Once in a Lifetime [Pharmacist Offer]

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awval999

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Hello.

Just a standard hospital pharmacist working for a community hospital of a large hospital health system. Getting married in the near future. No children. Living the life. Not rich by any means. But obviously can pay my bills. Perhaps a quarter-life crisis on the horizon.

On a whim I went for something others probably couldn't or wouldn't.

I have a job offer here:

almaryah_ccad.jpg


at Cleveland Clinic Abu Dhabi.

For non geography minded pharmacists, that's located here:
uae.gif


Abu Dhabi is the capital of the UAE, the richer, albeit less flashy neighbor of Dubai.

Skyline pictures:

abu_dhabi.jpg


Job allows a spouse visa. Wouldn't go without her of course.

Wife is a teacher, would have to resign, but currently doesn't like her job anyway. She would be able to find a teaching job in Abu Dhabi but no guarantees.

I would say combined we currently make $140k gross. ($105k + $35k)

Salary? Won't get specific but all inclusive ~ $160k tax free

* The foreign earned income exclusion rises to $99,200 for tax year 2014 in addition to a maximum of $49,687 of housing exclusion Abu Dhabi (a high cost city per Form 2555).

I would be taxed, federally only, on any remainder >$99.2k + housing expenses (average $2500/month or $30k/year). Looking at a tax liability of 25% of ~ $25k or ~$6000 total federal .
====================================

Looking for thoughts, feelings, opinions.

Position will be a flex hybrid position, some clinical some staffing.

Addendum:
Current combined student loans of husband+wife = $125,000.
Currently have good seniority at current job, and like current job.
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I have been looking for a job in the uae for a while ...any idea how I may search for it ? Thank you
 
How are the benefits? 401 k? Vacation?
 
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BMBiology said:
How are the benefits? 401 k? Vacation?
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There is no 401k. You are technically working for the Abu Dhabi government public/private arm.
There is a sign-off gratuity. Which is one month pay for every year you work.
Health insurance is paid by the company at no cost.

Annual leave is 25 days in addition to the following holidays:

January 1, New Year’s Day
January 12, the Prophet’s birthday
May 26, Israa and Miraj night
June 28, Ramadan expected to begin
July 28, Eid Al Fitr
October 3, Arafat Day
October 4, Eid Al Adha
October 25, Hijri New Year
December 2 and 3, National Day

Obviously I would have to work some holidays.

I'm interested in your opinion BMBiology you're one of my favorites around here.
 
My sister and her husband have been there for work. They enjoyed it, but found the weather difficult to tolerate. Certain times of the year, you pretty much have to stay inside because it's so hot. And it's not the greatest place for women, though American women have it better than others, in some ways. This sounds like an interesting opportunity, for sure. Good luck!
 
Financially I am doing much better than I ever thought I would be doing but life as a pharmacist is dull. That is the only reason why I would consider taking the offer especially if your future wife also likes the idea. This is how I see it:

(1) Even if she can't find a job, you guys would be financially better off (assuming the high cost of living is covered).
(2) You seem like a guy with good reasoning skills (major plus in pharmacy) so I am sure you can get another position in the state if things don't work out.
(3) Plenty of time off. You can spend some time traveling in Asia and Europe.
(4) You don't have any kids and when you have them, I am sure there are good American schools in Dubai. It is an international city with a lot of American businesses.

My two concerns are the hot weather and the different culture. I think women are expected to cover up there.

I wouldn't do it if it is just me but I would seriously consider it if she wants to do it too. Like you said, it is a chance of a lifetime.
 
I wouldn't go to Qatar or the UAE unless you were paying me >300k tax free. After that year I would simply leave. Money just isn't that important to me.
 
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I'd take it in a second.
 
I am more concerned about your future wife. American men are generally well treated in foreign counties but some of these countries treat their women like crap.

If she can't find a job then what is she going to do?
 
BMBiology said:
I am more concerned about your future wife. American men are generally well treated in foreign counties but some of these countries treat their women like crap.

If she can't find a job then what is she going to do?
Click to expand...

Online and classes and enjoy the extra income?
 
The numbers look good. If you guys are not in a hurry to start a family, I think it's an profitable adventure worth doing for a few years.

Not sure how easy it is for a woman to find a decent job over there, but if at all possible, she should either be working or going to school for a higher degree. Financially you don't need it, but I'm guessing you guys aren't foreseeing working until you retire over there. If so then eventually she'll need those job skills when she returns state side. Maybe they'll have openings for teacher at the schools for expat's kids.
 
my suggestion: Spend a few days in that country before making up your mind. Moving countries, especially one 17 hours away by plane, isn't easy.
 
sorry confused on how this works - so you would have to pay US federal taxes on $60,000? so how much would you net about? is your housing covered?
 
Last edited:
MackandBlues said:
sorry confused on how this works - so you would have to pay US federal taxes on $60,000? so how much would you net about? is your housing covered?
Click to expand...

I would pay for housing out of the salary, which is expensive. I would pay taxes on approx $20k US or about $5k in tax liability. I would net net ~$150kish
 
what's the cost of living compared to the states? 150k might seem like a good salary but that might not be enough when ferraris and lambos are the norm over there. I think even the cops have them
 
Female English teachers are supposedly in high demand in Arab countries, because female students can only be taught by female teachers in certain Arab countries. So OP, what subject does your lady teach and are you going to get married before moving there with her? I would think that you would need to be married or live completely separately in both private and public matters if you aren't married.

How do I know about teaching programs? Because I was getting so desperate at one point, being in these golden handcuffs and all, that I was seriously considering dumping pharmacy altogether and teaching English abroad instead! But I'm ok right now where I'm at in my career, so I won't be teaching English abroad any time soon... but here's a few leads if you would like them.

The interwebs is your "wife's" friend:
www.teachaway.com
www.emirates247.com

It appears as if she can teach male and female students there from this woman's website.

I'll verify, though, with my boyfriend's friend Asiri if females can teach males and vice versa in the UAE.
 
awval999 said:
On Tuesday I declined the offer.

Thanks for all of your comments/thoughts/opinions!
Click to expand...

Can you share your thoughts process? My fellow pulmonary director has a son-in-law who is making bank working in Afghanistan as a IT contractor for the military. $200k+/yr for a job well protected by soldiers that would other wise be paying $60-80K/yr state side.

Just my opinion, well really my dad's opinion, "it's better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big pond/ocean". But please share your more in depth analysis, if anything it would help the rest of the forum.
 
Id like to know the thought process behind this as well. Seems like a pretty sweet deal.
 
xiphoid2010 said:
Can you share your thoughts process? My fellow pulmonary director has a son-in-law who is making bank working in Afghanistan as a IT contractor for the military. $200k+/yr for a job well protected by soldiers that would other wise be paying $60-80K/yr state side.

Just my opinion, well really my dad's opinion, "it's better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big pond/ocean". But please share your more in depth analysis, if anything it would help the rest of the forum.
Click to expand...

I know a chick who does translating work for the military in Afghanistan. She goes twice a year for 2 months at a time, comes back and just seems to party the rest of the time. Makes a little over $100k. She's only 21...
 
The offer was approaching $160k, but only if you took the housing allowance as cash. If you took employer provided housing (complete with utilities, etc) the offer drops to $110k. That would be tax free though.
Yes, housing is expensive out there. But if you took the housing allowance as cash you could rent a 1 br and pocket the difference. However, the issue then is that you are on a 1 year lease instead of month-to-month and dealing with Emiritis instead of the hospital.

I personally like my job right now. I have seniority. I am protected from layoffs, Obamacare, whatever you want to call it.
My goal, target, whatever you want to call it, I was wanting/expecting $150k + housing provided. And to be honest the offer never got there, their final offer was $110k + housing provided.

Abu Dhabi isn't Florida. It isn't California. It isn't Hawaii. It's an absolute life change and change in quality of life. I love adventure. I love travel. It just wasn't enough money. It wasn't worth throwing away a job I love, a job I am protected in via seniority and culture.
 
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kapolinak said:
Whoa, how does one acquire those? Isn't it for visitors only, excluding those with a workers visa?
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It is for non-Muslim permanent residents.

Typically tourists/visitors don't get a license even though drinking is technically illegal without one. As long as a tourist only drinks in a hotel everyone will look the other way.
 
I agree with your decision - I would have wanted the same level of compensation to make up for such a drastic move
 
awval999 said:
The offer was approaching $160k, but only if you took the housing allowance as cash. If you took employer provided housing (complete with utilities, etc) the offer drops to $110k. That would be tax free though.
Yes, housing is expensive out there. But if you took the housing allowance as cash you could rent a 1 br and pocket the difference. However, the issue then is that you are on a 1 year lease instead of month-to-month and dealing with Emiritis instead of the hospital.

I personally like my job right now. I have seniority. I am protected from layoffs, Obamacare, whatever you want to call it.
My goal, target, whatever you want to call it, I was wanting/expecting $150k + housing provided. And to be honest the offer never got there, their final offer was $110k + housing provided.

Abu Dhabi isn't Florida. It isn't California. It isn't Hawaii. It's an absolute life change and change in quality of life. I love adventure. I love travel. It just wasn't enough money. It wasn't worth throwing away a job I love, a job I am protected in via seniority and culture.
Click to expand...

That's a big gap. The lack of 401K, plus the cost and time spent flying/jet lagged, potential loss of your wife's income. You made a sound call.
 
Ok... So I finally was able to find out from my boyfriend's friend last night if females could teach males and females, and he said that they can teach both. HOWEVER, whenever my boyfriend mentioned that my "friend" was thinking about taking a job over there, he shook his head like "don't do it".

So yeah, I believe you made the right decision!
 
Sparda---they job is yours!
 
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KARM12 said:
Sparda---they job is yours!
Click to expand...

My conundrum.

I'm transferring to the peds hospital next month. I'm quite interested with this hospital (Cleveland Clinic UAE). And my boss from the independent pharmacy just texted me this morning offering me a full-time position at a new store that he's opening up. He said he'd match whatever the peds hospital offered me and that I'd be running the show (he'd just do the busy paperwork and come by to pay me.)
 
Sparda

If you take the independent job, make sure that he lets you buy in even if its at a latter date.
 
southpharmindy said:
Sparda

If you take the independent job, make sure that he lets you buy in even if its at a latter date.
Click to expand...

I'm leaning against the independent job.

The peds hospital just invested $150 million into the hospital and hired 5 other pharmacists along with me. They are here to stay and plan on becoming the best peds hospital in NYC so I'm safe with them.
 
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Let me paint a picture for you.

2 million in sales. This corresponds to approx. 120 scripts per day. Gross margins are 20%. Thats 400k to pay your staff, bills, and yourself. That is on 120 scripts per day or close to 600 a week.

How hard would it be for you to build that?
 
southpharmindy said:
Let me paint a picture for ye.

2 million in sales. This corresponds to approx. 120 scripts per day. Gross margins be 20%. Thats 400k to pay yer staff, bills, and yourself. That be on 120 scripts per day or close to 600 a week.

How hard would it be for ye to build that?
Click to expand...

I can' tolerate retail pharmacy more than once or twice a month. I've forgotten everything about insurance and billing (I just type in the script info and whatever it asks me for and if it gets rejected I tell them to call their insurance company, nothing more.) Unless I have a super-tech doing drop-off/billing for me, I'm pretty screwed.
 
Sparda29 said:
I'm leaning against the independent job.

The peds hospital just invested $150 million into the hospital and hired 5 other pharmacists along with me. They are here to stay and plan on becoming the best peds hospital in NYC so I'm safe with them.
Click to expand...

What hospital? if you don't mind me asking
 
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