Obamacare - Even higher rate hikes approved

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

NOSfan

Full Member
Lifetime Donor
15+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
1,426
Reaction score
542
Some hikes are greater than 50%!

How can policymakers continue to support this debacle?


101816-ACA-Hikes-Online.V6.jpg


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...miums-strengthen-obamacare-insurers/92286590/

Members don't see this ad.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
If you read wiki leaks, Hiliary wants republicans to destroy obamacare in congress so she can implement a single payer system. Otherwise she's not doing anything. If I were house republicans I would let it implode...
 
The house of cards called Obamacare, continues to crumble due to its interdependent mediocrity. Rates will be so high this year for those who elect to work (to support those that do not) that many will simply ditch this albatross of a program that weighs down the economy. The system is set up to scam physicians. Patient without any money enrolls....may pay one premium, gets a $15,000 surgery and hospital stay and multiple physician visits, then drops the plan the next month. The insurers are then allowed to recapture from physicians (but not hospitals), payments made since the patient is no longer in the program having dropped out. The physicians get stiffed. The hospitals get paid. The insurers get stiffed. The patient has won the medical lottery all due to the calculated and planned legalized grand larceny perpetuated by Obama, the savior of the downtrodden.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
//“Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. And basically, you know, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical to getting the thing to pass.”
Jonathan Gruber, an architect of the Affordable Care Act, on the passage of Obamacare.//

are you an American voter? then it is your fault. clearly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
What boggles my mind is why politicians like Clinton hang onto this. I would expect her to run for the hills and pick a more popular issue.
 
She is waiting until the American public cries out en masse against the financial impossibility of continued cost escalations to infinity so she can bring single payor to assuage their angst.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
to blame our health system's woes on Obamacare is short-sighted. the term "obamacare" itself means a whole crapload of things:

good things:
more insured people
pre-existing conditions covered
kids on parents plan until 26

bad things:
meaningful use/regulations/minutiae
dependence of EHR/technology when the infrastructure is not ready for it.
increased taxes
poor reimbursent under exchange plans
many others


insurance companies and big pharma continues to take a huge chunk. that is where things need to change the most.

we have talked about this before. its easy to just say "obamacare" is the problem when the real problem goes way deeper than that.
 
to blame our health system's woes on Obamacare is short-sighted. the term "obamacare" itself means a whole crapload of things:

good things:
more insured people
pre-existing conditions covered
kids on parents plan until 26

bad things:
meaningful use/regulations/minutiae
dependence of EHR/technology when the infrastructure is not ready for it.
increased taxes
poor reimbursent under exchange plans
many others


insurance companies and big pharma continues to take a huge chunk. that is where things need to change the most.

we have talked about this before. its easy to just say "obamacare" is the problem when the real problem goes way deeper than that.

There is nothing good about more insured people, when it means that the people that deserve to be insured (the ones that PAY for their insurance), loose their benefits or go bankrupt subsidizing the poor.
Nothing good about pre-existing conditions covered, it is IMPOSSIBLE to run an insurance company when you are forced to cover guaranteed losses (I hate the insurance companies, but even I see this as a blatant spit in the face of reality)
Nothing good about infantilizing our young people, keeping them dependent on mommy and daddy until they are 26!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Members don't see this ad :)
So to all of you who don't like the ACA, your preference is to allow the insurance carriers to go back to the old system?

My memory is we all railed against those evil corporations and they're overpaid CEOs for years before the ACA was implemented. Any reason to believe they'll be more benevolent this time around?

And the Working Poor? Because let's be clear, the very poor will still be covered under Medicaid. You would prefer to have them return to those cost-effective emergency rooms for their care?
 
Last edited:
My memory is we all railed against those evil corporations and they're overpaid CEOs for years before the ACA was implemented. Any reason to believe they'll be more benevolent this time around?
We definitely didn't all rally against CEO salaries. Anyway, did the ACA change insurance executive salaries? I'm pretty sure insurance companies authored the ACA because it mandates that everyone purchase their crooked product. Then they pulled out of the exchanges and the mandate remains. Meanwhile the working taxpayers have paid hundreds of millions to subsidize this.

So should we go back to those terrible times? Sure.

These government programs are not moving us forward. They're moving us to a crony system.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Pre Obamacare was absolutely BETTER than post Obamacare. I paid much less for my insurance premiums. My patients had MUCH lower deductibles, monthly payments, and co-pays.

That said, it was bad then. Obamacare just made it significantly worse.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Pre Obamacare was absolutely BETTER than post Obamacare. I paid much less for my insurance premiums. My patients had MUCH lower deductibles, monthly payments, and co-pays.

That said, it was bad then. Obamacare just made it significantly worse.

right. you are rich, ligament. at least by comparative measures. you dont take medicaid. i assume you dont take many of the exchanges or make the patient pay a lot out of pocket. that fine, i expect you to be adequately paid for a private practice job. but, your are only commenting on your own personal sphere of influence. to the working poor and those now insured -- obamacare is better than having a heart attack or leukemia comptely bankrupt yourself and your family.
 
Obamacare created artificial markets, subsidized artificial insurance "products" to consumers, and expanded Medicaid resulting in large cash transfers to hospital health systems. It's actually worse than socialized medicine. At least with socialized medicine the government is not pretending that it isn't being confiscatory in the interest of "the good of the public." Obamacare both steals and lies.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
right. you are rich, ligament. at least by comparative measures. you dont take medicaid. i assume you dont take many of the exchanges or make the patient pay a lot out of pocket. that fine, i expect you to be adequately paid for a private practice job. but, your are only commenting on your own personal sphere of influence. to the working poor and those now insured -- obamacare is better than having a heart attack or leukemia comptely bankrupt yourself and your family.

Obamacare is stealing money from peter to pay paul. Might be better for the person with Obamacare and leukemia, but not better for all other Americans paying for the person with Obamacare with leukemia as their personal premiums, deductibles, and co-pays skyrocket. You want health care? Pay for it, yourself.
 
Universal Health Care Isn't Bad. Look at Canada.

And Doctors get paid well, here is an article from the NY Times of Canada, very legit source:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...uch-are-canadian-doctors-paid/article7750697/

"CIHI found the average Canadian doctor was paid $307,000 in 2010-11."
"But, again, there is a range, from psychiatrists, the specialists who bill the least ($232,000 gross; $186,000 net), to ophthalmologists, who bill the most ($676,000 gross; $418,000 net)."

The government completely controls the billing, one insurance company. But guess what, significantly less paperwork, 0 pre-authorizations, and malpractice is a fraction of what it is here.

I personally know pain doctors in Canada that earn 600-700k, in Toronto.

Just some food for thought,
 
Universal Health Care Isn't Bad. Look at Canada.

And Doctors get paid well, here is an article from the NY Times of Canada, very legit source:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...uch-are-canadian-doctors-paid/article7750697/

"CIHI found the average Canadian doctor was paid $307,000 in 2010-11."
"But, again, there is a range, from psychiatrists, the specialists who bill the least ($232,000 gross; $186,000 net), to ophthalmologists, who bill the most ($676,000 gross; $418,000 net)."

The government completely controls the billing, one insurance company. But guess what, significantly less paperwork, 0 pre-authorizations, and malpractice is a fraction of what it is here.

I personally know pain doctors in Canada that earn 600-700k, in Toronto.

Just some food for thought,
They have medical malpractice controls, tribunals, medical boards, and less defensive medicine spending. The EU and Europe is the same. In the USA we have lawyers looking to milk the system. Vascular surgeon Colleague of mine just hit with a 25million settlement against him and the hospital ER. This doesn't happen in good old Canada. Take home message, you can't compare healthcare between countries unless they have equal medicolegal fabric.... i don't know of anybody rushing to Canada to practice medicine .
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
The house of cards called Obamacare, continues to crumble due to its interdependent mediocrity. Rates will be so high this year for those who elect to work (to support those that do not) that many will simply ditch this albatross of a program that weighs down the economy. The system is set up to scam physicians. Patient without any money enrolls....may pay one premium, gets a $15,000 surgery and hospital stay and multiple physician visits, then drops the plan the next month. The insurers are then allowed to recapture from physicians (but not hospitals), payments made since the patient is no longer in the program having dropped out. The physicians get stiffed. The hospitals get paid. The insurers get stiffed. The patient has won the medical lottery all due to the calculated and planned legalized grand larceny perpetuated by Obama, the savior of the downtrodden.

No way this can be true...
 
I agree with you 100%. That's why we need to overhaul the medical system completely. More controls, more tribunals, etc. If that happens, then doctors will be less on the hook for lawsuits, with the colleges instead taking care of it.

There are lots of doctors moving to Canada from USA. Do a quick Google search.

http://windsorstar.com/health/doctor-flow-reversed-as-u-s-physicians-move-to-windsor

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...ving-to-canada.html?client=ms-android-verizon



Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
Obamacare created artificial markets, subsidized artificial insurance "products" to consumers, and expanded Medicaid resulting in large cash transfers to hospital health systems. It's actually worse than socialized medicine. At least with socialized medicine the government is not pretending that it isn't being confiscatory in the interest of "the good of the public." Obamacare both steals and lies.

Explain to me why, when 30 million more Americans now have health insurance, "the good of the public" needs to be in quotes.
 
Explain to me why, when 30 million more Americans now have health insurance, "the good of the public" needs to be in quotes.

Because "the good of the public" is an illusory concept (an ideal really). It's clap-trap designed to obscure the heterogeneity of needs that the American public has. Not everyone needs the same thing from health care--Millennial versus boomers have very different needs.

How can you be certain that we wouldn't have 90 million more insured if Congress had 1) deregulated insurance markets; 2) allowed insurance to be bought and sold across state lines; 3) provided tax credits to employers and individuals to offset premiums; 4) used restraint of trade laws to police against the conglomeration of hospitals and networks into large employment ghettos for MD/DO's; 5) fund state Medicaid systems via block grants to local health authorities (instead of insurance companies) so that they could put money to use where it is actually needed (paying providers); 6) and reforming medical liability laws.

https://abetterway.speaker.gov/_assets/pdf/ABetterWay-HealthCare-PolicyPaper.pdf
 
I agree with you 100%. That's why we need to overhaul the medical system completely. More controls, more tribunals, etc. If that happens, then doctors will be less on the hook for lawsuits, with the colleges instead taking care of it.

There are lots of doctors moving to Canada from USA. Do a quick Google search.

http://windsorstar.com/health/doctor-flow-reversed-as-u-s-physicians-move-to-windsor

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...ving-to-canada.html?client=ms-android-verizon



Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
I theory a single payer can work ,but not in the USA. No way congress and a political division can overhaul healthcare correctly. More importantly no way you can regulate attorneys in this country, its run by them.... so focus should be on OUR country not examples of how great denmarks 5 million people get their healthcare . Now maybe if we give everybody crappy medicaid (i.e. SSD patients) then maybe they will seek better options on their own
 
Universal Health Care Isn't Bad. Look at Canada.

And Doctors get paid well, here is an article from the NY Times of Canada, very legit source:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...uch-are-canadian-doctors-paid/article7750697/

"CIHI found the average Canadian doctor was paid $307,000 in 2010-11."
"But, again, there is a range, from psychiatrists, the specialists who bill the least ($232,000 gross; $186,000 net), to ophthalmologists, who bill the most ($676,000 gross; $418,000 net)."

The government completely controls the billing, one insurance company. But guess what, significantly less paperwork, 0 pre-authorizations, and malpractice is a fraction of what it is here.

I personally know pain doctors in Canada that earn 600-700k, in Toronto.

Just some food for thought,

Here is what most do not know: the Canadian medical boards TIGHTLY control physician supply and demand.

Virtually impossible to practice medicine in Canada unless you have done a Canadian residency and/or fellowship. The board exams written and oral can only (with rare exception) be passed by physicians completing CANADIAN residences or fellowships. So good on the physicians for controlling the market.
 
Obamacare had far reaching implications well beyond the inability to obtain insurance and coverage to age 26. It is anticompetitive making it illegal for doctors to own hospitsls while encouraging hospital ownership of doctor practices. It is absolutely not portable. If you move to another state or travel out of state for an extended period of time, all you have is emergency coverage. It encourages patients commiting legalized larceny against physicians. It does not stave off bankruptcy. A $6,800 deductable will cause bankruptcy in the vast majority of the working poor and add a 20% copay just for fun and see what happens. It also caused massive increase in insurance costs to those that lost their previous health insurances that did not qualify for obamacare. There has not been a massive drop in infant mortality since obamacare requies all of us to cover the cost of pregnancy.... Large corporations continue to flirt with dropping corporate coverage and simply pay the fine.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Here is what most do not know: the Canadian medical boards TIGHTLY control physician supply and demand.

Virtually impossible to practice medicine in Canada unless you have done a Canadian residency and/or fellowship. The board exams written and oral can only (with rare exception) be passed by physicians completing CANADIAN residences or fellowships. So good on the physicians for controlling the market.

This is incorrect.

Canadian and American residencies have RECIPROCAL treatment. Canadian colleges (each province has their own college, for example, in Ontario it is Canadian Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario, CPSO) regulate licensing, just like each state in U.S Does.

Here is the requirements for Americans to work in Ontario:

http://www.cpso.on.ca/policies-publications/policy/pathway-3-–-u-s-or-canadian-medical-degree-or-doct#pathway3

Basically as long as you pass Step 1-3 and have a state license, you're good to go. Now remember, this is just for Ontario. But I also found the requirements for British Columbia:

https://www.cpsbc.ca/files/pdf/REG-Full-Prov-SP.pdf

Same thing. Since Vancouver and Toronto are the "NYC and LA" of Canada, I think its safe to say the other provinces in Canada also accept US ACGME training for licensing, but don't quote me on that. Anecdotally, my family knows a few american trained docs that practice in the Toronto area.

But, you are also somewhat correct. Canada only allows AMERICANS/American Residency Trained docs to work in Canada. If you're from anywhere else, you are pretty much screwed, and yes, you will need to redo your residency if you're from China or France in Canada. So in that regard, it is tightly regulated. And you also need to be Canadian citizen or permanent resident to do residency in Canada (There is no such thing as J1/H1b visa equivalent).
 
Last edited:
I theory a single payer can work ,but not in the USA. No way congress and a political division can overhaul healthcare correctly. More importantly no way you can regulate attorneys in this country, its run by them.... so focus should be on OUR country not examples of how great denmarks 5 million people get their healthcare . Now maybe if we give everybody crappy medicaid (i.e. SSD patients) then maybe they will seek better options on their own

Again, I agree with your points, which is why I never supported Bernie in the first place. So why don't we emulate a 2 tier system like in Australia? I personally think Australia has the best healthcare system in the world. The doctors work 50% private, 50% public. Everyone gets healthcare, if they don't like the public stuff (Medicaid equivalent), they can opt for private insurance and get their stim in 3 days instead of waiting for 3-4 weeks in Canada. The UK has same 2 tier system. Canada is actually crappy in this regard, since it is in their constitution to make it illegal to provide any form of private health care.

So why can't we provide a turbo boosted medicaid for all, and then allow for private insurance to those who want to opt for it?
 
Again, I agree with your points, which is why I never supported Bernie in the first place. So why don't we emulate a 2 tier system like in Australia? I personally think Australia has the best healthcare system in the world. The doctors work 50% private, 50% public. Everyone gets healthcare, if they don't like the public stuff (Medicaid equivalent), they can opt for private insurance and get their stim in 3 days instead of waiting for 3-4 weeks in Canada. The UK has same 2 tier system. Canada is actually crappy in this regard, since it is in their constitution to make it illegal to provide any form of private health care.

So why can't we provide a turbo boosted medicaid for all, and then allow for private insurance to those who want to opt for it?
because "we" shouldn't have to provide anything for anyone. Every adult is responsible for their own needs...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
because "we" shouldn't have to provide anything for anyone. Every adult is responsible for their own needs...

Exactly. And this is the fundamental difference between the U.S and the rest of the world. Healthcare is a right everywhere else, here it is a privilege.
 
"we" should to provide a baseline something for everyone. "we" are a society that takes care of their young, elderly, and infirm. "we" are all part of this great nation and this earth together.

what "you" have and "own" is in no small part built on what others have done and will do... otherwise, that opinion of yours has been grounds for revolution since the dawn of humanity...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
"we" should to provide a baseline something for everyone. "we" are a society that takes care of their young, elderly, and infirm. "we" are all part of this great nation and this earth together.

what "you" have and "own" is in no small part built on what others have done and will do... otherwise, that opinion of yours has been grounds for revolution since the dawn of humanity...
no one else owns my stuff, my income, or my labor...I don't owe any of it to anyone and they don't have a moral right to take just because they outnumber me
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
"we" should to provide a baseline something for everyone. "we" are a society that takes care of their young, elderly, and infirm. "we" are all part of this great nation and this earth together.

what "you" have and "own" is in no small part built on what others have done and will do... otherwise, that opinion of yours has been grounds for revolution since the dawn of humanity...

no one else owns my stuff, my income, or my labor...I don't owe any of it to anyone and they don't have a moral right to take just because they outnumber me

Exactly, and you are both right. This is an ideological difference, and the root of why this present election is so polarized. There are no studies or evidence based articles that can prove or disprove this issue.
 
Put the lockdown on pharma bs companies that the cost will stagnate for the next decade. It's that simple. Just read the newspaper. I swear that I see a pharma scam being posted on the news section every week nowadays.
 
This is incorrect.

Canadian and American residencies have RECIPROCAL treatment. Canadian colleges (each province has their own college, for example, in Ontario it is Canadian Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario, CPSO) regulate licensing, just like each state in U.S Does.

Here is the requirements for Americans to work in Ontario:

http://www.cpso.on.ca/policies-publications/policy/pathway-3-–-u-s-or-canadian-medical-degree-or-doct#pathway3

Basically as long as you pass Step 1-3 and have a state license, you're good to go. Now remember, this is just for Ontario. But I also found the requirements for British Columbia:

https://www.cpsbc.ca/files/pdf/REG-Full-Prov-SP.pdf

Same thing. Since Vancouver and Toronto are the "NYC and LA" of Canada, I think its safe to say the other provinces in Canada also accept US ACGME training for licensing, but don't quote me on that. Anecdotally, my family knows a few american trained docs that practice in the Toronto area.

But, you are also somewhat correct. Canada only allows AMERICANS/American Residency Trained docs to work in Canada. If you're from anywhere else, you are pretty much screwed, and yes, you will need to redo your residency if you're from China or France in Canada. So in that regard, it is tightly regulated. And you also need to be Canadian citizen or permanent resident to do residency in Canada (There is no such thing as J1/H1b visa equivalent).

Thank you for correcting me. I was basing my comments off Canadian citizen that did her residency at a big sistem in the USA and pain fellowship in a big system on the East coast of the USA. She told me passing her board exams in BC was virtually impossible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
"we" should to provide a baseline something for everyone. "we" are a society that takes care of their young, elderly, and infirm. "we" are all part of this great nation and this earth together.

what "you" have and "own" is in no small part built on what others have done and will do... otherwise, that opinion of yours has been grounds for revolution since the dawn of humanity...

I don't buy into your socialist beliefs. We have no obligation to take care of anybody. I personally am happy to to take care of children. But thats it.
 
Universal Health Care Isn't Bad. Look at Canada.

And Doctors get paid well, here is an article from the NY Times of Canada, very legit source:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...uch-are-canadian-doctors-paid/article7750697/

"CIHI found the average Canadian doctor was paid $307,000 in 2010-11."
"But, again, there is a range, from psychiatrists, the specialists who bill the least ($232,000 gross; $186,000 net), to ophthalmologists, who bill the most ($676,000 gross; $418,000 net)."

The government completely controls the billing, one insurance company. But guess what, significantly less paperwork, 0 pre-authorizations, and malpractice is a fraction of what it is here.

I personally know pain doctors in Canada that earn 600-700k, in Toronto.

Just some food for thought,

You have to take into account what that actually is in American dollars. $307 = $225,000 with the highest paid physicians neting $313,000. That ain't so good. Our highest paid docs are making over 3x that here in America.
 
You have to take into account what that actually is in American dollars. $307 = $225,000 with the highest paid physicians neting $313,000. That ain't so good. Our highest paid docs are making over 3x that here in America.

Its not bad either...they have minimal medlegal risk, get a TON of vacation, don't have to hire 10 people full time to scribe, collect money owed to them by insurance companies, etc.
 
When the "Great Society" was being engineered in the 1960's was all of this fallout considered - the crony insurance industry, Medicare fraud and fiscal unsustainability, Obamacare? Did our socialist masters realize that "Healthcare Tourism" would be a thing AWAY from the USA?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Its not bad either...they have minimal medlegal risk, get a TON of vacation, don't have to hire 10 people full time to scribe, collect money owed to them by insurance companies, etc.

Exactly.

And remember, the canadian dollar right now is crap. 5 years ago 1 CAD = 1 USD. Kinda like how it is unfair to compare British Pounds to USD after Brexit.

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=CAD&view=10Y

So 600k for ophtho ain't bad. and the guys get 8 weeks vacation MINIMUM. and remember, education is much cheaper in Canada. If you have 4 kids, and you put them in medical school, the most expensive is University of Toronto (20k/year). So 4 kids = 80k/year. Not bad, for Ivy League Education. You put your kid into Columbia Meds...or even Tufts Meds...thats 240k/year. And of course healthcare is free in canada. And I personally know of pain doctors making 500-600k comfortably, with room to push 750k.

Now what you should have argued is the taxes. These are definitely higher in Canada compared to....Kansas. But actually are quite on far with tax heavy states like NY/Cali.

So yes, if you are trying to make $18 million like this guy:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/30/b...s-to-unblock-blood-vessels-in-limbs.html?_r=0

Then stay in USA. But the average/median salary of docs is actually nearly on par with USA, and much less headaches.

Thats all I'm trying to show, that socialized healthcare isn't that bad for docs.
 
The average canadian pays 42% of their income in taxes (direct and indirect) accordind to the Frazier institute. The marginal tax rate for federal alone is 48% for income over 200k and 50% over 300k. And add the HST, GST, local, levies, and presales tarrifs ....the doc making $300k in canada certainly lacks buying power due to massive taxation that is over 50% of the total income when all taxes are considered.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
The average canadian pays 42% of their income in taxes (direct and indirect) accordind to the Frazier institute. The marginal tax rate for federal alone is 48% for income over 200k and 50% over 300k. And add the HST, GST, local, levies, and presales tarrifs ....the doc making $300k in canada certainly lacks buying power due to massive taxation that is over 50% of the total income when all taxes are considered.

You are correct. But like I said in my previous statement, things like healthcare, education and malpractice is much lower, so keep that in mind.

There is set malpractice fees for each specialty, for each province. For example, I know for a fact OBGYN is 75k/year in Ontario (and this is the highest). Similarly here in NYC, it runs around 140-150k. I'm not 100% sure for pain docs, but I think it is around 20k/year.
 
Exactly.

And remember, the canadian dollar right now is crap. 5 years ago 1 CAD = 1 USD. Kinda like how it is unfair to compare British Pounds to USD after Brexit.

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=CAD&view=10Y

So 600k for ophtho ain't bad. and the guys get 8 weeks vacation MINIMUM. and remember, education is much cheaper in Canada. If you have 4 kids, and you put them in medical school, the most expensive is University of Toronto (20k/year). So 4 kids = 80k/year. Not bad, for Ivy League Education. You put your kid into Columbia Meds...or even Tufts Meds...thats 240k/year. And of course healthcare is free in canada. And I personally know of pain doctors making 500-600k comfortably, with room to push 750k.

Now what you should have argued is the taxes. These are definitely higher in Canada compared to....Kansas. But actually are quite on far with tax heavy states like NY/Cali.

So yes, if you are trying to make $18 million like this guy:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/30/b...s-to-unblock-blood-vessels-in-limbs.html?_r=0

Then stay in USA. But the average/median salary of docs is actually nearly on par with USA, and much less headaches.

Thats all I'm trying to show, that socialized healthcare isn't that bad for docs.

Socialized healthcare in Canada is not bad for specialists, for now. I am in agreement for this very small subset of physicians in this particular country, they are doing ok for now.

For PCPs, not great. For British physicians, TERRIBLE.

For patients, it is certainly terrible. 6 month wait for an epidural injeciton. 1 year wait to see a Pain Medicine specialist.
 
"we" should to provide a baseline something for everyone. "we" are a society that takes care of their young, elderly, and infirm. "we" are all part of this great nation and this earth together.

what "you" have and "own" is in no small part built on what others have done and will do... otherwise, that opinion of yours has been grounds for revolution since the dawn of humanity...
When you designate the Federal government to "take care of" the young, old and infirm, you sideline family, neighbors, churches, charities and altruists. Everything depends on benevolent politicians and bureaucrats.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Blitz, we are comparing income levels. Malpractice has already been paid out of gross revenues in both country statistics in order to arrive at income levels, so malpractice insurance rates are not relevant. What is relevant though is the lack of incentive not to sue in the US. In Canada, if the patient sues and loses, they have to pay the legal fees of the doctor, therefore the malpractice claims are proportionally lower. Also, in socialized medicine systems, the population is trained to put up with mediocrity (e.g. delayed access, restriction on advanced procedures, longer distances that must be traveled in order to obtain specialized services, etc. ) for the good of the country. Not so in the US where everyone demands instant gratification.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Top