OMFS Programs Overview

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omfsskin said:
Another thing I thought I should mention is the on-call situation, there is no post call, so on-call typically lasts from 6am until 6am the following morning and then you have to go over to the "tooth pulling" clinic to see how many teeth you can grab lol, so your day ends around 6pm, thats 36 hours straight! And you can do this up to 3 or 4 times a week.

Also, you are on call until you are in 5th year :eek: because the 4th years in medical school are like interns all over again in general surgery!

All I am commenting on is if you want tons and tons and TONS of the same trauma every day to the point of where it becomes boring, and take out teeth in an overbooked clinic and live in the middle of nowhere then this is definitely the program for you!
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Oh horrors, working for 36 hours straight! Pretty normal for an OMFS residency- even working 48- 72 hours straight is normal. Most of the programs I know don't follow the GME rules and send you home after 30 hours. And also don't give you 1/7 off. You learn a lot during those hours- not just about patient care, but about yourself.

I also don't think it is unusual to share call until the fifth year. Every program divides call differently. In a lot of places it is divided evenly among all residents on service for the month. I even know chief residents that take first call if needed- OMG can you believe it?!

A lot of residencies have a point and pull clinic. They improve your competency in dentoalveolar- the only way to get very proficient is to take out a lot of teeth! And you want to learn how to manage difficult patients in residency- I always had 3 rules- you sit still, you don't swear and you don't yell and I will take out your tooth. If not- there is the door.

I know nothing about LSU-S, and am not going to make any comments about the program directly.

At this point most people could figure out who you are, and I can tell you I would have no interest in someone who complains about having to work 36 hours straight, taking call in your senior years and a point and pull clinic. You are the type of person I don't want in my field. If you really love OMFS, and are not in it for the $$, you would embrace these opportunities and take the chance to learn as much as you can during those times. May I suggest a "gentler" residency such as perio so you can get a good night's sleep.
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I am an intern at Shreveport and I have to tell you I am pretty upset by what omfsskin has mentioned. I will give you a month by month description of what I believe this great program has to offer, although I have only been here a few months and by no means consider myself an authority on it.

Year 1: you begin by being paired on call for the first month (which happens to be a trauma month since we cover trauma every odd numbered month and ENT has even numbered months, although we still do isolated mandibles on even numbered months). The 2 categorical positions are paired with the 2 fifth year residents, the 2 non-categorical positions are paired with the 2 third year residents. It was a great month, learned a ton and was given the freedom and assurance that I could do things on my own and have back-up if situations arose that I felt were beyond my abilities at that point. Believe me you walk away knowing your stuff.

You also will do 2 months of ER rotation where you function as an ER intern. In the beginning it was tough since you really dont learn much of that stuff while in dental school, but you suck it up and learn and come out that much stronger. The 2 categoricals have a sedation course they attend for one week and also have a 2 month long history & physical exam course taken with the PA students. Monday and Friday mornings are sedation days in the clinic where full bonies are extracted by the interns. From day 1 we were expected to have studied the sedation material, start IVs, have the nurses push meds, and extract the full bony wizzies ourselves. You also have anywhere from 5-10 prisoners who show up for wizzies under local. Believe me Dr. Palmieri and a 5th year are there to make sure that you are comfortable, but you are given the opportunity to do as much of the case as you desire. That is a lot of full bony impactions last I checked. M & F afternoons are reserved for fracture f/u and cancer f/u, with new fractures coming in for work up for the OR. On Tuesdays and Thursdays, you do straight point and pull. There are a ton of patients and we do work multiple rooms, but last I checked that actually HELPS you learn and teaches you how to run an efficient practice. Wednesday mornings is a designated OR day for everyone, we have 2 rooms going. The interns are expected to be prepared for the days cases, to write orders, to scrub in and assist until 1pm where we then go to clinic and run minor procedures such as fmx, tori removal, biopsies, tmj, and any walk-ins with infections (which happens daily).

Orthognathic conference is held every 3rd monday, case presentations every other Monday, lectures between those mondays, tumor board one monday a month, and pathology conference quarterly.

The categoricals also get one full month off to study for Step 1.

I have no complaints whatsoever. Managing a cancer patient will teach you more in one night than you could possibly imagine. If you don't want to work hard then this isn't the place for you. Patient census can range anywhere from 1 patient in house to 13 patients. You are expected to pre-round on all in-house patients as well as all consults and to have everything ready for rounds every morning to present to the chiefs.

Year 2 is all of 3rd year med school.

Year 3 you are in OMFS for 6 months, 4 months of med school, with research months and what not thrown in. You go to the OR daily while on service. You cut several cases per week. You work half the time on service with Dr. Ghali in his private clinic, and half the time with Dr. Kim in his private clinic. THAT is where u get the beginning of cosmetics and you get to see what those two true superstars of the field are capable of. And that continues years 5 and 6.

Year 4 is spent with 6 months of general surgery, split between trauma, SICU, burn, plastics, transplant. 4 months of anesthesia. 2 months back on OMFS service.

Years 5 and 6 are all OMFS. You are entitled to your opinion, but 2 weeks worth of information does not make you an authority on a program that is known by pretty much everyone in the field as one of the best in the country. I have no doubt that graduates of this program will come out of here very well-trained surgeons. If you want to be somewhere where you know you are expected to be prepared, to work hard, and are given the freedom to be the very best surgeon you can be, then I believe Shreveport would be 100% for you.

If anyone has any other questions, please contact someone who sees it daily, not someone who spent 2 weeks here.
 
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Give this man a Purple Heart, cause he just shot himself in the foot!
 
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Does anybody know how many years of med school are in Gainesville? A post from a year+ ago in this thread said it was a year.

During this year can you commute from Jacksonville or would you have to move? Any insight would help. Thanks!
 
oho. smelling a little troll here.. I externed at Shreveport; was an awesome experience and I would have to agree with what Cheeks1038 stated; Must I add from my limited prospective I thought the resident were a great team and had each others' back 100%. I'm more familiar with UMKC than any of the other programs I externed; so PM me if you were wanting to get a scope on it.

At any rates, Can any one shed some light on OMFS programs in Maryland and Drexel?
 
I am simply giving my point of view, i appreciate their response and I understand that naturally they would defend their program, but lets remember that this is a discussion forum, sometimes the news we hear is not always good! I advise anyone to read BOTH mine and theirs, I cant be more fair than that, you are just slamming my opinion and saying it is lies etc, it is NOT. I didnt say all the residents were bad, I am just commenting on the FACT that I did hear a lot of backstabbing from different residents about each other while I was there! Fact! we all know it only takes a few bad apples to ruin the bunch! And I dont want to be a part of that because you have to work with those people for the next 4 or 6 years!

Anyways lets move on, Maryland was good for me, you hear a lot of people say the people there are malignant etc but they were actually very nice with me. Unlike Shreveport it is not a resident led program, they have a lot of faculty that are FULL TIME (ie there 6am to 6pm or more EVERY day) and Ord is very famous on Onc if you like that. The rounds are led by the faculty and not by residents, so during rounds you learn a lot!

Hope this helps! Just extern as many places as possible!
 
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Sweet!! I started the thread with the most views for the forum. My life is complete now.:D
 
Allow me to add to this discussion.

I agree with OMSSKIN he has a right to his opinion. Its always great to hear the other side of a program. I think most things that are posted on this site are exaggerated anyway.

However, OMSSKIN I think you went too far by speaking ill of Dr. Ghali. Not cool man! You never should say bad things about colleagues. Guess what patients "google" their doctors and what if someone read what you wrote. If you don't like the program just say so, no need to say names. Not cool! Your lucky if he doesn't call your Dean and gets you in serious trouble.

Guys, let's not defend working 36 hour shifts. This is something that OMFS is getting away with because we are under CODA and not ACGME. No OMFS residents like being in the hospital for 36 hours and missing time with their family and friends, or working out or just getting more sleep. It is what it is, but lets not defend it.

I think this discussion brings up a great point. There is no such thing as a perfect program. The key to residency is to finish it and not be pissed at the world because you hated your life for 4-6 years. Who cares if you 150 orthognathic cases or 20 in your residency. Just go where you will be the happiest. When having these discussions let's just remember that talking about how much a particular person makes, talking about their clinical abilities or personality is not cool. This site is as accessible to a dental student as it is to someone who is about to have major reconstructive surgery and wants to learn more about their surgeon. Be respectful of your colleagues.
 
DrTacoElf said:
Hey omfsskin you have no idea about OMFS man. I externed at LSU-S for 1 month a year ago. Its a very strong program with tons of OR exposure and clinic exposure. Its a big plus attendings aren't hovering over you at all times. We are the same at LSU-NO where I am now. Granted we don't have faculty that does free tissue transfer yet but we have done quite a few cancer cases as of late. You will learn 10x as much from these patients. And as for the 36-48 hours straight of work - get used to it any real program will have you doing this. So you can scratch all the big players off your list.
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Like I said ONE full time faculty, and a resident led program. And like I also said I rest my case, lets move on, I wont back down from my opinion, it is my opinion and thats what a discussion forum is for, good and bad points!
 
omfsskin said:
I am simply giving my point of view, i appreciate their response and I understand that naturally they would defend their program, but lets remember that this is a discussion forum, sometimes the news we hear is not always good! I advise anyone to read BOTH mine and theirs, I cant be more fair than that, you are just slamming my opinion and saying it is lies etc, it is NOT. I didnt say all the residents were bad, I am just commenting on the FACT that I did hear a lot of backstabbing from different residents about each other while I was there! Fact! we all know it only takes a few bad apples to ruin the bunch! And I dont want to be a part of that because you have to work with those people for the next 4 or 6 years!

Anyways lets move on, Maryland was good for me, you hear a lot of people say the people there are malignant etc but they were actually very nice with me. Unlike Shreveport it is not a resident led program, they have a lot of faculty that are FULL TIME (ie there 6am to 6pm or more EVERY day) and Ord is very famous on Onc if you like that. The rounds are led by the faculty and not by residents, so during rounds you learn a lot!

Hope this helps! Just extern as many places as possible!
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Dude, seriously you gotta quit putting your foot in your mouth. OMFS is comprised of a relatively small community of faculty, private practice guys, fellows and residents. Somehow we are all connected and word gets around fast.

First off, you $h!t talked Ghali and Kim. What have you accomplished in this world that comes even remotely close to what these guys and the other faculty LSU-S have? That's right, you haven't accomplished jack $h!t, so learn to keep your mouth shut (1st rule of being a resident). Adding to your stupidity of rants Ord and Ghali are friends. Kim was one of Ord's fellows! Trust me, if you think you have chances for Maryland, you probably don't anymore.

Ord might have been "good to you" on your externship, but trust me, you really don't know anything about Ord (or Salama, Warburton, Colletti or Caccamese) and you barely have an understanding about Maryland. Ord was my mentor in dental school for all 4 years. Trust me, he probably doesn't even remember your name!:laugh:

So a little advice....
1) Learn to keep your mouth shut.
2) Drop the subject and quit the commentary on other programs. Your credibility is sorta shot.
3) In the event you do match somewhere, remember advice #1.
4) One day when and if you actually have the brains and the stones to become someone like Ghali, Ord, Marx, etc, then and only then should you think about opening your mouth.
 
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omfsskin said:
Like I said ONE full time faculty, and a resident led program. And like I also said I rest my case, lets move on, I wont back down from my opinion, it is my opinion and thats what a discussion forum is for, good and bad points!
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You are completely out of line posting information about attendings. Your information is inaccurate, even down to this last post. I'm not even going to bother debating what is incorrect and false, as you've already proven how unintelligent and short-sighted you are.

What I am going to say is this:

I am requesting/suggesting that you edit your previous comments and remove anything mentioning our world-renowned and well-respected attending. You're comments are irresponsible and could potentially derail your intended career in oral surgery.

If your comments are not edited in two days, I will be bringing these posts to Dr. G's attention. Don't be so naive as to think that your anonymity would remain after a few phone calls from important people.

I have one final question for you to think about:

Do you think that a single program in this country would take you if they knew you had made these posts? You made them. My conclusion is that the answer is "no".
 
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Now that we've all made our points and OMFSskin has removed the names of our faculty, there's no point in having this thread continue or being permanently posted on the internet. Best of luck to the applicants.
 
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LSU-S is a great program. I externed there, the residents were great both personally and professionally.

I will personally be looking for your application. Am I correct to assume this is a UMKC D-School student with an externship at Shreveport?

The real kicker for me is the whining that they don't get post call. HA, that is hilarious.
 
OMFSCardsFan said:
If your comments are not edited in two days, I will be bringing these posts to Dr. G's attention. Don't be so naive as to think that your anonymity would remain after a few phone calls from important people.
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His comments have been quoted by other users, which won't be changed when/if he edits his original post. So for them to truly disappear, anyone who quoted him would have to edit the quotes out of their posts as well.

However, while I agree that this guys post was absolutely ridiculous, inflammatory, in bad taste, unprofessional, and lots of other adjectives, I also think anyone who doesn't immediately see it for what it is don't deserve to have a shot at LSU-S. :laugh:

Furthermore, if Drs. *REDACTED* or *REDACTED* wish to have their names redacted from any portion of this thread, all they need to do is contact an SDN administrator. I understand no one wants to have things like this about them around the net, however the pure ownage omfsskin is now experiencing is nothing short of legendary.
 
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OMFSSKIN: I would highly recommend that you remove all of your posts, regarding certain faculty. OMFS is a small community and to question the talent of one of the best surgeons is probably not a good idea.

Dr. G: I don't think anyone can question the talent of Dr. G ever. This man is the definition of full scope OMFS. He is among a rare bunch of surgeons (maybe even only surgeon) that can do CRANIOfacial surgery, cosmetics, cancer, and traditional oral surgery WELL. Not to mention that he does great service for the community and hospital in Shreveport. If OMFSSKIN is lucky enough to interview there, maybe you should ask the man himself how hard he has worked to get where he is.

Dr. K: OMFSSKIN mentioned that LSU-S does not finish off surgeries well (I believe you are talking about their reconstructive cases). I am not sure if you have ever seen Dr. K operate. Those that have operated with the guy will be hard pressed to find a drop of oozing blood in his surgical site. He is one of the most meticulous surgeons I have ever seen, and I have seen some of the best. OMFSSKIN this was probably the worst thing you could ever say about a program/faculty.

Residents: I actually considered them to be one of the better group of residents. When I externed and interviewed they really made the effort to get to know me. Even though I was accepted by another residency program, the residents are still in contact with me to this day. Residents have issues at all programs, you are naive to think that everyone will get along all the time. As you can see by the residents responses on the forum, they are quite passionate about their program. OMFSSKIN...I externed at about ten programs and been around a lot of great residents and not so great residents, but OMFS is a small community. You must realize that you will probably see the same group of people at conferences every few months, so its probably best to play nice.

OMFSSKIN...I wish you the best of luck in your residency process. I hope you realize residency is going to be hard work and not everything is pretty all the time. One of my attendings used to tell me it is okay to make mistakes as a student, but as soon as you become a resident it is a whole new ball game. I can speak from experience that you will make mistakes, but you must learn from these and become better. You have made a BIG mistake, but I hope that you learn from this, and strive to join Dr. G as one of the leaders in our field.
 
Last comment on this particular issue, I wish to make it clear that I absolutely said nothing bad with specific reference to Dr G and Dr K, I did not see much of them, they are well respected and rightfully so, I think it would be excellent if they were there full time! They are well renowned and
respected and great surgeons and leaders in the field, someone we all strive to be! I never said they did not finish off cases I am talking about the follow up in the clinic that they may not even know about because of the fact that they are not there full time.

With that clarified it still remains that there is only 1 full time faculty member!

The rest was written about my experience and thats what it remains my personal experience. If people wish for my experience to be removed because it offends then go for it!

Thank you for your comments and good luck to everyone in interviews but on this particular note, Move on!
 
One full time faculty? Where do you get this stuff? Let me clarify. Dr.Palmieri is the full time faculty at our LSU AC clinic, where you spent your 2 weeks (but no weekends I might add) with us. Dr. Ghali and Dr.Kim are full time faculty members, they are just working in the Schumpert clinic with the upper level residents. So that brings the total to 3 full time faculty. Do not post anymore about this ONE faculty BS.
 
Jesus, I'm gone for little over a year and the place is falling apart. Just kidding. What a douche that guy is.
 
Probably irrelevant to most, but I was always curious which programs graduate you with a two-year gen surg certificate. I've heard a few do, like UConn, Jacksonville, Mich, and Pennsylvania schools? Probably mainly in states that require two years of general surgery but others are perhaps more intense.

Anybody know?
 
fjk said:
Probably irrelevant to most, but I was always curious which programs graduate you with a two-year gen surg certificate. I've heard a few do, like UConn, Jacksonville, Mich, and Pennsylvania schools? Probably mainly in states that require two years of general surgery but others are perhaps more intense.

Anybody know?
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Check with individual programs because it doesn't always correspond to the states' initial licensure requirement. For instance, Florida only requires one year, but we get 2 years PGY here at Jax. Most states require 1-2 years PGY with Nevada requiring 3. I seem to recall the 2 years of gen surg credit being fairly commonplace at the 6 year programs I interviewed with.
 
I think Texas and Cali also differ from most states!
 
Alright people I think the point has been made. Honestly, I think this site is a great forum, but I think this case was a perfect example of a DENTAL STUDENT getting ahead of himself. OMFS is not like ortho, perio, or endo. As a DENTAL STUDENT you have no idea what SURGERY or MEDICINE are about. Maybe by watching Grey's Anatomy, going on 2 week externships or talking to your "buddy" who is an OMFS resident makes you think that you know what training in surgery is going to be like. Sorry to break to you the bad news, most OMFS resident don't figure it out until they rotate on General Surgery. The key is to be humble, keep your mouth shut and become a surgical sponge. Learn as much as possible. People come on here and talk about leaders in OMFS all the time. I can remember some douche posting about Dr. Costello, before you question him you go and try to do the cases he's done with one of the nation's top plastics department across the hall. I can go on and on about all the douche bags that have posted the names of leaders in our specialty gossiping about their perceived negative attributes. Before anyone attempts a post similar to this, remember OMFS would be dentists if it wasn't for the sacrifices these surgeons have made to gain respect for our specialty. I remember being a cocky dental student, talking badly about programs and after going through a six year program I quickly realize the challenges surgeons in our specialty face in the real world. And then for a DENTAL STUDENT who knows zero about anything to call people out. That's like you calling Lil Wayne a bad rapper, or calling Lebron a bad basketball player. Your an idiot!

If you think you know it all, after your train in OMFS, if you are fortunate to become part of this great specialty. You go and try to get a hospital to allow you to do one quarter of the cases that Dr. Ghali does on a weekly basis. I think this should be a lesson for all aspiring OMFS residents on this forum, before you crap on a program get into residency first and then Pass Step 1, 2, 3, break >90% on every OMSSAT exam and become board certified and then get privileges to do full scope cosmetics, craniofacial, or oncology and then you can come back on here and post your opinion about a surgeon doing a half ass'd job. Let's be professional its one thing to say in Shreveport they do too much trauma, I want to do more orthognathics so I want to go to UNC. Its another thing to call patients disgusting, and to say they do a horrible job treating people. That's just wrong and very unprofessional

Omsskin maybe because you've gone a few EXTERNSHIPS and scored higher than 90 on your NBDE I, and you can take out perio compromised teeth faster than anyone in your class that some how gives you insight to what surgery is about and what makes a good program. Guess what my friend, all of your posts make it very evident you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. If I was in your shoes, I would humble myself. Because if one of the Shreveport residents posted your name on here you would have every single OMFS resident in the country waiting for you to show up at their program so they can black ball you from their program. Every now and then a know it all DENTAL STUDENT comes on here and talks out their ***** about what they think they know about OMFS. You just became the Chairman of this group. Good luck on your OMFS Internship, I doubt you have a shot at matching.
 
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well, its my first post here on this site. i discovered it about 2 weeks ago, and i've been moderately addicted to it since!!! (who am i kidding... im addicted. do they offer clinics for these kind of addictions?) you guys really do a fantastic job of maintaining it and it has tons of great information. so thanks for that. I hope to start contributing more often now that im a member.

in regards to the current argument... hmmm, how should i say this... please dont take the arrogance/ignorance of one person (apparently from UMKC, although i honestly have no idea who it is) and think that others from his/her program are of the same ilk. personally, i think UMKC has a couple really good omfs candidates (like me! hahaha!) this year... intelligent, hard-working, dedicated to the field, and, perhaps most importantly, respectful/reverent.

I will soon be on the exciting/expensive interview trail, and I really hope the UMKC name has not been universally tainted by the ignorance, irreverence, and gross inappropriateness of one student.

Thank you, and hopefully, I will meet some of you soon. Best of luck to all the interviewees and continued luck to the current residents on here.
 
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Has anyone got any views about the program at Tufts Dental, programs in NY, etc.... I think it is time for move away from all the bickering about the LSU program and let us think and post some positives......
 
Bitters, you're like the guy who graduated high school but still hangs out on the parking lot every Friday night.

Just to clarify the surgery experience at LSU-S. I finished this past year and I have full head and neck, craniofacial and cosmetic privileges at one of the major hospitals where I live (city of over 1,000,000).

BTW where is TXOMS?
 
omfsskin requested I redact any mention of the two faculty above. I can only fairly edit his posts and my own as I haven't received any request from the faculty themselves.

However, if everyone is willing to edit out their own posts, or PM me to edit them, we can make sure this thread doesn't get indexed by google.
 
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PAJain said:
Because if one of the Shreveport residents posted your name on here you would have every single OMFS resident in the country waiting for you to show up at their program so they can black ball you from their program.
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Spill it!!! Don't want anything to do with a douche in ATL.
 
The previous posts of OMSSkin could certainly been written with a little more respect for LSU-S. That being said, I tend to think that the attendings at Shreveport are too well known and established to be very worried about our conversations on this forum.

Clearly, it is just a fact that OMS programs are much more different from one another than is found in any other dental specialty and we benefit from hearing both sides of the story so I hope our criticism of OMSskin does not impede hearing clear pros/cons of other programs.

I'd like to hear more about Pitt and UPenn's programs? Anyone have some updated information or experience at either place?
 
anybody have any information on University of Washington or University of Minnesota? I have heard they are both good/busy but never heard any specifics as of why. post it up if you do.

thanks :thumbup:
 
UPENN
Positives:
-Great Ivy league medical education (#3 in the nation)
-2 year GS certificate (so you can get your medical license in pretty much every state without any issues, also if your interested in pursuing plastics after residency will make it easier)
-One of the best TMJ experiences in the nation, also one of the better orthognathic experiences around
-Attendings are all nice and very academic
-You get paid all 6 years
-Philly is a great city
-Hospital and clinic are very nice

Negatives:
-A lot of medical school
-No expanded scope (craniofacial, cosmetics, head/neck oncology)
-Not heavy on trauma (if this is your thing)

Overall: a good program, I think getting paid all 6 years and the quality of the medical education balances out with the amount of medical school you have to do
 
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omfsskin said:
Like I said ONE full time faculty, and a resident led program. And like I also said I rest my case, lets move on, I wont back down from my opinion, it is my opinion and thats what a discussion forum is for, good and bad points!
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The human heart has 2 chambers and 6 valves. That is my opinion and I wont back down from my opinion, it my opinion and thats what a discussion forum is for, good and bad points! Anyone know if McDonald's is hiring?

OMSres, TX OMFS has long been banned from this site. In fact, as I discovered, one's IP address can also be banned if one tries to long in as TX OMFS.
 
Jawdreamin said:
UPENN
Positives:
-Great Ivy league medical education (#3 in the nation)
-2 year GS certificate (so you can get your medical license in pretty much every state without any issues, also if your interested in pursuing plastics after residency will make it easier)
-One of the best TMJ experiences in the nation, also one of the better orthognathic experiences around
-Attendings are all nice and very academic
-You get paid all 6 years
-Philly is a great city
-Hospital and clinic are very nice

Negatives:
-A lot of medical school
-No expanded scope (craniofacial, cosmetics, head/neck oncology)
-Not heavy on trauma (if this is your thing)

Overall: a good program, I think getting paid all 6 years and the quality of the medical education balances out with the amount of medical school you have to do
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Gary "Cheesesteak" Ruska here,
How can Upenn be a good program if its strengths consist primarily of things that either a) aren't necessary to become an OMFS (good medical school, 2 year general surgery certificate) or b) don't have much to do with OMFS (hospital and clinic being "nice", Philly being a nice city, getting paid for 6 years)? The negatives on your list seem to be quite substantive. The positives, not so much.

Also - "Ivy league" medical education: Twice the cost for half the knowledge.
 
Interesting comments. Being that I am not a resident I am not going to go out of my to defend a program. I think the comment about an Ivy league medical education is absurd. I didn't mean it in an arrogant way, just that I'm sure a school that's ranked #3 in the nation for medical education will do a great job teaching medicine. Not to say that attending a non-ranked medical school will result in a bad medical education. Its hard to compete with the quality of medical education that institutions like UCLA, UCSF, Mayo, Michigan, Columbia, Harvard, Emory, Penn, UTSW, Cornell, Baylor provide for their students.

I think there is too much program bashing on this site. Every time someone writes something positive about a program someone has to respond with negative comments. Instead of bashing our own specialty we should be proud that we have OMFS departments in the top medical centers in the nation. I know its great that Carle, Knoxville, Shreveport, New Orleans, Jacksonville, etc...are doing huge cases, but lets not forget that OMFS should be represented well from the top medical centers to the rural or inner city hospitals.
 
PAJain said:
Interesting comments. Being that I am not a resident I am not going to go out of my to defend a program. I think the comment about an Ivy league medical education is absurd. I didn't mean it in an arrogant way, just that I'm sure a school that's ranked #3 in the nation for medical education will do a great job teaching medicine. Not to say that attending a non-ranked medical school will result in a bad medical education. Its hard to compete with the quality of medical education that institutions like UCLA, UCSF, Mayo, Michigan, Columbia, Harvard, Emory, Penn, UTSW, Cornell, Baylor provide for their students.
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Gary "PAJain is my hero" Ruska here,

Well said. GR's point was that the poster stated that the strengths of the program were that the medical school was great and that you get two years of GS credit in case you want to do plastics. Given that the purpose of this thread is to provide overviews of programs to presumed applicants, GR felt the need to point out that these are hardly what should be considered "strengths" of an OMFS program.

As far as Ivy-League medical education goes, GR has worked with multiple medical students from schools across the country and has found no difference between those from state medical schools that are lesser known and students from Ivys. Given that medical education is quite expensive and many people have already accrued significant debt from undergrad, GR believes that the selection of medical schools is as much based on finances as other factors. GR has met a fair share of medical students who went to State School X and had gone to Harvard, Princeton, Yale, etc. undergrad (and these guys were very very smart). Medical education is fairly standard - as it has to be to ensure that everyone meets the criteria for licensure. The strengths of big institutions have more to do with NIH and intramural research funding - and the people who make these institutions the big names that they are rarely (if ever) have anything to do with day to day education of medical students.

Take home point (for applicants):
Do not judge the strength of an OMFS program by the associated medical school. As a brilliant contributer to this site (toofache32) always says: the medical degree is optional and peripheral to our training.
 
Especially true for us... Undergrad, Dental School and then the additional financial burden of Medical School Tuition...
 
There seems to be a lot of programs around the tri-state area of Ohio-Kentucky-Indiana. Also saw some reviews abt OSU/UoL/Lexington
What about the programs in Cincinnati, Indiana?
Do these programs work with each other or against each other?
 
A friend of mine externed at OHSU for a few weeks and eventhough the program is awsome with a huge scope, apparently the faculty really micro-manage the residents and the chair Dr. Assael apparently really emotionally and verbally abuses the residents, using profanities, etc, I think he probably has a serious temper issue....
anyone else had this experience with him?
other than that I heard nothing but good things about that program.
 
Anyone know anything about NY programs? More specifically - NYMC, Jacobi and Montifiore?

Thanks.
 
does anyone have any opinions about UIC and Nebraska? I can only go to one interview out of the two, and I have my reasons for both places... i just can't decide.

if anyone wants to offer some words of help/encouragement, a PM would be greatly appreciated

thanks everyone
 
Hey, i know this isn't the military forum, but I was wondering what the general consensus was on a military trained oral surgeon. Does anyone know about the quality of the Air Force's OMS program at all? Thanks alot!
 
GimmeThe301 said:
does anyone have any opinions about UIC and Nebraska? I can only go to one interview out of the two, and I have my reasons for both places... i just can't decide.

if anyone wants to offer some words of help/encouragement, a PM would be greatly appreciated

thanks everyone
Click to expand...

The word through the grapevine is that Nebraska is an excellent surgical program, and that UIC seems geared much more toward private practice.

Plus whether the MD is important.
 
Anyone know anything about St. Joseph's in Jersery?
 
This is info in response to this thread. There is good information about the program

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=573334&highlight=fresno+omfs

Information on FRESNO OMFS
Thank you for the positive feedback on the Fresno OMFS Externship. I am the current Chief Resident. Allow me to clarify on some of the statements made in this thread.

1) The program has never shut down.

2) We needed to pull out of the match the last years due to some issues. It was decided it would only be fair to not be listed so that applicants would not waste time or money

3) We will be accepting applications for our one year internship, the day of the Match Results. Our internships spot is competitive because it is a very good internship.

4) We do not openly take our INTERNS. I DID NOT INTERN HERE, NEITHER DID OUR 2nd YEAR.

5) We do however favor applicants for our First Year spots that have experience (previous OMFS internship, GPR), however our current 2nd year was accepted straight out of Dental school.

6) We are a very busy program.
There is no plastics or ent residency. We take all the call for head and facial trauma (eg. all facial and scalp lacerations, mandible and orbit fx's)
We also perform approx one to two Head and Neck cancer cases a month which include neck dissections and flap reconstructions. We manage most head and neck infections. In addition we operate on approx 100 plus orthognathic cases a year. Our third year placed approx 65 implants last year. We recieve training on surgical airways.

7) There are many other good things that are happening here that have not been solidified, but will enhance this program

8) We truly enjoy having EXTERNS and make it a point to ensure time is not wasted. During the time period we did not participate in the Match, several externs continued to visit here and found they had a great time.

9) We do have some negative points. There are no perfect programs.

If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to ask. Best wishes on your future. You've picked a great profession to pursue.

My only advice is...............remember to pick the Profession not the Location. IE the best OMFS program is the one you got into to.

UPDATE 10/31/09 - We have two full time attendings that are fellowship trained. They have both trained with Dierks, Potter, and Ghali.
 
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