About the ads

OMFS Programs Overview

Discussion in 'Dental Residents and Practicing Dentists' started by Squished Rat, Jan 2, 2008.

  1. SDN is a nonprofit organization. Services are made possible through the generous support of SDN members and sponsors. Thank you.

    Thanks to Crack the NBDE
  1. GTFOOMICT

    GTFOOMICT

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2010
    Messages:
    329
    Status:
    Non-Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member

    SDN Members don't see this ad. (About Ads)
    Because we care far too much about what the peripheral circle of people think about us (plastic surgeons, ent, gen surg, anesthesia, med students....you know, those real doctors)

    And don't care enough about what our immediate circle thinks about us (general dentists, periodontists, dental students, patients).

    Bread and butter will pay my bills, OMSPAC, and AAOMS' bills. That is a fact. And I can't wait.
  2. duknowme

    duknowme

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    48
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 2+ Year Member
  3. Michael Scarn

    Michael Scarn

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    190
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    With that said, it is important to maintain and expand on the procedures that guys like RV Walker and William Bell pioneered. The future and vitality of our specialty depends on this. Otherwise you might as well be a periodontist. Those guys basically dedicated their lives to giving OMS a footprint in the hospital.

    You've got to show respect for your specialty and those that preceded you by not losing the ground that they spent their lives establishing.

    Obviously dentoalveolar pays the bills but if I am going to be happy I need an "expensive hobby" like orthognathics. I'm 100% going into private practice (partly because I've got 3 waiting for me) but that doesn't mean I'm going to become a periodontist.
  4. GTFOOMICT

    GTFOOMICT

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2010
    Messages:
    329
    Status:
    Non-Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    It is of course important that we maintain the scope, and it will be maintained.

    But we fear we will lose trauma, orthognathics, pathology, hospital scope. You can't have a 'hobby' without the ability to pay the bills.

    We should fear the bastardization and commoditization of our private practices. Without a booming private practice, there is no trauma, orthognathics, pathology, hospital coverage, volunteering in the dental schools for the vast majority.

    9000 OMS in this country can survive if we got kicked out of the hospital and maxillofacial procedures. 9000 OMS can not survive if we lose our edge as the dental surgeons in our dental community. The latter is more likely than the former to ever happen.

    Why we are obsessed with asserting ourselves as trauma and cancer experts is beyond me if it means neglecting our oral surgery roots.

    There should be an oral surgeon in every city of this country that quite simply dominates implants, dentoalveolar, etc. Hospital coverage will fall in line.
  5. Michael Scarn

    Michael Scarn

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    190
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Yeah but you and I both know that dentoalveolar surgery will NEVER be passes by or forgotten by OMS. That is where the money is!
    The reason that emphasis is placed on preserving the hospital aspects is because that is where the money isn't! That's why it needs pushing.

    Now if you want to say that OMS can be complete A-holes to the rest of dentistry and it needs to stop, then I'm with you. The last thing we want is to be ostracized by our dental peers.
  6. WannaBeDentist

    WannaBeDentist

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    Messages:
    127
    SDN 5+ Year Member
    Many of the experiences and interactions between specialities with dental students project their future perceptions and referrals in their career. Many dental students have no idea how many hours and what is going on outside the OMS dental clinic and when an overworked resident rubs enough students (soon to be GPs) the wrong way, it creates a negative image that can stick be hard to overcome.

    At our school Perio does such a good job at kissing butt, its no wonder all the students want to refer their sinus lifts, extractions, grafts, implants, etc. to them. :rolleyes:
  7. GreatOMFSHope

    GreatOMFSHope

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2010
    Messages:
    99
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    At my school, it was the opposite........but it might have been a language barrier for the perio guys/gals.
  8. GreatOMFSHope

    GreatOMFSHope

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2010
    Messages:
    99
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Somewhat agree......but the 5 orthognathic cases don't concern me as much as the 20 implants. Orthognathic shouldn't be an "expensive hobby". To be done well, it should be done often, in my opinion.

    The implants are an upgrade from the 11 when I interviewed there. When I specifically asked about their low numbers, I was told, "All you need to place an implant is bone and money". Funny quote, but I don't think we can win the argument about being superior at implants over our perio/AEGD/GPR friends when we do tremendously fewer in a residency program.

    And I do agree with Scarn that we do have an obligation to maintain what our peers have worked so hard to achieve.
  9. duknowme

    duknowme

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    48
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Regarding the implants I would have to agree with you. There are residency programs out there that don't do any implants. After having done them, I am glad that I am learning to do them in residency and not in practice. If we want to have more implants referred to us we definitely have to be better trained in them. Especially the soft tissue management. A member of my family who is a GP refers his implants to Perio because he has not had good success with the ones he has referred to OMS. Sad but true.

    Secondly, I also agree that for orthognathic cases to be done well they should be done often. I shadowed an OMS that did 1-2 a year. He said that he did them just so he could say that he did them. I also externed at a place where the attending did >100/year. If I were getting surgery I know who I would pick.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2012
  10. armorshell

    armorshell Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,095
    Location:
    Dallas
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Dentist SDN 7+ Year Member
    Is that the true number of implants or the OR case log? I know if you only looked at my program OR log the implant numbers would seem abysmally low, when in fact they are just regular old low.
  11. GreatOMFSHope

    GreatOMFSHope

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2010
    Messages:
    99
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Overall, not just the OR log. This was from the number posted during the pre-interview welcome powerpoint. I asked the same question.
  12. BenignDMD

    BenignDMD

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2005
    Messages:
    227
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Anyone have info on Howard's program?
  13. duknowme

    duknowme

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    48
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Oh Yea, that is what this forum is about.
  14. BenignDMD

    BenignDMD

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2005
    Messages:
    227
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Indeed, I felt bad having to derail the thread lol
  15. Spaceman Spif

    Spaceman Spif

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    166
    Status:
    Dental Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Great info in this thread!
  16. ScottW3

    ScottW3 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Messages:
    167
    Location:
    Chicago
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Just thought it would be helpful for everyone looking at 6 year programs to know that UIC's 6 year residents don't pay for med school AND get their stipend all 6 years. The 6 year tract here is new (this July will be the start of the 2nd year). Just FYI

    I'm in the 4 year tract there now and can answer any questions anyone has.
  17. GTFOOMICT

    GTFOOMICT

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2010
    Messages:
    329
    Status:
    Non-Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    WOW.

    UIC is already great. Now it's financially a steal.

    Good for you guys for figuring that out.

    I'm jealous.
  18. Clay Pigeon

    Clay Pigeon

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    11
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Thought I would share this for any fellow Canadians.

    Dalhouse is a 6-YR OMFS Program in Halifax which is a combined MD and MSc program. They accept 1 resident per year. Generally they prefer if their residents have either a GPR or private practice experience before starting residency.

    This is the email I received from one of the residents who is currently there:



    Currently 2 of our 6 residents have not done a GPR (albeit one of them already had an MD prior to applying). Definitely strengthens your application but I wouldn't let it deter you from applying now.

    The program is great so far. Very busy. Tons of OR time. Yes we receive a resident stipend starting at about 55K and goes up to 80K plus call money which add another 5K approximately. We also pay tuition of about 15K a year except for your 6th year you only pay about 3K.

    Overall here is what the program looks like:
    Year 1- You start June 1st. 4 weeks of buddy call to show you the ropes. Your run the resident clinic!!! Very busy. You have your own patient list in the outpatient clinic and you usually do 3 surgeries in the morning and 4 in the afternoon plus consults 10-15 plus add ons. You will do a few hundred IV sedations (you run it on your own, just an assistant in the room). You go to the OR starting in September 1 afternoon per week, plus when you are on call to fix any fractures that come in. (Call is usually 1 night during the week and 1 weekend a month).
    Year 2- In June you show the new guy the ropes for a few weeks then you start operating as a 5th year and go to the OR every day for the rest of the summer until Med school starts (Med 1) in September. When you are in Med school you have to go to the clinic Monday mornings and Friday afternoons, when you med school buddies are drinking beer.
    Year 3- In June you start doing Med 3 clerkships (Cardiology and Internal med) then in September you go back to Med 2 in the class room plus in the clinic a bit and in the OR one half day. (Note; you take regular OMF call during the week and weekends during med school which is when you do most of your operating)
    Year 4- You continue Med 3 clerkship stuff until September of your 5th year.
    Year 5- OR every day.
    Year 6- OR Monday, Wednesday. Board exams, Defend masters thesis that you have been working on over the past 6 years.
    We do collectively about 150 fractures per year. Mostly mandible but our fare share of orbits, and ZMC's too.
    We do about 400 orthognathic cases. Lost of dentoalveolar, hip grafts etc.
    A decent amount of TMJ reconstruction.
    About 25 primary cleft lip and palate. (6th year only).
    We have 6 staff, 2 of them are trained to do head and neck cancer (fellowships at UCSF and Portland) . We don't to a ton of this though, maybe about 8-10 neck dissections per year.
    Little to no cosmetics.
    Hope this helpful. I have toured all of the Canadian programs except for Lavale (don't speak French) and didn't see McGill. There is no comparison with Dal for how much OR time you will get. I have never seen a fight for OR time ever because everyone gets so much time. You will do hundreds of orthognathic cases before you graduate. Some programs offer more "didactic" time, this is simply because they don't have the OR work load like we do. You can read books in the evenings and weekends, during the day we operate. Any learning sessions that we have (usually Wednesday and Thursdays) are either in the morning before clinic or at the end of the day after clinic.
  19. Profeshnul

    Profeshnul

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    69
    Location:
    Trauma bay
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    can someone please tell us which programs are women friendly? For a long time I thought I had a shot at Parkland or LSU, but some say they dont accept females, is this true?
  20. hotrod0917

    hotrod0917 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Ann Arbor
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Not sure what you exactly mean by women friendly programs, but here is a list of programs that I externed/interviewed at, that had female residents:

    Michigan
    Nebraska
    LSU Shreveport
    Kentucky
    Case
    Emory
  21. CMistry

    CMistry

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    734
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Dentist SDN 7+ Year Member
    Maryland is also very female friendly.
  22. Profeshnul

    Profeshnul

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    69
    Location:
    Trauma bay
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Thanks, This is a good start !
    By women friendly I meant any program with female residents :)
  23. EJsDad

    EJsDad

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    66
    Status:
    Dental Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    I think Ohio State has 2 female residents currently, and I heard UW may be more female friendly (I don't know for sure about UW though).
  24. tennisdental

    tennisdental

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    9
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    UNC is 'female friendly'
  25. hotrod0917

    hotrod0917 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Ann Arbor
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Hey guys.

    As I near the end of my first year, I would like to do an overview of my program, and hopefully give you an unbiased (or at least an attempt at a unbiased) insight to what University of Michigan Oral & Maxillofacial surgery is about.

    This is NOT to compare my program to any other programs, and it is solely to give information to current and future applicants.

    6-year MD & certificate combined program.
    Residents per year: 3
    Fellow per year: No more than 1 at a time.
    Full time faculties: 7

    Oldest U.S. OMS program in function. Inaugural class of 1917. Many notable graduates including but not limited to: Drs. Reed Dingman, James Hayward, Ole Jensen, Edward Ellis III, Norman Betts, Dale Baur, Brent Ward, Sean P. Edwards.

    Hospitals Covered: 1!
    Technically we are one gigantic health system complex that encompasses our main hospital, research facilities, cardiac center, cancer center, children's & woman's hospital, and med school. NO need to drive around at night covering multiple hospitals. The only traveling you do is to the dental school during your rotation there, and it is about 5 blocks away. You can walk or drive there. You work mainly from University Hospital & Mott Children's and Von Voigtlander Women's hospital.
    We’re not in-house call unless you’re covering airway for fresh tracheostomies. So a lot of times you may be able to deal with most businesses at home, without having to go in. Not usually the case for trauma week though. No tooth call. GPR covers tooth call. We deal with multi-space abscess, eye or airway compromising abscesses, odontogenic or not.

    Scope of Practice:
    This I feel like is the main reason why Michigan attracts many potential residents year after year, & my reason for wanting/matching to Ann Arbor. The only aspect of Oral & Maxillofacial surgery and its expanded scope that we do not do often is cosmetics.
    - Dentoalveolar: You are the only resident when you rotate through the dental school as a first year, and get to do whatever comes in the door: including 3rds under sedation; preprosthetic surgery – FMX, tori, alveoloplasty; biopsies; ortho ext & exposures. When you are upper level, there are two, ½ days at the hospital dedicated to 3rds & other dentoalveolar surgeries under sedation. We use fent, midaz, propofol, ketamine, etc.
    - Orthognathics: Dr. Edwards alone does about 170-200 patients a year. We have 2 new faculties who are starting to build their practice, so I think we do ample amount of orthognathics. Most of our orthognathic surgeries are not straight forward, and are referred to us from outside orthodontists and oral surgeons. Majority of the cases are bimax, oftentimes multi-piece maxilla and sometimes multi-piece mandible. Fellowship trained in craniofacial, I’ve also seen Dr. Edwards incorporate Le Fort 2 osteotomy for orthognathic surgeries. We used Dolphin and Medical Modeling.
    - Cancer: We can’t talk about University of Michigan without talking about Cancer. We do ablative/resection, neck dissection, microvascular free tissue transfer, and reconstructions all under our department. It is nice to see a patient go from huge tumor, resection and reconstruction in one day, and years later and get implants placed by us for prosthesis. We have maxillofacial prosthodontics integrated to our department, and you get to learn how to work with prosthodontists also. We think about 1/3 of our service is spent doing cancer AND reconstructive surgery. It is more appropriate, I think, to talk about reconstruction separately from cancer, as not all cancer patients get reconstruction except for maybe skin graft.
    - Reconstructive: We do free fibula, scapula, ALT, pectoralis, SMAS, Nasolabial flap, cervicofacial, radial forearm, costochondral, iliac crest, tibial, BMP, ramus, etc. We deal with good amount of benign and malignant path, as well as cleft and post trauma patients to be exposed to all kinds of reconstructions. Faculties differ in what they like to use for reconstruction, and having 7 full-time OMS faculties, you see many different surgical techniques.
    - Pediatric/ Craniofacial: Dr. Aronovich and Dr. Edwards are both craniofacial fellowship trained surgeons, and we have busy pediatric clinics. You see a whole gamut of syndromic patients, cleft craniofacial patients, and also sadly pediatric cancer patients. If you can deal with the parents, I think you’ll be comfortable with pediatric patients when you’re done.
    - Trauma: Trauma is split between OMS, ENT, and Plastics. We’re on facial trauma every 3 weeks, no anatomical restriction. Ann Arbor is not a rough town, and although we are near Detroit, gun and knife goes to the many Detroit hospitals. However, you can pretty much assume that U of M covers the rest of the state. We get patients flown in from the upper and west side of the state all the time. Besides moderate number of person-to-person trauma, I think we get good amount of “weird” traumas. What I mean by that is we get a lot of dog bites, horse or other animal trampling, self inflicted gunshot wounds, tractor injuries, ATV injuries and etc. One of my first trauma patient was GSW to face who got radial forearm and fibula free flap, who then went on to receive paramedian forehead, calvarial bone and conchal cartilage graft for nose reconstruction. All by our department.
    - TMJ: We have 3 faculties who do TMJ surgeries, one of them who only do TMJ surgeries. This includes arthrocentesis, arthroscopies, temporalis flaps, costochondral grafts, total prosthesis, etc. We also have, under our department umbrella, TMD faculty who does non-surgical treatments.
    - Obstructive Sleep Apnea: We are part of the sleep disorder clinic that includes neurology, oto, gastro, and etc. We do the jaw surgeries. Oto does tonsils and adenoids.
    - Anesthesia: You do 4 months (well I guess 5 months now) during your 1st year. You’re treated as an anesthesia resident, and they get you working very fast. You get comfortable doing GA, and they let you do as much as you want, including spinals, epidurals, LMA, MAPS, etc. You’ve dealt with enough medicine at this time that you don’t feel lost administering anesthesia even to ASA 3 & sometimes ASA 4 patients.

    Faculty: Program director is Dr. Edwards, and oncology and microvascular reconstruction fellowship director is Dr. Ward. Chairman is Dr. Helman. I believe all 7 of our full-time faculties are fellowship trained in something, and they are all very approachable. Of course we respect them, but it wouldn’t be unusual for us to be joking on each other’s behalf. I think no matter what I say, it wouldn’t be doing them justice. Let’s just say I feel very fortunate to have such great faculties.

    City: Supposedly it is voted one of the best cities to live in US, year after year. I would say being from a metropolitan area it is more like a larger suburb mixed with a college town. I don’t feel like I’m missing anything by living here, and Detroit being only 30 minutes away, if you need to go to a ball game or a concert, they are all within reach. It does get cold here though, but you’d expect that from any Midwestern or Eastern programs. I haven’t explored too much of the whole state, but there are many beautiful areas near by. No good skiing or snowboarding though. :(

    Med School: Med school is consistently ranked very high. When you go to med school here, it is not something you just do to get over with. It’s tough, and they expect a lot out of you. However, if you’re a surgeon who would like to practice the full scope of oral surgery and work in hospital setting, I think it definitely prepares you well.

    Residents: Every time someone externs at our program, I tell them this is my favorite aspect of the program. We really appreciate each other and work well together. I think being a smaller department in the hospital we have to work together well to get things done. Something that I didn’t think much of while applying, but now feel is one of the KEY thing that you should look for. The only way to find out if you fit in well is externing or interviewing though.

    Research: If you want to do research, there are ample opportunities to do so. Dr. Feinberg was the Chair of research for International Association of OMS, and now Dr. Helman is. Other faculties are also very well published.

    Negatives so far:
    - Overall I think the positives overweight the negatives. I don’t think we have very much mid-level support such as physician’s assistant or nurse practitioners. Not an absolute bad thing, but something that I think could we improve.
    - Back end heavy: as an intern, you’re doing a lot of dentoalveolar, closing lacs, closing graft or flap sites, doing tracheostomies and etc. As upper level is when you really get your hands dirty with whatever you can handle and whatever you hope to experience.
    - Not typical Midwest cost of living: Ann Arbor is pricey compared to many other places in Midwest. Not exactly sure why, but it is. However, I think our salary is fair. You get $200 per month for food for being on call to help out.

    Okay, I'm not sure if I did justice to our program, but that's about all I got tonight. Also, this is a 1st year’s perspective, and I’m sure my mind about certain things will change over the 6 years I’ll spend here. If there are some mistakes/ things that you'd like to add, feel free to do so. I just hope that this is helpful info for guys applying in the years to come.
  26. flapaTron

    flapaTron § herpen the derp §

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    Messages:
    445
    Status:
    Dental Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    hotrod i take it OMS is doing the actual harvesting of the graft all by their lonesome?
  27. hotrod0917

    hotrod0917 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Messages:
    191
    Location:
    Ann Arbor
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Yup. Having 4/7 faculties trained in microvascular reconstruction also helps since we'll typically divide to two teams unless we're doing scapula.
  28. flapaTron

    flapaTron § herpen the derp §

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    Messages:
    445
    Status:
    Dental Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    that's pretty badass. i externed at a program that "did cancer" but that just meant the OMS residents were closing after dissection, resection, and harvest were done, maybe assisting in flap inset (not to say it wasn't a great program, just not what i would call cancer surg).
  29. gimesy

    gimesy

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    Status:
    Dental Student
    I externed at Montefiore OMFS a few weeks ago, and was came away very impressed with their program. It is a 4 year program, and they take 5 residents per year. All of their residents seem very happy with their choice of residency and I will definitely be applying here later this year.

    They cover 5 hospitals, 4 of which are in the Bronx and one in Jersey. Obviously they see their fair share of trauma being in the Bronx. At the main Monte hospitals they split trauma call with Plastics. At the other 2 hospitals (one in the South Bronx and the one in Jersey) they are on trauma every night, and from what they said, they see some pretty interesting cases at these hospitals.

    They have 5 clinics that they cover and take 5 residents per year. With people going off service, they are spread out pretty well and even first years were doing a ton of implants, exts, wizzies, seds, biopsies, etc.

    From what I gathered, all of the chiefs were going to graduate with roughly 400 (!!!!) implants easy. I think they probably do the most implants in the country, or atleast top 2 or 3. The week I was there, one of the chiefs did a couple of double jaw orthognathic cases, a couple of trauma cases, and a large ameloblastoma resection. It seemed really well balanced and busy. They have a few different attendings, and the one that was in the OR the most with the residents does almost everything (except free flaps) including hips, fibulas, costochrondral, bmp, bmac, etc. They don't do any cancer, but that is actually a positive for me, because I'm not really looking to do that.

    They start cutting really early as well. As a 2nd year they start doing trauma cases with their chief when they go to one of the 2 non-Monte hospitals. During orthognathic cases, the attending stood at the head, a 3rd year cut one side, and the 4th year cut the other side. Every other place I had been to, I saw the chief doing one side and the attending doing the other, so I thought that was pretty cool.

    Overall a really well balanced, busy program
  30. GTFOOMICT

    GTFOOMICT

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2010
    Messages:
    329
    Status:
    Non-Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    :mad:



    What do the fellows do that are listed on their site?



    Well done Montefiore.
  31. gimesy

    gimesy

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    Status:
    Dental Student
    The 3 "fellows", are one year, non-categorical interns. Not sure why they call them fellows, and not interns. They rotate at all the same clinics as the other first year residents, but don't do any of the off service rotations obviously
  32. keeneye

    keeneye

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2011
    Messages:
    55
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Would anyone like to update information for these programs?
  33. JDIZNEY

    JDIZNEY Grip n Rip

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2007
    Messages:
    39
    Status:
    Dental Student
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Would anyone like to update information for ALL of the OMFS programs???
  34. jackiethedmd

    jackiethedmd

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2012
    Messages:
    12
    Status:
    Dental Student
  35. cheongdamdong

    cheongdamdong Dental Student

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    1
    Status:
    Dental Student
    I recently finished my first externship.:laugh: It was great! That was quite an exciting experience.:soexcited: I learned much more about OMFS. I would definitely love to do more externships. In the meantime....I am preparing for NBME CBSE...
    (For any OMFS attendings and residents who took step 1)
    I would really appreciate it if you could give me some study tips, guidance or advice!
    Thank you!
  36. nade0016

    nade0016

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    7
    Status:
    Attending Physician
  37. umkcdds

    umkcdds Army OMS

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    357
    Location:
    Fort Campbell, KY
    Army SDN 7+ Year Member
    something you have to think about when looking at these numbers, is, how many residents are these numbers split between and how much of the case is the resident actually doing?

    200 orthognathic cases a year isn't impressive if there are 6 residents to split them between.

    500 mandible fractures isn't impressive if those are between 8 residents and the attending does 90% of the surgery.

    if the entire program is placing 500 implants per year, but each resident only graduates with 100, that isn't impressive.

    just something to think about when reading all these INCREDIBLE numbers people are posting about residencies. none of these posts talk about the number of residents the cases are split between.

    when visiting residencies, find out how many of each type of surgery each resident graduates with.

    that is a better indicator than the numbers people are posting on here.
  38. sed8nyank4u

    sed8nyank4u

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2011
    Messages:
    39
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Minnesota

    I interned at Minnesota and this is what I found. The chief residents were very unhappy with the program. The told me "Do not come here." They spent a lot of their time "running" the attending's clinic inside the dental school. One chief had "dropped out" or been "dismissed" from the program. A 2nd year had transferred into another program.

    There was a heavy emphasis on head and neck cancer. Dr. Kademani was very nice as were all of the attendings I met. The chiefs got to cut for part of the cases I saw but they did a tremendous amount of paperwork and charting and significant time assisting. They had to travel to three different hospitals.
  39. The Anhedonia

    The Anhedonia

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    236
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    I externed here for a week. Overall I thought it was a really great and interesting program.

    Details:
    - 6-year program, covers 3 hospitals in New York (Jacobi in the Bronx, Beth Israel in Manhattan, and North Central Bronx Hospital) but operates mainly out of Jacobi; Albert Einstein Medical School
    - Good scope: Plenty of trauma in the bronx, good amount of orthosurg cases, really busy clinic, cancer done at BIMC in conjunction with ENT (Dr. Urken, who's apparently a big name in the ENT world).
    - Call: GPR takes 1st call at Jacobi, not sure what the situation is elsewhere
    - Of the attendings i was privileged to interact with, all are fantastic, really nice. Dr. Buchbinder is a fan of implementing modeling (e.g. printing splints for fibula cuts prior to surgery) for cancer surgery which is pretty cool imo, plus he's got a big heart for his residents. Some young guys are part time attendings too which i think is a plus for any program.
    - good relationship with ENT, so much so i think the 2 departments are integrated (not 100% on this), no plastic coverage at Jacobi as far as i know so the oms service is very busy there.
    - the residents all have a good chemistry with each other and are really friendly (sometimes overlooked aspect when considering a program)
    - in NYC (good location, ridiculous rent.....)

    Potential weaknesses:
    - according to the residents, low implant #'s but gradually increasing (maybe a function of the program's relatively young age)
    - malignant cancer cases seemed to be mostly cut, resected, and harvested by ENT, with inset and closure done by OMS. maybe not a bad thing depending on how you look at it. also i was only there for a week so it's possible that this is not always the case.
    - my personal grief was the distance between Jacobi and BIMC. traffic sucks in NYC, parking is impossible at BIMC. subways aren't directly accesible to Jacobi. not sure if this counts as a weakness per say but inconvenient nonetheless.

    i would personally be happy at this program, will definitely be applying when it's my turn. :xf:
  40. Mohab

    Mohab

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Texas
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    I can't speak for LSU, but as far as Parkland goes, we have no anti-female sentiment. We have been interviewing females for the last 4 years and from what we hear, we ranked a female #1 at least two years.

    Maybe a lot of females get discouraged from applying or ranking the program high, but I'm not sure there's a good reason for this. I would encourage you to at least give Parkland a look.
  41. FaceDMD

    FaceDMD

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    I think that there is an up and coming program that most users don't know about/haven't had much exposure to: Case Western. Historically a good program but not one of the powerhouses due to lack of heavy trauma, but now that they have incorporated Metro, they will quickly become one of the better programs in the country.

    --Only 5 yrs (can do fellowship 6th year if desired)
    --Only 12 months of med school (3rd year rotations only!!)--top 25 med school--can complete rotations at UH, cleveland clinic, or metro.
    --Only 9 months of Gen Surg (3 mo plastics, 2 ENT, 1 NSG, 1 trauma, 1 SICU, 1PEDs,)
    --34 months on OMS Service
    --Metro is level I trauma--one of the busiest trauma centers in the US (lots of gunshot wounds, panfacials, etc)
    --Lots of pathology, TMJ, and reconstruction. Dr. Baur did a cancer fellowship at Michigan and does malignant and benign tumors. Enough to be comfortable doing anything in private practice and to get familiar enough for fellowship if interested, but not bogged down doing only cancer like some of the big cancer programs.
    --Case already does lots of cosmetics (Dr. Quereshy is cosmetics fellowship trained- one of the few programs where the residents will be doing their own resident cosmetic cases ie: face lifts, blephs, lipo, brow lift, platysmaplasty, botox, restylane etc)
    --Tons of implants (Interns placing 50-100 implants first year--total of 300-500 by end--also lots of grafts, sinus lifts, etc.--don't believe it when people say if you can do trauma/reconstruction you can do implants--it takes about 50-100 before you realize your mistakes and you don't want that learning curve to happen in practice)

    --Residents cut 100% of every case (including cancer, reconstruction, cosmetics, orthognathics, etc)
    --strong anesthesia experience, 5 months, treated like anesthesia resident
    --Three new full time attendings at Metro.
    --Three faculty that sit on ABOMS board -- good prep for boards.

    Case covers Metro, Cleveland Clinic, University Hospitals, and the Cleveland VA. Pretty much every big case going through northern Ohio and the surrounding area goes through that program now.

    All the benefits of a six year program without the extra year of Med school, or even worse and extra year of gen surg, in only 5 years. With broad scope, big case load, residents are happy and get along with each other and attendings, by far one of the best programs in country.

    Cleveland is NICE...low cost of living. tons of restaurants (ever heard of Michael Simon?), outdoor activities, biking, hiking, fishing, 2nd largest theater district in US, lots of museums-cultural center of ohio.
  42. BryanD

    BryanD

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    7
    Status:
    Dentist
    No question about Case Western being a great program, but you got some bogus claims, which simply cannot be true, the most bogus one being the one in bold.
  43. Happy2bDMD

    Happy2bDMD

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1
    Status:
    Dental Student
    I had a chance to extern at Indiana last year. I will share with you some of the things that I saw there. Again this is my perpective of the program. Somebody else might have seen things differently then I did.

    They do way to much didactics compared to most of the programs that I visited. There residents get tore apart in all of these conferences. Three of there full time faculty members are right out of residency. They can make a mandible with and external approach take 4 + hours. The residents are not really allowed to ask questions as well. The attendings were probably the mos unapproachable individuals that I have ever meet.

    Every week they have a one hour lecture on Path with a full time oral pathologist. The Residents do not know what will be presented during this session and they just get destroyed during this hour. The all have to sit around a microscopic and are asked to describe histological slides. All the residents seemed to hate this time each and every week.

    Case conference was crazy as well. The residents would get picked apart over the dumbest stuff. In fact they are never asked a question on Oral Surgery or how they might approach a case from an oral surgery standpoint, rather they are pimped on crazy health histories. I saw one of there attendings who has been at the program for a long time absolutely yell at the residents and all but call them idiots. It got pretty intense.

    They do a lot of trauma, that makes up the largest portion of there case load. No cosmetics or reconstructive surgery is really done there. In fact only two of there attendings actually do orbits, everything else is referred. It is a typical bread and butter oral surgery program. They have two clinics that they run everyday that are mostly point and pull clinics. It was really strange seeing residents have to present to attending over simple extractions. Some of the attendings treated the residents as if they were dental students.

    The residents were all pretty cool but non of them were really happy. They seemed to be beaten down a lot. Over from what I have seen and heard it is an ok residency program. It has potential to be a good program, but at this point you pretty much only come here if you happen to match here (most of the residents I talked to did not rank it very high).
  44. omfsKiDDo

    omfsKiDDo

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    This is truly great to hear:thumbup::D
    Just out of curiosity....a question for LSU-NO guys....Has LSU-NO had any female extern in the recent years?
  45. CMistry

    CMistry

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    734
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Dentist SDN 7+ Year Member
    I don't know about externs, but they have a female 1st yr right now.
  46. summersy

    summersy

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2007
    Messages:
    61
    Status:
    Pre-Dental
    SDN 5+ Year Member
    Yes we have had female Externs at LSU-NO... I believe we have actually had 4 or 5 since July 1.
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2012
  47. omfsKiDDo

    omfsKiDDo

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    Thank you so much for your reply! I really appreciate your time!:laugh::thumbup:
  48. omfsKiDDo

    omfsKiDDo

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    Thank you so much! I really appreciate your time!:thumbup::laugh:
  49. FaceDMD

    FaceDMD

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
  50. FaceDMD

    FaceDMD

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    BryanD... it is obvious from your comment that you have never been in an operating room at case.

Share This Page


About the ads