OMT/OMM

[NontradCA]

Why? Srsly.

I feel like I'm practicing voodoo. I honestly see no difference. Anyone else feel this way? How do you reconcile

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[TopTomato]

Why?

I feel like I'm practicing voodoo. I honestly see no difference. Anyone else feel this way? How do you reconcile?

What goes on in OMM lab stays in OMM lab. And we never speak about it. Ever.

 

[NontradCA]

What goes on in OMM lab stays in OMM lab. And we never speak about it. Ever.

My bad

 

[TopTomato]

My bad

Don't apologize to me... apologize to AT Still.. he's the one you really disappointed

 

[NontradCA]

Don't apologize to me... apologize to AT Still.. he's the one you really disappointed

Damn. Now I gotta pray to the shrine for forgiveness.

 

[meliora27]

Damn. Now I gotta pray to the shrine for forgiveness.

Just make sure you're facing Kirksville when you do this...

On a more serious note, just suck it up. Can't speak for all COM's, but if yours is anything like mine, after M2, aside from a few hours on the PE exam, you will NEVER have to see or do OMM again.

Then match into an ACGME residency, cram the green book one last time right before COMLEX Level 3, go in, pass the test, and for the rest of your life, you can be a doctor, and never, ever, have anything to do with OMM/OMT if that's what you want.

 

[GUH]

Why? Srsly.

I feel like I'm practicing voodoo. I honestly see no difference. Anyone else feel this way? How do you reconcile

Like anything else in medical school.
Learn what you have to learn even if you don't like it or plan to use it.
There is a lot of material in medical school that we are expected to learn but will almost certainly never be clinically useful in my career. But we don't get to choose what we are required to learn. This applies to OMM and any other course.

That being said, your post should be a warning to premeds who come to a DO school but don't actually want to be DO's - you're going to have to learn OMM whether you like it or not. Your colleagues at MD schools will not have to learn it.

 

[Back 5]

It's time to put OMM/OMT on the "prove it" block. The onus is on OMM to prove it works, not the other way around. If it survives the scrutiny, fantastic! Let's utilize it for patient care and bring it to our MD brethren because they will be chomping at the bit to learn this DO secret and take it mainstream.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Okay guys, today we are doing ribs. It so happens that the room with 200 kids all have somatic dysfunction. Golly gee, pretty much the same when we did lumbars 10 minutes ago.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Okay guys, today we are doing ribs. It so happens that the room with 200 kids all have somatic dysfunction. Golly gee, pretty much the same when we did lumbars 10 minutes ago.

Or the MFR that can be treated directly or indirectly, so whatever you do, you are treating it.

 

[GUH]

It's time to put OMM/OMT on the "prove it" block. The onus is on OMM to prove it works, not the other way around. If it survives the scrutiny, fantastic! Let's utilize it for patient care and bring it to our MD brethren because they will be chomping at the bit to learn this DO secret and take it mainstream.

This has been discussed extensively in other threads.

 

[ERK123]

It's time to put OMM/OMT on the "prove it" block. The onus is on OMM to prove it works, not the other way around. If it survives the scrutiny, fantastic! Let's utilize it for patient care and bring it to our MD brethren because they will be chomping at the bit to learn this DO secret and take it mainstream.

I am hoping that this is finally being done at the research center in North Texas.

 

[NontradCA]

Like anything else in medical school.
Learn what you have to learn even if you don't like it or plan to use it.
There is a lot of material in medical school that we are expected to learn but will almost certainly never be clinically useful in my career. But we don't get to choose what we are required to learn. This applies to OMM and any other course.

That being said, your post should be a warning to premeds who come to a DO school but don't actually want to be DO's - you're going to have to learn OMM whether you like it or not. Your colleagues at MD schools will not have to learn it.

Being a DO =/= OMM.

 

[SLC]

Fake it till you make it, that's what I always told myself.

And counter-strain and muscle energy were at least temporarily effective and insanely easy to learn so I don't begrudge my time spent on those.

But as was said earlier, once 3rd year hits, OMM all but goes away for those students not interested in using it. I had to do like 4 patient logs and a journal article review each semester of 3rd and 4th year and it sounds like that was more than most schools. It wasn't bad.

 

[touchpause13]

I actually can feel a difference with most of this. Still think it's a lot of hippy dippy ****, but ya know.
As others have said, it's not like you actually are spending that much time on it in the long run, just bull**** through it and learn what you need to for boards and don't worry about it again

 

[GUH]

Being a DO =/= OMM.

It's part of being a DO. If you thought you could earn a DO degree without learning OMM then you were very mistaken. You would have also been mistaken if you thought you could earn a DO degree without learning histology or pathology or pharmacology, I'm sure you knew this, though.

 

[NontradCA]

I actually can feel a difference with most of this.

 

[touchpause13]

rofl I just have a habit at excelling in areas of medical school that are unimportant and stupid, fml.

 

[DocVapor]

View attachment 192054
rofl I just have a habit at excelling in areas of medical school that are unimportant and stupid, fml.

Don't worry, you aren't alone. I can definitely feel some things and think OMM does help at times, though I doubt I will be doing much of it in my field. When we were going over lectures for our one (maybe 2?) cranial labs, I was like "This is BS, who could feel that?". Then when we got in lab I could actually feel the CRI, on multiple people.

I got ridiculed for even saying I could feel it, even though I am I not convinced that it is actually what they say it is, or that it means something. And I would probably never use cranial. But after having felt it myself, I try to remind people that just because they personally can't feel something, it doesn't mean it isn't there.

 

[GUH]

Don't worry, you aren't alone. I can definitely feel some things and think OMM does help at times, though I doubt I will be doing much of it in my field. When we were going over lectures for our one (maybe 2?) cranial labs, I was like "This is BS, who could feel that?". Then when we got in lab I could actually feel the CRI, on multiple people.

I got ridiculed for even saying I could feel it, even though I am I not convinced that it is actually what they say it is, or that it means something. And I would probably never use cranial. But after having felt it myself, I try to remind people that just because they personally can't feel something, it doesn't mean it isn't there.

That pretty much sums up my experience as well.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

And counter-strain and muscle energy were at least temporarily effective and insanely easy to learn so I don't begrudge my time spent on those.

We had like 200 points to learn for counterstrain with treatments. I'd say this was a lot harder than doing any of the other techniques.

 

[hallowmann]

That pretty much sums up my experience as well.

Same exact thing here. Felt it. Don't think it's what they say it is/works the way they say it does. Will likely never do it again.

 

[DocVapor]

Awww guys!!

 

[SLC]

We had like 200 points to learn for counterstrain with treatments. I'd say this was a lot harder than doing any of the other techniques.

The concept is simple though, find a tender-point fold around it. As long as you can shorten the muscle passively, you're doing it right.

I never memorized the points per se, just grasped the concept of what CS is actually trying to accomplish.

 

[touchpause13]

The concept is simple though, find a tender-point fold around it. As long as you can shorten the muscle passively, you're doing it right.

I never memorized the points per se, just grasped the concept of what CS is actually trying to accomplish.

Yup. Pretty much you
1. Find the thing
2. Shorten the muscle that is bugging the thing
3. Don't let the pt help you
4. Magic

 

[MetalloBetalactamase]

 

[hallowmann]

Yup. Pretty much you
1. Find the thing
2. Shorten the muscle that is bugging the thing
3. Don't let the pt help you
4. Magic

This works 99% of the time, except the few exceptions where you fold in the almost opposite way.

CS TPs still might take time to memorize the first time around though depending on region. Like you have to know AC1 is mid-mandibular ramus and what not.

 

[ortnakas]

This works 99% of the time, except the few exceptions where you fold in the almost opposite way.

CS TPs still might take time to memorize the first time around though depending on region. Like you have to know AC1 is mid-mandibular ramus and what not.

Today we found out cervical CS is on our final, despite the fact we didn't actually cover it in lab this semester. FML. Worst case scenario I'm reverting to touchpause13's methodology.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

So from what I've been able to tell, OMM is so very school dependent. As is with many things in medicine, it really comes down to what your faculty deems important or what they are personally interested in. Mine happened to have been heavily interested in the (erhm) lesser evidence based aspects of osteopathy. That's ok for them. But for someone like me coming from a career in sports med, it was disappointing. I had more of an interest in furthering my MSK knowledge from the level it already was at. Instead, those topics were basically brushed over. So I received a very rudimentary introduction to things I already knew MSK wise and then a pretty thorough run down on the "other" topics. There are pluses and minuses to this scenario.

Pros: Coming into school I didn't already know that "other" stuff [cranial, chapman's etc], so at least it has made prepping for boards that much less of a "learning" chore when I get to those topics to review.

Cons: I really don't want to know those topics this well. OMM has a lot more to offer than that.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Today we found out cervical CS is on our final, despite the fact we didn't actually cover it in lab this semester. FML. Worst case scenario I'm reverting to touchpause13's methodology.

Cervical CS points are not too bad. Anterior ones are FSARA (with exceptions) and posterior ones are ESARA (with exceptions). All are bilateral except for one posterior CS. It'll literally take you less than an hour to have them down.

The tough ones are the pelvic CSs. These will drive you nuts.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

The concept is simple though, find a tender-point fold around it. As long as you can shorten the muscle passively, you're doing it right.

I never memorized the points per se, just grasped the concept of what CS is actually trying to accomplish.

Lucky for you because for us they ask us bull**** like "how can you find CS point X?" and the answer choices are things like "4cm medial and 1 inch inferior of ASIS," etc.

 

[hallowmann]

Today we found out cervical CS is on our final, despite the fact we didn't actually cover it in lab this semester. FML. Worst case scenario I'm reverting to touchpause13's methodology.

Yeah, that's unfortunately not surprising. All anterior points are F SARA except for AC1, which is just RA, and AC7, which is F STRA. All posterior points are E SARA except for PC1 midline, which is just F, and PC3 midline, which is F SARA. Gotta know the exceptions, because more often than not that's what they test. Good luck!

 

[Promethean]

I'm grateful for threads like this that don't JUST bust on OMM, but also give some hint about what the heck it actually is / what we will actually be doing. I'm insanely curious.

As far as I know, it is voodoo. However, if so, it is voodoo that people I know claim helped them when other things didn't, and that an MD of my acquaintance says she wishes she'd had an opportunity to learn.

I don't really have a problem with practicing magic, if it helps people. I am a pragmatist that way. I know a lot of people who do unscientific things that make them feel better, like meditation, or prayer, or even practicing African diaspora religions like "real" voodoo / Santeria. I just think you have to be honest about what you are doing, so no one is confused.

If I find that OMM is helpful to people, I will probably use it in my practice. I will explain that it isn't strongly supported by evidence and that I don't have strong scientific explanations for how it works, if it works at all. I certainly am not going to be hard selling it on those terms, and yet, I think that one could build a pretty healthy clientele of people who want the treatment even when it is presented that way. People like my mom, who has intractable musculoskeletal pain s/p a car accident decades ago, but refuses to take the pain medications her docs offer her because she doesn't want to use narcs. (With all the drug seekers we see, it is hard to believe that people like her exist, but there are a lot of them in her generation.) She'd be grateful for something that might help her pain, even if it wasn't particularly scientific.

I've argued pretty stridently in other threads against using Reiki and certain other "alternative" modalities, so this might seem like hypocrisy. But I always come back to this idea, that what matters is that we don't misrepresent something as being more proven than it is. I'm sure that some of the people who teach me this art will be True Believers. That's cool. You do what ya gotta do in school. Once I learn it, I can make an informed decision about its value.

 

[NontradCA]

Yeah, that's unfortunately not surprising. All anterior points are F SARA except for AC1, which is just RA, and AC7, which is F STRA. All posterior points are E SARA except for PC1 midline, which is just F, and PC3 midline, which is F SARA. Gotta know the exceptions, because more often than not that's what they test. Good luck!

You need to add in an adequate preparatory technique for it to go.

Sequence:

1. In a LARGE juice pitcher (1 gallon/4 litres), stir together the 3 packages of koolaid and the sugar.
2. Add about 1/3 of the water and stir well, making sure Kool-Aid and sugar dissolves.
3. Slowly stir in remaining water; chill.
4. Profit.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

You need to add in an adequate preparatory technique for it to go.

Sequence:

1. In a LARGE juice pitcher (1 gallon/4 litres), stir together the 3 packages of koolaid and the sugar.
2. Add about 1/3 of the water and stir well, making sure Kool-Aid and sugar dissolves.
3. Slowly stir in remaining water; chill.
4. Profit.

Its funny because I have a classmate I told at the beginning of the year that all this was, was kool-aid. He said "but the kool-aid tastes good!" Now he hates OMM and I always give him **** over this comment.

 

[hallowmann]

You need to add in an adequate preparatory technique for it to go.

Sequence:

1. In a LARGE juice pitcher (1 gallon/4 litres), stir together the 3 packages of koolaid and the sugar.
2. Add about 1/3 of the water and stir well, making sure Kool-Aid and sugar dissolves.
3. Slowly stir in remaining water; chill.
4. Profit.

Yeah, that koolaid is worth 20% of the board exam I have to take in a few weeks. Gotta know how to make it. You can thank me next year when you get 10 points higher on level 1 because of my post.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Yeah, that koolaid is worth 20% of the board exam I have to take in a few weeks. Gotta know how to make it. You can thank me next year when you get 10 points higher on level 1 because of my post.

Good luck on your boards.

 

[NontradCA]

Yeah, that koolaid is worth 20% of the board exam I have to take in a few weeks. Gotta know how to make it. You can thank me next year when you get 10 points higher on level 1 because of my post.

Is it really 20%? Nuts. I guess that justifies knowing it, if for nothing else.

 

[meliora27]

@hallowmann, if you're planning on also taking the USMLE and applying to ACGME programs, than I wouldn't waste to much time on the "other 20%". Focus on the low hanging fruit, the stuff that you can memorize with a few hour of flashcards, chapman's, viscerosomatics, etc. Punt the rest, and focus on stuff that will score you much needed points on the USMLE (assuming you're taking it). That should open more doors to you and serve you better in the future I feel.

 

[hallowmann]

Is it really 20%? Nuts. I guess that justifies knowing it, if for nothing else.

Yeah, that's what I've heard. 20% total for OMM. That's why people need to cram Savarese, Chapman's and VS's in between their USMLE date and their COMLEX date.

@hallowmann, if you're planning on also taking the USMLE and applying to ACGME programs, than I wouldn't waste to much time on the "other 20%". Focus on the low hanging fruit, the stuff that you can memorize with a few hour of flashcards, chapman's, viscerosomatics, etc. Punt the rest, and focus on stuff that will score you much needed points on the USMLE (assuming you're taking it). That should open more doors to you and serve you better in the future I feel.

Haha, yeah, don't worry, I'm not focusing on OMM at all. I actually learned almost all the "high yield" stuff pretty well the first time around, so I don't plan on reviewing OMM until maybe a few days before.

I'm actually considering switching my dates to get an extra week for USMLE prep, but I'll see how a later NBME goes and decide on it. I'm just worried a bit to go against the conventional wisdom of USMLE, few days, then COMLEX.

 

[NontradCA]

Yeah, that's what I've heard. 20% total for OMM. That's why people need to cram Savarese, Chapman's and VS's in between their USMLE date and their COMLEX date.



Haha, yeah, don't worry, I'm not focusing on OMM at all. I actually learned almost all the "high yield" stuff pretty well the first time around, so I don't plan on reviewing OMM until maybe a few days before.

I'm actually considering switching my dates to get an extra week for USMLE prep, but I'll see how a later NBME goes and decide on it. I'm just worried a bit to go against the conventional wisdom of USMLE, few days, then COMLEX.

Good luck man.

 

[SLC]

It's too late for those already scheduled, but to those who will take step-1 and level-1 in the future I highly recommend taking COMLEX first.

Reason being that one week spent studying the material that's on COMLEX and not USMLE is wasted time IMO. You just don't need a week to adequately review OMM.

However, one week is a huge advantage when you've taken COMLEX and realized that you could probably spend a little longer with Biochem or Micro before taking the USMLE. Think of it as a real-world test of your weak points, a practice run so-to-speak.

This is of course based on the notion that you will be applying to ACGME programs as a priority, and that the programs are reasonably attainable. If you plan to apply mainly AOA, or are thinking of something less likely to happen in ACGME like Gen-Surg, then making COMLEX your priority would be the smarter move.

 

[kenjixshadow]

It's too late for those already scheduled, but to those who will take step-1 and level-1 in the future I highly recommend taking COMLEX first.

Reason being that one week spent studying the material that's on COMLEX and not USMLE is wasted time IMO. You just don't need a week to adequately review OMM.

However, one week is a huge advantage when you've taken COMLEX and realized that you could probably spend a little longer with Biochem or Micro before taking the USMLE. Think of it as a real-world test of your weak points, a practice run so-to-speak.

This is of course based on the notion that you will be applying to ACGME programs as a priority, and that the programs are reasonably attainable. If you plan to apply mainly AOA, or are thinking of something less likely to happen in ACGME like Gen-Surg, then making COMLEX your priority would be the smarter move.

@meliora27 & @SLC
Sounds great. I have a question however. If taking the COMLEX first, I presume ppl still need to cram OMM like Savarese, Chapman, and VS during dedicated study time.
Say if I have 6 weeks to study, on week 5, should I do COMQUEST & COMBANK & COMSAE questions for OMM preparation? Or ignore them and hit the green book 2-3 days before the COMLEX?
If I do both, they may take too much time away from hitting UFAP unless one can compensate the lost study time by adding 1 extra week.

 

[kenjixshadow]

Double post. X

 

[NurWollen]

It's too late for those already scheduled, but to those who will take step-1 and level-1 in the future I highly recommend taking COMLEX first.

Reason being that one week spent studying the material that's on COMLEX and not USMLE is wasted time IMO. You just don't need a week to adequately review OMM.

However, one week is a huge advantage when you've taken COMLEX and realized that you could probably spend a little longer with Biochem or Micro before taking the USMLE. Think of it as a real-world test of your weak points, a practice run so-to-speak.

This is of course based on the notion that you will be applying to ACGME programs as a priority, and that the programs are reasonably attainable. If you plan to apply mainly AOA, or are thinking of something less likely to happen in ACGME like Gen-Surg, then making COMLEX your priority would be the smarter move.

That's exactly the way I'm doing it. I'll have a week after taking COMLEX to reinforce weak spots for the USMLE. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Uworld can be quite depressing.

 

[SLC]

@meliora27 & @SLC
Sounds great. I have a question however. If taking the COMLEX first, I presume ppl still need to cram OMM like Savarese, Chapman, and VS during dedicated study time.
Say if I have 6 weeks to study, on week 5, should I do COMQUEST & COMBANK & COMSAE questions for OMM preparation? Or ignore them and hit the green book 2-3 days before the COMLEX?
If I do both, they may take too much time away from hitting UFAP unless one can compensate the lost study time by adding 1 extra week.

2-3 days of OMM review is the max I would have been willing to do. But that obviously needs to be based on how comfortable you are with it. As much as I hated OMM, and believe me I did, I found the concepts behind it pretty simple for the most part. I can answer the sacral dysfunction questions pretty much automatically for example, so I didn't see spending time hammering the finer points home as valuable. If you can decipher a sacral question, know some cursory cranial stuff (barf), and know some of the basic theory for spinal segment mechanics you should be good to go.

Spend your time between the exams polishing your skills for the USMLE.

 

[SLC]

That's exactly the way I'm doing it. I'll have a week after taking COMLEX to reinforce weak spots for the USMLE. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Uworld can be quite depressing.

Don't let UWorld get you down. It's much harder than the real thing (at least the exam I got) and the scores you get in timed non-tutor mode are not supposed to be indicative of how you'll do. Just use it as a learning tool and try to not focus on the percentage scores as much as you can.

 

[meliora27]

I wouldn't spend more than 2 days on solely OMM review. I think knowing Chapman's and VS and a cursory read of the green book should be enough OMM to handle what comes your way on Level 1. This assumes that you're taking the USMLE and that will be your focus. If you're taking only COMLEX or applying to a competitive field and will likely match in the AOA match, than every point you can get on COMLEX is going to help you.

When I took Level/Step 1, I took COMLEX first and then spent the next nine days going over biochem, physiology, some more in depth path, and autonomic pharmacology (also helped to reinforce some physi0). I also re-watched the first few chapters of Pathoma where he goes over a lot of the very basics of cellular injury, inflammation, etc.

The USMLE was my focus and I knew I would only be applying to ACGME programs, so I couldn't justify spending too much quality time on OMM. Obviously I wanted to do well, but I viewed the COMLEX as more of a pass/fail thing.

 

[kp11]

I like doing HVLA and getting that "POP"... but Chapman's points? Not too sure.

 

[SLC]

I wouldn't spend more than 2 days on solely OMM review. I think knowing Chapman's and VS and a cursory read of the green book should be enough OMM to handle what comes your way on Level 1. This assumes that you're taking the USMLE and that will be your focus. If you're taking only COMLEX or applying to a competitive field and will likely match in the AOA match, than every point you can get on COMLEX is going to help you.

When I took Level/Step 1, I took COMLEX first and then spent the next nine days going over biochem, physiology, some more in depth path, and autonomic pharmacology (also helped to reinforce some physi0). I also re-watched the first few chapters of Pathoma where he goes over a lot of the very basics of cellular injury, inflammation, etc.

The USMLE was my focus and I knew I would only be applying to ACGME programs, so I couldn't justify spending too much quality time on OMM. Obviously I wanted to do well, but I viewed the COMLEX as more of a pass/fail thing.

Pretty much this! Pass it, and use it as a "practice run" for the USMLE.