Official 2015 Rank Order List and "Help me rank" thread

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OldPsychDoc said:
These are all decent to excellent academic programs, but the ones in bold are the best bets for opportunities in basic research and mentorship toward independent funding.
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Ditto this. I know UCSF is particularly strong in Psychosis research.


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SmallBird said:
Given your well-defined goal, I would strongly consider Yale, as it is just an excellent place to start that type of career. In addition to having the most NIH funding for a psychiatry program in 2014, there are many internal funding opportunities for faculty and residents, including an abundance of grants to provide people with protected time, and other endowments like the Detre Fellowship (3 or 4 awards of $30 000 for resident research). I think I will have published about 18 papers during my residency at Yale and I have excellent mentorship, protected time, and financial support to thank for that.
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dang.jpg
 
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Thanks for the advice OldPsychDoc, SmallBird, and notdeadyet! ;)

Do either of you or does anyone else have particularly strong feelings on differences between Yale and Pittsburgh? Both seem like great programs, both with strong research opportunities...
 
nilesMD said:
Thanks for the advice OldPsychDoc, SmallBird, and notdeadyet! ;)

Do either of you or does anyone else have particularly strong feelings on differences between Yale and Pittsburgh? Both seem like great programs, both with strong research opportunities...
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I don't know about tangible differences in the adult programs but if you are interested in Child Psych research as you suggested I would imagine that Yale has a somewhat larger research enterprise in this regard, with just the Child Study Center having around $20 million in NIH funding. These types of things are perhaps not important considerations for most applicants but they absolutely are relevant given your stated aims.
 
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Thanks SmallBird, you've given me some great advice and a lot to think about.
 
SmallBird said:
Given your well-defined goal, I would strongly consider Yale, as it is just an excellent place to start that type of career. In addition to having the most NIH funding for a psychiatry program in 2014, there are many internal funding opportunities for faculty and residents, including an abundance of grants to provide people with protected time, and other endowments like the Detre Fellowship (3 or 4 awards of $30 000 for resident research). I think I will have published about 18 papers during my residency at Yale and I have excellent mentorship, protected time, and financial support to thank for that.
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I'm curious. You will have? I see 6 papers indexed on PubMed, on one of which you're a first author. Are you saying you'll be publishing 12 more in the next year and a half?
 
psychiatry4me said:
Appreciate any insight. Looking to have strong training in Psychotherapy and to follow residency with Child Psychiatry. I am also very interested in academics, particularly more clinical and community based research. Want a great program director and mentors, happy residents, and do not mind working hard. Just want excellent training in a setting that is more patient centered and not as much pushing psychopharm or being too biological.

In no particular order, interviewed at

Cornell
Univ of Pennsylvania
Stanford
Univ of Pittsburgh / WPIC
UTSW
UCLA
Harbor-UCLA
Cal Pacific
UCLA- SFV
USC
UC San Diego
Univ of Colorado

Interviewed at but not ranking since husband's work won't allow for job transfer (super sad since all of these programs are amazing) Just FYI, prior to interview, my husband's work had said these cities would be available for transfer, but have since taken back their word.
-MGH, Yale, UW, Univ New Mexico, Vanderbilt
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I'm only commenting on the Cali programs from what I know. If you know you want to stay in academics, then I advise a big name program simply because it actually matters in academia. Stanford, UCLA, UCSF, and UCSD would be at the top of your list. Of these, UCSF and UCLA have the strongest community based research. Let's pretend you don't want an academic career and you told me you dislike egos and hierarchy, it's all about clinical exposure and community work. Then I'd shoot UCLA-Harbor and UCLA-SFV to the top of the list. Harbor and SFV have strong morale among residents with great leadership, and you're going to see more patients there than at the other Cali programs. Since I can't say the same for USC at the moment, I can't recommend it. UCSD does teach therapy but it's culture is rooted in psychopharm.

Looking at it from the Child Psych prep standpoint, I would say pick among these for training: Stanford, UCLA, UCLA-Harbor, UCSF, and UCSD. I know residents from these programs who landed top spots for C&A where you see the likes of MGH and Cornell graduates going.

Hope that helps and good luck! At Stanford, UCLA, UCLA-Harbor, UCSF, and UCSD you're going to get super training, just with different flavors and shades of gray, and if you're lucky to meet someone into fifty shades of gray then just be careful... heh heh my movie reference.
 
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psychiatry4me said:
I would be grateful for any insight and thoughts on my top 4, as I want to do Child after and also do academic clinical research and teaching. Want happy residents, compassionate and kind faculty, excellent training, strong psychotherapy training and be ready for anything after residency

University of Pennsylvania
Stanford
Cornell
UCLA

Thank you ! !
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I can vouch for four out of your five wants with Cornell. ;) Being ready for anything is totally dependent on what you put into the training. Most programs would have you train in all the common settings.

I don't have a personal experience with UCLA, but from what I've heard, I'm fairly certain it would rank above UPenn and Stanford.
 
Stanford has a world renown Child fellowship, which means your best shot of getting in would be going to Stanford for residency. UCLA has the better residency program, but not the better Child fellowship. So if you're sold on Child, I'd rank Stanford higher for simply this reason.
 
notdeadyet said:
Ditto this. I know UCSF is particularly strong in Psychosis research.


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UCSD has had leaders in schizophrenia research and in basic science research pertinent to psychiatry.
 
slappy said:
I'm curious. You will have? I see 6 papers indexed on PubMed, on one of which you're a first author. Are you saying you'll be publishing 12 more in the next year and a half?
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Well I see more on pubmed (can't account for how you our searching my name!), and beyond that about 1/3 are in press, 1/3 under review, and 1/3 I'm anticipating finishing in the next 6 to 12 months. But I really don't want this to be a focus of this thread - I know that my post was honest and yet I'm not planning on posting PDF's of my work on the SDN forum, so I will leave it at that!
 
SmallBird said:
Well I see more on pubmed (can't account for how you our searching my name!), and beyond that about 1/3 are in press, 1/3 under review, and 1/3 I'm anticipating finishing in the next 6 to 12 months. But I really don't want this to be a focus of this thread - I know that my post was honest and yet I'm not planning on posting PDF's of my work on the SDN forum, so I will leave it at that!
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Oh no, I didn't mean it that way at all. Sorry. I was just curious how you're going to be able to publish so much in such a short time.
 
slappy said:
Oh no, I didn't mean it that way at all. Sorry. I was just curious how you're going to be able to publish so much in such a short time.
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Gotcha, no problem bud.

And OPD has it right as usual...
 
Hi everyone,

Thoughts on the following program would be really appreciated. In alphabetical order:

HSS
Maryland
Mayo
Vermont
WashU

I am interested in research and would like to have a career in academic psychiatry. How would you compare them in terms of quality of training, reputation, research focus, etc.
 
renningen said:
Hi everyone,

Thoughts on the following program would be really appreciated. In alphabetical order:

HSS
Maryland
Mayo
Vermont
WashU

I am interested in research and would like to have a career in academic psychiatry. How would you compare them in terms of quality of training, reputation, research focus, etc.
Click to expand...

They're all mid-range programs. Take your pick / Go with your gut / Toss some coins. You'll likely be able to publish more at WashU & Mayo than at Maryland - the former are comparatively less work-intensive, and have more active research going on.
 
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renningen said:
Hi everyone,

Thoughts on the following program would be really appreciated. In alphabetical order:

HSS
Maryland
Mayo
Vermont
WashU

I am interested in research and would like to have a career in academic psychiatry. How would you compare them in terms of quality of training, reputation, research focus, etc.
Click to expand...

I had HSS, Mayo, and WashU at the top of my list before I started my interview season. I ended up ranking WashU #1, Mayo #2, and HSS was down around 6 or so. I actually had the same sorts of interests as you, and I debated extensively what to rank at the top (some of which is public).

In retrospect, I spent too much time debating... WashU should have been an easy top choice for me. One major reason for this is that WashU really likes to hire their own as faculty members, so you are very likely to get an academic job if you want it here. The culture is also very friendly to people interested in doing whatever is on the cutting edge, whether that's on a research or a clinical level.

I'm sure you have a lot of thoughts, so I'd be happy to help clarify some of them. Sounds like you're in the same place where I was 2 years ago.
 
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renningen said:
Hi everyone,

Thoughts on the following program would be really appreciated. In alphabetical order:

HSS
Maryland
Mayo
Vermont
WashU

I am interested in research and would like to have a career in academic psychiatry. How would you compare them in terms of quality of training, reputation, research focus, etc.
Click to expand...

Current PGY3 at HSS. Very happy with this residency program. Though we do have many rotations within the VA system, we also spend a significant amount of time at McLean and state hospitals. This gives us experience ranging from affluent cliente to low socioeconomic populations with serious mental illness. We also do our Child and Adolescent rotation at McLean. One of the weaknesses of our program in the past has been lack of exposure to the female population, but this has been addressed, and residents now have a women's community mental health clinic during PGY2. In terms of research, our resources are vast as residents are able to connect with mentors both in the VA and Harvard system. A resident recently earned the Livingston Fellowship Award from HMS. As a whole, our program tends to attract humble but driven residents. If you have any questions, please PM me!

I also interviewed at WashU and loved the program. Residents were very friendly, and faculty seemed truly invested in their residents' success. However, having done my undergraduate studies there, I chose Boston for residency instead.
 
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Shameless help me rank post...I am looking for an urban program with strong clinical exposure and decent work-life balance

Case
CCF
OSU
U of Chicago
Temple
BU
Tufts
Rush
Emory
Einstein-Montefiore
 
JM26 said:
Shameless help me rank post...I am looking for an urban program with strong clinical exposure and decent work-life balance

Case
CCF
OSU
U of Chicago
Temple
BU
Tufts
Rush
Emory
Einstein-Montefiore
Click to expand...

I only interviewed at two of these, but I can confidently say that at Emory you will get strong clinical training at Grady and the residents I met seemed to be well-rounded and able to balance their professional and social lives adequately!
 
A follow-up question: given an interest in a forensics fellowship after residency, how would these six programs be arranged? (If that would change the order at all.)

CHA (some affiliation with Mass Mental)
Columbia
Cornell
MGH
NYU
WPIC

Thanks!
 
dochtuir said:
A follow-up question: given an interest in a forensics fellowship after residency, how would these six programs be arranged? (If that would change the order at all.)

CHA (some affiliation with Mass Mental)
Columbia
Cornell
MGH
NYU
WPIC

Thanks!
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columbia - has paul appelbaum and ken hoge, strong psychiatry and law program, strong fellowship program
nyu - strong public psychiatry experience, jail ward at bellevue, rotate at kirby - not sure what is happening with fellowship though. has elizabeth ford, stephen billick and richard rosner
cornell - fellowship is shared with columbia
mgh - you are not going to have a problem getting into a top fellowship from mgh (or any of these really) though their own fellowship is less well known. they do have alan stone, and ronald schouten (who does more civil forensics work)
wpic - highly regarded psychiatry program with a forensics fellowship. however i dont know any of the people there, and it's not one of the coveted forensics fellowships
cha - doesn't have a forensics fellowship. you would probably be able to meet up with forensic psychiatrists in the area like gutheil and bursztajn and could do the winter course at HLS that alan stone does. but there is definitely an advantage to being at a program that has a forensics fellowship, especially if you set on it and want to go to a particular fellowship. some programs are competitive and fill from within. for example ucsf did not even interview this past year and just filled internally.

basically you want to go where you will get the best training and also a prestigious program (these unfortunately do not necessarily go hand in hand exactly) but ideally where there is a forensics fellowship and opportunities to get involved with stuff. a handful of forensics fellowships are very competitive (unlikely any other psychiatry fellowship) and so getting publications, presentations, forensics experience, serving on APA council for psychiatry and law, or GAP committee on law and psychiatry etc are recommended. also forensic psychiatrists are not typically warm and fuzzy like regular psychiatrists. but the key to being a good forensic psychiatrist and securing a good fellowship is being an excellent clinical psychiatrist.
 
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Everyone should rank MUSC first, obviously.

And no I am not biased.



On a serious note, if you have any questions about MUSC shoot me a private message. I don't come to SDN often (first post in a couple of years I think), but I'll try to check back a couple times between now and ROL day and answer any questions I can!
 
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wannabie said:
I tried setting up a second look at HCMC two weeks ago for this very reason, but they do not conduct or allow for them.
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That's a bit of a red flag to me. They probably just don't want to deal with having to set up second looks, but how can you be sure it's not to hide something (or prevent you from learning the real rigmaroles of the resident).
 
Would anyone mind commenting on UIC vs. Northwestern? Some of my own impressions and concerns:

UIC seems to offer a much better community psychiatry experience, with rotations at both a dedicated community and state hospital available (and generally has a sicker patient population). It also seems the better option for public health psychiatry, especially with the Institute for Juvenile Research, and has a strong research emphasis that would likely set one up well for an academic career (?). Their child/adolescent experience is unique (the inpatient ward is entirely for youth in the Chicago foster care system, with some pretty serious pathology). Neuropsych is particularly strong, though that's not my personal area of interest. However, many of the residents seemed stressed during the tour, and some of the third and fourth years came across as rather jaded or burnt out. I didn't get a good sense of whether each class had good cohesion, or whether residents felt well supported by faculty. In addition, it sounds like the didactics are a weak spot.

Northwestern seems to have a very supportive, warm/fuzzy program, and has generally been better regarded on SDN. Dr. Anzia is of course lovely, and the residents felt well supported by both faculty and ancillary staff (including having social workers around 24/7). Didactics are a real strong suit, and residents are excused from all clinical duties on Wednesdays for this. Finishing medicine/neuro in the first 6 months is also a big plus. Psychotherapy seems strong, with a lot of supervision and a family therapy rotation in 4th year. However, community psych experience seems limited. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of public psychiatry, and there's little integration with other fields of medicine (e.g. residents are not doing primary care/psych consultation or co-location, unlike many other programs where I interviewed).

Please feel free to correct or challenge any of these impressions - I'm wishing I'd taken better notes during interview season...
 
Any insight into Stony Brook vs. Downstate?

Possibly interested in child, CL, and psychoanalysis training. At both places I liked the faculty I met and they both seem to have good academics and research opportunities.

The obvious big difference is the location and lifestyle that I will live in a suburb vs. city. I do have a preference for one over the other, but if anyone has any insight into quality of program/teaching/happiness of residents, please do share. Thank you.
 
TeaAndCrumpets said:
Would anyone mind commenting on UIC vs. Northwestern? Some of my own impressions and concerns:

UIC seems to offer a much better community psychiatry experience, with rotations at both a dedicated community and state hospital available (and generally has a sicker patient population). It also seems the better option for public health psychiatry, especially with the Institute for Juvenile Research, and has a strong research emphasis that would likely set one up well for an academic career (?). Their child/adolescent experience is unique (the inpatient ward is entirely for youth in the Chicago foster care system, with some pretty serious pathology). Neuropsych is particularly strong, though that's not my personal area of interest. However, many of the residents seemed stressed during the tour, and some of the third and fourth years came across as rather jaded or burnt out. I didn't get a good sense of whether each class had good cohesion, or whether residents felt well supported by faculty. In addition, it sounds like the didactics are a weak spot.

Northwestern seems to have a very supportive, warm/fuzzy program, and has generally been better regarded on SDN. Dr. Anzia is of course lovely, and the residents felt well supported by both faculty and ancillary staff (including having social workers around 24/7). Didactics are a real strong suit, and residents are excused from all clinical duties on Wednesdays for this. Finishing medicine/neuro in the first 6 months is also a big plus. Psychotherapy seems strong, with a lot of supervision and a family therapy rotation in 4th year. However, community psych experience seems limited. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of public psychiatry, and there's little integration with other fields of medicine (e.g. residents are not doing primary care/psych consultation or co-location, unlike many other programs where I interviewed).

Please feel free to correct or challenge any of these impressions - I'm wishing I'd taken better notes during interview season...
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Is there not a C&L rotation at Northwestern? I would think Consult Psychiatry is mandated for all ACGME-accredited programs.
 
To clarify, Northwestern definitely has C/L! I was thinking more about "outpatient consults" / embedded clinics - several of the programs I went to have dedicated time or electives third/fourth year where residents are embedded in a primary care clinic to serve as consultants for PCPs and/or see their own cases right there.
 
Any suggestions on ordering the following NYC programs?
- St Luke's Roosvelet, Beth Israel, Montefiore

I'm interested in psycotherapy, child fellowhship, and possibly an academic career. Have done a bit of research also and would like to continue. Also looking for nice lifestyle and factoring in location.

Thanks!
 
I will appreciate if you can provide some feedback. . Here are my top 5 psyc programs and will appreciate feedback:

1) Baylor
2) Duke
3) University of Texas - Houston
4) Tulane
5) University of Virginia

I am interested in academics and research. (I also interviewed at few neuro programs, and will like last minute advice what I should do. I 'equally' like both)
 
lego1234 said:
I will appreciate if you can provide some feedback. . Here are my top 5 psyc programs and will appreciate feedback:

1) Baylor
2) Duke
3) University of Texas - Houston
4) Tulane
5) University of Virginia

I am interested in academics and research. (I also interviewed at few neuro programs, and will like last minute advice what I should do. I 'equally' like both)
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Personally, I would worry about psych vs neuro long before you worry about specific programs.
 
Armadillos said:
Personally, I would worry about psych vs neuro long before you worry about specific programs.
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I am equally happy with both! Think both are in high demands and pay is very high for each. and I love both. Just needed opinion on psyc programs
 
Hello everyone!

I am having trouble with my rank list. Any thoughts on the following programs would be really appreciated. I am very interested in research and am considering a career in academia. Here goes...

1. Washington University
2. UT Southwestern
3. Vanderbilt
4. Emory
5. MUSC
6. Mayo
7. University of Maryland
8. UVA
9. CCF
10. Georgetown
11. St Luke/ Roosevelt Mt. Sinai
12. Harvard South Shore

Any feedback would be great! Thanks!
 
doctora2013 said:
Hello everyone!

I am having trouble with my rank list. Any thoughts on the following programs would be really appreciated. I am very interested in research and am considering a career in academia. Here goes...

1. Washington University
2. UT Southwestern
3. Vanderbilt
4. Emory
5. MUSC
6. Mayo
7. University of Maryland
8. UVA
9. CCF
10. Georgetown
11. St Luke/ Roosevelt Mt. Sinai
12. Harvard South Shore

Any feedback would be great! Thanks!
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I'm fairly familiar with UTSW, MUSC, and Vanderbilt, and they are all very good (and especially for your stated goals). WashU and Emory have their pluses. UVa, SLR, and HSS are solid mid-level programs with good clinical training. CCF and Mayo would likely rank slightly lower. I don't know much about Georgetown, and I'm not a big fan of Maryland/SP. Guess that completes the list. It's one person's impression of the programs so take it for exactly what that means.
 
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Things that were important to me: Strong clinical emphasis (can take research or leave it), relaxed resident / attending culture, a healthy balance of psychotherapy / psychopharm, and a pleasant place to live with decent cost of living (preferably progressive-leaning). In the end, of course, the "gut factor" plays a huge role, but I'm posting here just to see if you guys knew something I didn't about any of them or if I'm way off base in regard to relative quality of the programs.

Preliminary List:

1. U Wisconsin - Madison
2. Iowa
3. Temple
4. Maine
5. U Nevada - Reno
6. Providence - Spokane, WA
7. UCLA - SFV
8/9. Cooper / AtlantiCare
10. Kaiser Fontana
 
lego1234 said:
I will appreciate if you can provide some feedback. . Here are my top 5 psyc programs and will appreciate feedback:

1) Baylor
2) Duke
3) University of Texas - Houston
4) Tulane
5) University of Virginia

I am interested in academics and research. (I also interviewed at few neuro programs, and will like last minute advice what I should do. I 'equally' like both)
Click to expand...




ANY INPUT PLEASE?
 
id rank duke then baylor. The rest are similar tier. But this going off academic prestige...if you don't care about that, then just pick where you think you fit in the best.
 
liquidshadow22 said:
id rank duke then baylor. The rest are similar tier. But this going off academic prestige...if you don't care about that, then just pick where you think you fit in the best.
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Thanks that's what I was think of putting Duke highest among Psyc. Might rank a couple of Neuro programs above Duke
 
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