Official 2016 Rank Order List & "Help Me Rank" Thread

[noodles198709]

I'm not sure what exactly is going on at USC, but this isn't the first time that I've heard other residents talking about "USC going down the drain." This was brought up at a few pre interview dinners I attended but no one ever went into detail and I did not dig since I was trying to be a good applicant.

From the interview day at USC you would never know Paris was burning. The residents were happy and unconcerned about their search for a new chair.

Similar thing is going on with UC San Diego. Program director is leaving this year, are there any concerns about that?

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[DuskPhilosophy]

Similar thing is going on with UC San Diego. Program director is leaving this year, are there any concerns about that?

I have a feeling what's going on at USC goes beyond the change in program chair.

And Zisook is stepping down but staying on to spend more time actually teaching. But who knows, maybe people are saying the same things about ucsd.

 

[downwithDTB]

Similar thing is going on with UC San Diego. Program director is leaving this year, are there any concerns about that?

These seem like totally different scenarios. First, the chair is the boss, boss. The one who has final say. One of these programs is generally very highly regarded, getting pretty strong residents year in and out, and has a PD choosing to step down in the setting of an otherwise very stable departmental environment (and who will still be around to advise). Of course the new PD could make grand philosophy changes or be a jerk, but that seems unlikely given that his boss (chair) seems to really like the current PD's approach. The other is a less well regarded department searching for an entirely new leadership which may alter the direction of the department or program entirely (or not) in a direction that may not be known. The dollars might steal a big, exciting name, who is pro-education, as chair or bring in someone with lots of research money and no interest in the residents as anything but workers. Apples to kale.

 

[Rooney124]

Trying to decide on my two below my top 1. I know MGH will be my top 1 but between Longwood and Columbia as my 2 and 3.
I want to do community psychiatry and work, particularly, with homeless and uninsured populations. I love Boston more than New York but I guess technically Columbia is the 'better' program. I loved both interviews and really liked the PDs and Residents. It really is tough for me. Maybe if anyone could chime in with what they thought? Or weaknesses they noticed?
Gratefully,
OHP

I'm just an applicant but I don't see how you could go wrong with either b/t Longwood and Columbia (i.e. Ignore those Doximity reputation rankings and what people say about the "top 5"). I only interviewed at the latter, but my impression is that they are both super strong across the board, and that your decision between them would be based much more on personal factors like location, fit with the culture, etc. Regarding your specific interest in community psychiatry, one has Mass Mental Health, and the other has the NY State Psychiatric Institute, so you would likely get amazing exposure to that particular interest at either.

Then again, since only Columbia will be on my ROL between the two, maybe I should just be telling you to stay far away from NYC!

 

[jjmack]

In my mind, both Columbia and Longwood mesh better with your interests than MGH. In terms of Longwood vs. Columbia, I think a lot comes down to location.

Trying to decide on my two below my top 1. I know MGH will be my top 1 but between Longwood and Columbia as my 2 and 3.
I want to do community psychiatry and work, particularly, with homeless and uninsured populations. I love Boston more than New York but I guess technically Columbia is the 'better' program. I loved both interviews and really liked the PDs and Residents. It really is tough for me. Maybe if anyone could chime in with what they thought? Or weaknesses they noticed?
Gratefully,
OHP

Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[FlowRate]

MGH is actually really strong for community work, at least in the primary care realm, not as certain about psychiatry.

 

[taboo501]

Hi, I'm having a hard time deciding among my top 4: Brown, Vanderbilt, Michigan, and Duke. Things important to me: overall feel and support of the program, strong emphasis on education, and strong psychotherapy training. I have based my evaluations of programs mainly on overall gestalt and the quality of the residents (do I fit in with these people? Do I want to me like PGY3s or PGY4s a couple years down the road?) I am most interested in pursuing a child fellowship, but also have strong interest in psychosomatics and community psychiatry. I feel strongly that I could be very happy with any of these programs, but was wondering if anyone else who interviewed at some of these programs could weigh in? I am from the northeast, but don't necessarily have any geographic constraints. Thank you so much!

 

[clausewitz2]

Hi, I'm having a hard time deciding among my top 4: Brown, Vanderbilt, Michigan, and Duke. Things important to me: overall feel and support of the program, strong emphasis on education, and strong psychotherapy training. I have based my evaluations of programs mainly on overall gestalt and the quality of the residents (do I fit in with these people? Do I want to me like PGY3s or PGY4s a couple years down the road?) I am most interested in pursuing a child fellowship, but also have strong interest in psychosomatics and community psychiatry. I feel strongly that I could be very happy with any of these programs, but was wondering if anyone else who interviewed at some of these programs could weigh in? I am from the northeast, but don't necessarily have any geographic constraints. Thank you so much!

The APD's "homeless psychiatry" pet project aside, Vandy is not the place to scratch that community itch. I know some people here will tell you that shouldn't matter much given the realities of what you can get hires easily to do later, but it remains the case.

 

[notdeadyet]

I have no dirt, but will say it's a bummer Dr. Zisook is leaving. He is one of the better PDs out there.

That said, he's been talking about stepping down for a while, so I wouldn't interpret this as smoke and go digging for fire.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[withoutface123]

I would love to hear anymore elaboration regarding USC. My impression from the residents and the interview day was really strong, as was that of some of my fellow cohorts' interview days. I went in knowing the "USC is a mess" mantra, and I tried my darnedest to suss it out. But the chief resident was able to cite specific examples of when issues arose affecting the residents and how they were addressed, there was a great turnout at both the dinner and the lunch (I was impressed that a bunch even stayed around after the dinner to keep chatting and hanging out...amongst themselves! After the med students had left!), the panel seemed to show a wide range of different approaches and styles to medicine, work ethic, and life outside of the hospital. My only qualm really is the drive to Hawkins. They seemed really happy that the old chair was gone (in a very between-the-lines way, like, "We truly appreciated all that he did for the program and the department, and we are glad he found greener pastures" type of talk), and excited about in what direction the department would go. The PD has been there for seven years and she seemed pleasant and personable. Kick and LAC-USC are top notch facilities with diverse patient exposure.

What am I missing here? Granted, this was one of my earlier interviews, so perhaps I didn't quite know what I was looking for.

 

[DrMeowMeow]

.

 

[MiddleRoad]

I would love to hear anymore elaboration regarding USC. My impression from the residents and the interview day was really strong, as was that of some of my fellow cohorts' interview days. I went in knowing the "USC is a mess" mantra, and I tried my darnedest to suss it out. But the chief resident was able to cite specific examples of when issues arose affecting the residents and how they were addressed, there was a great turnout at both the dinner and the lunch (I was impressed that a bunch even stayed around after the dinner to keep chatting and hanging out...amongst themselves! After the med students had left!), the panel seemed to show a wide range of different approaches and styles to medicine, work ethic, and life outside of the hospital. My only qualm really is the drive to Hawkins. They seemed really happy that the old chair was gone (in a very between-the-lines way, like, "We truly appreciated all that he did for the program and the department, and we are glad he found greener pastures" type of talk), and excited about in what direction the department would go. The PD has been there for seven years and she seemed pleasant and personable. Kick and LAC-USC are top notch facilities with diverse patient exposure.

What am I missing here? Granted, this was one of my earlier interviews, so perhaps I didn't quite know what I was looking for.

Please, please, please don't let the opinions of people on an anonymous website be weighed over your own personal experience and gut feelings about a program. I enjoy reading Splik's posts as much as the next guy, but I'm sure (assuming he has some degree of insight) he would be the first to admit that he pontificates energetically about several topics, especially psychiatry programs across the U.S., for which he has very little direct experience.

 

[splik]

agree with above, please use this thread as food for thought. you should not solely rely on what random people on the internets are saying. ask your mentors, speak to residents and people who recently graduated from the program, ask the right questions. (the right questions btw are what you really want to know but maybe didn't ask).

The only thing I'd say is this is not really an anonymous forum.

 

[flight24]

The three Michigan programs that I interviewed were DMC/Wayne State, Pine Rest and St Mary Mercy (Livonia).

I would agree with the above description. I will add that DMC was the worst in my opinion in terms of work load. In fact I thought they were one of the worst in terms of work hours out of all the interviews. I think they have the most credibility (whatever that means anymore lol)

Pine Rest was my favorite. Best facilities, great hours, friendly staff and happy residents. Really nothing more to add that what has already been said.

St. Mary Mercy was the confusing one to me. I was hoping someone could comment on it. Maybe it was just my interview day, but I felt they were being very vague. I didn't really get too much information. It seemed very resident run, which is a red flag in my opinion. Can't moonlight until your 4h year? That's horrible too. Hours seemed just as bad as DMC, but again they were being vague so I really don't know exactly how the hours are. Attending to resident ratio was not good either. IMG heavy (not saying it's a bad thing, but people do care about this kind of stuff). Again I'm hoping someone else could provide more information because I think I may have just had a bad interview tour and couldn't get much information.

 

[Roxas]

It's hard when you're not sure if you're hungry for laziness or success.

Anytime I hear the phrase "holding me/you/them/him/her back", I think of Anakin Skywalker yelling about Obi Wan and throwing things:



That's me right now. Re: my ERAS transcript fiasco

dat acting tho

 

[clausewitz2]

The three Michigan programs that I interviewed were DMC/Wayne State, Pine Rest and St Mary Mercy (Livonia).

I would agree with the above description. I will add that DMC was the worst in my opinion in terms of work load. In fact I thought they were one of the worst in terms of work hours out of all the interviews. I think they have the most credibility (whatever that means anymore lol)

Pine Rest was my favorite. Best facilities, great hours, friendly staff and happy residents. Really nothing more to add that what has already been said.

St. Mary Mercy was the confusing one to me. I was hoping someone could comment on it. Maybe it was just my interview day, but I felt they were being very vague. I didn't really get too much information. It seemed very resident run, which is a red flag in my opinion. Can't moonlight until your 4h year? That's horrible too. Hours seemed just as bad as DMC, but again they were being vague so I really don't know exactly how the hours are. Attending to resident ratio was not good either. IMG heavy (not saying it's a bad thing, but people do care about this kind of stuff). Again I'm hoping someone else could provide more information because I think I may have just had a bad interview tour and couldn't get much information.

The St Mary Mercy hours can't be so terrible because one of their residents maintains the closest thing to a replacement for The Last Psychiatrist that currently exists.

 

[flight24]

The St Mary Mercy hours can't be so terrible because one of their residents maintains the closest thing to a replacement for The Last Psychiatrist that currently exists.

This is news to me. What's the closest thing to a replacement for The Last Psychiatrist?

 

[FlowRate]

edit: nvm, was off topic, sorta wanted to talk about TLP, so I necro'd this thread instead: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/writing-a-suicide-note.323525/

 

[RickSanchezMF]

Can anyone chime in on University of Louisville vs LSU-OLOL? I think I have my top 2 pretty much set now with WashU at #1. Thanks for the perspectives everyone!

 

[kitsu81]

Lockian: it doesn't look like many others on this thread are concerned with the Arizona programs, so I won't clutter it with info. I PM'd you my contact info if you'd like more info, I'm currently training here.

 

[clausewitz2]

This is news to me. What's the closest thing to a replacement for The Last Psychiatrist?

Slate Star Codex. By TLP replacement I mean a fairly active blog that discusses psychiatric topics from a more conceptual/philosophical perspective and also other interesting things in the world. Also, a well-written blog with a distinct authorial voice.

An example:

http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/07/ssris-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know

 

[OldPsychDoc]

I will continue to recommend Dr. George Dawson's Real Psychiatry blog as well.

 

[darkhope]

Any general thoughts about UTSW vs Maryland for academic psychiatry career path with balanced training, considering if location is equal? Thanks!

 

[HarryMTieboutMD]

Any general thoughts about UTSW vs Maryland for academic psychiatry career path with balanced training, considering if location is equal? Thanks!

UTSW. And this is not debatable. UTSW is the best program in Texas and one of the best in the South. It is a research powerhouse with huge names like Carol Tamminga (the chair) and Carol North. Eric Nestler was the previous chair. The department has amazing clinical training, and through training at Parkland, the new Parkland, a huge VA, the UTSW hospital, and a huge children's hospital, you are guaranteed to see anything and everything. Also, UTSW IS academic psychiatry in Dallas; Maryland is not even the best program in the city. Sure you have training at UMBC and Sheppard Pratt, but Hopkins wins out in every category. You would truly be at the second best program in Baltimore. Also, the chair of Maryland Bankole Johnson is extremely suspect and left UVA under fairly questionable circumstances. He's basically a quieter Nemeroff who thinks topirimate can cure everything while raking in mega $$$$ from big pharma. Both Dallas and Baltimore have horrible traffic, but I think both cities are great places to live as a young professional (though Dallas is much cheaper).

I honestly would have ranked UTSW higher, but I simply liked my #1 program (where I matched) better.

 

[darkhope]

UTSW. And this is not debatable. UTSW is the best program in Texas and one of the best in the South. It is a research powerhouse with huge names like Carol Tamminga (the chair) and Carol North. Eric Nestler was the previous chair. The department has amazing clinical training, and through training at Parkland, the new Parkland, a huge VA, the UTSW hospital, and a huge children's hospital, you are guaranteed to see anything and everything. Also, UTSW IS academic psychiatry in Dallas; Maryland is not even the best program in the city. Sure you have training at UMBC and Sheppard Pratt, but Hopkins wins out in every category. You would truly be at the second best program in Baltimore. Also, the chair of Maryland Bankole Johnson is extremely suspect and left UVA under fairly questionable circumstances. He's basically a quieter Nemeroff who thinks topirimate can cure everything while raking in mega $$$$ from big pharma. Both Dallas and Baltimore have horrible traffic, but I think both cities are great places to live as a young professional (though Dallas is much cheaper).

I honestly would have ranked UTSW higher, but I simply liked my #1 program (where I matched) better.

Thanks! That was very detailed

 

[eli20]

UTSW. And this is not debatable. UTSW is the best program in Texas and one of the best in the South. It is a research powerhouse with huge names like Carol Tamminga (the chair) and Carol North. Eric Nestler was the previous chair. The department has amazing clinical training, and through training at Parkland, the new Parkland, a huge VA, the UTSW hospital, and a huge children's hospital, you are guaranteed to see anything and everything. Also, UTSW IS academic psychiatry in Dallas; Maryland is not even the best program in the city. Sure you have training at UMBC and Sheppard Pratt, but Hopkins wins out in every category. You would truly be at the second best program in Baltimore. Also, the chair of Maryland Bankole Johnson is extremely suspect and left UVA under fairly questionable circumstances. He's basically a quieter Nemeroff who thinks topirimate can cure everything while raking in mega $$$$ from big pharma. Both Dallas and Baltimore have horrible traffic, but I think both cities are great places to live as a young professional (though Dallas is much cheaper).

I honestly would have ranked UTSW higher, but I simply liked my #1 program (where I matched) better.

I'm having so much trouble with UTSW. I loved the program and thought that the vibe of the residents/pd was great. Dallas is a nice large city which is what I'm looking for. So I feel like it should be my first choice... but for some reason I just feel like I'd rather be in Austin or Houston.

 

[meowkittymeow]

The three Michigan programs that I interviewed were DMC/Wayne State, Pine Rest and St Mary Mercy (Livonia).

I would agree with the above description. I will add that DMC was the worst in my opinion in terms of work load. In fact I thought they were one of the worst in terms of work hours out of all the interviews. I think they have the most credibility (whatever that means anymore lol)

Pine Rest was my favorite. Best facilities, great hours, friendly staff and happy residents. Really nothing more to add that what has already been said.

St. Mary Mercy was the confusing one to me. I was hoping someone could comment on it. Maybe it was just my interview day, but I felt they were being very vague. I didn't really get too much information. It seemed very resident run, which is a red flag in my opinion. Can't moonlight until your 4h year? That's horrible too. Hours seemed just as bad as DMC, but again they were being vague so I really don't know exactly how the hours are. Attending to resident ratio was not good either. IMG heavy (not saying it's a bad thing, but people do care about this kind of stuff). Again I'm hoping someone else could provide more information because I think I may have just had a bad interview tour and couldn't get much information.

I did an elective at St Mary Mercy in the inpatient ward and hours seemed very reasonable for residents 830-5. Faculty is great and loves to teach and seemed very supportive so not sure where you're getting that it is very resident run? I feel there will be a lot of IMG in any Detroit program owing to the undesirable location. Does Pine Rest have moonlighting opportunities, I didn't think they did..should we be concerned that this is such a new program that hasn't even had a graduating class yet :/

 

[Schizotypy]

I would also love some elaboration, if any, on the USC situation? I loved both USC and Harbor, and they are very close on my list, but I did not get any vibes of concern from USC on my interview day...

 

[scudiera]

Hi, I'm having a hard time deciding among my top 4: Brown, Vanderbilt, Michigan, and Duke. Things important to me: overall feel and support of the program, strong emphasis on education, and strong psychotherapy training. I have based my evaluations of programs mainly on overall gestalt and the quality of the residents (do I fit in with these people? Do I want to me like PGY3s or PGY4s a couple years down the road?) I am most interested in pursuing a child fellowship, but also have strong interest in psychosomatics and community psychiatry. I feel strongly that I could be very happy with any of these programs, but was wondering if anyone else who interviewed at some of these programs could weigh in? I am from the northeast, but don't necessarily have any geographic constraints. Thank you so much!

Applicant here, but I agree w/ claus re Vandy. I loved the APD but it's not a program to get balanced therapy training. I cancelled my Michigan interview but of the 4 you've listed, that's the place I'd rank at the top. Good psychosomatics, don't know about community, really impressed by their therapy training. I cancelled it only because I live in the South and Durham and Boston were more than cold enough for me. Re: Duke - everyone there looks tired and unhappy, I personally didn't fit with them, maybe you did. They seem like quite different programs to me though. I have no comments on Brown since I didn't consider it.

Re: UTSW/MD - only interviewed at UTSW, which I liked. Dallas is boring though - really boring. White bread - emphasis on the white. Good pay, chill, definitely academic. I'd go to BCM or Emory over it personally, because of the location. The "best in the South" is kind of a meaningless designation because we're not talking UC or northeast corridors. People will just see a southern school from a massive academic program. There's nothing wrong with UTSW, like the other guy above, i feel like I should like it more... I just... don't.

 

[darkhope]

I similarly interviewed there (USC)...and did not get a bad vibe, I actually thought the residents there were really happy. Also can anyone comment on einstein-monte? I saw people ranking it highly because it supposedly stood out in a unique way. My perception of the program is that they are very lifestyle friendly and psychodynamically focused, am I missing anything else?

 

[bobby pen]

Having a difficult time deciding between UNC and Colorado. Both seem to be really strong programs and I liked the residents at each as well. Inpatient seems to be stronger at UNC with the specialty units and more beds. Denver definitely has location since I am a single resident and Chapel Hill is more of a college town. Sure Raleigh and Durham are close, but neither is a metropolis.
Also having a tough time placing LIJ-zucker. How does it compare to programs like Vandy and Miami?

 

[clausewitz2]

Having a difficult time deciding between UNC and Colorado. Both seem to be really strong programs and I liked the residents at each as well. Inpatient seems to be stronger at UNC with the specialty units and more beds. Denver definitely has location since I am a single resident and Chapel Hill is more of a college town. Sure Raleigh and Durham are close, but neither is a metropolis.
Also having a tough time placing LIJ-zucker. How does it compare to programs like Vandy and Miami?

Durham + Chapel Hill add up to around 500K population-wise, and they bleed into each other well enough that you probably should count them as one larger city. Raleigh is a bit more distant and has intervening exurbs. The metro as a whole is over a million, but you are right about it not being metropolitan. However, depending on your age, the Research Triangle as a whole might have an awful lot of single people at a similar station in life, many outside of medicine.

Plenty of residents at UNC lived in Durham (of the ones I met, at least). They actually thought it was rather more convenient than Chapel Hill given how much of your time you will ultimately spend at the state hospital in Butner.

One thing that stuck out for UNC for me was that they not only talked a good game about resident wellness, but had taken a lot of concrete steps to build an incredibly supportive training environment.

 

[PrescriptionConniption]

I wonder if ya'll might help me get these in order, I'm really stuck on how to rank the following. Each has some awesome strengths in areas I'm looking for, but also some drawbacks. I'll add some background on my impression of each, and what I'm looking for in a program.

(in no particular order at this time)
1.) UNC Chapel Hill
2.) UCLA Harbor
3.) University of Colorado
4.) UC Irvine

What I'm looking for.
-Solid program with a good mix of inpatient + outpatient, and will give me the ability to snag good jobs/fellowships when done
-Happy residents with a good work/life balance (I am fine with working hard, as long as its reasonable)
-Ability to do research
-Lots to do in the area, I get bored easily (hiking, music, food, nightlife, skiing if possible). I'm hoping for a larger city
-decent dating pool (single guy)
- I consider myself to have more of a "west coast personality" - so that adds a bit more to western programs


My thoughts on the programs:

1.) UNC-Chapel Hill:
Pros: Fantastic program, the residents seemed like a very cohesive, happy group with smiles all around. The big class (14) was a plus. The program director & other faculty seemed very dedicated to resident well-being. The Research focus is a huge bonus, and they have a number of projects going on in my areas of interests. Cost Of living is also great. I liked this program a lot more than anticpated
Cons: Location - while the area seems great for hiking & outdoors, the smaller size worries me. I was told that it might be a tough place to be single. Not the west coast - although I felt more comfortable than anticipated.


2.) UCLA-Harbor
Pros: Another great program that seems to have a stellar reputation, especially on the west coast. The residents were very friendly and laid back. Great county patient population. Lots of Autonomy (in a good way) as a resident. I think that it would be impossible to get bored living in LA, and the dating pool is seemingly endless.
Cons: Lack of a dedicated research program. However, I was told by the program that research is possible if you are motivated- and the UCLA connections could really go a long way. Hospital facilities leave much to be desired. Cost of living could be difficult. I come from a small Midwest town, so the size might be overwhelming (but I think I could deal with it)


3.) University of Colorado
Pros: Location is amazing X 3 (for my interests). Strong research focus. New program director seemed very nice. I'm sure the training would be fantastic.
Cons: The residents seemed somewhat unhappy on my interview day. They didn't seem to have that "cohesive, collegial" feel that I am hoping for. However this may have just been an off day. I've read rumors (thanks SDN!) about this being a malignant program in the past - but that this might have changed with the new PD. The residents also seemed to be a bit overworked & stressed.

4.) UC Irvine
Pros: Very nice residents and faculty. Good emphasis on research (which is increasing with the New PD). Location seemed nice - Orange has the weather + beaches of LA, but not the overwhelming business & traffic. I had a good vibe here.
Cons: The reputation of the program is significantly lower than some of the others on my list (per doximity etc - I'm not sure what to make of this). The program is in flux (new chair being chosen, new PD). I've had a more than one Californian tell me that Orange, CA is "boring, and full of old people).

Thanks for your input! I'm happy to provide more info + answer questions about the programs if anyone as them.

 

[Nymphicus]

I have to agree. I am currently doing research at UTSW. I think the program is incredible. The city is amazing. Great cost of living. Great Symphony (our director is going to the New York Philharmonic), Great food (seriously), Dallas Cowboys, Texas Rangers, Mavericks, Stars and a ton of concerts. Dr. Tamminga and Dr. Brenner are two of the nicest people I have ever met and both willing to bend over backwards for their residents.

I can't say enough good things about it!

Dallas (UTSW) just got the first case of Zika virus in the US so is that a plus or a minus? (sorry that's unhelpful).

I wonder if ya'll might help me get these in order, I'm really stuck on how to rank the following. Each has some awesome strengths in areas I'm looking for, but also some drawbacks. I'll add some background on my impression of each, and what I'm looking for in a program.

(in no particular order at this time)
1.) UNC Chapel Hill
2.) UCLA Harbor
3.) University of Colorado
4.) UC Irvine


4.) UC Irvine
Pros: Very nice residents and faculty. Good emphasis on research (which is increasing with the New PD). Location seemed nice - Orange has the weather + beaches of LA, but not the overwhelming business & traffic. I had a good vibe here.
Cons: The reputation of the program is significantly lower than some of the others on my list (per doximity etc - I'm not sure what to make of this). The program is in flux (new chair being chosen, new PD). I've had a more than one Californian tell me that Orange, CA is "boring, and full of old people).

Thanks for your input! I'm happy to provide more info + answer questions about the programs if anyone as them.

I lived in Orange for 4 years. Orange itself is not very exciting. The thing about these little towns/cities in Orange County is that they are mostly pretty small and bleed into each other as one big suburb of LA. There's more than enough to do. I actually have 2 cats from the Orange County Animal shelter which is on the same block as the UCI medical center. I would also bike to Huntington beach on occasion.

 

[mosbius designs]

Does MGH/McLean and/or Harvard Longwood email/call applicants they're interested in? I know a few programs like Yale specifically mentioned they do not, but I can't recall from the interview day if either of the Program Directors mentioned anything.

 

[splik]

they certainly did in the past. this should have no bearing on your rank list and is irrelevant. how is this helpful for you to know. if they call you you will know. if they don't and you know they call others, that doesn't mean you won't match there, but you will be fuelling your own craziness and feeling unloved and rejected and start cutting yourself.

 

[HarryMTieboutMD]

Applicant here, but I agree w/ claus re Vandy. I loved the APD but it's not a program to get balanced therapy training. I cancelled my Michigan interview but of the 4 you've listed, that's the place I'd rank at the top. Good psychosomatics, don't know about community, really impressed by their therapy training. I cancelled it only because I live in the South and Durham and Boston were more than cold enough for me. Re: Duke - everyone there looks tired and unhappy, I personally didn't fit with them, maybe you did. They seem like quite different programs to me though. I have no comments on Brown since I didn't consider it.

Re: UTSW/MD - only interviewed at UTSW, which I liked. Dallas is boring though - really boring. White bread - emphasis on the white. Good pay, chill, definitely academic. I'd go to BCM or Emory over it personally, because of the location. The "best in the South" is kind of a meaningless designation because we're not talking UC or northeast corridors. People will just see a southern school from a massive academic program. There's nothing wrong with UTSW, like the other guy above, i feel like I should like it more... I just... don't.

No. Having gone to medical school in the South and having interviewed at most of the notable programs there, the best in the South does have relevance in academia for a lot of reasons. There is a hierarchy, and the programs recruit geographically and compete for a lot of the same students. More broadly, in academic psychiatry in general Duke and (pre Nemeroff fiasco) Emory /wereare the creme de la creme with UTSW and possibly UNC right behind. MUSC and Vandy are somewhere in the mix, though MUSC is more established with pillars like Mark George, Ray Anton, and Kathleen Brady. Vandy has Stephan Heckers and some younger "up and coming" people but has actually garnered a lot of respect in academia. Florida has some notability in the region largely because Mark Gold created an empire, though with his recent retirement the future isn't clear. So yes, Southern psychiatry is still relevant in the eyes of psychiatry academia.

 

[withoutface123]

Should I notify my top programs (especially if they are a *top* program) that my CS score is on ERAS? I've had it in my possession for months but I never got around to re-sending it. Two lower-tiered programs sent me gentle-reminders.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

We recheck ERAS frequently for score updates, so as long as you've released the transcript to ERAS, we should already know.
But a lot of applicants use this as a timely opportunity to remind us of their existence, too.

 

[Dharma]

We recheck ERAS frequently for score updates, so as long as you've released the transcript to ERAS, we should already know.
But a lot of applicants use this as a timely opportunity to remind us of their existence, too.

I keep hearing of students (friends) using this 'tactic.' As if PDs would look at an applicant's name and file and have no recollection of the individual... Or it could be the file had been lost in an endless warehouse like the case of loyal James Woods boxed up by Peter. "Top men Brian... Top men."

Surely such tactics would alleviate this kind of situation, assuming a love letter is included that is.

 

[bonedrone14]

Should I notify my top programs (especially if they are a *top* program) that my CS score is on ERAS? I've had it in my possession for months but I never got around to re-sending it. Two lower-tiered programs sent me gentle-reminders.

I just resent mine on eras. I'm pretty sure I saw someone on here say programs get notified when new scores are resent or something like that

 

[Bluejay87]

Can anyone chime in on University of Louisville vs LSU-OLOL? I think I have my top 2 pretty much set now with WashU at #1. Thanks for the perspectives everyone!

This probably won't be super helpful since I didn't interview at University of Louisville, but I was really impressed by LSU-OLOL. I found the quality of teaching, facilities, resident morale, and location to be excellent. Workload seems reasonable. You do night float in third and fourth year. All of the IMGs in the program are from Caribbean medical schools, which isn't really a plus or a minus but I thought it was interesting. Pay is relatively low. No fellowships yet but they would like to start a child and adolescent psych fellowship.
Hopefully that's at least a good reminder of some things you liked or didn't like about the program; sorry I can't compare the two!

 

[bobby pen]

I wonder if ya'll might help me get these in order, I'm really stuck on how to rank the following. Each has some awesome strengths in areas I'm looking for, but also some drawbacks. I'll add some background on my impression of each, and what I'm looking for in a program.

(in no particular order at this time)
1.) UNC Chapel Hill
2.) UCLA Harbor
3.) University of Colorado
4.) UC Irvine

What I'm looking for.
-Solid program with a good mix of inpatient + outpatient, and will give me the ability to snag good jobs/fellowships when done
-Happy residents with a good work/life balance (I am fine with working hard, as long as its reasonable)
-Ability to do research
-Lots to do in the area, I get bored easily (hiking, music, food, nightlife, skiing if possible). I'm hoping for a larger city
-decent dating pool (single guy)
- I consider myself to have more of a "west coast personality" - so that adds a bit more to western programs


My thoughts on the programs:

1.) UNC-Chapel Hill:
Pros: Fantastic program, the residents seemed like a very cohesive, happy group with smiles all around. The big class (14) was a plus. The program director & other faculty seemed very dedicated to resident well-being. The Research focus is a huge bonus, and they have a number of projects going on in my areas of interests. Cost Of living is also great. I liked this program a lot more than anticpated
Cons: Location - while the area seems great for hiking & outdoors, the smaller size worries me. I was told that it might be a tough place to be single. Not the west coast - although I felt more comfortable than anticipated.


2.) UCLA-Harbor
Pros: Another great program that seems to have a stellar reputation, especially on the west coast. The residents were very friendly and laid back. Great county patient population. Lots of Autonomy (in a good way) as a resident. I think that it would be impossible to get bored living in LA, and the dating pool is seemingly endless.
Cons: Lack of a dedicated research program. However, I was told by the program that research is possible if you are motivated- and the UCLA connections could really go a long way. Hospital facilities leave much to be desired. Cost of living could be difficult. I come from a small Midwest town, so the size might be overwhelming (but I think I could deal with it)


3.) University of Colorado
Pros: Location is amazing X 3 (for my interests). Strong research focus. New program director seemed very nice. I'm sure the training would be fantastic.
Cons: The residents seemed somewhat unhappy on my interview day. They didn't seem to have that "cohesive, collegial" feel that I am hoping for. However this may have just been an off day. I've read rumors (thanks SDN!) about this being a malignant program in the past - but that this might have changed with the new PD. The residents also seemed to be a bit overworked & stressed.

4.) UC Irvine
Pros: Very nice residents and faculty. Good emphasis on research (which is increasing with the New PD). Location seemed nice - Orange has the weather + beaches of LA, but not the overwhelming business & traffic. I had a good vibe here.
Cons: The reputation of the program is significantly lower than some of the others on my list (per doximity etc - I'm not sure what to make of this). The program is in flux (new chair being chosen, new PD). I've had a more than one Californian tell me that Orange, CA is "boring, and full of old people).

Thanks for your input! I'm happy to provide more info + answer questions about the programs if anyone as them.

I interviewed at Colorado and did find some of the residents to be tired. But, they were the first year residents on medicine rotations which they admitted were difficult. They all seemed to like each other and had a cohesive feel the night I was there. I also heard this used to be a "workhorse" program although things have improved since the new PD took over, but who knows for sure. Still seems like you would get great training.

I had the same impression you have of UNC. Great program with friendly residents located in a smaller town. As a single resident, I have the same concerns about the social scene. Their inpatient experience seems much better than Colorado. Colorado did have some electives and experiences I really liked that UNC did not. I don't know if that helped at all, I am still trying to figure which to how to rank them myself.

 

[Benaiah]

Looking for some insight into these:
(context: interested in child/academics, but want a balanced life in residency, and ideally a program with great teaching/didactics/mentorship, location is important but not as important as a solid balanced program to me)
In absolutely no particular order:
Baylor: (Seems like a great launching pad for a career in psychiatry, but concerns about workload and living in Texas(I'm a socialist), and quite frankly the negative SDN talk on Baylor is a turnoff, even though the residents all seemed cool and happy)
MUSC: (I hear so many great things about this place, but I just felt underwhelmed on interview day..., like something was missing. Am I the only one?)
Emory: (Similar to Baylor, seems great launching pad, but concerns about workload and Atlanta ( no family or friends for 1000 miles), plus whispers of cowboy medicine, and a worry that there won't be enough teaching)
Dartmouth: (Workload problems, geographically isolated, but otherwise strong program. Faculty seem particularly cool. You won't have much interaction with the old chair: Silberfarb, but he's a legitimate badass)
Maryland: (Similar again to Emory, Baylor, big place with lots of options, but can anyone verify this workload people keep mentioning? I talked to a UMD student who said the q5 call everyone fears isn't that busy, and he thought the residents didn't seem overworked; although on my interview lunch, one of them didn't look like they'd survive the hour)
BU: (get to serve community, residents and faculty were awesome, get to be in Boston, but your kind of the redheaded stepchild of Boston programs, and there isn't a strong academic presence it seems - please correct me on this if I'm wrong)
UMASS: (An overlooked program. Seems very strong. Obvious negatives are being in Worcester, and just being in a small program if you're not into that)
Duke: (What everyone else says. Possibly overworked... and not necessarily into the medicine heavy focus, but strong)

 

[HarryMTieboutMD]

Looking for some insight into my ranks 4-7. Seems to be the wish here that we write a few things about the programs to expect help, so I'll put the biggest pull and glaring weakness for me, and hope others can offer some guiding light. And I honestly have no idea how to rank these, almost any one of them could be #4 or #14

1,2,3 (established already) (context: interested in child/academics, but want a balanced life in residency, and ideally a program with great teaching/didactics/mentorship, location is important but not as important as a solid balanced program to me)
In absolutely no particular order:
Baylor: (Seems like a great launching pad for a career in psychiatry, but concerns about workload and living in Texas(I'm a socialist), and quite frankly the negative SDN talk on Baylor is a turnoff, even though the residents all seemed cool and happy)
MUSC: (I hear so many great things about this place, but I just felt underwhelmed on interview day..., like something was missing. Am I the only one?)
Emory: (Similar to Baylor, seems great launching pad, but concerns about workload and Atlanta ( no family or friends for 1000 miles), plus whispers of cowboy medicine, and a worry that there won't be enough teaching)
HSS: (Same concerns as every other post, but obvs you get the name, but I'm pretty confident about child)
Dartmouth: (Workload problems, geographically isolated, but otherwise strong program. Faculty seem particularly cool. You won't have much interaction with the old chair: Silberfarb, but he's a legitimate badass)
Maryland: (Similar again to Emory, Baylor, big place with lots of options, but can anyone verify this workload people keep mentioning? I talked to a UMD student who said the q5 call everyone fears isn't that busy, and he thought the residents didn't seem overworked; although on my interview lunch, one of them didn't look like they'd survive the hour)
Miami: (wanted so bad to like it, i mean it's Miami. But had some odd interactions on interview day that I didn't have anywhere else, and didactic seem weak)
Colorado: (I think someone else said this, but the residents were all in a daze, poor souls, how hard are they being worked? but every other aspect seems very Strong)
BU: (get to serve community, residents and faculty were awesome, get to be in Boston, but your kind of the redheaded stepchild of Boston programs, and there isn't a strong academic presence it seems - please correct me on this if I'm wrong)
UMASS: (An overlooked program. Seems very strong. Obvious negatives are being in Worcester, and just being in a small program if you're not into that)
Duke: (What everyone else says. Possibly overworked... and not necessarily into the medicine heavy focus, but strong)

Regarding work/life balance- it's PSYCHIATRY, so even at the busiest programs, you will have plenty of free time. Your busiest months will be probably inpatient medicine (mostly because as an intern you don't know anything and are inefficient but this gets better) and even Q4ish overnight call after PGY1 is is doable but most places don't have that. My program is one of the more intensive programs, and I still have time to train for marathons, do research, read, etc. Keep in mind that you do residency to learn how to actually be a doctor (this doesn't happen in med school), and you need to work for this to happen. That said:

1) Duke: Biggest academic powerhouse on your list. Even with Lisanby's departure to the NIH still plenty of big names. You are right, mentorship is key, and this is a great place for that.
2) Emory: ATL is really cheap with a lot of things to do. Great education in teaching (I have friends who are residents there). I would have ranked it higher but I liked my #1 more.
3) MUSC- traditionally strong department with several big names. Not as strong as Duke or Emory but still good
4/5) Baylor and Dartmouth. Dartmouth has a few big names but doesn't register with the other, more notable NE programs. Baylor has Yudofsky and Gabbard but UTSW is the premier program in Texas.

None of the others are academically relevant, so I would just go based on location...

 

[xjoc]

Regarding work/life balance- it's PSYCHIATRY, so even at the busiest programs, you will have plenty of free time. Your busiest months will be probably inpatient medicine (mostly because as an intern you don't know anything and are inefficient but this gets better) and even Q4ish overnight call after PGY1 is is doable but most places don't have that. My program is one of the more intensive programs, and I still have time to train for marathons, do research, read, etc. Keep in mind that you do residency to learn how to actually be a doctor (this doesn't happen in med school), and you need to work for this to happen. That said:

1) Duke: Biggest academic powerhouse on your list. Even with Lisanby's departure to the NIH still plenty of big names. You are right, mentorship is key, and this is a great place for that.
2) Emory: ATL is really cheap with a lot of things to do. Great education in teaching (I have friends who are residents there). I would have ranked it higher but I liked my #1 more.
3) MUSC- traditionally strong department with several big names. Not as strong as Duke or Emory but still good
4/5) Baylor and Dartmouth. Dartmouth has a few big names but doesn't register with the other, more notable NE programs. Baylor has Yudofsky and Gabbard but UTSW is the premier program in Texas.

None of the others are academically relevant, so I would just go based on location...

Atlanta is actually not that cheap compared to all the other places on your list. Have lots of friends there, and rent prices have skyrocketed over the past several years. They're paying at least 1300 for 1 bedrooms.

 

[Benaiah]

Regarding work/life balance- it's PSYCHIATRY, so even at the busiest programs, you will have plenty of free time. Your busiest months will be probably inpatient medicine (mostly because as an intern you don't know anything and are inefficient but this gets better) and even Q4ish overnight call after PGY1 is is doable but most places don't have that. My program is one of the more intensive programs, and I still have time to train for marathons, do research, read, etc. Keep in mind that you do residency to learn how to actually be a doctor (this doesn't happen in med school), and you need to work for this to happen. That said:

1) Duke: Biggest academic powerhouse on your list. Even with Lisanby's departure to the NIH still plenty of big names. You are right, mentorship is key, and this is a great place for that.
2) Emory: ATL is really cheap with a lot of things to do. Great education in teaching (I have friends who are residents there). I would have ranked it higher but I liked my #1 more.
3) MUSC- traditionally strong department with several big names. Not as strong as Duke or Emory but still good
4/5) Baylor and Dartmouth. Dartmouth has a few big names but doesn't register with the other, more notable NE programs. Baylor has Yudofsky and Gabbard but UTSW is the premier program in Texas.

None of the others are academically relevant, so I would just go based on location...

Thank you for the input! If I added one other element, out of Duke/Emory/MUSC/Baylor, will I get significantly more exposure/context in psychodynamic therapy at any one of these? I mean does Gabbard necessarily make Baylor have more opportunities for residents in this regard

 

[splik]

Thank you for the input! If I added one other element, out of Duke/Emory/MUSC/Baylor, will I get significantly more exposure/context in psychodynamic therapy at any one of these? I mean does Gabbard necessarily make Baylor have more opportunities for residents in this regard

how much teaching of the residents does gabbard do - he doesn't actually work at baylor anymore - he went into full time private practice in 2011 though he's still on the volunteer faculty. regardless they still do have a significant psychodynamic bent at baylor. emory also has a decent amount of psychodynamic training - they have their own analytic institute.

 

[bobby pen]

Looking for some outside input on the places on my list. I have ideas about the programs and where I’m going to rank them, just looking for addition input/opinions to help the in process. What I’m looking for…..possibly interested in academics, fellowship opportunities in forensics (not necessarily at that program but ability to open doors to good programs nation wide. Not just regionally.), good supervision and teaching, some research opportunities (doesn’t have to be a powerhouse) and a balanced program. I don’t mind an “intense” program as long as the teaching/mentorship is strong and present. I just don’t want to get stuck doing tons of med checks and lots of busy work with a small educational benefit to time spent working ratio.


In no particular order.


Colorado- Seems like a strong program with tons of opportunities. Location is good. If it is a “workhorse” program, I don’t mind as long as the teaching and experience is as good as it seems.


UNC- Strong program with friendly residents. Location is kind of a minus but that’s ok as long as the program is strong.


Vanderbilt- Liked the location. Patient Population is a little less diverse. I liked the residents and the “street psych” program the APD had developed.


Miami- Love the city. A little more intense. Patient population was really diverse. A Resident said it was a program where you had to “go get what you want." You couldn’t be passive and expect someone to ask you about your interests. Residents seemed happy to be in Miami but not necessarily at Miami (didn’t appear excited about the program).


University of Louisville- Friendly residents, talked a lot about telepsych. They sell the program well.


Emory- Kinda went over it the previous post. Seems like a strong program and a big name in the south.


Tufts- Smaller program that seems to be overshadowed by others in Boston. 6 Residents per class. Seems like you would get great teaching with a good amount of personalized attention because of the size. Any other thoughts on this program? I know a lot of people have been asking about it, but I cant find as much information as I would like.


*LIJ-Zucker Hillside- Looks great on paper and has a new building with lots of specialty units. New chair seems really nice and resident responsive. Seems like a strong program with good teaching. I really want to know how it compares to programs in the South like Emory, Vandy, Miami, UNC etc. In fact, if anyone could give me feedback on this in particular I would really appreciate it. I’m really struggling on the rank.

 

[FlowRate]

Atlanta is actually not that cheap compared to all the other places on your list. Have lots of friends there, and rent prices have skyrocketed over the past several years. They're paying at least 1300 for 1 bedrooms.

Expensive compared to most of the country, but very cheap compared to most of the really big name programs/cities on the coasts.