don't know how many insurance companies are actually going to exist in the next decade or so. Many of the large systems are hitting critical mass in terms of size and are rolling out their own insurance plans - a la Kaiser Permanente. There's a great article about this in Time. The pundits have been predicting this for the past half decade, and it's finally starting to materialize. Not that it changes anything, because then the raping is simply done by the hospital conglomerates as opposed to insurance companies.
 
nvrsumr said:
He wants to get rid of 529s as those currently using are "most able to pay for college". 70% are used by families making <150K

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." Sound familiar?
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This is what we face:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2015/01/20/obama_wants_to_tax_529_savings_it_s_a_great_idea.html

1) Taxing of 529 college plans
2) Increased taxes for S-Corps
3) Strong-armed government tactics against independent physicians/physician groups.
 
powermd said:
What's disgraceful and "unAmerican" is our tax code for the past 30 years that has grossly favored those whose income is based primarily on capital gains and dividends over those who actually work for a living. This, in addition to corporate welfare in all it's forms, (and let's not forget QE), has led to extraordinary inequality and certainly constitutes "hurting someone". It's wounded our nation to the core and has made us much weaker than we could otherwise be.
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How has inequality itself hurt someone and wounded our nation? No one has ever been equal in the US or elsewhere. It doesn't hurt anyone that Bill Gates has 80 billion dollars. I would much rather he has it than the Federal govt.
 
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hyperalgesia said:
How has inequality itself hurt someone and wounded our nation? No one has ever been equal in the US or elsewhere. It doesn't hurt anyone that Bill Gates has 80 billion dollars. I would much rather he has it than the Federal govt.
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Do you not see how the power in this country over things that really matter is concentrated among the very few who have the funds and the will to sway policy and elections? If you don't see that, there's not much more we have to talk about.
 
How has inequality itself hurt someone and wounded our nation?
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not to point out the obvious, but percieved inequality and abuse of power are the main reasons for Ferguson protests...

also, https://www.globalcreditportal.com/...eRevId=1&fee_ind=N&exp_date=20240804-19:41:13

Higher levels of income inequality increase political pressures, discouraging trade, investment, and hiring. Keynes first showed that income inequality can lead affluent households (Americans included) to increase savings and decrease consumption (1), while those with less means increase consumer borrowing to sustain consumption…until those options run out. When these imbalances can no longer be sustained, we see a boom/bust cycle such as the one that culminated in the Great Recession (2).

Aside from the extreme economic swings, such income imbalances tend to dampen social mobility and produce a less-educated workforce that can't compete in a changing global economy. This diminishes future income prospects and potential long-term growth, becoming entrenched as political repercussions extend the problems.
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powermd said:
Here is a guy whose opinion you might trust more than mine, who agrees with my observation that we are headed for feudalism. He has a few more valid points too.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...ng-for-us-plutocrats-108014.html#.VMD08y7F_rE
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But, we don't teach medical students and physicians-in-training to think this way: to risk their careers, to innovate, to be entrepreneurial like Mr. Hanauer, Jeff Tauber, or Jeff Bezos.

Instead, we teach them to follow protocols, adhere to guidelines, and color inside the lines. The entire medical school selection and education process is grooming for a life steeped in the herd mentality. Hence, after a decade or more of advanced technical, professional, and scientific training most graduating medical students are more "comfortable" (less motivated?) working for the man than staking their own claim like Mr. Hanauer did. This is happening all across our profession: The chipping away of entrepreneurial incentive, professional autonomy, province of control. Bright and talented men and women, who graduated with honors from prestigious colleges and universities, now feel it is "natural," and almost second nature, to kow-tow to not-so-bright hospital administrators, nurse-administrators, department managers, and "quality" experts; feel that it is acceptable that a doctor should enter their own orders into the computer because the ward clerk needs a coffee break; accept that they must stay late because the nurses' Union contract had imposed certain staffing ratios; to put their own compensation "at risk" with the hospital or "gain-share" with the ACO because ideals like "equity," "the mission," "the greater good" say so. All those "ideals" code words, dog-whistles, and group-think for controlling and discouraging physicians to be autonomous actors and masters of their domain. They don't outnumber us by accident rather by design.

http://www.healthline.com/health-news/policy-ten-administrators-for-every-one-us-doctor-092813

When the 99% turn their pitch-forks on the 1%, they will be blind to who the real enslavers are: Big Government, Big Healthcare/ACO, Big Finance, etc. Not Main Street. Not the entrepreneurial risk-takers and start-up business owners. Not the independently-owned and operated businesses in their local towns and cities who employ their neighbors and relatives by providing service and taking care of their communities.

No. Using history as our guide, and based upon what we saw happen in places like Ferguson, Detroit, etc--the mob will turn against small (mostly immigrant-owned and operated) and large business alike without discernment. They will turn against anything that represents or symbolizes "the ownership society." The race rioters in Detroit burned down their OWN neighbor's houses and neighborhood businesses first. Ditto for Ferguson. Every choice creates consequences and every vote for Big Government, the Nanny State, and European-styled socialist health care fuels the mob mentality and insatiable thirst for "more benefits," "more re-distribution," "more..."
 
you miss his point completely because of your blind hatred for big government and other organizations. revolution will start small and spread and encompass all, out of control, like any revolution. one way of preventing revolution is to get the masses likely to rebel a stake in the action.

read his article again - we are in the midst of less redistribution of income than in the 80s.


in response to your article, i know you posted to show the increase from 1:14 to 1:16 doctor:staff ratio, but interesting quotes:
The first and most important fix they advise is for doctors and hospitals to focus on the needs of each patient and band together as a team to treat the patient through the whole course of an illness: In the case of someone who needs a new hip, from primary care to surgery and then through rehabilitation.
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doesnt sound like they are advocating doctors act as automonous actors and masters of their domain...
And of course, reform would be incomplete without fixing the fee-for-service payment system, which rewards doctors and hospitals for performing more tests and procedures. Instead, Porter and Lee say, payments should be bundled together to cover the entire cost of a care cycle (like joint replacement and rehab) or care for a chronic condition for a set period of time.
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I'm not sure I understand the relevance of your rant on what doctors in training signed up for vs what is now being served to them in relation to accelerating wealth inequality, a developing feudal society, and ultimately rebellion.

drusso said:
When the 99% turn their pitch-forks on the 1%, they will be blind to who the real enslavers are: Big Government, Big Healthcare/ACO, Big Finance, etc. Not Main Street.

They will turn against anything that represents or symbolizes "the ownership society."
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Don't leave out big oil, big retail, big media, and big politics too.

To that I say maybe. I agree they will probably turn on those in the community whose wealth is most visible, but may spare those who are obviously major benefactors to the community in terms of employment and community development. But they will go after the real enslavers too. Social media will take care of that.

This is why the upper 0.01% needs to get behind reasonable wealth redistribution plans now. The other really great reason is that rich business owners need customers. I think Hanauer made a very good point as well about the best way to shrink government is to reduce our demand for it. When people make a living wage, they don't need welfare and SNAP.

By the way, Pacific Coast Pillow Company pillows are awesome. Totally worth it.
 
powermd said:
Do you not see how the power in this country over things that really matter is concentrated among the very few who have the funds and the will to sway policy and elections? If you don't see that, there's not much more we have to talk about.
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Please explain how Obama beat Romney. Romney was your fear incarnate, the wealthy, connected 1 percenter who can buy anything. So why didn't he buy the election? I believe the perception that wealthy people can buy votes is vastly overstated. Like the environmentalist Tom Steyer found out recently when he wasted millions of his own dollars to influence the mid-terms.
 
hyperalgesia said:
Please explain how Obama beat Romney. Romney was your fear incarnate, the wealthy, connected 1 percenter who can buy anything. So why didn't he buy the election? I believe the perception that wealthy people can buy votes is vastly overstated. Like the environmentalist Tom Steyer found out recently when he wasted millions of his own dollars to influence the mid-terms.
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That's a little like pointing out that one year's weather doesn't fit the pattern of global warming, so therefore the process doesn't exist. In the case of the presidency, I'm not sure it really matters who wins. Money drives policy on both sides.

The big picture here is that the wealthy have been favored for a long time and it's killing the middle class. We need to find a way to recirculate cash from the top to the middle. Hanauer suggested raising the minimum wage, pointing out the benefits he has observed in Seattle. That's one option. Changes in the tax code are another.
 
powermd said:
benefits he has observed in Seattle. That's one option. Changes in the tax code are another.
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Hahahaha

I live in Seattle. Have a business in Seattle. Small businesses are closing due to the $15 minimum wage they have to pay for some fool to wash dishes, flip burgers, etc. I cannot tell you how pissed small business owners are due to this. Its going to leave only medium to large sized businesses surviving in the City, as small businesses cannot meet overhead.
 
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is there anywhere online that has a synopsis of what his speech suggested from a conservative's point of view.

I've been looking online and couldn't find one.

I do not want to hear him speak.
 
PinchandBurn said:
is there anywhere online that has a synopsis of what his speech suggested from a conservative's point of view.

I've been looking online and couldn't find one.

I do not want to hear him speak.
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It's always better to let others help you form an opinion. Beats having to think for yourself.

I thought it was a good speech, the best I've ever heard him give. I doubt any of his proposals will actually go anywhere in this Congress. I think it's more of a setup for the party's agenda in 2016.
 
Ligament said:
Hahahaha

I live in Seattle. Have a business in Seattle. Small businesses are closing due to the $15 minimum wage they have to pay for some fool to wash dishes, flip burgers, etc. I cannot tell you how pissed small business owners are due to this. Its going to leave only medium to large sized businesses surviving in the City, as small businesses cannot meet overhead.
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http://www.paychex.com/jobs-index/index.aspx

Scroll down to state and metro performance.

Which state topped the list for employment growth?
 
^^The data does not clearly reinforce your position. Seattle is the 3rd best metro, but its not telling anyone what those jobs are. Seattle has quite a few larger companies, and we don't know what kind of jobs are being created and if they were to be paid more than 15 an hour to start regardless.
 
pmrmd said:
^^The data does not clearly reinforce your position. Seattle is the 3rd best metro, but its not telling anyone what those jobs are. Seattle has quite a few larger companies, and we don't know what kind of jobs are being created and if they were to be paid more than 15 an hour to start regardless.
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Of course it doesn't. Economics is pseudoscience at best and it would take a lot of data to make a truly convincing argument that a $15 minimum wage was directly responsible for much better than average economic growth in the Seattle area.

My point was simply to counter Ligament's observation that businesses are closing and that is necessarily due to the new minimum wage law.

I have mixed feelings about a $15 minimum wage. What if the job you need done is basically forcing you to overpay for the skill level of the work? We pay all of our staff >$15/hr at our office, but run a lean outfit and ask a lot of our employees. At home I hire a $10/hr mother's helper. This is a very low skill level job for which I do not need or want higher skill labor. If I had to pay $15/hr, I would fire my current helper and go with a different one who already charges $15/hr but provides much higher level service (comfortable leaving kids alone with her, letting her take them out, overnights, etc).

I do feel like the population should benefit on some baseline level from the productivity gains we see secondary to improved technology, rather than just the owners of the means of production. Take these gains to their logical end point... we will have so many superfluous workers it will lead to social instability. That's a big problem. At some point people will need to start receiving something for nothing, or they'll starve.
 
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