- Joined
- Aug 19, 2011
- Messages
- 500
- Reaction score
- 321
I may be massively unobservant or it might's been the altitude sickness, but the residents at Colorado did not strike me as overworked at all.
Official 2016 Rank Order List & "Help Me Rank" Thread
- Thread starter chekov
- Start date
- Joined
- May 29, 2010
- Messages
- 124
- Reaction score
- 9
+1 on amazingness of UTSW Dr. Brenner, other PD's paled in comparison (other than NSLIJ's Dr. Young). Genuineness power level well over 9000.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2010
- Messages
- 892
- Reaction score
- 80
All of the interns acted like they never saw each other to the point that they didn't know who someone in their year was when I was there, and it was a major turn off.
- Joined
- May 17, 2010
- Messages
- 3,431
- Reaction score
- 145
So I'm at a dilemma. I want to stay in academics. My research interests are much closer to the medical humanities and health policy than molecular or pharmacological. Fellowship wise I'm thinking #1 forensics, but psychosomatic is also on the radar. To stay in academia and for fellowship purposes, would I be hamstringing myself by ranking BU over UCSD?
Things I am looking for in a program are
1) Support for research in my area of interest
2.) Psychologically minded supervisors (after rotating at different institutions, this is what I find draws me to psychiatry)
3.) To be competitive for any fellowship in the future, particularly forensics or psychosomatic, and to establish a position in a strong academic department with resources to support my area of research
BU/BMC
Pros
- Boston is a cool city with cool people and history
- refugee & immigrant populations
- strong psychological formulation training
- new chair aims to increase research
Cons
- historically a clinically oriented program with little to no research by residents
- changing program leadership (new chair, currently searching for new PD)
UCSD
Pros
- strong research infrastructure
- university next door with departments right in my area of interest
- weather and beach
Cons
- minimal psychological formulation training (compared to BU)
- heavy workload (particularly pgy1 and 2)
- changing program leadership (Dr. Zisook stepping down, new PD unnamed)
- commutes between sites
Things I am looking for in a program are
1) Support for research in my area of interest
2.) Psychologically minded supervisors (after rotating at different institutions, this is what I find draws me to psychiatry)
3.) To be competitive for any fellowship in the future, particularly forensics or psychosomatic, and to establish a position in a strong academic department with resources to support my area of research
BU/BMC
Pros
- Boston is a cool city with cool people and history
- refugee & immigrant populations
- strong psychological formulation training
- new chair aims to increase research
Cons
- historically a clinically oriented program with little to no research by residents
- changing program leadership (new chair, currently searching for new PD)
UCSD
Pros
- strong research infrastructure
- university next door with departments right in my area of interest
- weather and beach
Cons
- minimal psychological formulation training (compared to BU)
- heavy workload (particularly pgy1 and 2)
- changing program leadership (Dr. Zisook stepping down, new PD unnamed)
- commutes between sites
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2004
- Messages
- 11,775
- Reaction score
- 2,027
I'm not sure what form of "medical humanities" you are thinking of, but given that this is your research area, your decisions should be made a lot easier.
Just go where you'll be happiest. You won't see a lot of hard money positions opening up looking for researchers in medical humanities, so you should train where you think you'll get the most out of the experience. Neither one is a powerhouse in the field of academics, but both are likely great programs (I can say this for UCSD, I know less about BU).
Given your interests, your academic career will likely be one that is clinical in nature, maybe with a little protected time for your research interests. So having a research-oriented top 10 residency program in your CV is less important than if you were out trying to scoop up K grants.
If it were me, I'd try to figure out where I wanted to settle down after residency. If it's going to be west coast and you wanted to work in academics, UCSD would likely carry more weight. As you job hunt in residency, your recommendations will carry a LOT more weight if they are from folks that the reader has a relationship with, which is quite likely if they are from BU folks for jobs in the upper east coast and from UCSD for west coast jobs.
Does anyone have any information on Rosalind Franklin? I will add a bit from my interview (I say "a bit" because I felt like I didn't get an overall impression at all). This is the only program that I cannot figure out.
I thought it was strange how little communication there was leading up to my interview day first off. No reminder/follow-up of any sort. (I also did not hear back after I sent thank you emails). My interview day began with the PD giving an interesting (?) lecture on the history of psychiatry residencies. He seemed rather cynical to me and mentioned that if it were up to him, he'd basically flip a coin for the new residents because it didn't really matter out of the 90 or so they decided to interview. He then said no program is different from another because they all have to meet ACGME criteria. Maybe some truth to that, but it seemed like a cop out. Instead of being sold on the program, I felt he was trying to sell the location, which makes me wary.
The 3 residents we did meet seemed nice...and happy. But, they also seemed very disconnected--one didn't even know where another was rotating. This contrasted with a lot of the other programs I interviewed where residents seemed like one cohesive team. I couldn't help but feel it was strange that they didn't have a dinner the prior evening...kind of gave me the impression that they were hiding their residents--or maybe they were too busy?...Moonlighting seemed limited to 4th year, but I could be wrong about that--this is just what one resident told me.
What I did really like is the unique population of active duty members as well as the VA population. I'm very interested in addiction so I feel the population here would be great for those interested in addiction, PTSD, first breaks, "buyers remorse" after joining the service, etc. The PD mentioned that residents get competitive fellowships or are offered jobs at Northwestern after graduating. The facilities and amenities were enticing too. Rosalind Franklin has a great library, gym (with free work-out classes!), and on-site daycare open from I believe 5AM-6PM (and this is income-based payment and very affordable for residents), ok cafeteria (meals are not covered however), lactation rooms etc. The medical school is right on-site so this could be a plus or a minus depending on the person.
I didn't get a lot of information about the call schedule or how the service is while on-call. Another thing worth mentioning is that most of the residents seem like FMGs...not necessarily a bad thing, just interesting.
I am not sure where to rank this...part of me wants to rank it highly since I love Chicago and have ties there. The other part of me wants to rank it last based on the strange aura/vibes or lack-therof. I would appreciate any insight! I will also answer any specific questions (if I can!) if anyone else interviewed here.
I thought it was strange how little communication there was leading up to my interview day first off. No reminder/follow-up of any sort. (I also did not hear back after I sent thank you emails). My interview day began with the PD giving an interesting (?) lecture on the history of psychiatry residencies. He seemed rather cynical to me and mentioned that if it were up to him, he'd basically flip a coin for the new residents because it didn't really matter out of the 90 or so they decided to interview. He then said no program is different from another because they all have to meet ACGME criteria. Maybe some truth to that, but it seemed like a cop out. Instead of being sold on the program, I felt he was trying to sell the location, which makes me wary.
The 3 residents we did meet seemed nice...and happy. But, they also seemed very disconnected--one didn't even know where another was rotating. This contrasted with a lot of the other programs I interviewed where residents seemed like one cohesive team. I couldn't help but feel it was strange that they didn't have a dinner the prior evening...kind of gave me the impression that they were hiding their residents--or maybe they were too busy?...Moonlighting seemed limited to 4th year, but I could be wrong about that--this is just what one resident told me.
What I did really like is the unique population of active duty members as well as the VA population. I'm very interested in addiction so I feel the population here would be great for those interested in addiction, PTSD, first breaks, "buyers remorse" after joining the service, etc. The PD mentioned that residents get competitive fellowships or are offered jobs at Northwestern after graduating. The facilities and amenities were enticing too. Rosalind Franklin has a great library, gym (with free work-out classes!), and on-site daycare open from I believe 5AM-6PM (and this is income-based payment and very affordable for residents), ok cafeteria (meals are not covered however), lactation rooms etc. The medical school is right on-site so this could be a plus or a minus depending on the person.
I didn't get a lot of information about the call schedule or how the service is while on-call. Another thing worth mentioning is that most of the residents seem like FMGs...not necessarily a bad thing, just interesting.
I am not sure where to rank this...part of me wants to rank it highly since I love Chicago and have ties there. The other part of me wants to rank it last based on the strange aura/vibes or lack-therof. I would appreciate any insight! I will also answer any specific questions (if I can!) if anyone else interviewed here.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2010
- Messages
- 7,139
- Reaction score
- 11,293
Their rotation sites are the Lovell VA, and what else?
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2009
- Messages
- 4,234
- Reaction score
- 9,203
do you have a preference over location? if you would prefer to live in Boston than San Diego then it would be okay to rank BU above San Diego. If you are looking and the strength of the programs then UCSD is in a completely different league to BU. It is a major academic powerhouse in psychiatry with some of the biggest names in the field like Dilip Jeste, Hagop Akiskal, Joel Dimsdale, Murray Stein, Lewis Judd, David Braff etc... alot of these people are ancient but they are probably still kicking around as academics don't retire they just die. The program is more biologically oriented but that doesn't mean you won't get a decent training in psychotherapy, and if that is important to you, you would do well do pursue additional trainings during and after your residency, and gain extra supervision. The main negatives I've heard is it's not the most flexible program, you do see a ton of patients, and there is less elective time than other programs. Also if you are interested in humanities, one of my favorite historians of madness Andrew Scull is in the sociology dept there, and not too far away at UCLA is the historian and psychiatrist Joel Braslow who has done some pretty interesting work.
Also the great thing about psychiatry is people are pretty friendly and you can usually establish mentoring relationships and collaborate with people at other institutions quite easily. and your particular research interests lend themselves to more remote collaborations. so i wouldn't think too much about that. though if you are then I would take a look at vanderbilt (did you interview there). It doesn't have a lot going for it, but they are very strong on humanities because of Jonathan Metzl who is pretty awesome (though I usually think he doesn't go far enough).
In terms of fellowships - you can be dead and get into a fellowship in psychiatry (especially psychosomatics). you could get into a forensics fellowship too without much difficulty, and the best programs aren;t even the most competitive as it takes a special kind of person to want to live in sacramento, cleveland or new haven. you may do well to do a forensics elective at the place you're most interested in as a PGY-3 though that isn't usually necessary. Also most academic jobs (with some notable exceptions) are not terribly competitive either as the pay is usually terrible. Some institutions are incestuous, which means it's much easier if you train in their system (not necessarily as a resident, fellow would count too) but there are very few hospitals like this.
p.s. my interests are in forensics, policy, and medical humanities - pm to discuss further, i may have some opportunities for you and can give you some further advice
Mostly the Lovell VA, but also Elgin Mental Health Center, Dupage health dept., Lake county health dept., St Mary and elizabeth medical center. Not sure how much time is spent at those other locations.
Interviewed at RFU as well. Had a very similar interview day to you - Definitely got the "history of psychiatry residency" talk from the PD (which I actually thought was quite interesting - hadn't heard anything like it before). There were about 6 residents at lunch and they seemed quite nice. My impression was that most were American IMG grads with a few graduates of their own medical school.
The thing that got me was all the commuting involved. Most residents live in Chicago proper (which is probably why there was no pre-interview dinner) and wind up driving to North Chicago if they are at Lovell for the month, which if you're north of the loop is at least 30+ miles one way. I think one resident mentioned taking Metra and then biking from the station to the hospital (1-2 miles). Elgin is also a far drive (+50 miles one way to Lovell, ~40 miles from the loop). I vaguely remember hearing that if you are at one of the off sites you do not have to report back to it after didactics/activities, but even so, this commuting just seems like way too much. If it weren't for that, I would've probably ranked this program much higher. The PD and my interviewers were super nice.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2010
- Messages
- 7,139
- Reaction score
- 11,293
Lovell is fine. Elgin is fine as a state hospital. I'm not sure how much I trust the education you'd get at St. Mary's. I don't know anything about the two health departments aside from the fact I once inherited a patient from Lake Co who was put on QID xanax there.
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2008
- Messages
- 7,080
- Reaction score
- 4,857
..
Last edited:
I am very confused. Doesn't anyone has any insight into University of Arkansas (UAMS) program?
I really liked the program but am confused if I should rank it above my home program.
UAMS is a good program and it has one of the eight Psychiatric Research Institutes in the country. It has a separate women's and geriatric unit. A lot of research opportunities and good clinical sites. + moonlighting, + US grads mainly though little ethnic diversity
Only issue is Little Rock which isn't much big but it is 3 hours from my hometown.
I will greatly appreciate any input regarding the program. I do not know if to rank it above my home program which has quite a few IMGs and it is a much smaller program than UAMS.
Kindly provide me insight into UAMS. Thanks
I really liked the program but am confused if I should rank it above my home program.
UAMS is a good program and it has one of the eight Psychiatric Research Institutes in the country. It has a separate women's and geriatric unit. A lot of research opportunities and good clinical sites. + moonlighting, + US grads mainly though little ethnic diversity
Only issue is Little Rock which isn't much big but it is 3 hours from my hometown.
I will greatly appreciate any input regarding the program. I do not know if to rank it above my home program which has quite a few IMGs and it is a much smaller program than UAMS.
Kindly provide me insight into UAMS. Thanks
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2004
- Messages
- 6,366
- Reaction score
- 4,298
I know a couple of faculty there, and they're good people--change my opinion of Little Rock whenever I talk to them! ;-)
Do you think it is a strong program overrall compared to some mediocre programs?
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2004
- Messages
- 6,366
- Reaction score
- 4,298
Depends on your dividing line between 'strong' and 'mediocre'. No program would like to be considered 'mediocre'. I know the PD and the APD, and they're committed educators, and I'm sure striving to keep their program up to national standards. It's like a lot of programs that you don't hear much about on this board--solid clinical training, fills mostly with regional applicants who take jobs in that area, not necessarily trying to keep up with the brand name programs or be an academic powerhouse--that field is crowded enough already.
I appreciate your response. Comparing some other programs in the vicinity like MS, TN, OU; I thought of UAMS highly given they have a dedicated research institute and a solid didactic curriculum as well as teaching faculty. I enjoyed the program, and I think it will prepare me well for an academic career as I can do some research. I am planning to stay in that region afterwards.
I am thinking of ranking it higher than my home program. My top top two choices are great well-known research programs. Hoping for the best to match in my top choice (did well on interview, stayed I. Touch, did second look to get a feel).
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2002
- Messages
- 10,910
- Reaction score
- 1,154
I'm from that part of the country, and my impression is that UAMS is one of the better programs in that area. They keep a lot of their own, which probably speaks to medical students having a high quality experience, but it could also be a bit insular. Little Rock is definitely a small city, but it's a pretty part of the country, and there are actually neat spots in Little Rock with nice restaurants and hangout spots.
I am from same part of the country but 3 hours away from LR. I agree they were proud to announce that they have highest rate of med students graduates entering psychiatry. It speaks for the program that they do a great job on medical education. It is bigger than other programs in country and probably only one with research institute.
Thanks for your input! Sounds like you got quite a few more residents showing up to the lunch than I did. Thanks for the info on the commuting. I didn't even realize how far Elgin was from Chicago until you mentioned it. That is quite far and will definitely be a factor when I rank this program now. Thank you for bringing that to my attention!
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2016
- Messages
- 5
- Reaction score
- 0
Would anyone be able to give their thoughts on how to rank the following:
University of Maryland, Drexel University, Temple University, SUNY Downstate, SUNY Upstate, University at Buffalo, Case Western-MetroHealth, University of Hawaii and University of South Dakota.
Any information/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
University of Maryland, Drexel University, Temple University, SUNY Downstate, SUNY Upstate, University at Buffalo, Case Western-MetroHealth, University of Hawaii and University of South Dakota.
Any information/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2004
- Messages
- 6,366
- Reaction score
- 4,298
Where do you want to live the next 4 years?
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2008
- Messages
- 4,135
- Reaction score
- 7,920
Alternatively, how much so you hate snow? Should be able to strictly determine the order of ranking for those institutions, I reckon.
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2016
- Messages
- 5
- Reaction score
- 0
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2016
- Messages
- 5
- Reaction score
- 0
Leaning towards the NE to be closer to home.
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2004
- Messages
- 6,366
- Reaction score
- 4,298
Well then, Buffalo. No contest.I'm Canadian so the snow doesn't bother me
(It's practically Canada anyway.)
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2016
- Messages
- 5
- Reaction score
- 0
Well then, Buffalo. No contest.
(It's practically Canada anyway.)
Haha thanks! Any thoughts on Drexel vs. Temple?
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2008
- Messages
- 22
- Reaction score
- 4
Hey everyone! Maybe you guys can help me out with my list:
USC
UCSD
UPenn
UF
UCLA Harbor
Brown
UColorado
UC Davis
USF
Temple
USC is my top because of a very strong gut feeling I felt during the residency dinner and during the interview. It's an expensive city, but I loved LA and SoCal in general and I'm interested in working with the underserved (USC). Really, my only question lies with UCSD and Penn. I've been flipping them back and forth. I loved Philly. I loved Penn's program--strong in psychotherapy, strong in C & A, and while I didn't click with the residents per se, I clicked with the faculty I interviewed with. The thing with UCSD is that I feel San Diego is such an awesome, awesome city. My gut feeling there was more about the city than with the program itself, although I did click very well with my interviewers. UCSD is strong in C & A and research (and tons of other things), but is the psychotherapy training really still as lacking as people have been saying for the past few years? That's my main concern, am I sacrificing decent psychotherapy training by attending UCSD over UPenn? Thanks, guys.
USC
UCSD
UPenn
UF
UCLA Harbor
Brown
UColorado
UC Davis
USF
Temple
USC is my top because of a very strong gut feeling I felt during the residency dinner and during the interview. It's an expensive city, but I loved LA and SoCal in general and I'm interested in working with the underserved (USC). Really, my only question lies with UCSD and Penn. I've been flipping them back and forth. I loved Philly. I loved Penn's program--strong in psychotherapy, strong in C & A, and while I didn't click with the residents per se, I clicked with the faculty I interviewed with. The thing with UCSD is that I feel San Diego is such an awesome, awesome city. My gut feeling there was more about the city than with the program itself, although I did click very well with my interviewers. UCSD is strong in C & A and research (and tons of other things), but is the psychotherapy training really still as lacking as people have been saying for the past few years? That's my main concern, am I sacrificing decent psychotherapy training by attending UCSD over UPenn? Thanks, guys.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2004
- Messages
- 11,775
- Reaction score
- 2,027
No. You would likely get better psychotherapy training at Penn, but UCSD still does more than just lip service to psychotherapy. If your main clinical priority was psychotherapy, UCSD wouldn't be a good first choice, but the training is there and you can seek out additional supervision.
I'm curious why you ranked USC so much higher than Harbor. They serve a similar demographic, but Harbor has better psychotherapy training, which seems to be a priority for you. Just idle curiosity, I am a big proponent of going with gut.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- Joined
- May 29, 2010
- Messages
- 124
- Reaction score
- 9
What are your guys thoughts about UMiami?...f
Content of program itself is not turribly remarkabe besides their patient diversity and 'Consensus conference' where Nemeroff and other top faculty interview mystery/treatment refractory patient whose cases have been and develop recs/dx's. Notable grand rounds too since attract big people thanks to Nemeroff and south beach miami. Current PD is former OHSU chair and awesome guy. Faculty/residents seem overall happy and that department has transformed since Nemeroff's arrival 6 yrs ago.
What do yall think? (development as legit clinician/researcher and career trajectory is most imp to me).
Content of program itself is not turribly remarkabe besides their patient diversity and 'Consensus conference' where Nemeroff and other top faculty interview mystery/treatment refractory patient whose cases have been and develop recs/dx's. Notable grand rounds too since attract big people thanks to Nemeroff and south beach miami. Current PD is former OHSU chair and awesome guy. Faculty/residents seem overall happy and that department has transformed since Nemeroff's arrival 6 yrs ago.
What do yall think? (development as legit clinician/researcher and career trajectory is most imp to me).
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 17, 2010
- Messages
- 3,431
- Reaction score
- 145
I didn't notice the residents being especially happy.
- Joined
- May 29, 2010
- Messages
- 124
- Reaction score
- 9
fair point. definitely faculty moreso than residents who seemed mixed bag.
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2004
- Messages
- 6,366
- Reaction score
- 4,298
How many residents is Nemeroff mentoring?
Seriously, it is rare, rare, rare that a Chair (especially a "Name") is going to have you writing papers with him, putting you on a grant with him, etc.
The presence of a Celebrity Faculty Member has very little to do with what YOU as a resident are going to get out of a program.
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2008
- Messages
- 22
- Reaction score
- 4
Good point about Harbor. Honestly, there really was just a gut feeling I felt at USC over UCLA Harbor. Perhaps the residents were more well-rested that day then on the day I visited Harbor and thus were a bit warmer and friendlier? In all fairness, I wasn't able to go to Harbor's dinner with the residents so I can't 100% accurately compare the two in that regard. Anyhoo, thank you for your advice!
- Joined
- May 17, 2010
- Messages
- 3,431
- Reaction score
- 145
From my interview impression, it seemed like Nemeroff had a small handful of residents he worked with (I met 2, maybe there's a few more? not sure). These residents seemed happier than the other residents I met. Also, they were the ones who seemed most present during the interview day and dinner. Gave me a strange vibe of in/out crowd. Although I suppose it's better to be part of the in-crowd.
- Joined
- May 29, 2010
- Messages
- 124
- Reaction score
- 9
Typically 1 bonafide mentee from PGY3/PGY4 (usually resident volunteers) and plenty residents he supervises from sideline, excluding connecting residents with opportunities/etc. Do not get sense residents are into research/academia.
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2015
- Messages
- 52
- Reaction score
- 11
let's say you like a program that appears really research-heavy, but doesn't feel like you *have* to do it. would one stick out like a sore thumb being a resident there, if one didn't plan (at this moment) to do a ton of research?
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2015
- Messages
- 406
- Reaction score
- 424
I didn't come across a single program where the majority of residents were really involved in research, and doubt that one exists. Remember, unless you're bringing in money (which can include being on a T32/R25 or R01 supplement), or performing at a high level, it's cheaper/easier for the dept. if you just just bring in clinical money. My impression was that the good research programs had no interest in making researchers out of those with little interest in research as it's generally a waste of everyone's time and money. In short, I think you'll be in the majority wherever you go, and you can probably confirm that by pubmeding the PGY4s in your target program and seeing how many of them were involved in serious research endeavors during residency.
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2009
- Messages
- 7
- Reaction score
- 0
Hi guys! I am hoping to get some insights on how to rank the following programs!! I want a program that has good balance training on both pharm and therapy as well as diverse patient population (both ethnicities and socioeconomic). I don't necessary want to do basic science research myself but would be nice to be surrounded by newest psychiatry discovery! also hope to find some good colleagues/friends that will hangout with each other and inspire each other! Location wise CA> ny > others. Any help would be appreciated. Thank u so much!!
1) UC Davis
Imo this is the most balanced program of the 6 in terms of name, being a academic center, and pretty doable workload.
2) USC-LAC
Love the residents and faculties. Unsure what the previous or current admin problem is about (no one mentioned it at the interview this year). Unsure how good psychotherapy training and didatics are. Also unsure whether the experience will be compromised if u don't speak Spanish.
3) UCLA-SFV
Worried about being too VA heavy and unsure how much time residents get to work at UCLA (as far as I know it's 6mo inpatient child and 4 mo inpatient adult). Is it still an academic program or is it a community program? Does it have a better name than USC because it is affiliated with UCLA?
4) San Mateo
Love the program but unsure about going to a suburb area with such a small program. It seems like everyone is very independent and it might be hard to make friends?
5) UC riverside
6) UCI
7) mt Sinai Beth Israel
8) Maryland
9) UNC
10) BU or Georgetown
1) UC Davis
Imo this is the most balanced program of the 6 in terms of name, being a academic center, and pretty doable workload.
2) USC-LAC
Love the residents and faculties. Unsure what the previous or current admin problem is about (no one mentioned it at the interview this year). Unsure how good psychotherapy training and didatics are. Also unsure whether the experience will be compromised if u don't speak Spanish.
3) UCLA-SFV
Worried about being too VA heavy and unsure how much time residents get to work at UCLA (as far as I know it's 6mo inpatient child and 4 mo inpatient adult). Is it still an academic program or is it a community program? Does it have a better name than USC because it is affiliated with UCLA?
4) San Mateo
Love the program but unsure about going to a suburb area with such a small program. It seems like everyone is very independent and it might be hard to make friends?
5) UC riverside
6) UCI
7) mt Sinai Beth Israel
8) Maryland
9) UNC
10) BU or Georgetown
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2004
- Messages
- 11,775
- Reaction score
- 2,027
This. Even at the most research-heavy top-reputed programs in the country, it is a minority of residents who do research. At many of those programs, that number is <25% of the residents.
DISCLOSURE - I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible but I am currently a medical student in Philadelphia.
Drexel: pros - Friends is a fantastic facility with a lot of great clinic resources - geri, adolescent, residential, and general adult units. Residents get a long really well and are a good mixture of AMGs, IMGs, and DOs. Child and Adolescent fellowship where you can fast track (are there still programs that don't allow you to fast track?). Free parking at Friends and Hahnemann. cons - Friends is not located in the "heart" of Philadelphia and is more suburban so the patient population, in the CRC in particular, is more of a suburban population. Friends and Hahnemann are at separate sites so there is some driving around but its really not that bad at all.
Temple: pros - in the "heart" of philly. Episcopal is located in Kensington aka the drug capital of philadelphia so the patient population definitely is a representation of an urban inner city population. CRC is very busy with high acuity which residents consistently point out as a huge learning opportunity. Residents are happy again there is very much a good mix of AMGs, IMGs, and DOs. cons - there really aren't strong specialty services. There is no geri or adolescent unit within Episcopal. They also do not have any fellowships. Episcopal and Temple University Hospital are at different sites, but again they aren't very far apart so its not a big deal.
There really is no clear winner here. It depends what is more important to you, patient population or resources for fellowship/sub-specialty training.
Hope that helped!
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2011
- Messages
- 996
- Reaction score
- 599
You rarely go wrong with strong gut feelings. But I will add that I find the ranking curious myself given I consider UCLA Harbor to have stronger psychotherapy training than that of USC and I argue it has a better reputation. As for UCSD, keep in mind that over 60% of UCSD grads stay in San Diego, so if your heart is set on living in San Diego then you're best bet would be to go there and take extra initiative to solidify psychotherapy training (which can be done outside of core residency courses/didactics).
This is for everyone, but try to pick up on the "culture" of each program. They are as different as countries of the world. Penn feels very different than UCSD than Harbor than Davis. You will be living in that milieu, so you better be sure you have some positive chi with its culture to rank it highly.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2010
- Messages
- 64
- Reaction score
- 1
@Leo Aquarius - interesting point re: "culture" and how different they can be / are.
Does anyone have any opinions on how the cultures differ at MGH vs Brown?
Does anyone have any opinions on how the cultures differ at MGH vs Brown?
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2013
- Messages
- 2,542
- Reaction score
- 4,260
I agree with culture, but from my perspective, much of a program’s culture depends upon the residents, and more than half of this depends upon your class mates. When you start training, the PGY-IVs are leaving and you will be placed with new PGY-Is who not only you don’t know, your program has no clue about them either. It continues to impress me how each class is different with different needs and different strengths and weaknesses.
I have heard applicants say that some of their gut feelings come from the other applicants they meet on the trail. The odds of matching with someone who happens to interview on the same day you are here is less than one in 10 generally. If you bump into someone you don’t like, odds are we don’t like them either. If you like someone a lot, we probably do to, and they are still unlikely to become your classmate. I remember I really didn’t like a chief resident who rubbed me wrong. It didn’t turn me off much because I figured he was out of there anyway.
The point is, I believe culture is important, but it is tough to evaluate accurately and it is almost impossible to steer. Cultures can be made worse. They can be made better if you have the right players, but sometimes they cannot be made better without some personnel flow. The good news is that training programs always have personnel flow. If I could only keep the good ones and graduate the weak ones, it would be nirvana.
I have heard applicants say that some of their gut feelings come from the other applicants they meet on the trail. The odds of matching with someone who happens to interview on the same day you are here is less than one in 10 generally. If you bump into someone you don’t like, odds are we don’t like them either. If you like someone a lot, we probably do to, and they are still unlikely to become your classmate. I remember I really didn’t like a chief resident who rubbed me wrong. It didn’t turn me off much because I figured he was out of there anyway.
The point is, I believe culture is important, but it is tough to evaluate accurately and it is almost impossible to steer. Cultures can be made worse. They can be made better if you have the right players, but sometimes they cannot be made better without some personnel flow. The good news is that training programs always have personnel flow. If I could only keep the good ones and graduate the weak ones, it would be nirvana.
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2011
- Messages
- 175
- Reaction score
- 111
So how is Emory perceived POST-nemeroff fiasco? It still seems very strong as a program.
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2015
- Messages
- 406
- Reaction score
- 424
Actually, it would be called "grad school." You should have been a PI...
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2011
- Messages
- 175
- Reaction score
- 111
I've been looking at FRIEDA and I've noticed that the reported average work hours per week don't match up with the impressions I got during my interviews. For example, Case Western reports 60 hours per week average, but they seemed like a more chill program. Residents talked as if they had bountiful free time and they seemed very relaxed. Emory and UCSD, which people describe as having heavy workloads, report 55 hours per week average. The average for all programs I interviewed with is about 52 hours per week with the max being 60 and minimum being 40. I'm NOT complaining about these hours. I'm just curious as to whether my impressions are wrong or FRIEDA is inaccurate. I guess it could just be that factors other than the number of hours worked are affecting stress and fatigue levels. Any thoughts?
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2015
- Messages
- 406
- Reaction score
- 424
Frieda has nothing to do with anything other than what the PD wants to list or their best guess. Resident hours are probably similar. Ask 5 med students and 5 course directors how many hours students work and get 10 responses. Some high workload PDs will under report to hide the work load and some easy programs the PD reports 60 to look like it's serious training.
I would not even look at that sort of info as it's not empirically derived.
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2016
- Messages
- 5
- Reaction score
- 0
