Omfs to ent h&n fellowship

[cat herder 12]

I'm interested in doing a h&n oncology/microvascular fellowship. I'm in a 6 year omfs/MD residency (currently in the middle of my gen surg year). How difficult would it be for someone from my background to match into an ent based fellowship like this? I realize there are h&n oncology fellowships specifically for omfs grads but id like to explore the possibility of doing it through an ent dept. My step 1 score was 230 and step 2 was 244 if this helps.

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[VisionaryTics]

I'm interested in doing a h&n oncology/microvascular fellowship. I'm in a 6 year omfs/MD residency (currently in the middle of my gen surg year). How difficult would it be for someone from my background to match into an ent based fellowship like this? I realize there are h&n oncology fellowships specifically for omfs grads but id like to explore the possibility of doing it through an ent dept. My step 1 score was 230 and step 2 was 244 if this helps.

The AHNS fellowships require board eligibility in ENT, PRS, or general surgery. There are fellowships outside the AHNS system, and unfilled spots will also be available. I'm not sure of any that have a history of taking OMFS applicants.

 

[addy]

The AHNS fellowships require board eligibility in ENT, PRS, or general surgery. There are fellowships outside the AHNS system, and unfilled spots will also be available. I'm not sure of any that have a history of taking OMFS applicants.

Are head and neck fellowships hard to get into for general surgery applicants?

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

Gross oversimplification:
They aren't hard to get into for any applicants. The top places will get the top residents and everywhere else fills in with whatever they can find.

 

[Salamechton]

Gross oversimplification:
They aren't hard to get into for any applicants. The top places will get the top residents and everywhere else fills in with whatever they can find.

Thanks @Pir8DeacDoc for you answer. I have a few questions regarding Gen Surg applicants interested in H&N.
1) Although they aren't hard to get into, would you say those programs require/expect a Gen Surg applicant to devote a year or 2 doing H&N research during residency? In other words, would these programs want Gen Surg applicants to demonstrate their interest in H&N through extensive research/pubs compared to an ENT applicant (who obviously is interested in the H&N region)?
2) For those Gen Surg applicant interested in H&N, would it still be possible to land a H&N fellowship coming from a small Gen Surg community program?
3) Any idea on job prospect for a H&N surgeon without ENT-board certification?

Thanks

 

[member1000765]

"They aren't hard to get into for any applicants" is just wrong, as times have changed significantly. Whenever I was thinking about ENT as a young medical student, H&N wasn't an attractive fellowship due to patient characteristics, work volume, hours, pay, etc. However, over the last 8 years it's been significantly revived as a specialty and is now again drawing the best residents from allopathic ENT programs. With the advances in free flaps, TORS, and endoscopic anterior skull base surgery over the past 10 years, H&N is back as one of the most popular fellowships. Last year, for the first time I believe, there were more applicants than fellowship spots, and those applicants who didn't match weren't lacking in credentials.

I think the days of Gen Surg applicants going into H&N are numbered unless they come from a big academic program with heavy research or a program that does lots of H&N. The fellowship directors will explicitly tell you that the purpose of fellowship is not for honing your skills in neck dissections, thyroids, parotids, laryngectomies, etc. The fellowships are intended to gain competency in free flaps, skull base, robotics, and the most complex extirpative procedures. I don't think they'd be patient with a fellow coming in who's never held an endoscope in the nose, who logged 3 parotids in 5 years of residency, who has never worked on the face, etc.

As for job prospects for H&N without ENT board certification, that's also difficult. H&N jobs are primarily going to be at bigger academic institutions. You can't take ENT call if you aren't ENT trained. If you can't take ENT call, then your value to the H&N division in an ENT department is meaningless; no one wants to hire a young surgeon who can't help in their call pool.

Don't mean to bust your bubble, but you're fighting an uphill battle.

 

[The Anhedonia]

The AHNS fellowships require board eligibility in ENT, PRS, or general surgery. There are fellowships outside the AHNS system, and unfilled spots will also be available. I'm not sure of any that have a history of taking OMFS applicants.

http://www.riversideoralsurgery.com/meet-us/meet-dr-cho/
(I didn't bold the text below just copied from his website)

Dr. Sung Hee Cho is a Board Certified dual-degree Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeon – trained and licensed as both a dentist and a medical doctor – who practices the full scope of oral and maxillofacial surgery while possessing specialized education and experience in managing oral cavity cancers and other pathology, including performing microvascular reconstructive surgery.

Dr. Cho earned his Doctor of Dental Surgery (DDS) degree from Columbia University’s College of Dental Medicine, where he served as Student Body President and co-editor of the student research publication. He then entered the Emory University School of Medicine, where he obtained his Doctor of Medicine (MD) degree. Dr. Cho completed a Residency in Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery under the guidance of the internationally renowned Steven Roser, DMD, MD, an internship in General Surgery, and an American Head and Neck Society-accredited (AHNS) Oncologic and Microvascular Surgical Fellowship in the Department of Otolaryngology. He is the first oral and maxillofacial surgeon in the country to complete this highly specialized Ear, Nose, and Throat (ENT) medical training. Immediately upon completing his Fellowship at Emory, Dr. Cho, his wife Juliane, and their three sons re-located to Bergen County so that Dr. Cho could join Riverside Oral Surgery.

 

[exmike]

You don't need to have an ENT residency to do a head and neck on fellowship, as the above example shows. There is no head and neck oncology "board", and no true "accreditation" since you don't need any certificate to practice it. It is true that finding that there may be hurdles in terms of getting a job doing head&neck oncology without ENT board certification, but it really isn't a huge hurdle. There are general surgeons with head and neck oncology fellowships practicing all over the country. I'm pretty sure Dr. Sung Cho would not know how to do a SPA ligation, or a urgent mastoidectomy for coalescent mastoiditis, so there are issues with being part of an ENT group or academic practice where you cover call. If you can find a position limited to surgical oncology of the head&neck, there is no reason why you wouldn't be able to complete a fellowship and practice it.

 

[shabu2]

You don't need to have an ENT residency to do a head and neck on fellowship, as the above example shows. There is no head and neck oncology "board", and no true "accreditation" since you don't need any certificate to practice it. It is true that finding that there may be hurdles in terms of getting a job doing head&neck oncology without ENT board certification, but it really isn't a huge hurdle. There are general surgeons with head and neck oncology fellowships practicing all over the country. I'm pretty sure Dr. Sung Cho would not know how to do a SPA ligation, or a urgent mastoidectomy for coalescent mastoiditis, so there are issues with being part of an ENT group or academic practice where you cover call. If you can find a position limited to surgical oncology of the head&neck, there is no reason why you wouldn't be able to complete a fellowship and practice it.

I think you are way oversimplifying the process for OMS into any h and n fellowships. Super competitive, highly qualified applicants and arduous training. ENT HandN was even harder. PM me if you want details.

 

[neutropeniaboy]

Plenty of colleagues who are OMFS who do H&N oncology. I'm not sure where or how they trained, but they clearly are out there, as well as OMFS that do PRS. I can't comment on whether the trend is rising, decreasing or is stable.