Official Holiday WW Game Thread

[shortnsweet]

SnS is another that falls under the sneaky wolf category...

Def sent an excited message to dyachei when I saw the words "you are a villager". It has been far too long since I have seen them in my inbox. Though thank you Nohika, I shall take that as a compliment.


And LIS doesn't trust the killer whales like...ever.
"But they have KILLER in their name!!!!"

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[tropictuco]

Is it possible to be a wolf WITHOUT being sneaky?

 

[Lissarae06]

Is it possible to be a wolf WITHOUT being sneaky?

Not a very good one...

 

[shortnsweet]

Is it possible to be a wolf WITHOUT being sneaky?

Yes.

Some people have 2 different styles they play with depending on what side they are on. If you play with them long enough, you can pick up on patterns.

In SOV's case...he is always suspicious.

 

[EngrSC]

Guess I'll go with Lynch Kakuru because I've got nothing better

 

[fromthebox]

Ugh. Random time.
****lynch hedgiehog*****
For no reason but RNG as I'm not sold on the bandwagon.

 

[nohika]

Yes.

Some people have 2 different styles they play with depending on what side they are on. If you play with them long enough, you can pick up on patterns.

In SOV's case...he is always suspicious.

It's best to have a style to adapt to whether you're a villager or a wolf. That way it's harder to tell.

 

[jdh71]

look what I have created . . .

I wish I never would have introduced anyone to the RNG pick - though it seemed a good idea at the time many moons ago

look, guys, basic game theory states that random picks is stupid and only helps the wolves

we may not have any solid investigatory evidence, which is too bad, but we need to go off of something

has anyone been shady in any communications? is anyone playing differently than normal? who is the dark horse wolf in too many games?

I don't know you guys, so I'd put forward we lynch someone who plays an awesome wolf simply because they play an awesome wolf, UNLESS that person can give reason to keep them around, and then that person gets an investigation next night.

Someone help a brotha our here . . .

 

[fromthebox]

look what I have created . . .

I wish I never would have introduced anyone to the RNG pick - though it seemed a good idea at the time many moons ago

look, guys, basic game theory states that random picks is stupid and only helps the wolves

we may not have any solid investigatory evidence, which is too bad, but we need to go off of something

has anyone been shady in any communications? is anyone playing differently than normal? who is the dark horse wolf in too many games?

I don't know you guys, so I'd put forward we lynch someone who plays an awesome wolf simply because they play an awesome wolf, UNLESS that person can give reason to keep them around, and then that person gets an investigation next night.

Someone help a brotha our here . . .

Kakurubird actually does play an excellent wolf. She is not a bad choice by that logic. Nohika has made her defense, even if feeble.

My but won't be around to justify my choice, it's already past my bed time so I went with easy guilt free RNG.

 

[tropictuco]

I don't know you guys, so I'd put forward we lynch someone who plays an awesome wolf simply because they play an awesome wolf, UNLESS that person can give reason to keep them around, and then that person gets an investigation next night.

I think this sounds like a better idea than the RNG--I've only played one game and Kakuru was the last wolf standing at the end of it, so that's why I'm going with it. I'm sure there are much better trends to pay attention to than that, though.

 

[LetItSnow]

I don't know you guys, so I'd put forward we lynch someone who plays an awesome wolf simply because they play an awesome wolf, UNLESS that person can give reason to keep them around, and then that person gets an investigation next night.

Someone help a brotha our here . . .

Fair enough.

unlynch SOV

lynch JDH

Reason: I think the comment above is even more suspicious (though it's still a really, really faint ping on my radar) than SOV's. You're basically saying "Hey, let's force the good players to give some reason to keep them around" (i.e. let's force the good players to at least partially reveal their role or whether they have an important role).

That seems more wolfy than SOV's weird comment.

 

[fromthebox]

Whatever, sleep time for me.

 

[orcagirl]

I was more referring to how often WS and Orca end up getting lynched for their names.

But yeah ... we have LOTS of people around here who play sneaky wolves.

I've mostly gotten lynched for not being around enough. It happens almost every time: just when I'm really getting into the game and maybe figuring things out life happens, someone suspects me, and I can't defend myself. that won't happen again (though with another week of selectives it probably will)

 

[StartingoverVet]

I don't know you guys, so I'd put forward we lynch someone who plays an awesome wolf simply because they play an awesome wolf, UNLESS that person can give reason to keep them around, and then that person gets an investigation next night.
. .

The problem with this approach is it leads to quiet people and noobs as the only villagers at the end of the game, because you lynch all the quality experienced players (who invariably make good wolves or villagers), and then the wolves win ANOTHER freaking game.

Somehow it has become WW lore that lynching silent people and noobs is verboten (forbidden), but I would rather have the endgame be the best players than the quietest, least controversial players (ok... maybe that is a self-serving statement because I am noisy and controversial... but still it makes sense)..

Having said that... not enough time to get a new bandwagon going... and kakuru is both a wily wolf and tends to be quiet so I will not change my vote... but I am expressing my objection to your suggestion for future reference.

 

[jdh71]

Fair enough.

unlynch SOV

lynch JDH

Reason: I think the comment above is even more suspicious (though it's still a really, really faint ping on my radar) than SOV's. You're basically saying "Hey, let's force the good players to give some reason to keep them around" (i.e. let's force the good players to at least partially reveal their role or whether they have an important role).

That seems more wolfy than SOV's weird comment.

Good wolves should have to give us a reason to keep them around in case they are wolves at this point.

Your argument against my logic is what, given the current situation we find ourselves in? "Seems wolfy"? Strong work champ! Can't argue at all with any of that logic! Let's just RNG ourselves to a wolf win, right?

Pay attention to what I'm saying . . . it all based on game theory. If you don't think it is a good idea, would you please share with the group why?

 

[jdh71]

The problem with this approach is it leads to quiet people and noobs as the only villagers at the end of the game, because you lynch all the quality experienced players (who invariably make good wolves or villagers), and then the wolves win ANOTHER freaking game.

Somehow it has become WW lore that lynching silent people and noobs is verboten (forbidden), but I would rather have the endgame be the best players than the quietest, least controversial players (ok... maybe that is a self-serving statement because I am noisy and controversial... but still it makes sense)..

Having said that... not enough time to get a new bandwagon going... and kakuru is both a wily wolf and tends to be quiet so I will not change my vote... but I am expressing my objection to your suggestion for future reference.

It's the reason nutmeg always gets the axe early - just in case. But your logic is flawed that this will continue ad infinitum thoughout the game. Eventually investigation and logic begin to direct the flow of lynching traffic. My suggest is at least a viable option for the first lynch as opposed to the nonsense, I've seen from players again and again and again and again. Everyone bemoaning how horrible the first lynch is . . .

 

[Packen]

Just got caught up, really crappy day

I don't know if I buy into jdh's theory - kill off people who play well as wolves. Short of a few dumb typos from noobie wolves I feel like most wolves play well. But is this a wolfy move to try and kill off good players....ehhh, I dunno either. I am more inclined at this point to go with

lynch SOV

I find it odd that groups would have been so chatty already, but could be wrong. And I can't remember, but I don't think there was a reason for Enrg vs anyone else in the group? Not saying there ISN'T a wolf in that group, just seems off. Must vote now, 1 min remaining.

 

[wolfspeaker]

Rng says:

Lynch Krist

Fun fact of the day: I don't remember making this vote. (I was a leeeeetle drunk )

 

[Packen]

Oh, and to add, sorry your eyes are bothering you, hope the procedure is a success though!! Hopefully the big font helps

 

[wolfspeaker]

JDH, I will remind you that this is the Pre-Vet forum, not the Lounge. You cannot compare our games to yours.

 

[jdh71]

Just got caught up, really crappy day

I don't know if I buy into jdh's theory - kill off people who play well as wolves. Short of a few dumb typos from noobie wolves I feel like most wolves play well. But is this a wolfy move to try and kill off good players....ehhh, I dunno either. I am more inclined at this point to go with

lynch SOV

I find it odd that groups would have been so chatty already, but could be wrong. And I can't remember, but I don't think there was a reason for Enrg vs anyone else in the group? Not saying there ISN'T a wolf in that group, just seems off. Must vote now, 1 min remaining.

OK.

So lets say we don't try and lynch based on past good wolf play. Then base the lynch vote on what? I don't want to hear RNG, because that's not helpful.

Someone give me a reason for a lynch that is based on a real reason?

 

[jdh71]

JDH, I will remind you that this is the Pre-Vet forum, not the Lounge. You cannot compare our games to yours.

When was I doing that?

 

[Packen]

OK.

So lets say we don't try and lynch based on past good wolf play. Then base the lynch vote on what? I don't want to hear RNG, because that's not helpful.

Someone give me a reason for a lynch that is based on a real reason?

What was wrong with the reason I gave? Being suspicious of something someone writes is always a good first step.

 

[Packen]

Geez, I am a mess today - the large-type font message was meant for DEVYN

 

[wolfspeaker]

When was I doing that?

It was a joke. Since you told me I couldn't compare the two forum games. Now I'm telling you. (pssst, you were suppose to laugh)

 

[DVMDream]

OK.

So lets say we don't try and lynch based on past good wolf play. Then base the lynch vote on what? I don't want to hear RNG, because that's not helpful.

Someone give me a reason for a lynch that is based on a real reason?

It is the first lynch... there is NEVER a good reason unless investigation reveals something or someone has been caught in a lie already via PMs... my group just started sending PMs but mostly it is just "hello".

Having the "veteran/good players" start revealing roles already is bad. The last few games the wolves have been very smart and left the noobs in the game until the end which leaves a bunch of players that don't know what is going on to get stuck into their trap and follow them... which is exactly what will end up happening if we start having veteran players revealing roles at the beginning... it is a bad move.

 

[jdh71]

What was wrong with the reason I gave? Being suspicious of something someone writes is always a good first step.

Suspicion may be a reason, but it's not based on any sort of real logic if it's just suspicion. What was it that was so suspicious to the point of it being a reasonable. Connect some of the dots there for me. I can be convinced.

 

[Packen]

The last few games the wolves have been very smart and left the noobs in the game until the end which leaves a bunch of players that don't know what is going on to get stuck into their trap and follow them...

New strategy - lynch all noobs.

 

[jdh71]

It was a joke. Since you told me I couldn't compare the two forum games. Now I'm telling you. (pssst, you were suppose to laugh)

I didn't compare the games anywhere though.

 

[jdh71]

It is the first lynch... there is NEVER a good reason unless investigation reveals something or someone has been caught in a lie already via PMs... my group just started sending PMs but mostly it is just "hello".

Having the "veteran/good players" start revealing roles already is bad. The last few games the wolves have been very smart and left the noobs in the game until the end which leaves a bunch of players that don't know what is going on to get stuck into their trap and follow them... which is exactly what will end up happening if we start having veteran players revealing roles at the beginning... it is a bad move.

Again, you will eventually have a situation where the game starts directing lynches. So, then we should lynch someone who usually plays the game very badly then.

Who sucks at WW around here?

 

[StartingoverVet]

OK.

So lets say we don't try and lynch based on past good wolf play. Then base the lynch vote on what? I don't want to hear RNG, because that's not helpful.

Someone give me a reason for a lynch that is based on a real reason?

This lynch vote is past deadline... but I am all up for eliminating quiet players...
They can't help us find wolves, and plenty of wolves have been surviving in pre-vet by just keeping quiet at the beginning (including me). Let's make blending into the background a punishable offense and then we will have a lot more statements of people to evaluate.

 

[LetItSnow]

Your argument against my logic is what, given the current situation we find ourselves in? "Seems wolfy"? Strong work champ! Can't argue at all with any of that logic! Let's just RNG ourselves to a wolf win, right?

Pay attention to what I'm saying . . . it all based on game theory. If you don't think it is a good idea, would you please share with the group why?

Speaking of paying attention, you should try it. I've never been a proponent of RNG. So you're "Let's just RNG ourselves to a wolf win" makes no sense as a response to me specifically. My position on the RNG is well known.

And yes, "seems wolfy" is about the best I have to go on right now. We've had one mayor vote and one night. And nothing came out in the thread from the night, and I have no 'private' information. So I'm going off public posts. Which leads to not a ton to go on.

You're being hypocritical. You're saying 1) Don't RNG, instead pick someone who plays a good wolf, and then 2) "Strong work champ" when I do exactly what you suggest.

You play a good wolf, AND you said something that strikes me as odd. So I'm taking your advice and voting to lynch you. And then you call me out on it? Lame.

 

[LetItSnow]

If you don't think it is a good idea, would you please share with the group why?

One more comment (and, btw, it also falls under the "pay attention" snarkiness that you started): I DID share my reasoning - I feel like what you're doing is essentially trying to get information out of the good players. That'd be an *excellent* wolf strategy - find out which good players are likely to be the biggest threat so you know which ones to focus on.

 

[Packen]

Since there is no info, I will throw out a shot in the dark...

can't imagine why someone would pick EC to start to kill, on the off chance she was picking up a wolfish vibe already from her group (she has had her moments in the past)... I will

lynch EngrSc.

Admittedly it is pretty thin to almost nothing. but I gotta sleep.

Suspicion may be a reason, but it's not based on any sort of real logic if it's just suspicion. What was it that was so suspicious to the point of it being a reasonable. Connect some of the dots there for me. I can be convinced.

SOV's logic dictates that EC is an odd wolf choice for a kill. But she has played quite a few games, plus her death does not throw out red flags, like Lissa dying has me immediately pointing fingers to SOV or LIS. I think EC is a logical kill, not a noob to be scared off, but not an obvious choice. That seemed weird that SOV would think that, and then cast suspicion on her group. So since we have about 2 posts per person to go on for this lynch I chose this reason. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[LetItSnow]

Having the "veteran/good players" start revealing roles already is bad. The last few games the wolves have been very smart and left the noobs in the game until the end which leaves a bunch of players that don't know what is going on to get stuck into their trap and follow them... which is exactly what will end up happening if we start having veteran players revealing roles at the beginning... it is a bad move.

Oh my god, I think the world just ended - DVMD and I are in complete agreement. There's not even a tiny bit of her post that I can nitpick. God save us all.

 

[jdh71]

Speaking of paying attention, you should try it. I've never been a proponent of RNG. So you're "Let's just RNG ourselves to a wolf win" makes no sense as a response to me specifically. My position on the RNG is well known.

And yes, "seems wolfy" is about the best I have to go on right now. We've had one mayor vote and one night. And nothing came out in the thread from the night, and I have no 'private' information. So I'm going off public posts. Which leads to not a ton to go on.

You're being hypocritical. You're saying 1) Don't RNG, instead pick someone who plays a good wolf, and then 2) "Strong work champ" when I do exactly what you suggest.

You play a good wolf, AND you said something that strikes me as odd. So I'm taking your advice and voting to lynch you. And then you call me out on it? Lame.

No. You were arguing against my idea because you said it would out "good players". You decidedly disagreed with me, but now it does seem that you DO agree with me.

I can agree with your logic now.

 

[jdh71]

though I'm not going to vote for own lynch

 

[StartingoverVet]

It's the reason nutmeg always gets the axe early - just in case. But your logic is flawed that this will continue ad infinitum thoughout the game. Eventually investigation and logic begin to direct the flow of lynching traffic. My suggest is at least a viable option for the first lynch as opposed to the nonsense, I've seen from players again and again and again and again. Everyone bemoaning how horrible the first lynch is . . .

Whether that works is a function of the quality player:crappy player ratio, and the amount of information that the game design allows.

In larger games, I find the information is pretty slow to leak out, and it is easy to kill off quite a few quality players through lynches, and then quite a few quality players get killed by the wolves. That leaves the quiet and the noobs.

Based on the fact that their are a number of villager only roles in this game, I think the info level will be relatively low (fewer sources of info), so killing good players is to the wolves advantage.

My whole questioning the killing of EC is to figure out what kind of wolves we have. She is not the most veteran player around, but she has had some good games....so I think the wolves must know her play well and fear her in some way.. .either because of her PMs or because of past play. I picked a pre-vet player who is not a noob, and not the most veteran.

Personally, I am not a fan of the lynch Nutmeg idea early in the game. It is funny, but not smart in my mind. I found him a useful villager and would rather kill him later in the game when he is more likely to be converted than lose one of your best logicians.

 

[DVMDream]

Oh my god, I think the world just ended - DVMD and I are in complete agreement. There's not even a tiny bit of her post that I can nitpick. God save us all.

It is still early in the game... plenty of time for a disagreement later.

 

[StartingoverVet]

This is fun. Thanks for playing JDH. Later.

 

[jdh71]

Whether that works is a function of the quality player:crappy player ratio, and the amount of information that the game design allows.

In larger games, I find the information is pretty slow to leak out, and it is easy to kill off quite a few quality players through lynches, and then quite a few quality players get killed by the wolves. That leaves the quiet and the noobs.

Based on the fact that their are a number of villager only roles in this game, I think the info level will be relatively low (fewer sources of info), so killing good players is to the wolves advantage.

My whole questioning the killing of EC is to figure out what kind of wolves we have. She is not the most veteran player around, but she has had some good games....so I think the wolves must know her play well and fear her in some way.. .either because of her PMs or because of past play. I picked a pre-vet player who is not a noob, and not the most veteran.

Personally, I am not a fan of the lynch Nutmeg idea early in the game. It is funny, but not smart in my mind. I found him a useful villager and would rather kill him later in the game when he is more likely to be converted than lose one of your best logicians.

Yet. I know of two games where the lynch nutmeg first rule was not used and the wolves won easily because of it . . .

Fine you guys don't want to lynch good wolves. I still think I'm correct on this one.

 

[zanydogz]

Oh my god, I think the world just ended - DVMD and I are in complete agreement. There's not even a tiny bit of her post that I can nitpick. God save us all.

Wow...

 

[jdh71]

This is fun. Thanks for playing JDH. Later.

you know how we do . . .

 

[LetItSnow]

Based on the fact that their are a number of villager only roles in this game,

How do we know that? I missed it somewhere, I guess?

 

[StartingoverVet]

How do we know that? I missed it somewhere, I guess?

That was inference on my part. EC was just a villager, I am just a villager, and ShortnSweet's post may have implied she is just a villager (although that is conjecture).... Therefore I believe a fair number of people must be villagers.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

 

[shortnsweet]

That was inference on my part. EC was just a villager, I am just a villager, and ShortnSweet's post may have implied she is just a villager (although that is conjecture).... Therefore I believe a fair number of people must be villagers.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

You are correct.

 

[LetItSnow]

Fine you guys don't want to lynch good wolves. I still think I'm correct on this one.

Fair enough. I just don't think that's the best approach. For starters, the "good wolves" are also more likely to be "good villagers". Since the numbers say you're more likely to lynch a villager than a wolf if you're going off of nothing but out-of-game data (like who has made a good wolf in the past), then you're more likely to kill off your good villagers.

Second, I'm not really sure "good wolves" means much. Most of the players have played a bunch of games and are at least competent. So I don't know that it's really a useful distinction.

Third, I think "suspicion" is a valid criteria. I have lost count of how many times I've kicked myself for seeing something suspicious and talking myself out of a lynch vote because I didn't really have anything to go on. As much as it makes me grit my teeth to say so, this is one thing DVMD does pretty well - she's willing to say "hey, that caught my attention" whereas I tend to note it and sit back and then get annoyed later when I find out I should have lynched someone.

So on the whole, I guess I'm just not convinced. I'd rather go with suspicion, even if it's pretty weak, than either RNGing or, like you're suggesting, voting for people simply because they've played a good wolf in the past.

 

[LetItSnow]

That was inference on my part. EC was just a villager, I am just a villager, and ShortnSweet's post may have implied she is just a villager (although that is conjecture).... Therefore I believe a fair number of people must be villagers.

I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Gotcha. I guess jdh was right - I wasn't paying close 'nuff attention. Thx.

 

[DVMDream]

As much as it makes me grit my teeth to say so, this is one thing DVMD does pretty well - she's willing to say "hey, that caught my attention" whereas I tend to note it and sit back and then get annoyed later when I find out I should have lynched someone.

This needs to be quoted so I can reference it in the future if needed...

 

[dyachei]

Can someone give an updated tally? I've been stuck in sx