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I got an interview. How long after the invterview did you hear back?


I interviewed on Saturday, and I was accepted today.

I'm wondering if people have opinions on the curriculum sequence?

http://online.sfsu.edu/~brothman/formal_program/curriculum.html

I was surprised to see Organic Chemistry II before Chemistry II. I was also surprised to see that the lecture and lab for Chemsitry II are scheduled during separate semesters and that the lab was 3 units.

The tuition is pretty steep for a state school. Do you think the optional concepts or sections classes are worth the money?

I didn't realize that Biochemistry is technically required for the program. However, I don't think it is required by a lot of med schools, so I'm sure many people just don't take it.

Are there any current formal students reading this? If so, when do you recommend volunteering, shadowing, and working? At the interview, they strongly discouraged doing anything other than school during the first summer semester. For Cohort 4, the course load gets very light starting Spring 2011, so I suppose you can compensate toward the end of the program for holding back on extra curricular activities early on.
 
Also, has anyone else entering Cohort 4 noticed a mistake on the SFSU Class Schedule Search website? It says that the Lab for Chem I is MWF from 10:30-1:20 June 8th - July something, but Calc I is Daily 10:30-12:00 from June 22nd - Aug 14th. I think Chem I is supposed to end Aug 14th as well, and obviously the it seems to conflict with Calc I, and Cohort 4 is supposed to take both this summer.
 
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I was surprised to see Organic Chemistry II before Chemistry II. I was also surprised to see that the lecture and lab for Chemsitry II are scheduled during separate semesters and that the lab was 3 units.

I can't comment on the rest of your post, but judging from what I've heard from other informal post-baccs and first BS students at SFSU, that is the typical sequence of courses here at SFSU for all students. Although I took those classes so long ago at Davis, I do seem to remember that Gen. Chem. 2 and O. Chem don't have much to do with each other at all and thus Gen. Chem. 1 followed by O. Chem is perhaps the more logical order.
 
anyone interested/applied/get in for the dental adjunct at SFSU?
 
I interviewed on Saturday, and I was accepted today.

I'm wondering if people have opinions on the curriculum sequence?

http://online.sfsu.edu/~brothman/formal_program/curriculum.html

I was surprised to see Organic Chemistry II before Chemistry II. I was also surprised to see that the lecture and lab for Chemsitry II are scheduled during separate semesters and that the lab was 3 units.

The tuition is pretty steep for a state school. Do you think the optional concepts or sections classes are worth the money?

I didn't realize that Biochemistry is technically required for the program. However, I don't think it is required by a lot of med schools, so I'm sure many people just don't take it.

Are there any current formal students reading this? If so, when do you recommend volunteering, shadowing, and working? At the interview, they strongly discouraged doing anything other than school during the first summer semester. For Cohort 4, the course load gets very light starting Spring 2011, so I suppose you can compensate toward the end of the program for holding back on extra curricular activities early on.

It's late. I'm bored and happen to see your inquiry. Can't comment on most of it. I graduated with Biology degree here so here goes with these two tidbits.

The curriculum there was developed by Simonis and is designed to give the beginning science student a firm grasp in elements of atomic structure and reactivity followed by a strong foundation in gen chem, so that the last part of organic is less of a drive-by rxn memorization marathon and more of a analytical/logical progression. It's a very nice progression the way they put it together. It will make sense on the back end why they do it that way.

The concept courses were generally good and usually paired you up with a gifted student or even a lab instructor that works on problems with you and gives you insights into each lecturers modus operendi. But for me they were flat rate encompassed by my full-time tuition fees. So it depends what they're charging you in terms of what it'd be worth.

I took gen chem lab with Vannelli--different era--an it was every bit the effort of 3 units and damn near drove me under in terms of sustaining the load of work.

I did a full time schedule their while working full time. If that can be done anywhere it's at SFSU. The instructors are not of the vengeful science weanie variety and so it's a pretty straight up fair game. But I don't subscribe to the theory that one should stress oneself out and carry a cross through this process, so do only what you must and focus on your class work would be my prerogative.

It's a good school. I liked it there. Cost evaluations? Well if you've got the money it's more a question of fit. If you don't then the formal program is not for you--to put it plainly.

Oh one more biggup for this program. I'm on friendly terms with the chap that they recruited to run their Bio lab courses. And I tell you. You will not find a more gracious and gifted teacher anywhere. So they're doing something right. You'll be in good hands there.
 
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I can't comment on the rest of your post, but judging from what I've heard from other informal post-baccs and first BS students at SFSU, that is the typical sequence of courses here at SFSU for all students. Although I took those classes so long ago at Davis, I do seem to remember that Gen. Chem. 2 and O. Chem don't have much to do with each other at all and thus Gen. Chem. 1 followed by O. Chem is perhaps the more logical order.

Just to follow up with what koko_eats said, ocehm and gen chem 2 are completely different, and taking gen chem 2 before ochem 1 will not really make much of a difference. In fact, if you are in a crunch, some people I know take gen chem 2 and ochem 1 at the same time.
 
Thanks for sharing your issues with this program. It's actually solidified my decision to shoot for Mills for fall 2011. Be persistent and good luck!
 
Hi all,

I completed the formal program last year and I'm happy to answer any questions out there. I am also familiar with Berkeley Extention and Mills' program and can help compare pros and cons of those.
 
To premedoenophile:

So, the formal program at SFSU allows you to take any classes? With guarantee (compared to being an open u student)? I need to retake a few classes and also take more upper division classes to extend my upward trend. Which would you rather recommend, formal program at SFSU or the Berkeley extension program? I've been reading about not so pleasant things for Berkeley and am leaning more towards SFSU.

I'm graduating this spring and am looking to enroll in this program to improve my GPA and apply to pharm school. It's either post-bac or MS at University of the Pacific. My overall GPA is 2.9 and sci GPA is around 2.6. I haven't applied to any other places so I think my choices for post-bac programs are limited.
 
Hi all,

I completed the formal program last year and I'm happy to answer any questions out there. I am also familiar with Berkeley Extention and Mills' program and can help compare pros and cons of those.

Hi premedoenophile,

I just sent you a message about the SFSU program.

Lifehouse
 
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As an OOS does anyone know the chances of getting accepted or rejected from the Formal SFSU Pre-Health program? The school seems pretty competitive to get into from the undergraduate perspective, but for the Pre-Health program does anyone know someone who got rejected? :confused:

Also, in terms of pre-health/pre-med programs, do people think there are better programs on the west coast?

Thanks a lot!
-K
 
As an OOS does anyone know the chances of getting accepted or rejected from the Formal SFSU Pre-Health program? The school seems pretty competitive to get into from the undergraduate perspective, but for the Pre-Health program does anyone know someone who got rejected? :confused:

Also, in terms of pre-health/pre-med programs, do people think there are better programs on the west coast?

Thanks a lot!
-K

Hi,

The Formal program doesn't favor IS students over OOS - think of the program as a mini private school within SFSU. Plently of people are rejected every year, pre- and post-interview.

Mills' med school acceptance rate is about the same as SFSU's (70-90%), but the tuition it nearly double. Not sure about USC's but Scripp's is really high...but it's also in Pomona, not SF.
 
Hi all,

I completed the formal program last year and I'm happy to answer any questions out there. I am also familiar with Berkeley Extention and Mills' program and can help compare pros and cons of those.

Hi premedoenophile,

I would love to hear more about the formal program. First, how difficult would you say it is to get in? From what I've read on the program website, there are about 50-60 seats available - do you know how many people apply per year?

Were you able to get into a good number of upper division courses? I know the formal program suggests taking at least 2 before applying to med. school...are enrolling into these classes similar to the pre-reqs or is it like open university with the rest of the student population?

Last, what were some things you found particularly useful in the program and things that weren't useful? Thanks!
 
Hi premedoenophile,

I would love to hear more about the formal program. First, how difficult would you say it is to get in? From what I've read on the program website, there are about 50-60 seats available - do you know how many people apply per year?

Were you able to get into a good number of upper division courses? I know the formal program suggests taking at least 2 before applying to med. school...are enrolling into these classes similar to the pre-reqs or is it like open university with the rest of the student population?

Last, what were some things you found particularly useful in the program and things that weren't useful? Thanks!

Hi psych,

Last year about 150 people applied for the 50 spots.

An important fact is when the program runs. It runs summer I - fall I - spring I - summer II - fall II - spring II (free) - and then that summer you apply.

Basically taking electives is up to your own initiative, but if you want them, the program will make it happen for you in a few ways:

1. Time - the program runs year-round (summer semester as well as spring and fall) so you end up with the second spring semester free for test prep and electives. Keep in mind that you can also take electives during the other semesters (if you can handle it, the schedule is already pretty rigorous) and during the summer after the program ie while you're applying. This is one of the main pros vs. Mills' program, because they don't take classes in the summer which means they have no time for test prep or electives. They have to take an extra year off (yes, in addition to the glide year) or study for the mcat/dat/gre (gre for pre-vets) while taking their normal full load of classes, which for them, i the last spring semester, is physics II and o chem II. At SFSU we take physics and o chem before the bio series because that way bio is more of a "capstone" course...you understand all the chem and o chem and physics in bio, and get out of it a much more sophisticated level of understanding.

2. Availability - as long as about 10 or so formals want to take a certain elective, the program director will set up a special section of the course JUST for you (at formal tuition price). If less than the requisite number of formals want the class/schedules conflict, the program director will guarantee your admission into virtually any undergrad/already-exisiting sections of the class (at undergrad tuition price). If you take one of the program's core courses with undergrads (for example if you fail or drop a course and fall behind) the tuition remains at the formal rate.

For example, I took Stats one semester w/ undergrads because no one else wanted to take it. Another semester about 7 of us took Physiology with undergrads. In the second fall semester, about everyone in my cohort took Biochemistry as an elective - about 20 of us in Gen Biochem w/undergrads and the other 5-6 in a special formal section of Biochem I. In the last summer a cohort-friend and I took Cell Bio w/undergrads.

A post bac once told me when I was starting out that the "triology" of pre-med electives is Genetics, Cell Bio and Physiology. I took two of those three. Biochem is required by many med schools and "strongly recommended" by almost all the rest, that's why I and nearly everyone in my group took it as well. It's unofficially built-in to the formal program now and required by so many med schools which is why I personally don't consider it an elective.

What's not useful? The program director mandates that all incoming cohorts take the "CIC seminar" during the first semester, which for cohort 5 would be this summer. Basically this is a like a group therapy session of sorts. My cohort was the last one to NOT be required to take it, for which I'm glad because personally CIC didn't do it for me. But it's only for the first semester and some people really like it. It's designed to help people manage the stress of transitioning to taking classes, esp such a rigorous schedule. What else? Labs are sometimes of questionable quality but hey, remember that SFSU is a state school under great financial stress.

The best thing, hands-down, about the program is the cohort structure. Imagine having 50 phone numbers to call when you have a questions, 50 study buddies, 50 friends in all of your classes (at least a good number of the 50). My group, at least, was very, very close.



I hope this helps!
 
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Has anyone applied for admissions this year? If so, has anyone heard back from SFSU and received an interview?
 
Thanks so much for all this useful information, premedoenophile! It was certainly very helpful. I just had a few more follow-up questions, if you don't mind :)

First, a lot of the "trilogy" electives you mentioned require you to take the pre-requisites first. Seeing the sequence of classes on the website, did you end up just taking all of these electives (besides Stats.) during the spring/summer you were taking the MCAT/applying?

Second, I noticed on the curriculum that most semesters have students take a maximum of 12 units (usually less). Was this an issue for an adcoms when you interviewed since you weren't taking a full courseload during many of the semesters?

Third, do you know if it matters if you applied earlier in the cycle (such as now) versus towards the deadline? I know it has been a while since you applied but do they normally just continually look at applications as they come in or just wait until the deadline and then make interview choices?

And last, on the same note, do you know if everyone was required to interview? Any tips for the interview if you remember your own? You are the best :) and congrats on your med. school acceptances!

Psych,

It's my honest pleasure to answer your questions!

1. We take Bio I in the second summer so you could take electives in both the second fall and spring. The only classes scheduled for the second fall are the Gen Chem II lab, Bio II lecture and Bio II lab. This leaves room for at LEAST one elective and lots of people, including me, took two. This is when I took Physiology and Biochem. Others took an elective in the following spring while prepping for the MCAT (I didn't, I focused on test prep and did lots of clinical research stuff) and many, including me, took electives during the summer while applying. I only took Cell Bio but others took two classes. I don't recommend this as filling out secondaries takes a LOT of time.

While we're on the topic I'd like to mention that SFSU has a new program this year, the Academic Enhancer (AE) program. The 'normal' formal program has been named the Career Changer program and besides the name, is unchanged. The AE is for people who have taken all or nearly all prereqs but have done poorly in them and want to retake some and/or take lots of upper-div classes to show a change in academic performance and boost GPA.

2. No adcoms commented on my schedule (but I always did very well). I think the schedule is very rigorous...12 units of prereqs is not the same as 12 units of general classes. Mills' kids take the same number of classes per semester. I wouldn't worry about this.

3. Admissions is rolling and decisions are made on a rolling basis. You'll be at no disadvantage if you applied now. I believe this year's deadline is March 15. Everyone is required to interview but it may be possible for those who live too far to travel to arrange a video-chat interview, for example via Skype. I was in Paris, on the phone and in my pajamas for my interview : ) There are two interviews, usually one with the program director or the Admissions coordinator and the other with a student.

Are you thinking about applying?

cheers,
pmo
 
@Lifehouse

I actually put my application in last week, but haven't heard anything back yet. I did have the chance to talk to someone at admissions about the process. Basically the cut off date is in March, but the admissions are "rolling." Therefore, the earlier you apply to the program, the better off you might be.

They also told me that I should hear if I get an interview in 1-2 weeks of submitting my application. If I get an interview, I'll be sure to post it here.
 
To premedoenophile:

So, the formal program at SFSU allows you to take any classes? With guarantee (compared to being an open u student)? I need to retake a few classes and also take more upper division classes to extend my upward trend. Which would you rather recommend, formal program at SFSU or the Berkeley extension program? I've been reading about not so pleasant things for Berkeley and am leaning more towards SFSU.

I'm graduating this spring and am looking to enroll in this program to improve my GPA and apply to pharm school. It's either post-bac or MS at University of the Pacific. My overall GPA is 2.9 and sci GPA is around 2.6. I haven't applied to any other places so I think my choices for post-bac programs are limited.

Hi Misschopstix,

I somehow missed your message earlier; sorry for the delay in responding.

SFSU has a new program, the Academic Enhancer program, which is for those who have taken most core prereqs but have not performed at their best. In this program you are guaranteed a spot in the core classes you want to repeat - you take these classes with one of the cohorts doing the Career Changer program (haven't taken any or little prereqs at all) as well as some electives like upper-div classes. The electives could be taken in a formal setting if the timing is right/other formal pbs want the elective too, or in an undergraduate setting. Your spot in the formal classes would be guaranteed of course and Dr Rothman can guarantee you a spot in most electives.

The program is competitive, though, and there is a 2.5 minimum GPA to which you're pretty close.

Which classes do you want to retake and take? If you need more than 2-3 I would suggest SFSU's program. Your spots are guaranteed so you can do your post bac in a more timely manner, and you get to take classes with lots of the same people (all the same for those in the Career Changer/normal formal program).

There are also programs at lots of other CSUs that resemble SFSU's now-defunct informal program. If you don't get into SFSU, or are looking for something less structured/more independent I would look into those. I think there are programs at CSULA, CSUN and CSUEB (this one is just starting this year I think).

Best of luck. It doesn't hurt to apply to the program just to see if it's an option.
 
Has anyone applied for admissions this year? If so, has anyone heard back from SFSU and received an interview?

Lifehouse, my application was considered complete on 1/25, on 2/5 they called me to come interview in March (which I actually missed the call and didn't realize I had a voicemail) and so on 2/8 I was emailed to come interview.
 
Lifehouse, my application was considered complete on 1/25, on 2/5 they called me to come interview in March (which I actually missed the call and didn't realize I had a voicemail) and so on 2/8 I was emailed to come interview.

Thanks for the update, epione. My application isn't complete, so I haven't heard back yet. Good luck with your interview.
 
Thanks for the update, epione. My application isn't complete, so I haven't heard back yet. Good luck with your interview.

Thanks. I agree with what afuzzyllama said above. They seem to get back to you fairly quickly (couple of weeks), once your application is complete. So... complete it! :]
 
Thanks. I agree with what afuzzyllama said above. They seem to get back to you fairly quickly (couple of weeks), once your application is complete. So... complete it! :]

Just sent you a PM, epione. :)
 
I just heard about this program and in the process of applying. Does anyone know how competitive you have to be to enter the program or how many applicants there are? The cutoff GPA is 2.5, but what is the average accepted gpa, if anyone knows? Looks like a great program though, and SF would be great to be in for a few years.
 
I just heard about this program and in the process of applying. Does anyone know how competitive you have to be to enter the program or how many applicants there are? The cutoff GPA is 2.5, but what is the average accepted gpa, if anyone knows? Looks like a great program though, and SF would be great to be in for a few years.

Last year about 150 people applied for the 50 spots (look a few posts up), but this year they introduced a new "enhancer" program for about 20 people in addition to the old program.
 
Last year about 150 people applied for the 50 spots (look a few posts up), but this year they introduced a new "enhancer" program for about 20 people in addition to the old program.

Ah thanks. I seemed to have mssed that. I looked on the website and saw the academic enhancement track. 20 or so spots, I wonder what gpa will be to be competitive. I'd assume that since this is a gpa fixer the gpas should be 3ish...
 
Hi to everyone out there:

does anyone know whether or not the sfsu formal program allows its students to finish in one year. the program is set up for 2 years but has anyone heard of justing doing the necessary bio, chem, org chem, and physics (8 classes) and then leaving the sfsu program?

thanks.
 
To those that have been offered an interview, do you mind sharing your stats?
 
GPA: 3.89
SATM: 720, SATV: 620 = SAT 1340

not really sure what other stats you're looking for.
 
Dang those are very good stats. I hope the AET app gpa isn't too high, it is for gpa repairing. Are sat scores mandatory?
 
GPA and MCAT stats?

Lucky, I posted my GPA. I'm would be a CCT student, not AET, and thus have not taken the majority of prereqs for med school.. so no MCAT.

And LastPolarBear, thanks. :] But yeah, I would be in the CCT pool, as I mentioned. I don't remember exactly, but I think I had to give some sort of standardized test result (SAT, ACT, GRE, etc.).
 
Epione, thanks and congrats on that great gpa! I'm applying for the AET route so i was just curious as to what stats were needed for an interview.
 
Epione, thanks and congrats on that great gpa! I'm applying for the AET route so i was just curious as to what stats were needed for an interview.

Same here! Have you applied to any of the other CSU's, or even the UC Berkley extension?
 
LastPolarBear, I am applying to CSU-LA but I'm not as familiar with the program and am unsure what the success rate of getting into a DO/MD School is?
 
LastPolarBear, I am applying to CSU-LA but I'm not as familiar with the program and am unsure what the success rate of getting into a DO/MD School is?

I'm also applying to CSULA, near my hometown so I hope it works out. I actually just called them earlier this week to ask them about their program, but I'm also not sure of the success rate over there.
 
I just got invited for an interview for the AET track. I'm a senior and currently have a ~3.3 and no MCAT. I got two F's in my freshmen year, one of which was Biology and I retook and got a B-...yeah I wasn't very motivated back then. I might want to retake it a third time at SFSU...I'm not too sure if that's a good idea. Other than that, I got mostly A's and some B's, and a C in Chemistry (which I took in freshman year also) in my pre-req classes.

So, that's enough with my stat. My question for this program is: I'm currently an out of state student, living in the East Coast...I don't really want to fly all the way to Cali just for a post-bacc interview. Plus, I'm extremely busy this semester...taking 23 credits. I know that they can do the interview on Skype too. Do you think it's a good idea to actually visit the school or just interview online?

My other question is...actually, how good is this program? It looks very formal from the application point of view, very similar to AAMCAS...but two years is a bit too long for a post-bacc program...and my grades aren't that bad to sacrifice two years. So, yeah...how good is this program in terms of helping students getting into medical school?
 
I just got invited for an interview for the AET track. I'm a senior and currently have a ~3.3 and no MCAT. I got two F's in my freshmen year, one of which was Biology and I retook and got a B-...yeah I wasn't very motivated back then. I might want to retake it a third time at SFSU...I'm not too sure if that's a good idea. Other than that, I got mostly A's and some B's, and a C in Chemistry (which I took in freshman year also) in my pre-req classes.

So, that's enough with my stat. My question for this program is: I'm currently an out of state student, living in the East Coast...I don't really want to fly all the way to Cali just for a post-bacc interview. Plus, I'm extremely busy this semester...taking 23 credits. I know that they can do the interview on Skype too. Do you think it's a good idea to actually visit the school or just interview online?

My other question is...actually, how good is this program? It looks very formal from the application point of view, very similar to AAMCAS...but two years is a bit too long for a post-bacc program...and my grades aren't that bad to sacrifice two years. So, yeah...how good is this program in terms of helping students getting into medical school?


I could be wrong, but I was under the impression you don't need to complete the whole two years.

edit: Oh yeah, for the application, did anyone here NOT waive their right to view recommendations? Just wondering.
 
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I could be wrong, but I was under the impression you don't need to complete the whole two years.

edit: Oh yeah, for the application, did anyone here NOT waive their right to view recommendations? Just wondering.

I'm not too sure...They have this cohort thing...seems very structured but just time consuming. I don't really need to retake any pre-req classes for med school...so, I'll take a bunch of advance science classes. Two years for that...I think a master degree would be better? But if this program is just as good as Johns Hopkins', where they said virtually 100% of their class got into med school (too bad, they don't have the academic route)...would be something that I want to stay for two years.

PS: I waived.
 
I'm not too sure...They have this cohort thing...seems very structured but just time consuming. I don't really need to retake any pre-req classes for med school...so, I'll take a bunch of advance science classes. Two years for that...I think a master degree would be better? But if this program is just as good as Johns Hopkins', where they said virtually 100% of their class got into med school (too bad, they don't have the academic route)...would be something that I want to stay for two years.

PS: I waived.

Yeah, you're right two years is a long time. However, I think a normal masters wouldn't be better for the most part because it doesnt raise your undergrad gpa.

I think I'll waive too.
 
Just to clarify: the AET is not two years. It's as long as you need it to be - ie if you only need to take 2 or 3 semesters of classes to get your GPA to where you need it, then you only do post bac for those semesters. The program director helps advise post bacs on which classes to retake or take.

The CCT is 2 years (technically 1.5 years) as are many other formal programs. This time allows plenty of time for volunteering and electives, which are important for being a well-rounded applicant.

Here are some handy email addresses I scrounged up from the program director:

[email protected] for general questions and questions about visiting the school or sitting in on classes
[email protected] for general questions and questions specific to your application or admissions

Hope this helps!
 
So, they ask for the interview in person...I was wondering if I could request to stay on campus with current student overnight before the interview? Would this be possible?
 
So, they ask for the interview in person...I was wondering if I could request to stay on campus with current student overnight before the interview? Would this be possible?

If it's too far to travel you can request a Skype interview - I know they do this for people who are out of the country or really far away. On the downside you don't get to meet other applicants or see the school at all.
 
Are you notified of their decision a few weeks after interview?
 
If it's too far to travel you can request a Skype interview - I know they do this for people who are out of the country or really far away. On the downside you don't get to meet other applicants or see the school at all.

Actually I asked them and they said no, they don't have the student host program. I have to spend more money for hotel now... I really want to do Skype though, and I told them I'm from the East Coast...doesn't seem like they care. They really are treating this almost like medical school.
 
Actually I asked them and they said no, they don't have the student host program. I have to spend more money for hotel now... I really want to do Skype though, and I told them I'm from the East Coast...doesn't seem like they care. They really are treating this almost like medical school.


You asked if you could have a Skype interview and they said no?
 
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