Official 2013-2014 Pulm/CCM fellowship application cycle

[superman3n]

Maybe a bias towards the country I come from rather than his. Is that a better way of stating it? And I married someone from the U.S. and it only takes 3 years to become a citizen so I only had a green card for like 2 years, so why is that dubious exactly? And although I do agree that my application is heavily directed to Cards because that was my initial interest I explained why I had a change of heart in my personal statement. I'm just really confused as to why his application seems better than mine or is there some other reason I am being glossed over? CONFUSED! Thanks for your answer though.

So your visa bound "friend" got a better deal and you think there is a bias against foreigners? It doesn't make sense to me.

Having multiple publications in JACC could make you look like a cards applicant with a fail safe strategy in PCCM.

Btw the remark "Not only do I NOT need a visa because I'm now a citizen" makes me dubious on your post. If you're a recently naturalized citizen, you had (there is no way around it) a green card for some years before. During those you didn't need no visa. Not requiring a visa should be no news to you.

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[soulrider]

hey everyone..joining in the discussion a little bit late.. applied to 50 programs, received 6 ivs.. all already added to the main list. haven't heard anything for weeks now - except for the occasional rejection. was hoping to receive more based on colleagues from same program who applied last year, but i guess not.. now i'm hoping to find a good fit!

 

[soulrider]

Rejection from Hopkins.. No surprise there

 

[DocDox]

Rejection from Thomas Jefferson

 

[soulrider]

rejection from TJU also..
just wondering..if they are still sending rejections, is there any chance there will be more ivs sent??

 

[jdh71]

So your visa bound "friend" got a better deal and you think there is a bias against foreigners? It doesn't make sense to me.

Having multiple publications in JACC could make you look like a cards applicant with a fail safe strategy in PCCM.

Btw the remark "Not only do I NOT need a visa because I'm now a citizen" makes me dubious on your post. If you're a recently naturalized citizen, you had (there is no way around it) a green card for some years before. During those you didn't need no visa. Not requiring a visa should be no news to you.

Yup. That candidate smells like a cardio fan boy who couldn't match now making an attempt at Pulm/CC or even someone applying to both. No one wants to deal with that.

 

[Thorntons]

Previous poster, but new login/email

It's early. Still a bit of interviewing to go, but was wondering opinions or rankings of following programs:
UT Southwestern, U Chicago, Northwestern, Iowa, Utah, Duke, UCSD, UCLA, Mayo (Rochester), Michigan, and Columbia

I know it matters about MY opinion, career goals/etc, but was just seeing other sides.

Open to any location, career in academics with probably translational/clinical research, but open to bench with some prior experience. I want a well-rounded clinical experience with good procedural training.

Thanks for any help

 

[slippers82]

Impressive list. Congrats! Want to share some with the rest of us? Jk.

While on topic, can anyone speak to the major changes happening to UCLA and Cedars Sinai next year, in terms of program growth/shrinking and hospital sites?

 

[Thorntons]

I don't know much about it, but I know that Cedars Sinai is trying to make a run at being an academic powerhouse with recent hirings. Bringing Paul Noble to be chair of medicine (huge ILD guy from Duke most recently) and Tapson soon to follow (pulmonary HTN guru from Duke).

 

[soulrider]

What do you guys think about the PCCM fellowship at Washington Hospital Center?

 

[jdh71]

Previous poster, but new login/email

It's early. Still a bit of interviewing to go, but was wondering opinions or rankings of following programs:
UT Southwestern, U Chicago, Northwestern, Iowa, Utah, Duke, UCSD, UCLA, Mayo (Rochester), Michigan, and Columbia

I know it matters about MY opinion, career goals/etc, but was just seeing other sides.

Open to any location, career in academics with probably translational/clinical research, but open to bench with some prior experience. I want a well-rounded clinical experience with good procedural training.

Thanks for any help

Rankings here is MEANINGLESS. Go where there are doing the things you want to do.

Anyone who tries to put a ranking on those programs is a fooking ***** and doesn't know what he's talking about.

There are very, very few programs that are completely and totally well rounded clinically and academically - no deficiencies. So pick what you want to do.

 

[Super Turrican]

Have you thought about living in Rochester or Iowa City?? Been recently to Rochester and it basically will not suit my personality. UCSD/UTSW would be my favorite, just based on location (and a personal bias towards PH)

 

[Chu020]

Invite from Hopkins! After being sent a rejection email from them last Monday. Good times...

 

[fighter2]

Rejections from Duke and Montefiore Medical Center. I do not think that second round of interviews will come.

 

[DocDox]

Congrats to you .....rejection from univ of Maryland

 

[superman3n]

Yup. That candidate smells like a cardio fan boy who couldn't match now making an attempt at Pulm/CC or even someone applying to both. No one wants to deal with that.

So what I'm not sure about is...are we NOT allowed to have a change of heart specialty wise? I mean that isn't really realistic. SO someone who showed no interest in anything gets an interview but because I work my ass of and changed my mind I don't? How does that make sense? Lmao!

 

[Thorntons]

I guess more specifically how would you all compare U Chicago vs. Northwestern and UCLA vs. UCSD?
Thanks for any help.

 

[jdh71]

So what I'm not sure about is...are we NOT allowed to have a change of heart specialty wise? I mean that isn't really realistic. SO someone who showed no interest in anything gets an interview but because I work my ass of and changed my mind I don't? How does that make sense? Lmao!

Well, if your application doesn't look like it, then I'm not sure what to tell you. Rough break. Get something more pulmonary put together, maybe a couple of case posters, submit to Chest, ATS, or SCCM or get some research experience with someone doing something "pulmonary" for next year's application if it doesn't work out. Make sure your letters are from pulmonary people and make sure they say nice things.

 

[jdh71]

I guess more specifically how would you all compare U Chicago vs. Northwestern and UCLA vs. UCSD?
Thanks for any help.

What do you want to do with your career?

 

[soulrider]

Rejection from university of Maryland.. Not feeling any love anymore.
Anybody knows anything about Washington Hospital Center? Anything? Good or bad?

 

[Thorntons]

What do you want to do with your career?

Academics as a clinician-researcher. Likely translational/clinical but open to bench. I also like Pulm HTN or ILD.

 

[jdh71]

Academics as a clinician-researcher. Likely translational/clinical but open to bench. I also like Pulm HTN or ILD.

Would you be interested in spending extra time in fellowship if it meant protected time for research or even possibly picking up a PhD or a Masters?

 

[Thorntons]

I would be ok with extra time. I'm interested in obtaining a masters degree.

 

[dmitrinyr]

I got an invite from Medical College of Wisconsin this past week. It was already on the list, but I just wanted to let people know that there is at least one program that has a second round of interview offers (unless this is just from someone cancelling). I'm still hoping to hear back from some places as there are a good amount of places that I haven't heard from.

 

[gutonc]

I got an invite from Medical College of Wisconsin this past week. It was already on the list, but I just wanted to let people know that there is at least one program that has a second round of interview offers (unless this is just from someone cancelling). I'm still hoping to hear back from some places as there are a good amount of places that I haven't heard from.

At this point in the season, that's probably the case, either canceling or just not replying to an offer. I doubt they've been holding interview spots out "just to see what happens".

That said...you got the interview so at this point that's all that matters.

 

[slippers82]

Congrats. Thanks for a glimmer of hope as we're halfway thru interview season!

 

[jdh71]

I would be ok with extra time. I'm interested in obtaining a masters degree.

Well, UCLA sounds like it would be the "better" program for you on that list then. Followed by UChicago. NWern and UCSD would probably be able to accommodate your career goals as well but I would imagine it might take a bit more work as the systems to get your from academic fellow to academic staff (with fundable research skills and experience) will be more familiar and established at a UCLA or UChicago. Though, many of the gods of pumhtn live at UCSD.

The gossip I hear about UCSD is that outside of their pulmonary hypertension they are not particularly standout - which isn't to say they are "bad" at anything or you shouldn't go there or you will suck if you train there (NONE of that is being said) - only that if it comes to UCSD vs NWern pick the programs and or city you like best, UNLESS your love of pulmonary hypertension is just that high.

Hell, if your love of pulmonary hypertension is the number one priority, then you'd need to put UCSD at the top of the list. (not that anyone else is going to be particularly mickey mouse at it at the rest on the list)

I hope this helps. It's all about tailoring you list the way you want your career to track. None of those programs are bad, and all are really good.

 

[Thorntons]

No that helps a lot. Thanks jdh71.
Yeah it really is splitting hairs between these places. You are definitely correct that there is NO perfect program---all have some deficiencies.
What is your opinion of the Mayo way? I think your pulm training would be awesome, but I know this way to practice is not practical. I'm also a little concerned with the acuity in the ICU being in Rochester, MN.

 

[Super Turrican]

I have simmilar concerns regarding mayo. The changes in program directorship also seem like a problem. The lack of a regular university seemed strange to me both there and in cleveland clinic.

 

[jdh71]

No that helps a lot. Thanks jdh71.
Yeah it really is splitting hairs between these places. You are definitely correct that there is NO perfect program---all have some deficiencies.
What is your opinion of the Mayo way? I think your pulm training would be awesome, but I know this way to practice is not practical. I'm also a little concerned with the acuity in the ICU being in Rochester, MN.

I have simmilar concerns regarding mayo. The changes in program directorship also seem like a problem. The lack of a regular university seemed strange to me both there and in cleveland clinic.

Well. The ICU experience at Mayo isn't go to be what it is at other places. I mean it's not going to be "bad" but it clearly won't be as good. When it comes to critical care, at the end of the day critical care is critical care is critical care - now this is nuanced, BUT spending time in fellowship taking care of patients in the MICU Mayo will translate into being able to take care of these kinds of patients anywhere else. You will miss some cases you'd see at a place like Pitt for instance, or any other bigger referral center or end of the road stop MICU in the big city. I'm not convinced that it is necessary for you to have a brutal MICU experience to become competent in the unit. I think you need to be busy, and I think you'll be busy. Mayo is funny procedurally but as I understand it fellows have crack at all procedures and the gossip is you do your own intubations without having to fight with gas residents or CRNAs.

The pulm should be very good - at least it has the potential to be. Mayo is one of those end of the road destinations for problems other pulmonologists in the community can't figure out. Bread and butter will be bread and butter. They have good ILD, but would not be the greatest for transplant. Part of your pulmonary potential will be limited by the fact that Mayo will only see patients who will pay. They have an excellent interventional bronchoscopy - though as I understand it now with a new super-fellow interventional "fellowship", it remains to be seen how much of this action will go to the regular clinical fellows now.

The work environment is pretty posh on the clinic side, and I think every fellow gets their own work area (nice). I think they are on epic EMR now which isn't perfect but probably better than all the rest. But then there is Rochester. The argument being, it's not exciting but its worth it for the training.

On balance, I'm not sure how personally impressed I am with the place, even though it's a great place to train, but again, if you think it will be good for your career goals, the it will be a good place for you. If you like their style and like that environment then it could be really good for you. I think it will be hard to translate that experience from Mayo to anywhere else.

My thoughts.

 

[Super Turrican]

Thanks. I will try to pcik your brain another time when my interviews are finalizing.

 

[DocDox]

Invite for interview at NY Methodist

 

[MemberMD]

Invite for interview at NY Methodist

Awesome. Congrads!

 

[thierryhenry]

Invite for interview at NY Methodist

rut-rooo

 

[slippers82]

Invite for interview at NY Methodist

Yes there is hope! Congrats

Only thing I got today was an interview schedule for Cedars Sinai, oh and a survey from ERAS haha!

 

[fighter2]

Got Interview from SIU IL. (Pulmonary medicine)

 

[slippers82]

Interview from USC! My first "second wave" invite woohoo!

 

[ESPY]

Longtime poster under another (less anonymous) handle. I'd appreciate any advice, JDH.

So far programs on the interview trail have not separated themselves out as much as I'd hoped they would. I'm hoping to work as as close to a pure clinician educator as I can down the road. I am cognizant of fellowship pedigree only in that I recognize that such a position at an academic shop on the west coast (where I would like to end up for family reasons) is competitive, and that program brand name may be a deal-sealer at some point in the future job hunt. It's not a big priority, which I think reflects in the spectrum of programs below. I'm also not looking to run myself into the ground as a fellow for the principle of it (NW and Cedars schedules seem a bit more forgiving), as I have an 18 m.o. who has discovered his favorite game is "wake up post-call daddy."

I'm looking for a rounded clinical experience, and while I'm a unit-first person, on the pulm side, I am more clinically interested in ILD and IP, less so in transplant. The clinician educator track wasn't as coherent as I'd hoped most places I interviewed (a lot of... "you could probably tailor your research year to medical education" on interview days), with the exception of UW, which I had hoped would spread the field a bit.

Anyway, hope that context is helpful.

My IV list, in no particular order: UW, Penn, Northwestern, MGH/BID, UCSD, UCD, Michigan, Cedars, Colorado, OHSU, UCSF . The wife disallowed IVs everywhere else, so we're down to places we both are interested in living.

Thanks, JDH.

 

[jdh71]

I'm out interviewing. Responding soon.

Job offers are NICE guys. I'm only looking at employed gigs and a guy could make more working like a dog in a traditional private practice but I'll take my contracted shifts, my guranteed salary (with production bonus if I feel like of), and the lifestyle working as an employee affords me (working about about three weeks in any given month with most of my weekends off and night covered without me needing to always run in from home).

There's light at the end of the tunnel guys. I wouldn't listen to those voices telling you to bail and just do hospitalist IF you really want to do this speciality.

 

[JasonLChertoff]

Anyone hear anything about Memorial Sloan Kettering's program?

 

[Super Turrican]

I sent them an email long ago, said they'll be in touch. No response so far.

 

[JasonLChertoff]

You sent an email to MSK? Were you interested in their 2-year fellowship? What have you heard about it?

 

[Super Turrican]

It's definitely biased towards pulmonary oncology. However met one of their fellows in the last ATS and he was happy as a clam. They have a tie up with their critical care fellowship, kind of a "guaranteed" spot after the 2 years of pulm.

 

[JasonLChertoff]

Understood. Thanks for the info. I think I'm only interested in doing the 2 year ccm which is why I ask about their program. It sounds like there aren't many spots open to outsiders not already in the MSK network?

 

[Super Turrican]

Have no more info on that.

 

[soulrider]

Anyone has any info on the Drexel PCCM program?

 

[Super Turrican]

Wow. There's some truth to the phrase "No place like home". Finally done with 50% of interviews; taking a breather. Anyone has any insight on Iowa, Nebraska, Rush or Buffalo?

 

[liv52]

Wow. There's some truth to the phrase "No place like home". Finally done with 50% of interviews; taking a breather. Anyone has any insight on Iowa, Nebraska, Rush or Buffalo?

Iowa seemed to be a solid program with the weakness that comes from the location. Not sure about the other ones.
Would somebody share their thoughts on Montefiore Bronx?

 

[jdh71]

Wow. There's some truth to the phrase "No place like home". Finally done with 50% of interviews; taking a breather. Anyone has any insight on Iowa, Nebraska, Rush or Buffalo?

Nebraska and Iowa are solid. Both of them both from a critical care and pulmonary perspective. Basic science at both spots mostly. No lung transplant at Nebraska.
Both are more "academic". Both have a VA.

Rush and Buffalo I do not know much about, though I think it would be fair to characterize them as clinical fellowships.

 

[souljah1]

I'm looking for a rounded clinical experience, and while I'm a unit-first person, on the pulm side, I am more clinically interested in ILD and IP, less so in transplant. The clinician educator track wasn't as coherent as I'd hoped most places I interviewed (a lot of... "you could probably tailor your research year to medical education" on interview days), with the exception of UW, which I had hoped would spread the field a bit.

Anyway, hope that context is helpful.

My IV list, in no particular order: UW, Penn, Northwestern, MGH/BID, UCSD, UCD, Michigan, Cedars, Colorado, OHSU, UCSF . The wife disallowed IVs everywhere else, so we're down to places we both are interested in living.

Exposure to all areas of pulmonary and critical care from a clinical standpoint is important if you are still somewhat totipotent, which it seems that you are. Some of the bigger places mentioned above will definitely be able to do this for you.

As far as a clinical educator track is concerned - that means different things at different institutions. What do you mean by "clinical educator"? Does it include research? If so, how much?

If what you mean by that is to be a great bedside teacher who also takes part in quality improvement, curricula development, etc - then what you are really saying is that you want to be an academic clinician. The difficult part is trying to merge interests in medical education with research. The main reason why that is difficult is because it is pretty difficult (without a clear road in view) to obtain funding to pay for research that is centered on medical education. Often, you have to merge it with health services or something like that to take more of a policy angle - or seek money directly from the ABIM or intramurally. Harder to provide a clear framework for those sorts of things on an interview day. Much easier to provide a framework for successfully obtaining career development awards in epidemiology, bench work, or health policy. Feel free to PM me if you want more on that.

Best of luck.