Online Programs- Pros & Cons

[erg923]

I'm fine with that.

Has anyone made a cogent argument for an actual pro? Learning the WAIS in your pajama's doesn't count...

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[Therapist4Chnge]

I was tempted to name it "Online Programs: Cons & Cons"...but I didn't want my personal view to overshadow the thread. I'm pretty sure anyone who reads the thread and comes out thinking online training is a viable option would hold that position whether they read this thread or not.

 

[futurepsydoc]

I was tempted to name it "Online Programs: Cons & Cons"...but I didn't want my personal view to overshadow the thread. I'm pretty sure anyone who reads the thread and comes out thinking online training is a viable option would hold that position whether they read this thread or not.

Agreed

 

[Phipps]

T4C

Of course I can ot speak for Capella or any other institution. Again, Fielding is not online.

Hi Neuropsych2be:

I appreciate the wealth of information you are providing to this forum. Since I go through phases where I am interested in Fielding (I am a non-traditional student + non-native speaker with extremely, non competitive GRE scores - otherwise grades are great, research experience, RA, poster, paper presentation etc.). However, since I discovered the on probation status, I am more hesitant than ever to apply. I emailed APA and APA encouraged me to ask Fielding as to why the status on probation exists. Well, in my honest attempt, I did, but did not get a response at all!!

I signed up for the teleconference intended to address the current status. I than was informed that current students will get a $75 waiver for taking part in the teleconference. Well, I am not a student at F and withdrew from the Teleconference.

A bummer, but, I would really want to know why F is on probation for its Ph.D. program...would you be able to help me out OR ANY other takers? Thanks,
Ms. Phipps

 

[edieb]

A $75 waiver...is that like a gift certificate or something??? PLEASE APA, yank this school's accreditation. This place is an embarassment to the field

Hi Neuropsych2be:

I appreciate the wealth of information you are providing to this forum. Since I go through phases where I am interested in Fielding (I am a non-traditional student + non-native speaker with extremely, non competitive GRE scores - otherwise grades are great, research experience, RA, poster, paper presentation etc.). However, since I discovered the on probation status, I am more hesitant than ever to apply. I emailed APA and APA encouraged me to ask Fielding as to why the status on probation exists. Well, in my honest attempt, I did, but did not get a response at all!!

I signed up for the teleconference intended to address the current status. I than was informed that current students will get a $75 waiver for taking part in the teleconference. Well, I am not a student at F and withdrew from the Teleconference.

A bummer, but, I would really want to know why F is on probation for its Ph.D. program...would you be able to help me out OR ANY other takers? Thanks,
Ms. Phipps

 

[Neuropsych2be]

Hi Neuropsych2be:

I appreciate the wealth of information you are providing to this forum. Since I go through phases where I am interested in Fielding (I am a non-traditional student + non-native speaker with extremely, non competitive GRE scores - otherwise grades are great, research experience, RA, poster, paper presentation etc.). However, since I discovered the on probation status, I am more hesitant than ever to apply. I emailed APA and APA encouraged me to ask Fielding as to why the status on probation exists. Well, in my honest attempt, I did, but did not get a response at all!!

I signed up for the teleconference intended to address the current status. I than was informed that current students will get a $75 waiver for taking part in the teleconference. Well, I am not a student at F and withdrew from the Teleconference.

A bummer, but, I would really want to know why F is on probation for its Ph.D. program...would you be able to help me out OR ANY other takers? Thanks,
Ms. Phipps

The issue of accreditation and probation has to do with the length of time to graduation. APA is unhappy that Fielding students can take a significant period of time to complete the program. The program is working very hard to revise and streamline and shorten the curriculum so that time to completion is shortened. Fielding actually has in the past had more requirements than most programs and many students take longer to complete their degrees than in traditional programs. As far as a fee for information sessions, I am completely unaware of anything of the sort. And I know nothing of a waiver. Why would a current student attend such an information session in the first place? Did they try and charge you for participation in an information session? This makes no sense to me.

 

[Phipps]

Why would a current student attend such an information session in the first place? Did they try and charge you for participation in an information session? This makes no sense to me.

Thanks for the reply! Good information.

Well, in regards to the $$ they seem to charge non matriculated students: I emailed back and they withdrew me from the list for the teleconference and I was not charged anything.

I think it would make sense to participate in an information session if I was a clinical student there b/c finding yourself all of a sudden in a program that is on probation would make me a nervous rack and graduating from such a program (on probation) certainly can have some serious consequences for my future career. At least, I would be concerned - especially, since I would have chose F b/c of APA accreditation. Finding that my program is on probation is not what I would want to see...
just my two cents

Phipps

 

[domineus]

The issue of accreditation and probation has to do with the length of time to graduation. APA is unhappy that Fielding students can take a significant period of time to complete the program. The program is working very hard to revise and streamline and shorten the curriculum so that time to completion is shortened. Fielding actually has in the past had more requirements than most programs and many students take longer to complete their degrees than in traditional programs. As far as a fee for information sessions, I am completely unaware of anything of the sort. And I know nothing of a waiver. Why would a current student attend such an information session in the first place? Did they try and charge you for participation in an information session? This makes no sense to me.

not to gravedig but I just went to an information session
I honestly didn't know the incentive, I wanted to know about funding for research (after reading the forum that funding is very important)

We were told that for attending the information session, the $75 application fee would be waived...I didn't even know...

I applied to four different schools (fielding being the last school) and I said if I'm not losing anything to apply, why not apply?

However, through the session, there was clarification on the probation status; and it wasn't for curriculum as you have eluded to but completion of program. Many students are there for 10 years...with all due respect

I'll see how it goes from here though and shoot a PM to you soon

 

[Phipps]

not to gravedig but I just went to an information session
I honestly didn't know the incentive, I wanted to know about funding for research (after reading the forum that funding is very important)

We were told that for attending the information session, the $75 application fee would be waived...I didn't even know...

I applied to four different schools (fielding being the last school) and I said if I'm not losing anything to apply, why not apply?

However, through the session, there was clarification on the probation status; and it wasn't for curriculum as you have eluded to but completion of program. Many students are there for 10 years...with all due respect

I'll see how it goes from here though and shoot a PM to you soon

Hi,

I would be interested in learning more about your impression on Fielding. I emailed them and asked about the probation status and never got a response.
If you want to PM, please do so, otherwise, something of interest to all. I think for a nontraditional studnet, Fielding may be a good choice...what do you think???

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Hi,

I would be interested in learning more about your impression on Fielding. I emailed them and asked about the probation status and never got a response.
If you want to PM, please do so, otherwise, something of interest to all. I think for a nontraditional studnet, Fielding may be a good choice...what do you think???

1. They are on probation, which is hard to do.
2. The blended model is not held in high regard by the field, which may impact viability as a student and professional.
3. It is very expensive.
4. The "average" (mean?) completion time is far higher than most other programs AND the attrition rate is too high.
5. Their match rate is not good.

Those would be the first five (of many) concerns I'd have with Fielding.

If an applicant is unable to make the necessary sacrifices to complete a tradition program, they are best served by considering other professions. An MA/MS/MSW, etc may be a better option, depending on their career goals.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

1. They are on probation, which is hard to do.
2. The blended model is not held in high regard by the field, which may impact viability as a student and professional.
3. It is very expensive.
4. The "average" (mean?) completion time is far higher than most other programs AND the attrition rate is too high.
5. Their match rate is not good.

Those would be the first five (of many) concerns I'd have with Fielding.

If an applicant is unable to make the necessary sacrifices to complete a tradition program, they are best served by considering other professions. An MA/MS/MSW, etc may be a better option, depending on their career goals.

I completely agree. However, I also think we should point out that "nontraditional student," as mentioned in the post above yours, doesn't apply quite as well to clinical psychology students as it does undergraduates (or even to many other graduate/professional fields). There are many individuals in clinical doctoral programs who are older, have switched careers, have families, come from all ranges of ethnic/cultural/socioeconomic backgrounds, etc. While the average student is likely mid-20's and on their first "real" career, that generalization does a fairly horrible job of describing the doctoral population as a whole.

 

[domineus]

Hi,

I would be interested in learning more about your impression on Fielding. I emailed them and asked about the probation status and never got a response.
If you want to PM, please do so, otherwise, something of interest to all. I think for a nontraditional studnet, Fielding may be a good choice...what do you think???

During the sessions, it was indicated that it wasn't the program that was the cause of the probation status. It was the length of time, which statistically is far greater than any other program. Period. Some students are spending upward 10 years to complete a doctoral program is insane.

Browsing some other things, I notice that they only accept 1/3 of any applicants and form that, about 3/4 of the applicants actually enroll. So, at least for enrollment and retention, the statistics are very interesting.

As far as whether it is good or not, doing both b/m schooling and distance learning, I do prefer distance learning, but from the students I've spoken to, the path is not like capella/uop/walden/others. There is a greater emphasis on always staying in contact with your mentor, meeting at least once a weekend and traveling 4-6x a year to their main campus or on the east coast. So in the travel commitment, there are a few differences.

I do agree with therapist4change on every single point raised with regards to considerations raised, but also in addition to that is funding too. But to clarify on my experience of what looks good in the field, it isn't much. Really, even Professional Schools are not viewed positively by some. I actually think for the people that do graduate, they are devoting the same (or more time) toward their doctorate vs. any other commitments. In 4 years, which is a bit amazing

If I do get past the first round, I'll keep everyone posted to see how the program and curriculum is. Surprisingly, it isn't the probation status that impedes me, it is the research funding and the fact that the only assistanceship offered at the school is one scholarship relating to womens rights. And while I am open to women's right, it's not the scope of my research...

Amazingly, the school does look a lot better than the others imho

 

[KayJay85]

During the sessions, it was indicated that it wasn't the program that was the cause of the probation status. It was the length of time, which statistically is far greater than any other program. Period. Some students are spending upward 10 years to complete a doctoral program is insane.

If I do get past the first round, I'll keep everyone posted to see how the program and curriculum is. Surprisingly, it isn't the probation status that impedes me, it is the research funding and the fact that the only assistanceship offered at the school is one scholarship relating to womens rights. And while I am open to women's right, it's not the scope of my research...

Amazingly, the school does look a lot better than the others imho

HUH?!

10 years to completion, on probation, lack of funding, lack of fit.... and it looks better than other options?

 

[erg923]

How is ten years to complete the doctorate not the programs responsibility? In my ph.d program, if you don't finish in 7 years, you're out. You're done. This is made clear from the beggining that this is simply not allowed to happen.

What are the others you're comparing it to? Capella? Come on, man...

 

[Phipps]

How is ten years to complete the doctorate not the programs responsibility? In my ph.d program, if you don't finish in 7 years, you're out. You're done. This is made clear from the beggining that this is simply not allowed to happen.

What are the others you're comparing it to? Capella? Come on, man...

As one of the critics or one who is conflicted about Fielding in the sense that (as a non-traditional student, i.e., age, language of origin, career changer) I find it attractive but see so many red flags as voiced in several postings, I have to say that the probation status as well as the horrendous amount of $$ it costs, low funding, etc. hinder me to apply BUT if I see Ph.D.'s in Clinical Psychology (Fielding graduates) who are licensed and f.i. work in a Psychiatry Department of a well-respected U (UMMC), I get weak in no time and feel compelled to apply. It's possible to prevail. My GRE scores are low since I got my ed in a foreign country, moved here late in life, am older, etc....a lot of odds against me. I did present at APA, will present a paper at an APA Div. meeting this spring, have a pretty good M.S. GPA (Psych), work as GA, etc. but still all that doesn't help my low GRE scores. So, what did I do?? Applied to Psy.D. programs instead of Ph.D. even though I am really interested in conducting research.
I have a lot to offer except for a brilliant math score. My bad. So, Fielding may look good but then,again, see above...
My two sense. Back to you

 

[erg923]

Well, obviously, one needs to look at what MOST fielding grads are doing 5 years after the degree. Finding one enormously successful grad (who happens to have your dream job) can not necessarily be construed as reflective of the program. Its ONE person. Its not a trend. It might have nothing to do with the program, right? How many other variables are you not thinking about when you are attributing the cause of this person's vast success to Fielding? Obviously, quite a few.

There are plenty of good threads on here regarding what do to in order to strengthen ones CV for ph.d admittance. Do a search. Working for a couple of years as a Research Assistant in a productive lab is probably the most common job that people do between undergrad and grad. Going to a subpar program that will literary put you 180k in debt and take you 8, 9, or 10 years to complete is not a wise option.

 

[Phipps]

Well, obviously, one needs to look at what MOST fielding grads are doing 5 years after the degree. Finding one enormously successful grad (who happens to have your dream job) can not necessarily be construed as reflective of the program. Its ONE person. Its not a trend. It might have nothing to do with the program, right? How many other variables are you not thinking about when you are attributing the cause of this person's vast success to Fielding? Obviously, quite a few.

There are plenty of good threads on here regarding what do to in order to strengthen ones CV for ph.d admittance. Do a search. Working for a couple of years as a Research Assistant in a productive lab is probably the most common job that people do between undergrad and grad. Going to a subpar program that will literary put you 180k in debt and take you 8, 9, or 10 years to complete is not a wise option.

Good point, erg923! ...probably not a representative example. It happens though. But the odds are slim, most likely.

 

[MNGradToBe12]

I completely agree. However, I also think we should point out that "nontraditional student," as mentioned in the post above yours, doesn't apply quite as well to clinical psychology students as it does undergraduates (or even to many other graduate/professional fields). There are many individuals in clinical doctoral programs who are older, have switched careers, have families, come from all ranges of ethnic/cultural/socioeconomic backgrounds, etc. While the average student is likely mid-20's and on their first "real" career, that generalization does a fairly horrible job of describing the doctoral population as a whole.

As a nontrad student myself, and particularly one approaching the grad school crossroad, I wonder how on earth ANYONE in this economic and housing climate is able to pick up and move halfway across the country? It seems to me that the deck is significantly stacked against us. And while I don't have an objection to overcoming such obstacles, it does require a great deal of fortitude to do.

 

[Phipps]

As a nontrad student myself, and particularly one approaching the grad school crossroad, I wonder how on earth ANYONE in this economic and housing climate is able to pick up and move halfway across the country? It seems to me that the deck is significantly stacked against us. And while I don't have an objection to overcoming such obstacles, it does require a great deal of fortitude to do.

Yep...I hear you. So, are you saying that you would not be opposed to apply to Fielding U, for instance?? I am trying to form an informed opinion about it, but have applied to traditional Psy.D. programs this year. Please share, if you feel up to it!!!

Ms. Phipps

 

[erg923]

Um...cost of moving cross country to a supported Ph.D program (tuition remission+stipend)=$2500-3000. Cost of attending fielding (or other online school name here)=$120,000-180,000

 

[O Gurl]

A useful thing to keep in mind when facing the barriers toward a PhD is that it is the highest degree possible in our chosen field. It is also a choice. There will be ton of sacrifices and hurdles. Everyone's priorities and obligations are different, and for some people, taking the pay cut for several years, relocating, etc. is simply not worth it. In that case, this route is simply not viable. However, what should NOT occur is an attempt to take a shortcut. Knowingly attending a program with horrible stats and an inflated price tag is setting yourself up for disappointment. Even if you get the degree (big if, as even attaining and completing an internship is a gamble with these programs), you may have made sacrifices along the way (APPIC vs. APA internship) that limit your career options. So you find yourself out of 8-10 years, in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, with limited prospects, and with a degree from a not-well-respected institution.

Admittance is only the FIRST hurdle, so if your GRE is your hold-up, invest in prep courses or a tutor and raise your score. If research is your hold-up, try to find and RA position. If GPA is your hold-up, pursue a master's first. Throwing in the towel at the first obstacle does NOT bode well for the rest of your graduate and professional career, which is filled with hurdles.

 

[Phipps]

Um...cost of moving cross country to a supported Ph.D program (tuition remission+stipend)=$2500-3000. Cost of attending fielding=$120,000-180,000

Have you thought of it that way?

Sure. BUT some 'older' folks who have to stay local for what reason ever can't do that; I agree though that Fielding U has almost 0% of stipends, tuition remission, funding, etc. but for some, it still is a dilemma and F seems to offer at least an option to fulfill one's aspirations. Now...I realize that you may just really mad at this last sentence...you may

 

[Phipps]

A useful thing to keep in mind when facing the barriers toward a PhD is that it is the highest degree possible in our chosen field. It is also a choice. There will be ton of sacrifices and hurdles. Everyone's priorities and obligations are different, and for some people, taking the pay cut for several years, relocating, etc. is simply not worth it. In that case, this route is simply not viable. However, what should NOT occur is an attempt to take a shortcut. Knowingly attending a program with horrible stats and an inflated price tag is setting yourself up for disappointment. Even if you get the degree (big if, as even attaining and completing an internship is a gamble with these programs), you may have made sacrifices along the way (APPIC vs. APA internship) that limit your career options. So you find yourself out of 8-10 years, in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, with limited prospects, and with a degree from a not-well-respected institution.

Admittance is only the FIRST hurdle, so if your GRE is your holdup, invest in prep courses or a tutor and raise your score. If research is your hold-up, try to find and RA position. If GPA is your hold-up, pursue a master's first. Throwing in the towel at the first obstacle does NOT bode well for the rest of your graduate and professional career, which is filled with hurdles.

Well put, O gurl. I want to make sure that if, in a moment of despair, I attempt to apply to Fielding, to post here so that people can do a reality check...

 

[erg923]

Sure. BUT some 'older' folks who have to stay local for what reason ever can't do that; I agree though that Fielding U has almost 0% of stipends, tuition remission, funding, etc. but for some, it still is a dilemma and F seems to offer at least an option to fulfill one's aspirations. Now...I realize that you may just really mad at this last sentence...you may

Mad? No. But I certainly cant support the idea that a school should cater to those who aren't willing, or who aren't currently able, to put forth the same time, energy and effort (ie., sacrifice) into the Ph.D that the rest of us are. This view that people have that they are entitled to pursue higher education is aggravating. I want to fullfill MY dreams, EVEN if the way in which that is accomplished denigrates the degree and is generally bad for the profession seems kinda selfish and shortsighted to me. Shoot the profession you want to be a part of in the foot? Doesn't make sense...

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Mad? No. But I certainly cant support the idea that a school should cater to those who aren't willing, or who aren't currently able, to put forth the same time, energy and effort (ie., sacrifice) into the Ph.D that the rest of us are. This view that people have that they are entitled to pursue higher education is aggravating. I want to fullfill MY dreams, EVEN if the way in which that is accomplished denigrates the degree and is generally bad for the profession seems kinda selfish and shortsighted to me. Shoot the profession you want to be a part of in the foot? Doesn't make sense...

I agree to a large extent. If an individual wanted to change careers and become a physician, for example, he or she would expect to make a very significant series of sacrifices that would include relocation, very long hours (at the med school and residency levels), and a host of others. These same sacrifices are generally required by those aspiring toward obtaining their doctorate in clinical psychology, and as such should also be expected if pursuing that career path.

 

[MNGradToBe12]

Yep...I hear you. So, are you saying that you would not be opposed to apply to Fielding U, for instance?? I am trying to form an informed opinion about it, but have applied to traditional Psy.D. programs this year. Please share, if you feel up to it!!!

Ms. Phipps

Well, I'll explain my situation here. I live in an area with no graduate psychology programs. The nearest one is in Minneapolis at the U of M. There is also St. Thomas University, and Argosy. I am currently employed full-time and own a home in a still-depressed market. My options for graduate school are to settle for an unemployable online Masters/Doctorate, go to Argosy and pay a small fortune and commute daily, or apply to programs around the country and possibly have to move by myself and continue to support myself and pay on my mortgage, which will be difficult but not impossible. These options are all unappealing, but when I decided to go back to school and pursue this field, I knew I was in it for better or worse.

As an aside, no I would not consider Fielding, and I am leery of Argosy, because if my degree is of little esteem in the real world, and I cannot find an appropriate internship that will lead to a job, what have I really accomplished? Racking up a quarter mil of debt and no job (or one that doesn't pay proportionate to my debt) prospects? No thanks. What I will say is this thread, and others in this forum have both informed and terrified me simultaneously.

Of course, my credentials will be weaker than what I'm seeing from people on this board. I'll have to rely on a very good undergrad GPA (from fake online undergrad school-Walden) and hopefully solid GRE scores. I have no research experience (due to going to fake online school) and now am realizing I will have to overcome that weakness with volunteer work in my community, which I am fine with. I just hope it builds as strong a case as I can muster, or I'm up a creek with no paddle and a hole in the canoe.

 

[erg923]

Well, I'll explain my situation here. I live in an area with no graduate psychology programs. The nearest one is in Minneapolis at the U of M. There is also St. Thomas University, and Argosy. I am currently employed full-time and own a home in a still-depressed market. My options for graduate school are to settle for an unemployable online Masters/Doctorate, go to Argosy and pay a small fortune and commute daily, or apply to programs around the country and possibly have to move by myself and continue to support myself and pay on my mortgage, which will be difficult but not impossible. These options are all unappealing, but when I decided to go back to school and pursue this field, I knew I was in it for better or worse.

As an aside, no I would not consider Fielding, and I am leery of Argosy, because if my degree is of little esteem in the real world, and I cannot find an appropriate internship that will lead to a job, what have I really accomplished? Racking up a quarter mil of debt and no job (or one that doesn't pay proportionate to my debt) prospects? No thanks. What I will say is this thread, and others in this forum have both informed and terrified me simultaneously.

Of course, my credentials will be weaker than what I'm seeing from people on this board. I'll have to rely on a very good undergrad GPA (from fake online undergrad school-Walden) and hopefully solid GRE scores. I have no research experience (due to going to fake online school) and now am realizing I will have to overcome that weakness with volunteer work in my community, which I am fine with. I just hope it builds as strong a case as I can muster, or I'm up a creek with no paddle and a hole in the canoe.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but until you have research experience, you will NOT be competitive for Ph.D. programs in clinical or counseling psychology. Period. Lack of research experience is not something you can "make up" with volunteer clinical work. Its not the same thing and its not developing the same skills sets. Although I'm sure you could probably gain admittance to psy.d programs like Argosy with little, or possibly no research experience, not many people would advocate that route.

I think that once one is out in the real world (outside academic affiliated institutions) an Argosy degree isn't that big of a deal...its GETTING there with the Argosy degree (and the accompanying debt) thats the challenge. Match rates for quality predoc internships are generally much poorer than the national average at Argosy, and it will overall be a drag (most likely) on acquiring quality post-docs and the like. Not only is quality of some of the Argosy type programs somewhat questionable, the current pay scale for psychologists simply does not justify the cost of these kind of programs...for the average person at least. I always tell people to weigh carefully whether this is really the career one wants to pursue.

If you are interested in mental health service deliver, thats fine. But know what you;re getting into (realistic earning potentials and required/common sacrifices).

 

[Phipps]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but until you have research experience, you will NOT be competitive for Ph.D. programs in clinical or counseling psychology. Period. Lack of research experience is not something you can "make up" with volunteer clinical work. Its not the same thing and its not giving developing the same skills sets. Although I'm sure you could probably gain admittance to psy.d programs like Argosy with little, or possibly no research experience, not many people would advocate that route. I think that once one is out in the real world (outside academic affiliated institutions) an Argosy degree isn't that a big deal...its GETTING there with the Argosy degree (and the accompanying debt) thats the challenge. Match rates for quality predoc internships are generally much poorer than the national average at Argosy and it will overall be a drag (most likely) on acquiring quality post-docs and the like. Not only is quality of some of the Argosy type programs somewhat questionable, the current pay scale for psychologists simply does not justify the cost of these kind of programs...for the average person at least. I always tell people to weigh carefully whether this is really the career one wants to pursue.

If you are interested in mental health service deliver, thats fine. But know what you;re getting into ( realistic earning potentials and sacrifices).

Yep. I agree with erg923. I worked hard to get into a place at my school where I could work first in a lab, then write my thesis which was not required, than become a GA, than present a poster at APA, etc. and still- even with that, your GRE scores and undergrad GPA need to be stellar too, if you shoot for a Ph.D. program. I opted for Psy. D. programs for different reasons but decided not to look into Professional Schools (well, GWU...but that's still a part of a U). Has to be APA accredited too.

G'luck with your endeavor. You have to work very hard to get there. But nothing is impossible with determination and some luck.

 

[MNGradToBe12]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but until you have research experience, you will NOT be competitive for Ph.D. programs in clinical or counseling psychology. Period. Lack of research experience is not something you can "make up" with volunteer clinical work. Its not the same thing and its not developing the same skills sets. Although I'm sure you could probably gain admittance to psy.d programs like Argosy with little, or possibly no research experience, not many people would advocate that route.

I think that once one is out in the real world (outside academic affiliated institutions) an Argosy degree isn't that big of a deal...its GETTING there with the Argosy degree (and the accompanying debt) thats the challenge. Match rates for quality predoc internships are generally much poorer than the national average at Argosy, and it will overall be a drag (most likely) on acquiring quality post-docs and the like. Not only is quality of some of the Argosy type programs somewhat questionable, the current pay scale for psychologists simply does not justify the cost of these kind of programs...for the average person at least. I always tell people to weigh carefully whether this is really the career one wants to pursue.

If you are interested in mental health service deliver, thats fine. But know what you;re getting into (realistic earning potentials and required/common sacrifices).

Hence the likelihood of searching for a Master's program and then getting the research experience necessary to improve on a doctoral application down the road. Bottom line, I've come too far to turn back.

Baby steps, y'know?

 

[psyman]

Regarding online clinical psychology programs, isn't there something to be said for getting to class 2, 3, 4 times per week for hours of class where you sit during lectures and labs with your cohort?

My girlfriend is doing an online master's in business at a state school and let me tell you, her experience and mine (in my traditional PsyD program) are completely different. She just listens to some weekly lectures on her computer and emails assignments. Her books are even snail mailed to her. She doesn't know anyone in her program and has no relationships with any professors.

And the whole "but I'm married with children argument" annoys me. Life events occur which prevent people from doing many things they'd LIKE to do. Illness of self or loved one, lose a job, get divorced, have to move for some reason...there are all kinds of reasons someone may not be able to complete a degree. At some point...life happens.

If you can't commit enough time to go to class then you'd don't have enough time for a doctorate. IMHO.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

If you can't commit enough time to go to class then you'd don't have enough time for a doctorate. IMHO.

The challenging thing, which I think is often overlooked by a lot of prospective applicants, is that classes make up maybe 30% of your time during the week. The rest of the time is spent doing research, meeting, studying, seeing pts, etc.

 

[KayJay85]

...the whole "but I'm married with children argument" annoys me. Life events occur which prevent people from doing many things they'd LIKE to do. Illness of self or loved one, lose a job, get divorced, have to move for some reason...there are all kinds of reasons someone may not be able to complete a degree. At some point...life happens.

If you can't commit enough time to go to class then you'd don't have enough time for a doctorate. IMHO.

+1

It kinda goes back to the sense of entitlement that psych hopefuls seem to have. No advanced degree (whether law, medicine, whatever) is without sacrifice. If it were easy, everyone would have letters of some sort behind their name.

 

[MNGradToBe12]

+1

It kinda goes back to the sense of entitlement that psych hopefuls seem to have. No advanced degree (whether law, medicine, whatever) is without sacrifice. If it were easy, everyone would have letters of some sort behind their name.

I certainly wouldn't lump that entire group together as being that clueless. Some people understand the sacrifices necessary to reach the summit so to speak. And frankly, were it easy to get an advanced psych degree, the level of quackery would be through the roof. That's a frightening thought.

 

[erg923]

I certainly wouldn't lump that entire group together as being that clueless. Some people understand the sacrifices necessary to reach the summit so to speak. And frankly, were it easy to get an advanced psych degree, the level of quackery would be through the roof. That's a frightening thought.

Well, I think one of the reasons why training models are such a hot issue on here is because this profession IS filled with people who are little more than one or two steps above quackery. Many of us have commented and posted on here how scary and different the standards of care and practice are in non-academically affiliated settings. Its nice to get pumped full of empirical treatments/standards in grad school and in the affiliated clinics or med school, but its sometimes disheartening to see how readily it is thrown away and/or ignored in the county sector sector and CMH settings

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Well, I think one of the reasons why training models are such a hot issue on here is because this profession IS filled with people who are little more than one or two steps above quackery. Many of us have commented and posted on here how scary and different the standards of care and practice are in non-academically affiliated settings. Its nice to get pumped full of empirical treatments/standards in grad school and in the affiliated clinics or med school, but its sometimes disheartening to see how readily it is thrown away and/or ignored in the county sector sector and CMH settings

If you want to be completely mortified, do a search for providers on www.PsychologyToday.com.

 

[Phipps]

If you want to be completely mortified, do a search for providers on www.PsychologyToday.com.

..and what's interesting to me is that often, Argosy graduates for instance would not mention the name on their web-pages under the "About Me" section but
American School of Professional Psychology

...it makes me wonder as to WHY?? DO they think it sounds better, do they feel ashamed/inferior...??

 

[erg923]

I interviewed at an FMC for predoc internship this year where there was an Argosy grad. She said her cohort fought hard to keep "Argosy" off their diploma since when her cohort matriculated it was still the Illinois School of Professional Psychology. Makes sense to me...

 

[Phipps]

I interviewed at an FMC for predoc internship this year where there was an Argosy grad. She said her cohort fought hard to keep "Argosy" of their diploma since when her cohort matriculated it was still the Illinois School of Professional Psychology. Makes sense to me...

...you mean 'off' as in not having the name Argosy on it?

...if I was to graduate from George Washington U with a Psy. D., why would I want to have "Professional Psychology (PsyD) Program" f.i. instead??

 

[erg923]

Yes. Because they know the reputation "Argosy" has within academic psychology. I think it was a wise choice...

George Washington was a general, a president,...an American hero. The university is solid and the medical center is well known.

Argosy...is a gambling boat on the Ohio river, at least where I'm from.

Now make the choice.

 

[Phipps]

Yes. Because they know the reputation "Argosy" has within academic psychology. I think it was a wise choice...

George Washington was a general, a president,...an American hero. The university is solid and the medical center is well known.

Argosy...is a gambling boat on the Ohio river, at least where I'm from.

Now make the choice.

fully agreed upon

 

[domineus]

HUH?!

10 years to completion, on probation, lack of funding, lack of fit.... and it looks better than other options?

if we are talking strictly in terms of distributed (online) format, oh goodness yes. Let's be real, most online programs, save from the grandiose let's meet during the term only 3x in the entire curriculum is terrible imho. It's not better than the b/m option, even I admit that, but strictly in terms of distributed format, it is better.

Personally, the main problem is that many of the degree seeking doctoral candidates are transitioning into the field with families that have this oho! I want to be a psychologist idea. Which for the type of demographic that represents, yes the school looks very prospective. But as I said, I will see how it goes.

How is ten years to complete the doctorate not the programs responsibility? In my ph.d program, if you don't finish in 7 years, you're out. You're done. This is made clear from the beggining that this is simply not allowed to happen.

What are the others you're comparing it to? Capella? Come on, man...

Never said it wasn't the program at fault. What was indicated to me was that many students like the program that much. To be honest, looking at the program, full time it should take 3 and a half to 5 years to complete (and that's being generous).

As for comparison see above and the topic title we're posting Online programs

A useful thing to keep in mind when facing the barriers toward a PhD is that it is the highest degree possible in our chosen field. It is also a choice. There will be ton of sacrifices and hurdles. Everyone's priorities and obligations are different, and for some people, taking the pay cut for several years, relocating, etc. is simply not worth it. In that case, this route is simply not viable. However, what should NOT occur is an attempt to take a shortcut. Knowingly attending a program with horrible stats and an inflated price tag is setting yourself up for disappointment. Even if you get the degree (big if, as even attaining and completing an internship is a gamble with these programs), you may have made sacrifices along the way (APPIC vs. APA internship) that limit your career options. So you find yourself out of 8-10 years, in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, with limited prospects, and with a degree from a not-well-respected institution.

Admittance is only the FIRST hurdle, so if your GRE is your hold-up, invest in prep courses or a tutor and raise your score. If research is your hold-up, try to find and RA position. If GPA is your hold-up, pursue a master's first. Throwing in the towel at the first obstacle does NOT bode well for the rest of your graduate and professional career, which is filled with hurdles.

thanks for the topic veer into dollars and sense of the discussion - definitely needed. But then with all of that said, when a person in a family (married with children) want to transition into a doctorate, what do you suggest

this so isn't my story lmao trust lol

Although it's an interesting similarity in at least a nursing field. There are a variety of options for lpn's to go to BSN (and MSN) via an online format using a similar model that Fielding argues. The question then becomes, is this a future move for many health related fields?

Regarding online clinical psychology programs, isn't there something to be said for getting to class 2, 3, 4 times per week for hours of class where you sit during lectures and labs with your cohort?

My girlfriend is doing an online master's in business at a state school and let me tell you, her experience and mine (in my traditional PsyD program) are completely different. She just listens to some weekly lectures on her computer and emails assignments. Her books are even snail mailed to her. She doesn't know anyone in her program and has no relationships with any professors.

That's been my experience in online instruction. One thing I can say about fielding, speaking to you know the students without the marriage and such, mostly, they are researching and in constant contact with their groups on a weekly basis. So going back to the entire face time/research/interaction thing, from the students I've spoken to, its similar. I'm not as ignorant to say its the same, because being frank, it's not at all.

for once an enlightening discussion that hasn't turned into flames. Eh well back to research

 

[O Gurl]

thanks for the topic veer into dollars and sense of the discussion - definitely needed. But then with all of that said, when a person in a family (married with children) want to transition into a doctorate, what do you suggest

I would suggest taking the established route to make sure your training and job prospects will be solid or not doing it. Seriously. We all have wants and dreams and goals... some attainable and some not so much. That does not mean that taking shortcuts is the answer. You will not do your family any favors by investing years and tons of money into a program that may result in a degree and definitely won't result in many opportunities for viable, secure employment. Where you go to school matters.. even in private practice. The mental health world is pretty small. You will have to rely on solid referral sources (schools, physicians, attorneys, etc. depending on your niche). Having a degree from an online program probably won't help win you referrals over people with degrees from more well-respected institutions and the connections that come with it. I'm not well versed on internship placements for Fielding students but I suspect many end up with positions at non-accredited CMH centers. Not a whole lot of opportunities there to network. And having a degree from an online program is almost a guaranteed barrier to ever working for many of the top employers for psychologists. I'm not trying to be a joykill. I am trying to give you the best and most honest advice I can. Wanting a doctorate does not yield one and there are many other options for mental health service delivery such as being a licensed therapist, clinical social worker, research coordinator, case management, etc.

Although it's an interesting similarity in at least a nursing field. There are a variety of options for lpn's to go to BSN (and MSN) via an online format using a similar model that Fielding argues. The question then becomes, is this a future move for many health related fields?

I hope not.

 

[KayJay85]

..and what's interesting to me is that often, Argosy graduates for instance would not mention the name on their web-pages under the "About Me" section but
American School of Professional Psychology

...it makes me wonder as to WHY?? DO they think it sounds better, do they feel ashamed/inferior...??

Yikes!

I just did a search for a couple of major cities in CA... nearly every single PsyD was from a professional school. And yes, I saw American School of Professional Psychology many times. I would have had no idea what that was.

 

[Phipps]

Yikes!

I just did a search for a couple of major cities in CA... nearly every single PsyD was from a professional school. And yes, I saw American School of Professional Psychology many times. I would have had no idea what that was.

Yep. Me neither. So, I once googled American School...and that's how I found out. American School of Professional Psych sounds pretty nice, sort of, in comparison to Argosy.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Yep. Me neither. So, I once googled American School...and that's how I found out. American School of Professional Psych sounds pretty nice, sort of, in comparison to Argosy.

I'd also never realized the two were synonymous. It definitely says something fairly significant about a program when students are actively attempting to hide its name from those looking into it.

When doing a search in my current area and the area in which I hope to end up, I came across only a couple (literally) doctoral-level providers. And of those I found, only a select few were licensed at the psychologist level; the remainder were licensed as LPCs, which caused me to wonder in what field these people had received their Ph.D. (none mentioned it on their profiles).

 

[busybusybusy]

I'd also never realized the two were synonymous. It definitely says something fairly significant about a program when students are actively attempting to hide its name from those looking into it.

When doing a search in my current area and the area in which I hope to end up, I came across only a couple (literally) doctoral-level providers. And of those I found, only a select few were licensed at the psychologist level; the remainder were licensed as LPCs, which caused me to wonder in what field these people had received their Ph.D. (none mentioned it on their profiles).

It could depend on what their PhD was in. I know in my area if you get your PhD in Marraige and Family Therapy you can get licensed as an MFT or a LPC, I *think* the LPC pay is higher.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

It could depend on what their PhD was in. I know in my area if you get your PhD in Marraige and Family Therapy you can get licensed as an MFT or a LPC, I *think* the LPC pay is higher.

I'd hoped that many had obtained their Ph.D. in some type of related field (of which I would definitely consider MFT to be one) from a credible program, but part of me wondered if they were perhaps from some type of fly-by-night, ridiculously-unrigorous programs completed solely for the purpose of adding the "Dr." title to increase patient influx.

 

[codetype4/9]

Argosy...is a gambling boat on the Ohio river, at least where I'm from. QUOTE]

This actually caused me to laugh out loud at my desk

 

[MNGradToBe12]

Argosy...is a gambling boat on the Ohio river, at least where I'm from.

Now make the choice.

That all depends on how cheap the booze is.