Official 2013-2014 - What are my chances thread?

[doctora2013]

Your stuff looks similar to mine, except that your scores are 9-17 points higher, your psych clerkship grade is a bit lower, and otherwise similar quantity/quality of extracurricular/research stuff. If you're a non-Carib FMG, the reputation of your med school might contribute a tiny bit - that helped me a lot because I went to a place with a recognizable name. I ended up going to WashU, and my other top choices were Mayo, Cleveland Clinic, Iowa, and Baylor. You'll get better interviews than I did because your scores are higher and you've already taken CS, which I hadn't done when I applied. Of the programs affiliated with "top 10" med schools (which I mention because you say "best program possible," which is hard to quantify), you'll probably get interviews at WashU, Yale, Penn, Duke, UW, and maybe Hopkins and Stanford. The only programs that might be a reach are the Harvard programs (except for South Shore, of course), Columbia, Cornell, UCLA, and UCSF.
UCSD also has a great program (especially in the opinion of those of us who are at WashU) - California can be tough for IMGs, but since you did your undergrad there, it might be realistic.

Thank you so much for your advice! I now have a clear idea of what to expect. Very helpful indeed!

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[MLT2MT2DO]

4th year DO Student here.

COMLEX 1: 408 (second try)
Step 1: 190 (second try)
COMLEX 2: Found out a failed a few days ago
COMLEX PE (the osteo CS equivalent): Passed in June
School: DO school on the western half of the country
Class Rank: lower 10%
Grades in Clerkship: As and Bs
AOA: No
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Not much - some volunteering doing physicals for high school kids in the area. Nothing in psychiatry because I didn't decide upon the field until the middle of my 3rd year.
Red Flags: Failed both the COMLEX 1 and Step 1 on first try, took a year off to study for them then passed them the second try. I just failed COMLEX 2 and am planning on taking it again at the end of September.
Overview of where you want to end up: Anywhere. I realize I can't be picky now.

What should be my plan of action here? Passing the COMLEX 2 in September is key - I will get all of September off to do that. I plan on applying to at least 70 programs, as long as my boards meet the minimum requirements. Should I go ahead and submit my application in September before I get my COMLEX 2 back? Anything else I should do?

Thanks for your help.

Only a 4th year DO student myself, but if I were in your shoes I'd be applying to DO residencies as well. While many of these residencies may not be ideal I have to imagine most (not all) have to be better than going unmatched. Additionally I'd also try and get a Psych rotation in, if possible, so it will at least be on your transcript so it doesn't look like you're "settling"for psych.

 

[claypidgeon]

Also 4th year DO Student here.

COMLEX 1: 545
Step 1: 230
COMLEX 2: 520
USMLE step 2: 227
COMLEX PE (the osteo CS equivalent): Should have results by Sept 15th. Feel I passed.
School: CA DO school
Class Rank: 25th percentile
Grades in Clerkship: pass on my first one and surgery, honors in three including psych, high pass in all others. Additional elective in psych third year. Good comments and I assume letters. Mostly good rotations at teaching hospitals.
AOA: No
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Three pubs, two in a decent journal not psych related, one psych related in a throwaway, from work done just before entering school though the stuff was published during second year and I kept in touch helping write/update things. Elected position in our school's psych club first year. Random health fairs, attending conferences and stuff here and there. Long and documented interest in psych since undergrad.
Red Flags: No fails or deans office visits I'm the top of the bottom quartile in class rank. And there's that drop in step 2 scores.

I have a risk averse personality when applications are concerned and applied to way too many MD and DO schools first go around. My initial list on ERAS is almost 50 programs I'd be honored to attend and I don't want to repeat the mass applications if unneeded. I want to end up in a non NYC urban area with good psychopharm and biological psych and adequate psychotherapy opportunities. I've enjoyed community psych programs though the opportunity to do clinical, not bench, research is important to me. I really enjoyed the psych ER. I have strong ties to CA and Chicago and focused my apps on the urban west coast, Chicago, and Boston programs though my initial list has places all across the country including Baltimore, Philly, DC, St. Louis, and Wisconsin. My school's advisors says to apply to 30-50 programs. Am I safe cutting it down to 20? 30? The goal is 10 interviews.

 

[youknoww]

4th year US MD student at state school.
Step 1: 235
Step 2 CK/ CS: 250 CK/ passed CS
School: State MD school
Class Rank: 3rd quartile
Grades in Clerkship: Honors in OB, High Pass in Psych, Pass in everything else; great psych LOR
AOA: no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: one publication as 3rd author (not psych-related) in the year prior to med school matriculation, played sports in undergrad, some volunteer work
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) none
Overview of where you want to end up: Looking at programs like Duke, UCLA, UCSD, UCSF, Stanford, MUSC, Yale, Harvard-Longwood...not sure how competitive some of those places are

 

[barzan]

Step 1: 240
Step 2 CK/ CS: 245, Passed ( First attempt)
School: IMG
Class Rank:
Grades in Clerkship: honors on my psychiatry rotation
AOA:none
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Research Fellowship for a year now, 4 submitted articles, one accepted, oral presentation at the APA and poster Presentation
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) YOG 2010, lack of USCE, IMG
Overview of where you want to end up: A strong program
Even though I started a thread previously but I thought I'd share my credentials again since I just received my ck score

 

[SmallBird]

Step 1: 240
Step 2 CK/ CS: 245, Passed ( First attempt)
School: IMG
Class Rank:
Grades in Clerkship: honors on my psychiatry rotation
AOA:none
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Research Fellowship for a year now, 4 submitted articles, one accepted, oral presentation at the APA and poster Presentation
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) YOG 2010, lack of USCE, IMG
Overview of where you want to end up: A strong program
Even though I started a thread previously but I thought I'd share my credentials again since I just received my ck score

Looks good - what about your LoR's? Given the lack of USCE, these will be important.

Is your research fellowship in the US?

 

[barzan]

Looks good - what about your LoR's? Given the lack of USCE, these will be important.

Is your research fellowship in the US?

Yup in the US and I got two LOR from this experience

 

[Dharma]

Also 4th year DO Student here.

COMLEX 1: 545
Step 1: 230
COMLEX 2: 520
USMLE step 2: 227
COMLEX PE (the osteo CS equivalent): Should have results by Sept 15th. Feel I passed.
School: CA DO school
Class Rank: 25th percentile
Grades in Clerkship: pass on my first one and surgery, honors in three including psych, high pass in all others. Additional elective in psych third year. Good comments and I assume letters. Mostly good rotations at teaching hospitals.
AOA: No
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Three pubs, two in a decent journal not psych related, one psych related in a throwaway, from work done just before entering school though the stuff was published during second year and I kept in touch helping write/update things. Elected position in our school's psych club first year. Random health fairs, attending conferences and stuff here and there. Long and documented interest in psych since undergrad.
Red Flags: No fails or deans office visits I'm the top of the bottom quartile in class rank. And there's that drop in step 2 scores.

I have a risk averse personality when applications are concerned and applied to way too many MD and DO schools first go around. My initial list on ERAS is almost 50 programs I'd be honored to attend and I don't want to repeat the mass applications if unneeded. I want to end up in a non NYC urban area with good psychopharm and biological psych and adequate psychotherapy opportunities. I've enjoyed community psych programs though the opportunity to do clinical, not bench, research is important to me. I really enjoyed the psych ER. I have strong ties to CA and Chicago and focused my apps on the urban west coast, Chicago, and Boston programs though my initial list has places all across the country including Baltimore, Philly, DC, St. Louis, and Wisconsin. My school's advisors says to apply to 30-50 programs. Am I safe cutting it down to 20? 30? The goal is 10 interviews.

Bump. That sounds like a lot of applications!

 

[Psych56]

Step 1: 219
Step 2 CK/ CS: 229, will take in December
School: Midwest Program
Class Rank: Probably bottom half
Grades in Clerkship: Passed
AOA: No
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 2 undergrad org chem publications, 1 undergrad cell & molec publication, paper currently being reviewed for publication (state specific mandatory reporting and guidelines for psychiatrists), currently working on a systematic review of criminal victimization and mental illness (would be first author). ECs include some volunteer work.
Red Flags: No, passed everything first attempt
Overview of where you want to end up: University of Colorado Program, Northwestern in Chicago (eek am I reaching for this one?), Other Chicago Programs ~4 of them, University of South Carolina, University of South Florida, Missouri U in Kansas City, Indiana U, Boston U, a NY program still trying to decide. I'm interested in a program with a Substance Abuse or Forensic Psychiatry Fellowship.

I have been told applying to ~14 programs and accepting about 8 of them would suffice??? Any advice is appreciated. Thank you.

 

[viinfiin]

Need advice, Californian at a Pennsylvania Med School. Want to know how my terrible scores fare overall and my chances of getting a residency in California?

Step 1: 207 (first try)
Step 2 CK/ CS: 211 (first try)
School: U.S. MD
Class Rank: Bottom Half
Grades in Clerkship: Passes, one high pass, one honors
AOA: nope
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 1 publication in medical school (second author), 2 publications in undergrad
Red Flags: (step failures, etc): Aside from my bad scores, Re-took a final for a block during second year, retook the Neurology shelf third year
Overview of where you want to end up: California ideally but also interested in finding out how my chances overall are

 

[MidwestMD2015]

Long time lurker, applying this year! I notice this thread is active but was started during last year's cycle. Should I go ahead and post here, or will there be an 'official' 2014-2015?

 

[VeggieCreamCheese]

Step 1: 229
Step 2 CK/ CS: 252/ CS pass 1st try
School: Carib IMG
Class Rank: Third Quartile
Grades in Clerkship: Honored Psych, pass/high passed the rest.
AOA: nope
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Worked as research assistant in psych hospital --> 1 publication. Some volunteer work, smaller psych research projects.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc)
Overview of where you want to end up: University program. Northeast is my dream, but I'm open to the East coast and some metropolitan areas in the Midwest. I've been looking at my school's past match lists, but any program suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you

 

[barzan]

Step 1: 229
Step 2 CK/ CS: 252/ CS pass 1st try
School: Carib IMG
Class Rank: Third Quartile
Grades in Clerkship: Honored Psych, pass/high passed the rest.
AOA: nope
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Worked as research assistant in psych hospital --> 1 publication. Some volunteer work, smaller psych research projects.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc)
Overview of where you want to end up: University program. Northeast is my dream, but I'm open to the East coast and some metropolitan areas in the Midwest. I've been looking at my school's past match lists, but any program suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you

Really Great scores

 

[nancysinatra]

We look for fit at our particular program, we look at how various people at our program feel about you from the interview and any rotations, we look at resilience and resolve to handle our challenging setting, we look at what others say about you in your letters, and then we add our gut - there could be something in your application that just rubs someone the wrong way. It's all a matter of taste, and scores just get you the interview. We would much rather have a group of well fit, hard working residents who are bright and personable than a bunch of 240+ step scores.

California programs have the luxury to be picky.

So a perfect set up for discrimination in all its forms, is what you're saying. You don't care about anything objective, just that old, reliable gut feeling.

About being bright and personable - yeah I bought that hook, line and sinker when I was applying in psych. And then I got in and learned that a lot of the time, it's just code for a high school level popularity contest. One year at my program, an older resident ran for chief. That resident was fantastic and would have been a great chief, and later went on to an excellent fellowship - likely on the basis of objective measures, which I'm sorry to say, include "scores." But they lost the chief position to someone better looking and younger and more "chipper," and I'm not going to comment on the job that person did as chief.

EDIT: I am just editing this post to clarify that I don't know of anyone in our field who would intentionally want to be discriminatory in any way, but, when admissions and promotions are based on gut feelings rather than objective factors, we are all just asking for it. Hasn't everyone here had times in your life where you met someone, thought they had an awesome personality, and later came to learn that all was not as it seemed? Or just got to know them better and realized that no, they are not perfect people? Why on earth would we trust admissions and advancement in our field to something as fleeting and unreliable as gut feeling?

Plus, how can you possible claim to know what kind of "resilience" your applicants have? However would you get that information from a residency application or interview?

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Everyone would rather take a resident who is a nice person over one that is a pain in the you know what. The problem is our lack of a pain in the you know what meter. Everyone can be well behaved during an hour interview, so we end up using scores more than we probably should. At least when we end up picking between a pain in the you know what with good scores vs a pain in the you know what with bad score, we end up with the one with good scores. This is a little tongue and cheek, most residents are hard working very nice people, but when they are not, at least it helps a little if they are smart.

 

[nancysinatra]

Everyone would rather take a resident who is a nice person over one that is a pain in the you know what. The problem is our lack of a pain in the you know what meter. Everyone can be well behaved during an hour interview, so we end up using scores more than we probably should. At least when we end up picking between a pain in the you know what with good scores vs a pain in the you know what with bad score, we end up with the one with good scores. This is a little tongue and cheek, most residents are hard working very nice people, but when they are not, at least it helps a little if they are smart.

Smart people can be reasoned with, and smart people, even if they're total jerks at heart, know it is their job to have a decent rapport with their patient so they can fake it. The complaints I get from patients about other providers fall into 2 main categories: the smart but arrogant subspecialist doctor across town whom they just "don't like," and the incompetent providers who not only do they "not like," but who, in addition, have screwed up their treatment. The worst, in my opinion, are the therapists who misinterpret what's going on in the patient's life and draw false conclusions. When I need to, I still refer patients to the arrogant subspecialist, but never to the incompetent therapists.

Psychiatry is about more than offering patients a caring smile and a box of kleenex. We also have to recognize neurological issues. I'm sorry, but all the empathy in the world won't diagnose an aggressive brain tumor that is presenting as psychosis. Empathy won't prevent lithium toxicity, or any other number of things that are part of our job.

 

[Cloud805]

Step 1: 199
Step 2 CK/ CS: Taking CK Late September and CS January
School: AMG
Class Rank: Bottom
Grades in Clerkship: HP Psych, Family Medicine, Neuro. Honored Sub-I. Passed everything else
AOA: nope
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Worked in summer lab. Did not get published. Book Review accepted. Recently submitted two papers. Received several travel and fellowship awards through medical school.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc)
Overview of where you want to end up: At a mid-tier program in a major city hopefully. Not sure which mid-tier programs to shoot for.

 

[letsgomedical]

What would be a minimum passing COMLEX score for acgme psych residency??

 

[Dharma]

What would be a minimum passing COMLEX score for acgme psych residency??

Passing is passing. Check out the newest PD survey to get an idea of if programs want to see passing or target scores. I think the most important thing is to demonstrate that you are truly fired up for psych (ie demonstrated genuine interest) and aren't just doing it bc of a low scores/grades and the subsequent relegation in the so-called non-competitive realms that follow for some. I'm just a student, but this is the sentiment I've seen expressed here time and time again. Apply far and wide. And no need to worry about what those cut off scores are... since the scores can't change.

 

[Dr.W]

I'm just wondering why you wouldn't apply at UT-Southwestern in Dallas? We have a Substance Abuse fellowship and quite a few electives in both forensics and addictions.

http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/educa...aining/residency-program/electives/index.html

~Dr.W

Step 1: 219
Step 2 CK/ CS: 229, will take in December
School: Midwest Program
Class Rank: Probably bottom half
Grades in Clerkship: Passed
AOA: No
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 2 undergrad org chem publications, 1 undergrad cell & molec publication, paper currently being reviewed for publication (state specific mandatory reporting and guidelines for psychiatrists), currently working on a systematic review of criminal victimization and mental illness (would be first author). ECs include some volunteer work.
Red Flags: No, passed everything first attempt
Overview of where you want to end up: University of Colorado Program, Northwestern in Chicago (eek am I reaching for this one?), Other Chicago Programs ~4 of them, University of South Carolina, University of South Florida, Missouri U in Kansas City, Indiana U, Boston U, a NY program still trying to decide. I'm interested in a program with a Substance Abuse or Forensic Psychiatry Fellowship.

I have been told applying to ~14 programs and accepting about 8 of them would suffice??? Any advice is appreciated. Thank you.

 

[Dr.W]

Apply everywhere, even reaches. You never know. Scores aren't everything.
~Dr.W

Step 1: 199
Step 2 CK/ CS: Taking CK Late September and CS January
School: AMG
Class Rank: Bottom
Grades in Clerkship: HP Psych, Family Medicine, Neuro. Honored Sub-I. Passed everything else
AOA: nope
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Worked in summer lab. Did not get published. Book Review accepted. Recently submitted two papers. Received several travel and fellowship awards through medical school.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc)
Overview of where you want to end up: At a mid-tier program in a major city hopefully. Not sure which mid-tier programs to shoot for.

 

[wannabie]

Hi, I'd appreciate any feedback and I hope to contribute more to this forum if I actually make it.

Step 1: 200
Step 2: 230, passed first try
School: IMG
Class Rank: No idea
Grades in Clerkship: Honored Family Medicine, 4's and 5's on everything else.
AOA: nope (no idea what this is)
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Worked in lab during undergrad. Did not get published. I read twenty to thirty books a year. Have written (and continue to write short stories and novels). 4.5 level tennis player. Brew my own beer. Wait, you meant medical extra curriculars, right? Oops, don't have any.
Red Flags: No name Caribbean school. Burnt out this year and took 3 months off.
Other: psych major in college..have a pretty good narrative for my personal statement.
Overview of where you want to end up: LITERALLY ANYWHERE THAT WILL TAKE ME. Gonna be applying EVERYWHERE.

 

[JohnBender]

.

 

[MidwestMD2015]

Thanks for advice, I'm excited to see what happens!

 

[Gyrene MD]

nvm

 

[SMC123]

Step 1: 475 Comlex (2nd attempt)
Step 2 CK/ CS: 468 Comlex.. PE in Oct
School: US top DO
Class Rank: Bottom of class (class rank not given)
Grades in Clerkship: Pass for everything
AOA: Yes
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 2 abstract, 1 presentation but nothing psych-related
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) Failed step 1 first attempt. One class failure in preclerkships. Took a year off due to family accident when I failed step 1
Overview of where you want to end up: I would just like to know if I have a shot of any programs in California, if so which ones. I will also be applying through the AOA match as I figure the step 1 failure may limit me.

 

[splik]

Step 1: 475 Comlex (2nd attempt)
Step 2 CK/ CS: 468 Comlex.. PE in Oct
School: US top DO
Class Rank: Bottom of class (class rank not given)
Grades in Clerkship: Pass for everything
AOA: Yes
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 2 abstract, 1 presentation but nothing psych-related
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) Failed step 1 first attempt. One class failure in preclerkships. Took a year off due to family accident when I failed step 1
Overview of where you want to end up: I would just like to know if I have a shot of any programs in California, if so which ones. I will also be applying through the AOA match as I figure the step 1 failure may limit me.

You could apply to the california programs in more grim locations like UCLA-Kern (but bakersfield really is depressing), UCSF-Fresno, Loma Linda, and the newer cali programs that are in less desirable locales. You may well get some interviews. That said based on what you have mentioned previously your chances of matching in or out of Cali through the allopathic match are low. Too many red/yellow flags (year out, failed preclinical class, failed step 1, lackluster step 2, poor performance of clinical rotations, poor attitude towards medicine/psychiatry, no redemption through away rotations). Neverthless, apply and see what happens. If you don't apply you have no chance, if you do apply you have next to no chance, which is still infinitely greater. Hopefully you have some strong LoRs but doesn't sound like it. When you interview please don't mention anything about not wanting to touch people or anything that makes it sound like you want to do psychiatry because your skills are too terrible to do anything else. You will need a letter from someone in IM/Peds etc ideally too.

 

[microshar88]

25 year old Asian American 4th year DO student just in the midst of applying. My spoken english is good if that matters at all. I think this is a field where communication should be good.

COMLEX Level 1: 468
COMLEX Level 2 CE (written exam): 409 & FAILED the HUMANISTIC DOMAIN Of the COMLEX PE Patient Encounter Exam (USMLE Step 2CS equivalent) in spite of passing all of my school's OSCE's and having every single OSCE comment on my great interpersonal skills. RETAKING in OCT with DECEMBER RESULTS.
USMLE STEP 2CK: contemplating taking it but don't know for sure. I'm not going to blow it out of the water. But since I've already paid for it, can I take it after apps are done? God forbid I fail it, I don't want the programs I'm applying to to find out.
School: DO school in Southwest US
Class Rank: Low
Grades in Clerkship: Average, did above average in psych though if that counts
AOA: No
Red Flags: never failed any class, never did anything illegal, but dropped 60 points on my COMLEX and I have a fail on my PE. Also, absence of USMLE's.
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: nothing spectacular at all. I did do some free clinic volunteering but nothing psych related. Psych member club if that counts? I also was a babysitter for some time to earn some extra cash. My mother was mentally ill throughout her life and my brother has Autism spectrum disorder, my 16 year old sister ran away from home, so I've had a lot of family stress. I don't see any point mentioning it in my PS since no one will really care and think I'm just trying to sweeten my app too forgive my poor grades and board scores. It really is a misery living with someone who is mentally ill and watching my little brother go through that hell. But I just wanted to push myself to study for his sake. Enough of that though, the only research I have no publication is a research project back in my college days (2009) that dealt with orthopedic oncology.
Other: I'm doing an away rotation at a new residency program the only reason I'm doing it is because it is new and I thought I might have a chance with an audition and because its close to home.
Overview of where you want to end up: In spite of my low scores and low class ranking. I have a particular interest and did very well in psychopharmacology. I love learning about the ways that the different drugs interact. I know that's very generic, but I might want to academic medicine one day. I would like to end up at the program where I can get the best training, but I am also not too keen on leaving California if I don't have to. At any rate, the best program I can get into that would provide me with a good foundation is something I look forward to. Trust me when I tell you I'm the most boring person you'll ever meet with regards to having fun. I'm ok with living in Bakersfield or the scorching heat of Arizona/Nevada. All I need is a Walmar & a grocery not 20 miles away and I'm happy. I'm honestly a nice person to talk to but I don't enjoy doing much aside from studying, sleeping, eating. Due to living in a conservative asian household, alcohol and partying was never really allowed and to be quite honest, I've never been one for the night life.

I apologize for the lengthy response. I just feel so devastated as I found this week I failed the COMLEX PE and I also found out how much my COMLEX 2CE dropped (after I spent a substantial amount of time preparing for it--which could have been devoted to making my EC's or doing audition rotations). A part of me is feeling slightly exhausted and wants to throw in the towel, take a 2 month vacation, study for USMLE step 1 and 2. Then apply. But I know that would be foolish since I have no reason not to finish on time and my loans would only accrue more interest.

How many programs should I apply to? I've heard some people say Iowa and Hawaii have good programs? I've also heard that Visalia and University of New Mexico is good.

 

[splik]

25 year old Asian American 4th year DO student just in the midst of applying. My spoken english is good if that matters at all. I think this is a field where communication should be good.

COMLEX Level 1: 468
COMLEX Level 2 CE (written exam): 409 & FAILED the HUMANISTIC DOMAIN Of the COMLEX PE Patient Encounter Exam (USMLE Step 2CS equivalent) in spite of passing all of my school's OSCE's and having every single OSCE comment on my great interpersonal skills. RETAKING in OCT with DECEMBER RESULTS.
USMLE STEP 2CK: contemplating taking it but don't know for sure. I'm not going to blow it out of the water. But since I've already paid for it, can I take it after apps are done? God forbid I fail it, I don't want the programs I'm applying to to find out.
School: DO school in Southwest US
Class Rank: Low
Grades in Clerkship: Average, did above average in psych though if that counts
AOA: No
Red Flags: never failed any class, never did anything illegal, but dropped 60 points on my COMLEX and I have a fail on my PE. Also, absence of USMLE's.
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: nothing spectacular at all. I did do some free clinic volunteering but nothing psych related. Psych member club if that counts? I also was a babysitter for some time to earn some extra cash. My mother was mentally ill throughout her life and my brother has Autism spectrum disorder, my 16 year old sister ran away from home, so I've had a lot of family stress. I don't see any point mentioning it in my PS since no one will really care and think I'm just trying to sweeten my app too forgive my poor grades and board scores. It really is a misery living with someone who is mentally ill and watching my little brother go through that hell. But I just wanted to push myself to study for his sake. Enough of that though, the only research I have no publication is a research project back in my college days (2009) that dealt with orthopedic oncology.
Other: I'm doing an away rotation at a new residency program the only reason I'm doing it is because it is new and I thought I might have a chance with an audition and because its close to home.
Overview of where you want to end up: In spite of my low scores and low class ranking. I have a particular interest and did very well in psychopharmacology. I love learning about the ways that the different drugs interact. I know that's very generic, but I might want to academic medicine one day. I would like to end up at the program where I can get the best training, but I am also not too keen on leaving California if I don't have to. At any rate, the best program I can get into that would provide me with a good foundation is something I look forward to. Trust me when I tell you I'm the most boring person you'll ever meet with regards to having fun. I'm ok with living in Bakersfield or the scorching heat of Arizona/Nevada. All I need is a Walmar & a grocery not 20 miles away and I'm happy. I'm honestly a nice person to talk to but I don't enjoy doing much aside from studying, sleeping, eating. Due to living in a conservative asian household, alcohol and partying was never really allowed and to be quite honest, I've never been one for the night life.

Given your poor COMLEX scores I would strongly discourage you from taking the USMLEs. At worst you could fail and further hurt your application, and and best it is unlikely to make a significant difference in your favor. The sorts of programs that expect the USMLEs from DOs are not the kinds of programs that would interview you anyway. I would suggest applying to about 40-50 programs that are in undesirable locations. Hopefully you will do well on this away rotation and have strong LoRs. you say you are boring which I doubt is the case, but if it is, that will also work against you in the interviews. please tell me you didn't put babysitter on your ERAS application. It is okay not to mention the family stuff (personally I would have avoided it too) but hopefully you have made a compelling case for psych. Not sure how many people are applying to psych but as there are increasing numbers of allopathic grads, it is going to get harder and your poor scores and failure will certainly hurt you.

 

[microshar88]

Given your poor COMLEX scores I would strongly discourage you from taking the USMLEs. At worst you could fail and further hurt your application, and and best it is unlikely to make a significant difference in your favor. The sorts of programs that expect the USMLEs from DOs are not the kinds of programs that would interview you anyway. I would suggest applying to about 40-50 programs that are in undesirable locations. Hopefully you will do well on this away rotation and have strong LoRs. you say you are boring which I doubt is the case, but if it is, that will also work against you in the interviews. please tell me you didn't put babysitter on your ERAS application. It is okay not to mention the family stuff (personally I would have avoided it too) but hopefully you have made a compelling case for psych. Not sure how many people are applying to psych but as there are increasing numbers of allopathic grads, it is going to get harder and your poor scores and failure will certainly hurt you.

Oh yes, I definitely didn't put anything related to the babysitter stuff in my ERAS.

I have 2 strong LOR's from preceptors who are not-psych. I also have my psych doc sending one in.

But I have 2 from an IM and FM doc that liked me just to get the ball rolling. Are there any specific "undesirable locations" you suggest?

I'm not a very independent learner so I would value a program with good didactics as well.

 

[splik]

Oh yes, I definitely didn't put anything related to the babysitter stuff in my ERAS.

I have 2 strong LOR's from preceptors who are not-psych. I also have my psych doc sending one in.

But I have 2 from an IM and FM doc that liked me just to get the ball rolling. Are there any specific "undesirable locations" you suggest?

I'm not a very independent learner so I would value a program with good didactics as well.

Well I think 99% of this country is undesirable so I'm sure I will offend someone. but in cali think UCLA-Kern, UCSF-Fresno, Kaweah Delta, Loma Linda (a bit more desirable than the other places). You can do your own homework for other programs outside of cali.

and you're going to have to be an independent learner. sorry didactics aren't going to be much of help. they might be nice and stuff but are not going to turn your into a good psychiatrist. seeing a ton of patients, having good supervision, discussing cases and having your psychotherapy skills observed, and doing a ton of reading on other hand just might.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

25 year old Asian American 4th year DO student just in the midst of applying. My spoken english is good if that matters at all. I think this is a field where communication should be good.

COMLEX Level 1: 468
COMLEX Level 2 CE (written exam): 409 & FAILED the HUMANISTIC DOMAIN Of the COMLEX PE Patient Encounter Exam (USMLE Step 2CS equivalent) in spite of passing all of my school's OSCE's and having every single OSCE comment on my great interpersonal skills. RETAKING in OCT with DECEMBER RESULTS.
USMLE STEP 2CK: contemplating taking it but don't know for sure. I'm not going to blow it out of the water. But since I've already paid for it, can I take it after apps are done? God forbid I fail it, I don't want the programs I'm applying to to find out.
School: DO school in Southwest US
Class Rank: Low
Grades in Clerkship: Average, did above average in psych though if that counts
AOA: No
Red Flags: never failed any class, never did anything illegal, but dropped 60 points on my COMLEX and I have a fail on my PE. Also, absence of USMLE's.
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: nothing spectacular at all. I did do some free clinic volunteering but nothing psych related. Psych member club if that counts? I also was a babysitter for some time to earn some extra cash. My mother was mentally ill throughout her life and my brother has Autism spectrum disorder, my 16 year old sister ran away from home, so I've had a lot of family stress. I don't see any point mentioning it in my PS since no one will really care and think I'm just trying to sweeten my app too forgive my poor grades and board scores. It really is a misery living with someone who is mentally ill and watching my little brother go through that hell. But I just wanted to push myself to study for his sake. Enough of that though, the only research I have no publication is a research project back in my college days (2009) that dealt with orthopedic oncology.
Other: I'm doing an away rotation at a new residency program the only reason I'm doing it is because it is new and I thought I might have a chance with an audition and because its close to home.
Overview of where you want to end up: In spite of my low scores and low class ranking. I have a particular interest and did very well in psychopharmacology. I love learning about the ways that the different drugs interact. I know that's very generic, but I might want to academic medicine one day. I would like to end up at the program where I can get the best training, but I am also not too keen on leaving California if I don't have to. At any rate, the best program I can get into that would provide me with a good foundation is something I look forward to. Trust me when I tell you I'm the most boring person you'll ever meet with regards to having fun. I'm ok with living in Bakersfield or the scorching heat of Arizona/Nevada. All I need is a Walmar & a grocery not 20 miles away and I'm happy. I'm honestly a nice person to talk to but I don't enjoy doing much aside from studying, sleeping, eating. Due to living in a conservative asian household, alcohol and partying was never really allowed and to be quite honest, I've never been one for the night life.

I apologize for the lengthy response. I just feel so devastated as I found this week I failed the COMLEX PE and I also found out how much my COMLEX 2CE dropped (after I spent a substantial amount of time preparing for it--which could have been devoted to making my EC's or doing audition rotations). A part of me is feeling slightly exhausted and wants to throw in the towel, take a 2 month vacation, study for USMLE step 1 and 2. Then apply. But I know that would be foolish since I have no reason not to finish on time and my loans would only accrue more interest.

How many programs should I apply to? I've heard some people say Iowa and Hawaii have good programs? I've also heard that Visalia and University of New Mexico is good.

Personally if I were in your shoes I'd be applying broadly for AOA spots as well.

 

[notdeadyet]

For California, the least competitive programs are going to be furthest from the coast. The only exception I can think of would be UC Davis.

For planning purposes, this is how I would rank them as follows in terms of competitiveness. This is NOT any kind of indication of quality. This has to do with what things would look like if you looked at # of AOA, MD/PhDs, Step scores, class rank, etc. This is only to help applicants with application purposes.

It's also worth noting that some programs are selective on different grounds. For instance, there are great programs that are almost entirely county-based that often choose folks with less competitive numbers for the sake of fulfilling their mission and more "competitive" applicants might be left scratching their head and wondering why they never interviewed/matched (UCLA Harbor and San Mateo Co are great programs that come to mind).

A last thing to keep in mind is that none of these programs are bad, to my knowledge. California has pretty good quality control. The only one I couldn't say that about would be KDHCD, and that's only because it's so brand spanking new that it's hard to consider it having a reputation yet.

MOST COMPETITIVE:
UCSF
UCLA- NPI

VERY COMPETITIVE:
Stanford

COMPETITIVE:
UCLA- Harbor
UC San Diego
San Mateo Co
UC Davis

LESS COMPETITIVE:
USC
UCSF Fresno
UCI
CPMC
UCLA-San Fernando Valley

LEAST COMPETITIVE:
Kaweah Delta HCD (Visalia, CA)
Kiaser Permanente SoCal (Fontana, CA)
UC Riverside
UCLA-Kern
Loma Linda

 

[microshar88]

Thanks for the lists guys. I was wondering what you guys would suggest in terms of good AOA places? Are there any with dual accreditation you would consider applying to?

Thanks

 

[SMC123]

theres only like ten aoa programs ..apply one apply ten they all cost the same

 

[microshar88]

theres only like ten aoa programs ..apply one apply ten they all cost the same

10? I checked opportunities, and it was like 20. maybe im checking wrong. i'm just a little weary of applying to AOA because of the risk of the program shutting down. ACGME is more forgiving on that front.

But beggars can't be choosers I suppose.

 

[rkaz]

10? I checked opportunities, and it was like 20. maybe im checking wrong. i'm just a little weary of applying to AOA because of the risk of the program shutting down. ACGME is more forgiving on that front.

But beggars can't be choosers I suppose.

I would encourage you to apply to all of the Arizona and Nevada ACGME programs, as they are less competitive and still closer to home for you.

 

[microshar88]

I would encourage you to apply to all of the Arizona and Nevada ACGME programs, as they are less competitive and still closer to home for you.

Thanks, I did apply to them. Just playing the waiting game while I'm auditioining. I haven't had an invite yet but I was wondering if you guys think its ok, if I do get an interview, to contact a program I live near and let them know I'm interested.

If I do get an interview, and have to travel to a state far away, is it ok for me to contact other programs in the vicinity and let them know that I'm in the area and still interested in a position.

My guess the reason I'm not getting any activity is because nobody wants to entertain someone who failed the COMLEX PE humanistic domain especially in a specialty like psychiatry where people skills and communication skills are extremely important.

I wish I could change their perception about me. I have no clue why I failed the PE when my OSCE's and Preceptor comments speak volumes about my compassionate and friendly personality. My interpersonal skills were always in the 90's. I'm honestly thinking that this red flag is going to send me to the SOAP as my retake won't be in till Jan.

I also feel awful because the place where I'm auditioning at says they prefer USMLE and I should take that. When I scheduled the audition, they were happy with my passing COMLEX 1 and said good job on passing first try. They said"we have no cutoff score but we take COMLEX &prefer you pass first time."

 

[NotTheBestUSMLE]

This is a bit early, I'll be applying next year, but I'd like to hear what people think.

Step 1: <<200 (barely passed)
Step 2 CK/ CS: mid 230's
School: "Top 3" MD
Class Rank: Bottom.
Grades in Clerkship: (H/HP/P/F system) A mixture of pass and high pass. Pass in psych--mostly due to shelf score, but that's not explicitly written on my eval. Pass in medicine. High Pass Neuro. I have the opportunity to do several advanced clerkships before application.
AOA: No.
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Will have at least one publication submitted, hopefully published, by time of match (doing a research year.)
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) No step failures, but that step 1 score is seriously low, plus the pass in med and psych. Nothing frankly negative that will go on deans letter, but a few sideways comments that could be bad "improved with direction" etc.
Overview of where you want to end up: This is why I'm posting. I'd like to be somewhere warm and sunny (CA, TX, GA) or at least sunny (CO, UT). I do have some interest in continuing my research (a large university program with a good EMR/data system would be nice). I'd really like to end up somewhere with strong CL/Emergency psych experience.

Any advice in addition to "crush upcoming rotations" and "get your stuff published ++ good LOR's"?

The other thing I'm curious about is disclosing the medical issues I was having 1st/2nd/part of 3rd year. How specific to be, whether it will really matter, put it on Personal Statement or only talk about it in interviews. It's managed at this point and shouldn't affect my ability to be a resident.

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

This is a bit early, I'll be applying next year, but I'd like to hear what people think.

Step 1: <<200 (barely passed)
Step 2 CK/ CS: mid 230's
School: "Top 3" MD
Class Rank: Bottom.
Grades in Clerkship: (H/HP/P/F system) A mixture of pass and high pass. Pass in psych--mostly due to shelf score, but that's not explicitly written on my eval. Pass in medicine. High Pass Neuro. I have the opportunity to do several advanced clerkships before application.
AOA: No.
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Will have at least one publication submitted, hopefully published, by time of match (doing a research year.)
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) No step failures, but that step 1 score is seriously low, plus the pass in med and psych. Nothing frankly negative that will go on deans letter, but a few sideways comments that could be bad "improved with direction" etc.
Overview of where you want to end up: This is why I'm posting. I'd like to be somewhere warm and sunny (CA, TX, GA) or at least sunny (CO, UT). I do have some interest in continuing my research (a large university program with a good EMR/data system would be nice). I'd really like to end up somewhere with strong CL/Emergency psych experience.

Any advice in addition to "crush upcoming rotations" and "get your stuff published ++ good LOR's"?

The other thing I'm curious about is disclosing the medical issues I was having 1st/2nd/part of 3rd year. How specific to be, whether it will really matter, put it on Personal Statement or only talk about it in interviews. It's managed at this point and shouldn't affect my ability to be a resident.

Unless you're close friends with Marty McFly your chances of matching into last year's match is pretty slim.

 

[NotTheBestUSMLE]

Unless you're close friends with Marty McFly your chances of matching into last year's match is pretty slim.

... the first line of my post was literally "I'll be applying next year." There's no 14-15 (or 15-16) WAMC thread AFAICT.

 

[splik]

This is a bit early, I'll be applying next year, but I'd like to hear what people think.

Step 1: <<200 (barely passed)
Step 2 CK/ CS: mid 230's
School: "Top 3" MD
Class Rank: Bottom.
Grades in Clerkship: (H/HP/P/F system) A mixture of pass and high pass. Pass in psych--mostly due to shelf score, but that's not explicitly written on my eval. Pass in medicine. High Pass Neuro. I have the opportunity to do several advanced clerkships before application.
AOA: No.
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Will have at least one publication submitted, hopefully published, by time of match (doing a research year.)
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) No step failures, but that step 1 score is seriously low, plus the pass in med and psych. Nothing frankly negative that will go on deans letter, but a few sideways comments that could be bad "improved with direction" etc.
Overview of where you want to end up: This is why I'm posting. I'd like to be somewhere warm and sunny (CA, TX, GA) or at least sunny (CO, UT). I do have some interest in continuing my research (a large university program with a good EMR/data system would be nice). I'd really like to end up somewhere with strong CL/Emergency psych experience.

Any advice in addition to "crush upcoming rotations" and "get your stuff published ++ good LOR's"?

The other thing I'm curious about is disclosing the medical issues I was having 1st/2nd/part of 3rd year. How specific to be, whether it will really matter, put it on Personal Statement or only talk about it in interviews. It's managed at this point and shouldn't affect my ability to be a resident.

The good news is you apparently go to a top medical school and have an nice average step 2 score which will go a long way to redeeming that crappy step 1. put simply, many places will be willing to overlook it. make sure you have passed CS before applying if you haven't already. not sure what school you go to but at most top schools there is horrendous grade inflation so a pass on rotations would be considered more negatively than places where it is usual for a good amount of people to just pass. Unfortunately no one cares about how you do on psych electives as a 4th year as I have never seen someone not honor their psych electives (again horrendous grade inflation) but it would be a red flag if you didn't. you need to get very strong letters of recommendation and also show a strong commitment and interest to psychiatry so people don't think you're just applying because of your crappy step 1. also you need to find what your edge is - be this in leadership, advocacy, teaching, research, public service, engagement and cultivate this.

I don't see why you couldn't match somewhere sunny. the most competitive programs like UCSF and UCLA are most likely out of reach, probably stanford too. People are going to assume your illness was mental (and psychiatrists are the most stigmatizing about this in my experience sadly) unless otherwise stated. also that you said "shouldn't affect" means it's still something that is there and will make you less attractive. unless you have to explain absences or are asking for reasonable adjustments I would not mention any health problems. That will kill your application more than anything else. If you are unable to leave this off your app (because of having to explain failures, time off) then you are at risk of not matching if you don't apply broadly. also its really hard to say about next year's match as depends on how good the other applicants are.

 

[Armadillos]

This is a bit early, I'll be applying next year, but I'd like to hear what people think.

Step 1: <<200 (barely passed)
Step 2 CK/ CS: mid 230's
School: "Top 3" MD
Class Rank: Bottom.
Grades in Clerkship: (H/HP/P/F system) A mixture of pass and high pass. Pass in psych--mostly due to shelf score, but that's not explicitly written on my eval. Pass in medicine. High Pass Neuro. I have the opportunity to do several advanced clerkships before application.
AOA: No.
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: Will have at least one publication submitted, hopefully published, by time of match (doing a research year.)
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) No step failures, but that step 1 score is seriously low, plus the pass in med and psych. Nothing frankly negative that will go on deans letter, but a few sideways comments that could be bad "improved with direction" etc.
Overview of where you want to end up: This is why I'm posting. I'd like to be somewhere warm and sunny (CA, TX, GA) or at least sunny (CO, UT). I do have some interest in continuing my research (a large university program with a good EMR/data system would be nice). I'd really like to end up somewhere with strong CL/Emergency psych experience.

Any advice in addition to "crush upcoming rotations" and "get your stuff published ++ good LOR's"?

The other thing I'm curious about is disclosing the medical issues I was having 1st/2nd/part of 3rd year. How specific to be, whether it will really matter, put it on Personal Statement or only talk about it in interviews. It's managed at this point and shouldn't affect my ability to be a resident.

More than most applicants I would advise you to apply really broadly, in some interviewers eyes being from harvard or wherever may gloss over some board scores, but for others it will make them wonder the reason for the huge inconsistency. So I suspect once you get some invites you will be surprised at some that chose ton interview and also surprised at some that rejected you.

As for your illness, I would definitely get advice from people who know the situation, because if you approach it wrong it could seriously hurt your app. As mentioned above people will probably assume its a mood disorder or substance use if you don't specify, but you need advice from people who know you about how to approach this situation. Seems like an ideal situation for the dean of students or similar to help you with.

If your illness is a sleep dependent one like mood or migraines I would seriously look into South Carolina palmetto- they are in a warm place and never have overnight call.

 

[NotTheBestUSMLE]

Edit: Sorry, the top side of my reply got cut off.

Thanks to you both for the great advice. I'll make sure to take/pass CS before app.

Hopefully I have some cool stuff. Unfortunately, I'm not the "humanities undergrad who went into med school to do psych after working as a MH volunteer in Africa for 3 years." person. (Or anything close to that. Fell in love with psych during my third year rotation.)

I guess this is a more generic question, but do you have any tips for getting good LOR's in a specialty where you don't really have any connections? My PI isn't Psych and it was one of my very first rotations in 3rd year, so the old contacts are cold.

I don't see why you couldn't match somewhere sunny. the most competitive programs like UCSF and UCLA are most likely out of reach, probably stanford too. People are going to assume your illness was mental (and psychiatrists are the most stigmatizing about this in my experience sadly) unless otherwise stated. also that you said "shouldn't affect" means Tis still something that is there and will make you less attractive. unless you have to explain absences or are asking for reasonable adjustments I would not mention any health problems. That will kill your application more than anything else. If you are unable to leave this off your app (because of having to explain failures, time off) then you are at risk of not matching if you don't apply broadly. also its really hard to say about next year's match as depends on how good the other applicants are.

No psych/mood d/o or SA; no failures. Some people seemed to be of the opinion that mentioning it would be useful for explaining away early low performance, but the unfortunate reality of continued low performance didn't meet some other people's expectations that I'd suddenly be "average" after getting appropriate dx + tx. (people who did well in med school don't always appreciate how important the first two years are to doing well in third year)

More than most applicants I would advise you to apply really broadly, in some interviewers eyes being from harvard or wherever may gloss over some board scores, but for others it will make them wonder the reason for the huge inconsistency. So I suspect once you get some invites you will be surprised at some that chose ton interview and also surprised at some that rejected you.

As for your illness, I would definitely get advice from people who know the situation, because if you approach it wrong it could seriously hurt your app. As mentioned above people will probably assume its a mood disorder or substance use if you don't specify, but you need advice from people who know you about how to approach this situation. Seems like an ideal situation for the dean of students or similar to help you with.

If your illness is a sleep dependent one like mood or migraines I would seriously look into South Carolina palmetto- they are in a warm place and never have overnight call.

That's some great insight/suggestions, thanks!

 

[DrMeowMeow]

.

 

[Freddie Mercury]

Hey all, I finished my psych rotation a few weeks ago and enjoyed it a ton, its now my #1 choice. I've perused some of the threads here to try to gauge what to look for residency, what they look for etc, but this is all new to me since up till now I thought I was going into a surgical specialty haha. Oh well here goes:

Step 1: low 250's
Step 2 CK/ CS: haven't taken yet
School: Lower tier US-MD
Class Rank: top 25%
Grades in Clerkship: Half honors, half high-pass (psych honors)
AOA: Probably not.
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 1 first author (not psych/neuro), no other ECs.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) None
Overview of where you want to end up: Preferably socal. I did read the thread where one of the residents (attendings?) ranked the socal residencies, and it seems like UCLA Harbor, SFV offer great training for community practice (UCLA-NPI is awesome too but seems more research focused, which isn't my interest)

Thanks!

 

[Asklepian]

Hey all, I finished my psych rotation a few weeks ago and enjoyed it a ton, its now my #1 choice. I've perused some of the threads here to try to gauge what to look for residency, what they look for etc, but this is all new to me since up till now I thought I was going into a surgical specialty haha. Oh well here goes:

Step 1: low 250's
Step 2 CK/ CS: haven't taken yet
School: Lower tier US-MD
Class Rank: top 25%
Grades in Clerkship: Half honors, half high-pass (psych honors)
AOA: Probably not.
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: 1 first author (not psych/neuro), no other ECs.
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) None
Overview of where you want to end up: Preferably socal. I did read the thread where one of the residents (attendings?) ranked the socal residencies, and it seems like UCLA Harbor, SFV offer great training for community practice (UCLA-NPI is awesome too but seems more research focused, which isn't my interest)

Thanks!

All of SoCal should be easily within your grasp. Some other options to consider are UCSD, UCI, and USC.

 

[Freddie Mercury]

All of SoCal should be easily within your grasp. Some other options to consider are UCSD, UCI, and USC.

Awesome, thanks. Yeah I'm probably gonna apply to most, if not all the SoCal schools, even the "lower tier" ones like LLU, Fresno, and it looks like UCR has a new psych residency. Unless the training/job prospects there are poor.

 

[notdeadyet]

Awesome, thanks. Yeah I'm probably gonna apply to most, if not all the SoCal schools, even the "lower tier" ones like LLU, Fresno, and it looks like UCR has a new psych residency.

With your stats, you'll likely get interviews at all.

Definitely don't avoid UCLA-NPI because of their strength in research. At even the strongest research programs, only a minority of residents are actually involved in research. The rest just reap the benefits of the current findings and latest techniques.

 

[psych100]

I will be applying during the next cycle.
Step 1: 190
Step 2 CK/ CS: 230s (on 2nd try)
School: mid-tier US-MD
Class Rank: mid-bottom
Grades in Clerkship: HP in psych and mostly pass otherwise
AOA: no
Research/ Publications/ Extracurriculars: should be published in psych by time of application
Red Flags: (step failures, etc) besides the struggles with the step exams I also took a year off for personal reasons. However LOR and deans letter are all great.
Overview of where you want to end up: I would like to end up in a decent program in midwest and will be doing away rotations in some of the programs I'm interested in. What do you guys think my chances are overall and any tips on improving them.