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Anybody want to say something about UW??
OMFS Programs Overview
- Thread starter Squished Rat
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bump
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This is the kind of post that should be stickied in this forum.
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The Columbia Program will give you good experience in implants, sinus lifts, wisdom teeth, craniofacial, orthognathics and some pathology. Implants have skyrocketed: interns place a good amounts and chiefs do 300-400 in chief year. The program does a lot of orthognathics in the summer and has a solid amount of craniofacial patients.
Eisig is the chairman, and he probably is one of the most resident friendly guys.
Carrao is assistant program director, and he works well with the residents.
Eisig is the chairman, and he probably is one of the most resident friendly guys.
Carrao is assistant program director, and he works well with the residents.
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Whats the word on USC's program? any residents want to chime in?
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I heard the chairman is the LEAST friendly...he yells at everyone ( if you are not female) ..go ask Columbia dental school grads... but I heard Dr Carrao is SUPER cool, he is like a Godfather to his residents and truly care about his residents.
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I second this request! I would really like a thorough description of the residency. Thanks!
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Dr. Eisig is actually really good to his residents. He yells at the dental students. This is coming from a 4th year dental student at Columbia starting an OMFS residency in July. Dr. Eisig is a great chairman.
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Well, when i was a 4th year dental student attending one of the morning rounds, he tore up a resident for a poor presentation. He was never brutal to the dental students, but to residents, he could be seen as somewhat of a tyrant.
Also, when he found out that certain students in my class matched into OMFS residency, he started bad-mouthing those programs for accepting inferior students. Not very tactful, IMHO.
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I was waiting for someone to answer that question. I matched with USC, but I don't know that much about the program. There's just not as much info on the program on SDN, which doesn't seem to have as much west coast students/residents. Here's what I know; the program is intense, lots of work, tons of trauma. 3 spots, 2 6 year, 1 4 year, and also one intern. Their interns often get the 4 year spot, but not always. Med school tuition is 3 years offset by a scholarship for the first year only. 34 months of OMS in the 6 year track(4 months during surgery internship). 38 months in 4 year track. Residents cut most of the cases. Residency is spent mostly in LA county hospital (LAC), new building is very nice and I think the move in date is in September. The residents I met were very friendly, a lot of USC dental school graduates.
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Not if you have boobs.
Columbia is a decent program if you want the private practice residency, but they get NO trauma. Probably do less than a dozen cases a year, and will only know how to trach someone in theory.
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3/6 yr year just wrapping up med school.
anesthesia: 4 months
trauma: heavy
cancer/airway: none, ENT handles the HN cancer in our hospital
implants: more than you would think given our patient pool, more than sufficient
dentoalveolar: plenty in our clinic and at the dental school
call: in house
residents: there will always be "black sheep" in every program but to my knowledge, everyone gets along, everyone is friendly
our program is a resident run program. i have a good time when i am on service but do find myself exhausted. cool people, you treat the underserved, and it's in LA. if you really want to know what the program is like, i would suggest an externship. sorry this is so brief as i am post call and ready to sleep.
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HOT.
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Shabu,
17 Columbia students (depending on how many you give interviews) will be looking for housing down in Atlanta come interview time.
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keep it comin' awesome thread....
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I heard after the piss poor performance of this years interns..columbia students would get a second look...better hope kings calls! haha
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Let me break this down for you!
Number of Residents a year: Two
Number of Full-Time Faculty: Five
1) Braun: dean of dental school, chiefs usually operates with him, 3rds and total joints
2) Ochs: Chairman, chiefs usually operates with him, 75% of his cases are orthognathics, 15% implants, and 10% 3rds
3) Costello: Program Director, craniofacial fellow and a junior chief usually operates with him, mainly operates on children
4) Chung: Director of one of the hospital's dental clinic, a junior chief always operates with him, 3rds and lots of TMJ cases
5) Sosovicka: director of pre-doc OMFS clinic at the dental school, interns usually works with him on 3rds
Number of Hospital covered: Eight
Presbyterian: main teaching hospital, resident will take facial trauma calls and round here
Children's: main teaching hospital, resident will take facial trauma calls and round here
Montefiore: main teaching hospital, resident will take facial trauma calls and round here
Mercy: adjunct hospital where adjunct faculty operates, residents will round here
VA: adjunct hospital, where adjunct faculty operates, interns will rotate here, interns will have calls from here
Jefferson: adjunct hospital where adjunct faculty operates, no calls
Shadyside: adjunct hospital where adjunct faculty operates, residents will round here
McGee: Women's hospital where residents will take consult calls from
Positives:
Resident Work Schedule: This program is very family friendly. If you're not on call for the night, you will be home by 6 or 7 PM that's including traffic getting home.
Trauma Post-call time off: At noon on the day after your trauma call night, you get to go home for the day.
Trauma Calls: Pitt OMFS team is only on facial trauma call on every 3rd week (splitting between ENT and Plastics). So if you're an intern or a first year resident, you'll only be on facial trauma call 2-3 times a month that will require you to stay in-house! Since this program do take "tooth" calls during the weeks that are non-facial trauma calls, an intern or a first-year resident will only have maybe 10 call night total in a month where 3 of which are facial trauma calls.
Paid in Medical School years: Residentswill receive a full annual resident stipend during years medical school. The down side, as medical students, you'll be taking one facial trauma call night during the facial trauma week when the OMFS team is on.
Orthognathics: Chairman trained in North Carolina under Tucker, very strong in orthognathics here. Interns will be exposed to orthognathic here early doing consultations, model surgery, seeing cases.
No MMF/IMF on call nights: Forget about putting them MMFs or IMFs on during the middle of the night when you get a mandible fracture! This program does not believe in it. ALL MMF/IMF are placed in the OR.
If you like sewing: A TON of lacs, you'll become very proficient in closing lacs between the 3 main teaching hospitals. A ton of dog bites at Children's.
Medical School: Great top medical school per US News rankings.
Negatives:
Morning rounds: Whomever was on call, you'll round by yourself on all the inpatients before each morning team meeting that will be in a conference room, you'll present all in-patients, consults, and trauma calls from the 3 main teaching hospitals in that meeting. For example, if you have 6 in-house patients and 6 ER consults, then you'll be presenting 12 patients in the morning team meeting. Yes, all by yourself! Then the team divides up to see various inpatients and/or ER consulted patients.
Selection of cases: the scope of training you get here in this program is COMPLETELY dictated by what the faculty member likes to operate on. All patients are faculty patients. For example, if faculty members wants to do orthognathics, you can't say, may I do a cosmetic case? Basically, all chief residents do 1/2 of the case, no freedom to other surgeries. Training solely based on what cases faculty has, Chiefs will have no freedom to choose what (s)he wants to be trained in.
Lack in broad scope:
Cosmetics: there is an adjunct faculty here that is facial comestically trained, but residents rarely does any plastics with him. You'll see random rhinoplasty from time to time in an orthognathic case, but if you want comestics, then this is NOT the program for you.
Implants: I would say it's OK, I've seen chiefs have done them, but it's like placing one here this week and one there next month. Mainly just Dr. Ochs that does them.
Oncology: all goes to ENT
Dr. Chung: completely a douche bag. Arrogant, malignant, condensenting, tries to be cool with residents, and lacks professionalism in ORs. Every dental student at Pitts is aware of this Wangchung.
Hospitals are EVERYWHERE: since this program covers eight hospitals, you as residents WILL walk freaking everywhere, outside, tunnels, skyways, and you'll have to walk FAST! Most programs you'll stay in this huge medical complex in one central location, this is not the program for you if you don't like walking 50 miles in a day! If any of you had interviewed here, then you'll understand what I'm talking about. For interviews themselves, the program takes you everywhere around town just to meet individual interviewers because they wanted to conduct the interviews in their respective offices!! Ridiculous!
Craniofacial Fellowship: yes, there are only 2 or 3 OMFS craniofacial fellowships out there, but this one is a joke! The fellow pretty much act as a "super chief" and holds sticks for Costello and gets yelled at the entire time! From what I've seen and heard, the fellow maybe does 5 actuall craniofacial cases or so in ONE YEARif they're lucky!! Plastics are very strong here so they get majority of the cases. Don't expect to actually do much if you're in this fellowship, but they'll expect you to be around all the time?!
Publication: it is required that you publish as a resident here, not recommended, but required.
Medical school: 3 years
Conclusion: If you want to be in Pittsburgh, then this OMFS program is the better of the two between Allegheny OMFS. It's truly not that all cracked up to be! Faculty members are not that great, training scope is limited to what faculty operates, and hospitals are everywhere spread around the city. Scale 1 to 10, 10 being LSU or Parkland, this program is a 5.
Number of Residents a year: Two
Number of Full-Time Faculty: Five
1) Braun: dean of dental school, chiefs usually operates with him, 3rds and total joints
2) Ochs: Chairman, chiefs usually operates with him, 75% of his cases are orthognathics, 15% implants, and 10% 3rds
3) Costello: Program Director, craniofacial fellow and a junior chief usually operates with him, mainly operates on children
4) Chung: Director of one of the hospital's dental clinic, a junior chief always operates with him, 3rds and lots of TMJ cases
5) Sosovicka: director of pre-doc OMFS clinic at the dental school, interns usually works with him on 3rds
Number of Hospital covered: Eight
Presbyterian: main teaching hospital, resident will take facial trauma calls and round here
Children's: main teaching hospital, resident will take facial trauma calls and round here
Montefiore: main teaching hospital, resident will take facial trauma calls and round here
Mercy: adjunct hospital where adjunct faculty operates, residents will round here
VA: adjunct hospital, where adjunct faculty operates, interns will rotate here, interns will have calls from here
Jefferson: adjunct hospital where adjunct faculty operates, no calls
Shadyside: adjunct hospital where adjunct faculty operates, residents will round here
McGee: Women's hospital where residents will take consult calls from
Positives:
Resident Work Schedule: This program is very family friendly. If you're not on call for the night, you will be home by 6 or 7 PM that's including traffic getting home.
Trauma Post-call time off: At noon on the day after your trauma call night, you get to go home for the day.
Trauma Calls: Pitt OMFS team is only on facial trauma call on every 3rd week (splitting between ENT and Plastics). So if you're an intern or a first year resident, you'll only be on facial trauma call 2-3 times a month that will require you to stay in-house! Since this program do take "tooth" calls during the weeks that are non-facial trauma calls, an intern or a first-year resident will only have maybe 10 call night total in a month where 3 of which are facial trauma calls.
Paid in Medical School years: Residentswill receive a full annual resident stipend during years medical school. The down side, as medical students, you'll be taking one facial trauma call night during the facial trauma week when the OMFS team is on.
Orthognathics: Chairman trained in North Carolina under Tucker, very strong in orthognathics here. Interns will be exposed to orthognathic here early doing consultations, model surgery, seeing cases.
No MMF/IMF on call nights: Forget about putting them MMFs or IMFs on during the middle of the night when you get a mandible fracture! This program does not believe in it. ALL MMF/IMF are placed in the OR.
If you like sewing: A TON of lacs, you'll become very proficient in closing lacs between the 3 main teaching hospitals. A ton of dog bites at Children's.
Medical School: Great top medical school per US News rankings.
Negatives:
Morning rounds: Whomever was on call, you'll round by yourself on all the inpatients before each morning team meeting that will be in a conference room, you'll present all in-patients, consults, and trauma calls from the 3 main teaching hospitals in that meeting. For example, if you have 6 in-house patients and 6 ER consults, then you'll be presenting 12 patients in the morning team meeting. Yes, all by yourself! Then the team divides up to see various inpatients and/or ER consulted patients.
Selection of cases: the scope of training you get here in this program is COMPLETELY dictated by what the faculty member likes to operate on. All patients are faculty patients. For example, if faculty members wants to do orthognathics, you can't say, may I do a cosmetic case? Basically, all chief residents do 1/2 of the case, no freedom to other surgeries. Training solely based on what cases faculty has, Chiefs will have no freedom to choose what (s)he wants to be trained in.
Lack in broad scope:
Cosmetics: there is an adjunct faculty here that is facial comestically trained, but residents rarely does any plastics with him. You'll see random rhinoplasty from time to time in an orthognathic case, but if you want comestics, then this is NOT the program for you.
Implants: I would say it's OK, I've seen chiefs have done them, but it's like placing one here this week and one there next month. Mainly just Dr. Ochs that does them.
Oncology: all goes to ENT
Dr. Chung: completely a douche bag. Arrogant, malignant, condensenting, tries to be cool with residents, and lacks professionalism in ORs. Every dental student at Pitts is aware of this Wangchung.
Hospitals are EVERYWHERE: since this program covers eight hospitals, you as residents WILL walk freaking everywhere, outside, tunnels, skyways, and you'll have to walk FAST! Most programs you'll stay in this huge medical complex in one central location, this is not the program for you if you don't like walking 50 miles in a day! If any of you had interviewed here, then you'll understand what I'm talking about. For interviews themselves, the program takes you everywhere around town just to meet individual interviewers because they wanted to conduct the interviews in their respective offices!! Ridiculous!
Craniofacial Fellowship: yes, there are only 2 or 3 OMFS craniofacial fellowships out there, but this one is a joke! The fellow pretty much act as a "super chief" and holds sticks for Costello and gets yelled at the entire time! From what I've seen and heard, the fellow maybe does 5 actuall craniofacial cases or so in ONE YEARif they're lucky!! Plastics are very strong here so they get majority of the cases. Don't expect to actually do much if you're in this fellowship, but they'll expect you to be around all the time?!
Publication: it is required that you publish as a resident here, not recommended, but required.
Medical school: 3 years
Conclusion: If you want to be in Pittsburgh, then this OMFS program is the better of the two between Allegheny OMFS. It's truly not that all cracked up to be! Faculty members are not that great, training scope is limited to what faculty operates, and hospitals are everywhere spread around the city. Scale 1 to 10, 10 being LSU or Parkland, this program is a 5.
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Yes...a person from my program did Costello's fellowship....and was VERY disappointed....his experience was similar to what OMS2BBAD said....
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Why not go overseas for your fellowship? (Germany, Switzerland, UK)
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Wow - that's a pretty rough review of the Pittsburgh program. Do most residents feel the same way? When I interviewed there folks seemed pretty pleased for the most part. I thought it seemed like a solid place to train if you're into bread and butter OMS.
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Just a few US OMFS who completed an overseas craniofacial fellowship:
Craniofacial-Paris
Craniofacial-Germany and Netherlands
Craniofacial-Australia
Craniofacial-Australia and Scotland
Craniofacial-Australia and England
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It seems they have had 5 people or so quit the last few years. That is a MAJOR red flag IMO. I would love to know more if anyone does.
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Yes...they have had at least 5 or more people quit/leave over the last few years....don't know the specifics why, but I asked when I interviewed 3 yrs ago and got some shady/non-specific answers.....it was a red flag for me.....you can form your own opinion....
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Yikes!
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Dude,
You know that you should be here with me, not at Maryland. But our loss is their gain. Keep in touch, and congrats on graduation, Dr.
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I am a rising fourth year dental student at Pittsburgh who did a surgery externship at Pittsburgh, and who was once interested in surgery and was an extern at several other programs.
Pittsburgh has a great surgery program, the previous detailed post contains some bias but is about 80% true. I agree with a lot that was said, but don't forget to factor the personal bias of the reporter above.
I know a little about some of the residents that checked out of the program in the past few years. I know that some were kicked out for not doing the work or because they didn't pass boards from the second try, basically you get two shots at it if I am correct. It is not 5 by the way, maybe only 2 or 3 max, because somehow we have 12 residents now!!!
The faculty at Pittsburgh are more than awesome, don't believe everything that you hear. If you end up at Pitt consider yourself lucky, it is a top program and not that easy to get accepted here.
Pittsburgh has a great surgery program, the previous detailed post contains some bias but is about 80% true. I agree with a lot that was said, but don't forget to factor the personal bias of the reporter above.
I know a little about some of the residents that checked out of the program in the past few years. I know that some were kicked out for not doing the work or because they didn't pass boards from the second try, basically you get two shots at it if I am correct. It is not 5 by the way, maybe only 2 or 3 max, because somehow we have 12 residents now!!!
The faculty at Pittsburgh are more than awesome, don't believe everything that you hear. If you end up at Pitt consider yourself lucky, it is a top program and not that easy to get accepted here.
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Considering Pitt doesn't seem to interview anyone w/ below a 95 on boards and they do 3 years of med school, how do people manage to fail the boards twice there? Hmmmmm.......not sure I buy that.
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How many dental students do you personally know that went into dental school with excellent grades and DAT scores, and yet they didn't finish dental school? Things happen in life that deter us as individuals from success.
I know for a fact that students in the past were kicked out of PIT for failing the USMLE. I have no personal interest in not telling the truth or giving bad advice; I am not applying to Surgery nor am I related to one of the faculty!!!
Only a fool would consider not applying to this great program.
I know for a fact that students in the past were kicked out of PIT for failing the USMLE. I have no personal interest in not telling the truth or giving bad advice; I am not applying to Surgery nor am I related to one of the faculty!!!
Only a fool would consider not applying to this great program.
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Servitup has a good point. There are PLENTY of other GREAT programs that are not in Pittsburg. If you are a great candidate your options are many. I have heard great things about Pitt OMFS, but I have also heard the same things the Poster above listed. Pitt interviews less than 20 people a year and all are the country's top candidates. If multiple individuals have failed the USMLE, there is something else going on.
By the way, failing to complete dental school is no way a comparison to getting dismissed from an OMFS program. Most residents have sweated blood to be where they are now and are usually VERY highly motivated and dedicated people. To get get dismissed might be a huge embarrassment to the people and programs alike. Does not happen often.
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I spent a couple weeks at PITT doing an externship. From my knowledge there has been 1 person who failed the USMLE...he was a guy who started at one of the LSU programs..failed there...than PITT gave him a chance..he failed at pitt. From there I think the rumors just grew that multiple people from PITT failed.
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I feel like a schmuck sticking up for this program...but Costello told me that the med school basically has the OMFS program by the balls. He submits around 15-20 or so applications and the med school usually shoots about half of them down...
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I am also a current fourth year at Pitt, I am not applying to the OMFS but if I were, Pitt would be my top choice. The faculty as well as the residents are all extremely nice and very willing to teach and guide students through procedures. The above poster OMS2BBAD lacks professionalism himself by calling Dr. Chung a "douche bag." Dr. Chung has very high expectations from his students but is a very good teacher and I've personally learned a lot of from him. As for the students leaving the program, I am not sure of the number, I know one did not pass his USMLE twice, and another left because he decided OMFS was not for him....people are allowed to change their mind. You shouldn't base your decisions on Pitt based on RUMORS about passed students, but try to contact the current residents that are in the program now.
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I thought it was a decent program when I externed there. A good mix of everything, though it should be noted that they don't do cosmetics there.
The attendings, contrary to what I had heard, are pretty nice, with few exceptions. However, they are tough on the residents from time to time and I think this gets interpreted as malignancy.
Pros:
-Good orthognathic/craniofacial experience (lots of orthognathic cases at MGH, the junior/chief residents spend a total of 8 months doing orthognathic/craniofacial at Boston Children's Hospital).
-Ambulatory experience is decent - a reasonable number of implants (I recall each chief saying they had done around 100-150), good number of grafts and sinus lifts, tons of wizzies, certainly enough that a variety is seen.
-TMJ - full gamut of TMJ operations (everything from arthroplasties, CCG to full custom joint replacements)
-Trauma - again, certainly enough to get a good experience. Face call is divided evenly between OMFS and Plastics - ENT is not involved in the facial trauma coverage at MGH (in fact, while I was there, the ENT senior residents would scrub as assists on the OMFS trauma cases because they don't see enough on their own). No anatomical limitations, with the typical exception that isolated mandible fractures are always OMFS. Lots of mandibles, ZMCs, LFs; orbits/frontal sinus panfacial probably average
-Don't have to do the 2nd year of medical school (though, for some, this may be a con)
-Only two years of med school (total time in med school is actually 18 months, with additional 4 months of anesthesia and 2 months OMFS)
Cons:
-Medical school is expensive
-Boston is expensive
-You won't see lots of knife and gun club stuff (I recall the chief resident telling me that they had only see 2 GSWs to the face the entire year) - most of that stuff goes to Boston Medical Center (BU)
-No cosmetics (though they do apparently spend 2-3 months on plastics, so there is some exposure)
-Minimal malignant pathology (though, for some, like me, this is a BIG PRO)
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Anyone know anything about NYU's program?
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For all those who interview at LSU-NO.... You guys should try to take some time to visit Baton Rouge because it has become a very large rotation in our program. We do just as much in BR (with the exception of cancer) as we do in NO. Plenty of cosmetics and reconstruction gets done in BR.
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It's an oldie, but a goodie(s).
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For everybody that matched or interviewed at programs this year it would be great to keep this resource going. If you have new places to add, then definitely do it. And if you have places that are already on the list then update the information as you see fit. Also, for the guys that matched or did internships last year add some information about your programs. Thanks so much from all future applicants.
