Official: Penn State Brandywine post-bac 2009

[Lokhtar]

Anyone else applying for/joining this program?

You take 36 credits over the course of one year (April to April), which includes three bio courses, chem, o-chem and physics. The advantage of this program (and why I chose it) is that is one year and only on saturdays. The course lectures are delivered via the web (with sound/animation, etc) and you go to school on saturdays to do your labs, and also to take your exams. That way, people can work during the week, and can even live pretty far away (as long as they can commute on saturdays).

You have to take all 36 credits though, as a whole unit and can't pick and choose specific courses, so you would have to be in a situation where you need to take (or re-take) all of your pre-requisites. From the web site, here are the course descriptions:

BIOL 110. Biology: Basic Concepts and Biodiversity (4 credits)
A study of the evolution of the major groups of organisms including the fundamental concepts of biology. Includes a lab.

BIOL 141. Introductory Physiology (3 credits)
Explanation of the normal structure and function of the animal body, with special emphasis on human body systems.

BIOL 142. Physiology Laboratory (1 credit)
Experiments demonstrating basic physiological principles, with special reference to man.

BIOL 230W. Biology: Molecules and Cells (4 credits)
A study of cellular phenomena including molecular genetics and metabolic interactions. Includes a lab.

CHEM 110. Chemical Principles I (3 credits)
Basic concepts and quantitative relations.

CHEM 111. Experimental Chemistry I (1 credit)
Introduction to quantitative experimentation in chemistry (lab).

CHEM 112. Chemical Principles II (3 credits)
Continuation of CHEM 110, including an introduction to the chemistry of the elements.

CHEM 113. Experimental Chemistry II (1 credit)
Continuation of CHEM 111, with emphasis on topics related to CHEM 112 (lab).

CHEM 210. Organic Chemistry I (3 credits)
Principles and theories; nomenclature; chemistry of the functional groups; applications of spectroscopy.

CHEM 212. Organic Chemistry II (3 credits)
Continuation of CHEM 210. Emphasis is placed on the role of organic reactions in biological chemistry.

CHEM 213. Laboratory in Organic Chemistry (2 credits)
Basic laboratory operations; synthesis and chemical or instrumental analysis.

PHYS 250. Introductory Physics I (4 credits)
Selected topics in mechanics, heat, and sound. Includes a lab.

PHYS 251. Introductory Physics II (4 credits)
Selected topics in light, electricity, and magnetism. Includes a lab.

I'm pretty excited to start, I am wondering if anyone else has also applied? The class size is very small, and you only take classes with other pre-medical, pre-veterinarian and pre-dental post-bacs (in terms of labs/exams) since we go on our own schedule and not the standard penn state semester terms. The total tuition is $15,000 for the year, and if you need housing, its pretty cheap around the area.

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[Lokhtar]

No one? About 20+ people will be in the program, and I know more applied (going by the open house). There is another open house on the 24th (last before program begins) if anyone is interested.

 

[TeacherGoneMed]

Tell me more!! I am a little far to travel to the open house, but it sounds pretty interesting. Lokhtar, what about HES? Let me know your criteria.

 

[Lokhtar]

Tell me more!! I am a little far to travel to the open house, but it sounds pretty interesting. Lokhtar, what about HES? Let me know your criteria.

Well, most post-bacs that I found were either full time for one year, or part time for two years. This is the only one that's structured to be part time for one year because its designed specifically for post-bacs and you only have to go to school on saturdays (all day) to give exams and do your labs. The lectures and homework is done online through video/audio/chat, etc. It's specifically designed for adults to finish in one year, so I chose it. For me personally, this program provides the best compromise.

At HES, you can do the program in one year, but its not recommended to do anything else while taking three courses at a time. But its a well established program that has a very high placement rate, so you shouldn't discount it either. It was my second choice. But for me, I like the fact that I can live at home, work part time, and still finish in one year. So it ends up being cheaper, faster and more convenient. So that's 3/3, and that's pretty hard to pass up.

You should be aware that you have to take the whole sequence as a unit. You can't pick and choose your classes - so its not for people who have half the pre-reqs done. I have a couple pre-reqs done, but I didn't do as well as I'd like on them and I was planning on retaking them anyway, so its fine for me. But if you don't need to retake or take courses, this probably isn't for you.

 

[Zohaib86]

This seems like a pretty good program. It would be far from me since I'm from California, but I think I'll still apply because I could work while I do this and it's only a year long.

 

[lpressley130]

Hi there:
I applied and they have emailed me to let me know they received my application. I hope to hear back from them in two weeks about their decision. I will be attending their open house next week in the meantime.

I have to say, I found this program by accident. I'm glad I did. They're not too far from me and I'm willing to travel. Not only do they provide the academics, they seem to be catering to the working adult by offering classes online, etc. Can't wait for the open house!

 

[spazzz]

I wonder how this will rival the West Chester University one, if at all. It seems more geared towards real post-baccs, considering you don't sit in classes with undergrads. Is there any links to medical schools?

 

[Lokhtar]

I wonder how this will rival the West Chester University one, if at all. It seems more geared towards real post-baccs, considering you don't sit in classes with undergrads. Is there any links to medical schools?

Nope.

 

[Lokhtar]

I wonder how this will rival the West Chester University one, if at all. It seems more geared towards real post-baccs, considering you don't sit in classes with undergrads. Is there any links to medical schools?

Well, as far as I can tell, the following schools in the Philly area have post-bacs:

1. Bryn Mawr
2. Penn
3. Drexel
4. Temple
5. West Chester
6. Villanova
7. Penn State Brandywine
8. La Salle

Philadelphia is the center of medical education, with Penn, Drexel, Temple, PCOM, and Jefferson as medical schools and they have lots of post-baccs as well. So you have a lot of choices. There is very little reason to move out of the area, especially as you can do it informally at many of these schools as well.

I chose Penn State Brandywine after researching all of them, so I'd recommend you do your homework and pick the best one for you.

 

[lpressley130]

Lokhtar:
I've been accepted into the program! I should receive my official letter tomorrow. I went to the open house on the 24th and they said they had about 12 students up to that point - and, they would take up to 16. I'll find out the particulars when the mail comes tomorrow!

 

[Lokhtar]

If you're planning on attending, send me a PM, we'll exchange contact info . Also, would you mind posting or PMing your stats?

 

[Lokhtar]

I wonder how this will rival the West Chester University one, if at all. It seems more geared towards real post-baccs, considering you don't sit in classes with undergrads.

Not only do you not sit with the post-bacs, the course schedules are designed for us. For example, the whole program is like one big semesters where you take and finish classes. For example Bio 230W lasts four months while Phys I lasts three, and you pick up and end classes as they run their course (e.g, not the semester schedule followed by the university). In fact, a couple of the courses that we will take (PHYS 250, 251) haven't been offered in the undergrad section for a couple years.

Out of all the programs, this seemed to be the one designed from the ground up, just for post-bacs.

 

[Jack1919]

I went to their November orientation. It's a great program and seems to be well thought out. The distance education technology they offer is superb ans there seems to be a lot of support. Everyone there was very friendly and excited about getting this off and running.

One caveat - this is technically not a "certificate" program and thus one can only receive financial aid through private loans - no stafford loans are available. The program costs $15,000 due in increments throughout the year. Also, don't think that because it's distance education and geared towards those of us who continue to work that it is easy. I wouldn't recommend working full-time while taking all of these courses. I'm sure it could be done, but you would not see a lot of daylight.


Anyway, very impressive. I've been to orientations for U Penn and LaSalle and I was most impressed by this program.

 

[Lokhtar]

So who is in? I think they accepted between 12-18 people. I know one other person from the site will be attending - but I don't know everyone else. Will anyone else be attending starting March 31st? It sounds like a fantastic program - I hope to meet everyone at the orientation on March 20th!

 

[Kingthom]

So who is in? I think they accepted between 12-18 people. I know one other person from the site will be attending - but I don't know everyone else. Will anyone else be attending starting March 31st? It sounds like a fantastic program - I hope to meet everyone at the orientation on March 20th!

Hi there- I'm relatively new to this forum but I was accepted and will be attending. Just received the schedule for the labs/exams and also my first tuition bill (!), all via e-mail.

 

[Lokhtar]

Same here, I just sent them the check today. I'll PM you.

 

[Lokhtar]

Well, everything has been finalized it looks like. More information for those who are applying next year:

Classes are approximately two weekends a month: Saturday 9AM-5PM, and Sunday 9AM-2PM. During those classes, you'll do all your labs, and give exams as necessary. You start off with two courses (March 31st-June 14th), and from then on its three courses per term. There are four total terms in the year, which goes from March 31st to March 31st (one full year, you take all your pre-reqs).

The classes are held online, where they'll post lectures every week as well as assignments and other things (there will be a discussion board as well). In addition, there is a 'live' session at a set time every week for each of the classes, where the teachers will have microphones/webcams and they can discuss any material or answer questions and things of that nature. You can also choose to get a microphone or webcam, or you can just use the chat box to type.

This is the first year of the program, so a lot of things are still being designed, but the classes (and the whole year) is structured exclusively for the post-bacs (we aren't on their semester schedule, we don't take classes with them, etc).

Overall, so far I've been very impressed with the program, and looking forward to its start at the end of this month.

 

[Jack1919]

Definitely continue to give updates as you progress through the year. I'm especially interested in how well the technology works (or if there are any hiccups), and how intense the schedule becomes.

Those of you who will be starting this March - do you plan on working throughout the year, and if so, how much? Also, what about MCAT prep? From what they said at the orientation they have built the curriculum to serve as pre-req's and MCAT prep. I'd like to get your feedback on this once it starts.

Best of luck to all of you !!

 

[Lokhtar]

Personally, I have to finish a couple courses at my undergrad, so I'll be doing that, doing this program and working part time in the beginning. But thankfully, thats only for two months, and for the rest of the time, I plan on working part time, and doing this (and also volunteering/shadowing).

The coursework does look intense, so I probably would not recommend a full time job. I will give updates throughout the year as we progress on workload/MCAT preparation/technology and things like that.

 

[spazzz]

Personally, I have to finish a couple courses at my undergrad, so I'll be doing that, doing this program and working part time in the beginning. But thankfully, thats only for two months, and for the rest of the time, I plan on working part time, and doing this (and also volunteering/shadowing).

The coursework does look intense, so I probably would not recommend a full time job. I will give updates throughout the year as we progress on workload/MCAT preparation/technology and things like that.

good luck!

 

[itek2OD]

well this prog sounds great for anyone who is west of philly and needs pre med courses. sound like me 3 years ago, living in media, in fact i believe i called them up about taking courses there, but they either didn't have the courses, or they were during the day. smae thing with villanova, except the prob was day classes. looks like both schools have changed their minds....not that i'm bitter now, but a couple years ago could have helped me out a lot.

jump on this program.

 

[Lokhtar]

Sue Currie is the person to talk to about this program. She is absolutely fantastic about getting back to people and answering questions.

My account has been set up and I am looking through all the sections for our first (bio class). It seems to be very thorough, so looking forward to it in two weeks.

 

[Jack1919]

All,

How's it going so far?

Definitely interested in the rigors of the program and maintaining some sort of employment? Also interested in how the logistics of the online/campus lab program is working out.

Keep us updated when you get a chance.

Thanks !!

=joboo

 

[Lokhtar]

All,

How's it going so far?

Definitely interested in the rigors of the program and maintaining some sort of employment? Also interested in how the logistics of the online/campus lab program is working out.

Keep us updated when you get a chance.

Thanks !!

=joboo

First exams this weekend. 3-Ethyl-2-3-4-trimethylpeptane who in the what now? It's the second week only. I'll update after the weened.

Look at the number of posts I've made for last two weeks - coincidence?

 

[spazzz]

i always hated naming, would rather do reactions. good luck

 

[Lokhtar]

Test wasn't bad at all. I made three mistakes, but they were all of the idiotic mistake variety (counting Oxygen as 15 instead of 16, etc), and not of the ignorant of the material variety. The test was very fair, and if you did all the homework problems, you wouldn't have any problems with it. The questions ranged from easy to hard, but nothing was new on the Test. Everybody seemed like they prepared well, and I think I did relatively well (depending on how many stupid mistake I made).

The material moves fast and there are Tests and labs all the time, so be real careful and do not fall behind. In two weeks, I feel like I've already learned more than a whole bunch of classes I took in undergrad. Is it possible to work and do this? Yes, but you need to have time outside of the weekends to study - many weekends you'll be at the school for exams and labs and you'll need weekday time to study.

There is a quite a bit of material, and at the beginning of the week you may be 'WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON HERE?' mode, but work through the lectures, read the book, do the assigned problems, and go back and read and understand the notes, and it makes a lot of sense.

One thing I like is that the chem and the bio are coordinated - you learn things in Bio based on what you're learning or just learned in chem. So it's very nice because it helps you have a conceptual understanding.

The professor for Biology, Dr. Dudkin, said that in our exams, she'll take some questions from the old MCATs, so we can get used to answering application type questions that are on the exam. The administration really is supportive of this - this is their first year, but everyone seems to be behind this program.

So far, I'd give the whole program an A+. Of course, I have a bio exam tomorrow, but I think I got the material down - there are plenty of online quizzes they make which you take after the lectures to gauage how well you're assimilating the information, which are really useful.

I hope this is useful - I'll keep adding stuff as the year goes on.

 

[Lokhtar]

I took the bio test - it was very fair. There were a bunch of questions taken from the MCAT (she marks them as such), and surprisingly, I did well on them, and their level of difficulty and the way they were worded were similar to the rest of the test. So I'm cautiously optimistic regarding how well I did, and I think these classes are going to prepare me for the MCAT real well (considering the professor said she'll do the same thing for every Test). She is also going to be teaching all three biology courses, so there'll be a lot of consistency (Biodiversity, Physiology, Cell Biology).

 

[Jack1919]

It sounds like an excellent program.

Good luck and keep me up-to-date.

 

[Shakti08]

Hi! I'm new to this thread!.. I came across the info you provided about the Post baccalaureate premed programs in the philadelphia area. Very helpul, wanted to thank you for those!! very informative!.
I am curious about the Penn State one. I couldn't start this year. I'm getting married outside of the country in May so coudln't work it, but probably for next year!.
Please keep us posted! I want to know more about the actual application process to med schools once you have finished the program.

Good luck!

 

[Lokhtar]

Will do - there is a mix here. A couple want to go to dental school, at least one wants to go to PA school, and I believe the rest want to go to medical school. But I'll keep everyone up to date. There is usually an exam every other week and there are lots of things that are due every single week, so everyone is very busy here.

 

[Lokhtar]

Our first term is ending in a week (its four terms in quick time over the space of a year). I'd be happy to answer any questions.

 

[Jack1919]

How difficult has it been? And, I guess what was your preparation for the program? How much do you typically study a week and do you or any of your peers continue to work part-time or - yikes - full-time.

What are you general impressions about the labs and the technology?

Anything would be great to hear.

Thanks L!

 

[Lokhtar]

How difficult has it been? And, I guess what was your preparation for the program? How much do you typically study a week and do you or any of your peers continue to work part-time or - yikes - full-time.

What are you general impressions about the labs and the technology?

Anything would be great to hear.

Thanks L!

Most people do work full time, though everyone who does has absolutely no life. It's designed for people who work, but there are no shortcuts and if you miss a week's worth of material...it's going to be close to impossible to recover.

It's been very difficult, as the courses are condensed, and everyone here studies hard. It's not a competitive atmosphere, and most of us get along, so its a good thing. We also have a study group going, and we're refining the methods.

The exams are very fair, but there is a LOT of mateiral to cover. The technology is very good. There is a connect session twice a week with teachers (they have microphones, camera, and they can share their screen when they do problems, or show powerpoints as they are talking).

As for how much I study - it varies, but I study every day - at least something every day. If I miss one day, I feel like I am behind on the material.

 

[Lokhtar]

Well the first semester is officially over. I did really well in both classes (Chem I and Bio I), though I am still waiting on the final grades for the Chem Lab. Overall, the final exam for chem (the one I was worried about) was very fair and my crazy studying for the last week paid off. I got an A in both of the classes, so I'm really happy about that. Now I hope that damn Chem lab doesn't ruin it for me

There are four semesters in a year where you go through all the courses, so the next course starts full speed in a couple of days.

Is anyone applying/thinking of applying to that program for the session beginning next april?

 

[Lokhtar]

Someone PM'ed me some questions, and one of them is the schedule so I thought I'd post:

We meet once every two weeks at the campus. On saturdays, we do Chemistry and on Sundays we do Biology. We usually have an exam every time we meet. The Chemistry exam starts at 9:00AM, and lasts until 11:00-11:30 or so. We then get lunch, and then start on the chemistry labs. We are usually out by 3:00-4:00pm. The lab writeup is usually due by next saturday. On Sundays, we have Biology, and the exams start at 9:00AM, and take about two hours or so. Then, if there is a lab, we do that, though so far, we have been out earlier than in Chemistry.

There are quizzes due every week for that week's material (due every wednesday night) that you take online. On Wednesday and Thursday nights, we meet online with the instructors and go over that week's materials, ask questions/answers. Though we have an online board where we can ask questions, or email the professors...I usually hear back within hours, so it's real nice. There are also office hours you can go to, though the professors are very accessible via email, online forums, and the connect sessions, so its really not needed for you to do so.

Because you only have to be on campus two weekends a month, a couple people commute from relatively far away. Almost everyone works as well, and the online sessions are at night, and everything else is on the weekends, so it works out well for those who have a job or other things. But you're going to be doing a lot of work, and you'll earn your grade and you'll learn the material real well for the MCAT. Plus, the classes are very interesting.

 

[Lokhtar]

There is an information session on August 19th, anyone planning on attending? Or applying next year?

 

[Shakti08]

Hi Lokhtar! I may go to that information session in August. I was interested in being in this year's class.. but had my wedding in the way (in another country ) so it was impossible.
I am looking at other schools to see if I don't have to wait till april of next year. How are you liking the program so far? When would you take the MCAT?
Thanks

 

[Lokhtar]

I am really liking this program, I'd definitely recommend it. I am planning on taking the MCAT in April or May. We're doing physiology right now, and we're getting a lot of application questions (like you'd find on the MCAT), so it's really good preparation. Remember that a lot of places are two years if you do part time, so even though this starts in April, you may end up spending the same time in postbac.

 

[Bradfordzt]

I am hopefully attending the Aug. 19th information session. I was glad to see that you said that you had the same prof for multiple classes. The biggest thing I was concerned about was getting letters of recommendations. That should allow me to get to know the profs well enough to get the letters.

 

[Lokhtar]

Yes, we have two professors now that we will have the whole year. Same professor for all three BIO courses and the same professor for both General Chemistry and Physics. On top of that, the program is small and you meet separately from the undergraduate students, so they'll know you.

 

[ANF1986]

I just registered for the August 19th information session...I'm going into my senior year at Temple University majoring in Political Science... I'm also exploring Temples post-bac as well as UPenn and LaSalles...

 

[Lokhtar]

So anyone coming today?

 

[ANF1986]

I went to the info session...The fact that there is no linkages and that it was geared towards people who were working incidentally made it not for me. I find it odd that they wouldn't link to their own medical school, although they said they were working on it. What ultimately did it for me, and what I hadn't realised prior to attending the info session, is that classes start in March, and I do not graduate until May. It seems the program is strictly for people who already have their bachelors, may have been working a few years, and decided to go pre-med. So, I'm currently appyling to Temple and UPenns pre-health programs...

 

[Lokhtar]

I went to the info session...The fact that there is no linkages and that it was geared towards people who were working incidentally made it not for me. I find it odd that they wouldn't link to their own medical school, although they said they were working on it. What ultimately did it for me, and what I hadn't realised prior to attending the info session, is that classes start in March, and I do not graduate until May. It seems the program is strictly for people who already have their bachelors, may have been working a few years, and decided to go pre-med. So, I'm currently appyling to Temple and UPenns pre-health programs...

Well, I didn't get my bachelors until June, and the program started in March 31st (basically April). It shouldn't really hold you back if you decide to apply.

However, PENN and Temple should also be very good choices! Good luck with your post-bac. Penn has a high rate of matriculation, but from what I hear, the attrition is very very high there.

 

[ANF1986]

Well, I didn't get my bachelors until June, and the program started in March 31st (basically April). It shouldn't really hold you back if you decide to apply.

However, PENN and Temple should also be very good choices! Good luck with your post-bac. Penn has a high rate of matriculation, but from what I hear, the attrition is very very high there.

Thats interesting...I am taking 7 classes this coming fall semester, and 6 classes in the spring including my capstone course in my major, which I think would be quite unmanageable with the sciences.

In addition, I have also already completed Biology I&II requirements with relatively decent grades and I think it would be unwise to risk taking them again, as this program requires you to do. I think this program is great for working professionals and career changers(I dont work), it just didnt suit my specific needs. I enjoyed the info session and I thought the campus was really nice. I think it will be a much more advantageous program once they establish a solid linkage with at the very least their own medical school.

In my situation time is of the essence as I've already had to switch majors once, and the longer I wait, the longer the interest on my student loans keeps compounding ...

Good luck with your application cycle Lokhtar..

 

[jfogarty25]

I am applying to begin in March of 2009. I should hear back soon. I have appreciated the comments on here as it has encouraged me about joining a newer program. Did you apply for this year or decide to go elsewhere?

 

[jennaS]

I also found this program, but what I am curious about is how med schools look upon this program, with the distance learning and all - do we know of anyone who has finished the program and gotten into Med school (MD version)?

 

[Lokhtar]

Distance learning is not the right way to describe this. We come to school to take the exams and do the labs just like everyone else. It's not an online class - just the lectures are available online.

 

[Pukka]

Hello.

I was just accepted to this program and was wondering what everyone thought? Especially if you have already been through it. I actually live about two hours away so i am going to have quite a drive on the weekends... Anyway do you recommend it? Do you have plans of attending post graduate schools in the near future? Do you feel the program gave you everything you were looking for and will help you obtain your career goals?

I would love to hear any response or any other information you feel like sharing.

Thanks!

 

[Lokhtar]

I feel I am prepared for the MCAT. I would recommend it as it's a one year program that still is centered around letting you work (e.g, no day classes). There are people who've been doing this for years unofficially, and they've been successful getting into medical school. We had one student (who is at Drexel) come speak to us a couple weeks a go. But since they had a few students every year doing it, they decided to make it an official program.