Online Psy.D - Why not?

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I would actually agree with this assertion.

Program that are not peer viewed and accredited by the governing body of this profession should not exist, I agree. I can think of no other doctoral-level health service profession where this scenario exists. Perhaps you would like to explain why this SHOULD be allowed to exist? I am interested in your thoughts. Please go on. :)

Ok, I will reply later on this evening. Going out now to get some sun.

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So much trust in government authority? Is this a democrat speaking? Do they have any of those in CA? lol
 
5 comments.

1.Selection bias. Look at your geography.
2. Source bias (psychology today)
3. Overestimation of base rates
4. Therapists, do not equal "psychologist"
5. a.)I sleep well at night. b.) I am very handsome to look at.

Hey, do you like good-looking, in-shape older women? ;) Okay, gotta go and get that sun now to keep my mind off of the idea of that pretty face of yours. ;)
 
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I generally dislike ALL people from CA other than my wife.
 
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Lol. She must be a lucky woman...Can I send you a private message?

Yes, I sent you one that summarize my (and others) points that you seem so resistant to...for reasons yet unknown.
 
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But erg, my overall point is that the free-market promotes the idea of freedom/choice over any real standards. There is no such thing as a free market-society that has strict regulation. When this is taken to the extreme, which it is in the USA to some level, choice is important not standards. The idea is then that the best companies, the best doctors, will win out in this open competition, as long as the govt doesn't interupt this natural process. This is how you get education that is for-profit, how you get healthcare that is for profit, and how people can go to such schools and still get licensed.

To be honest, I'm lost. I am neither a libertarian nor an liberal democrat..which is often pro gov regs and programs. I am only guided by one overlord.

Said overlord teaches me that there are clear rights and wrongs, that one is innately tempted towards flawed actions (sin), and that you help a brother eat and then you teach him to fish. Compassion...with reasonable limits. None of this is exceptional, nor is it really that complicated.

The point is, I believe that the state has a right and a duty to protect the populous within reason and when possible. However, that effort does not always succeed, its is filled with loopholes that will not/cannot apply not All situations, I may not always agree with the those regulations (i.e, they are fallible), and I always have the OPTION to circumvent them. The OP can provide therapy if she so chooses, she just cant choose to be a licensed psychologist. Similarly, I can choose not to buy into certain aspect of the public school system...thus I choose to send my kids to Catholic schools. The consequences being I now have to pay for my child's edu, rather than get it for free.
 
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Steamy....this thread has it ALL!
 
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What is the definition of a diploma mill according to those of you on this thread? What do most of you have against Argosy and Alliant? Both schools have APA accredited programs. A lot of the psychologists that I saw on Psychology today in San Diego earned their degrees from these two schools.

For those who wanted to know, my GPA is 3.7. It could be better. It will be better.
 
Stay classy San Diego.
 
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I'm gonna do what I wanna do. My patients will be fine.

How will they be fine if you have not been properly trained? What happens when you get a suicidal patient and you have no idea how to properly assess or treat them? It sounds like now you're just trying to get a rise out of folks here. You are trying to take a backdoor into a profession where you will be responsible for your patient's lives. It's this kind of attitude that leads to malpractice.
 
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I think what is meant by diploma mill is actually 4 seperate but usually highly correlated things.

1) a. large class sizes that are incongruent with market demand/need and current internship availability. b. Large class sizes that prevent small class sizes and prevent one on one mentoring, guidance and oversight.

2. Programs that have admission standards and resultant admission statistics markedly below other traditional programs. That is, lower quality product.

3. Programs that cost more than could reasonably be justified given nationally modal earning potential. b. do not offer remission and support for students. This is usually do to lack of grant funding obtainment by program faculty.

4. Lack of didactic and scholarly rigor and productivity when compared to other programs. People aren't doing much science. This is probably a bad thing we you are supposedly earning a degree in how to apply a science to human suffering. :)
 
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I'd add to that list, Colleges/Universities that are not research institutions.
 
How will they be fine if you have not been properly trained? What happens when you get a suicidal patient and you have no idea how to properly assess or treat them?
...but you don't understand!! She only wants to do educational assessment...not deal with suicidal patients, nor train at a real program, nor complete an internship...fellowship, etc. You need to realize it isn't about the patients, it is about what is best for her! Concerns about training and patient welfare are not relevant, obviously. :rolleyes:
 
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I'd add to that list, Colleges/Universities that are not research institutions.

I not sure I agree. How much of research powerhouse is Xavier? Vassar? Bowden, etc. Nobody would label those places as such.
 
I'm gonna do what I wanna do. My patients will be fine.

I picture a surgeon saying this, a lit cigarette hanging from their mouth mid-operation.

Really, this thread is amazingly entertaining despite how sad it is.
 
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I not sure I agree. How much of research powerhouse is Xavier? Vassar? Bowden, etc. Nobody would label those places as such.

I just think that that the legitimacy of a post-secondary institution is largely tied to the faculty doing research and having their work scrutinized and peer-reviewed. I'd question an institution with a faculty that doesn't publish work.

I think that we are partly blaming the wrong thing. Yes, Psychology is an applied field, so to suggest that you don't need in-person training, and some level of of mentoring and guidance, is pretty ridicilous. But deep down the discussion is much more nuanced.

It is about:
1. Accredited and Unaccredited programs. (Who should accredit programs? Should some of the currently accredited programs have accreditation? Theoretically, could non-accredited instutitions provide solid programs? Is the importance not the University/College that provides the education, (has good reputation) and provides a solid program, or is it actually accreditation that should be important?
2. Private vs Public institutions (This part always has some relevance. Can a State College ever really lack legitimacy/accountability? Do people generally put up with public institutions that don't actually provide a real education? Can public institutions charge crazy tuition rates? Are private schools much less accountable?
3. Brick and mortar vs Online/distance (Is online/distance a problem in education in general or simply because Psychology is an applied field? Well, Harvard through their Extension school offers degrees that are 90% online. or is there discrimination simply because something is online? Can a mostly online education, even in psychology, be valid if it is provided by reputable schools that are publically funded and research institutions?
 
pretty sure they covered this topic in a king of the hill episode.....
 
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Again, what do you all have against Argosy and Alliant? Most of the Psy.D profile's on Psychology Today graduated from those schools.
 
How will they be fine if you have not been properly trained? What happens when you get a suicidal patient and you have no idea how to properly assess or treat them? It sounds like now you're just trying to get a rise out of folks here. You are trying to take a backdoor into a profession where you will be responsible for your patient's lives. It's this kind of attitude that leads to malpractice.

There is always post-doc training, isn't there? Of course I care about patients and I want to be the best psychologist that I can be, but at this juncture in my life, I'm not about to spend 6 years to get there before I am even allowed to practice! Sorry, but I'm not.
 
Mods. can we close this, please?

lhsalover. See my post about diploma mills and see how many of these criteria the typical Argosy campus fulfills.

In regards to your attitude...you wont make it in this profession. You want a degree but not the work that is required to get it. That attitude will show in your work product.
 
Postdoc training is not meant to make up for shoddy doctoral training. You will not be competitive for any structured postdoc that would provide you with high-quality training. So you will be stuck trying to find someone to "supervise" your postdoc hours. Do you really think that a high-quality professional who could offer you good supervision is going to risk their license on someone from an online school? Learning from a poorly trained supervisor is not going to make up for egregious skill deficits.

If you are not willing to put in the work and the time, then you should not be a psychologist. You are not entitled to a degree just because you want one if you are not capable of this. You want to call yourself a psychologist, but your training at an online program will be inferior to most Master's programs. Simple as that. For the work you are willing to put into it, you would be better off attending a reputable Master's program and at least getting quality training to function at that level.
 
Mods. can we close this, please?

lhsalover. See my post about diploma mills and see how many of these criteria the typical Argosy campus fulfills.

In regards to your attitude...you wont make it in this profession. You want a degree but not the work that is required to get it. That attitude will show in your work product.

If the Mods close this, I will still message you privately. ;)

You haven't answered about post-doc training? What is wrong with me going the Cal Southern route and getting a significant amount of post-doc training after I am licensed and working in the field?
 
Uh...If you actually are asking why can't I just get a doctorate and do the pesky training and learning later, then I won't even dignify that with a response.
 
Man, this is some kind of Memorial Day Weekend thread...all 220+ posts of it...trying to convince someone of not going to the darkside, no less.

5 comments.

1. Selection bias. Look at your geography.
2. Source bias (psychology today)
3. Overestimation of base rates
4. Therapists, do not equal "psychologist"
5. a.)I sleep well at night. b.) I am very handsome to look at.

Psychology Today is not a peer-reviewed scientific journal. It is pop-culture, like People magazine, and not a reliable source of scientific news. It should never guide anyone's major decision-making process. Sorry.

Hey, do you like good-looking, in-shape older women? Okay, gotta go and get that sun now to keep my mind off of the idea of that pretty face of yours.

Very cheeky, lhasalover...particularly because you do not know exactly cute erg really is...nor do I unfortunately.

I am also an older, good-looking, in-shape woman...but not a Cougar...strictly Cheetah. And a non-traditional doctoral student (about 8 years younger than you) who believed clinical psychology was my God-given career. I had to figure out the hard way that there were no shortcuts to a specific careerpath that I desired. SO it took me about 10+ years to make-up for partying too much as an undergrad (by earning a masters and dedicating many years to medical research), concurrently 5+ years to gain wisdom and maturity (by becoming a parent & caring partner, most appreciatively personally), and 2+ years of application process to secure the best option out there for me - most of those years were spent working full-time AND being a caregiver...and I am now in my 6th year/going on internship this year...so I hear ya loud and clear when anyone says life does not get any easier..nor does our career paths as we get older. The hardest pill to swallow was an ounce of realism from one of my brothers (who is a successful criminal attorney) so said "You're going to have to give up your goal of being a psychologist if you don't get acceptance to a program a third time around because you're being delusional." (WTF Bro?!) and - thankfully, I got in off a waitlist my 2nd time applying. (I applied to funded and nonfunded PhD/PsyD programs in ONE main geographical location...all APA approved.) Don't be delusional about this profession.

I picture a surgeon saying this, a lit cigarette hanging from their mouth mid-operation.

Really, this thread is amazingly entertaining despie how sad it is.


This is funny to me. Primarily because my Dad was a surgeon who smoked...but he participated in and was supported by the AMA so that taught me to respect and obey those laws that govern, and there was no operating while smoking. Ha.

There is always post-doc training, isn't there? Of course I care about patients and I want to be the best psychologist that I can be, but at this juncture in my life, I'm not about to spend 6 years to get there before I am even allowed to practice! Sorry, but I'm not.

Ihasalover, if you are going to be this rigid and not put in the time to do the work necessary to be COMPETENT practitioner, then consider Plan B IMO.

Have you seen the WAIS? What is one of the main reasons we have professional/ethical standards? And no, it is not to ride at bare-minimum - that is scored low (MODS - I will edit out specific references soon)...if you want to ride along at bare minimum, you can become a life coach already with whatever skills and experiences you have up until this point. I could too, for that matter, but choose not to for many reasons. But patient safety motivates me...Hippocratic Oath maybe. If you want to practice therapy on school-age kids WITHOUT going to an APA-approved program and following all the rigors involved by opting to take the "easy road” (i.e. online doctorate in clinical/counseling/school psych or something that is State-approved to represent yourself as one) to do what you love...and may be good at, I will not support you working with any children especially to do therapy. I know that it could be potentially as damning as the presenting problem for which they sought therapy if you do not take YEARS to understand the REAL relationship between a clinical psychologist and his/her clients/patients (and I'm purposely excluding Counseling and School folks because I can only speak for my own degree). Why would you want to open a crackpot practice…and to fool their parents & make cash from faulty school systems? If crackpot practices are your game, BE a life couch to adults then.

Many of us work and train in medical settings, where the medical model is practiced. The medical model requires professional and ethical standards, and when you get in the business of you using your interpersonal skills as an intervention, then it is important for us to adhere to similar professional and ethical standards. State/Federal laws sometimes operate at minimums...just think of FDA regulations. This thread has so many posts because everyone hopes you will not be part of the problem that perpetuates poor training models. If you decide against the program you will not be part of the problem, but moving towards being part of the solution (once you get on the otherside to see all that you would've missed).
 
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Again, what do you all have against Argosy and Alliant? Most of the Psy.D profile's on Psychology Today graduated from those schools.

Okay, I'll bite...

Of COURSE most of the PsyD profiles there graduated from those programs. They churn out a ridiculous amount of graduates. Plus, it's not like Psychology Today is a highly exclusive database that not just anyone can advertise their practice on.

But at least Alliant and Argosy require internships. Their students tend not to get them, but they do at least require them.

pretty sure they covered this topic in a king of the hill episode.....

I TOTALLY thought of that King of the Hill episode while reading this thread, too!

Seriously, this program is lowering the bar even further than it had already been lowered. Why don't we just skip the downslide and just make a one year online PsyD program?
 
Very cheeky, lhasalover...particularly because you do not know exactly cute erg really is...nor do I unfortunately

Ah...you want him, don't you?...LOL.

I am also an older, good-looking, in-shape woman...but not a Cougar...strictly Cheetah. And a non-traditional doctoral student (about 8 years younger than you)

Who cares, Cheetah?

Have you seen the WAIS?

Of course I've seen the WAIS. I regularly give, score and interpret the WAIS.

"Crackpot practice" as said by Cheetahgirl. I'm laughing my bum off!
 
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Okay, I'll bite...

Of COURSE most of the PsyD profiles there graduated from those programs. They churn out a ridiculous amount of graduates. Plus, it's not like Psychology Today is a highly exclusive database that not just anyone can advertise their practice on.

But at least Alliant and Argosy require internships. Their students tend not to get them, but they do at least require them.

Okay, but these practitioners are happy and they have successful practices. They are allowed to practice by the state irregardless of what YOU or anyone on this board thinks. Do you get my point?
 
Oh, lhasalover, my first several posts were meant in jest (except the part about Psychology Today not being a scientific journal nor a reliable source of information for psychologists or psychologist-to-be). No one cares what anyone of us looks like or if we are fit (unless it's relevant to a post). And I don't secretly "want" any SDN members...although I can tell they are all hot by their postings. :cool:

Okay, well, if you've administered & scored the WAIS (whatever versions), you understand how some answers are more complex than others (hence get a higher score)...one of which being exactly related to the ethical/ professional standards for licensure....therefore, abstract to this topic here...we need our field to move in a direction of more stringent standards, not loose standards for whomever wants to 'buy' into this profession & finishing the licensing requirements in minimal time.

I'm not getting into a back & forth with you, lhasalover. I just reared my little virtual head to chime in and say "What the What?!" You've really got the group going here...and all because what you are preaching to the choir is what we all fear and loathe...a program that leans towards our profession being less than what it has been and should be. I was never a 4.0 kind-of-girl...except when I got into my doctoral program, but I am not a hypocrite either when I say I would NOT have admitted myself to a doctoral program before I earned the proper way there. No one is telling you that you can't be 55 years old and a graduate of doctoral program...only you are saying that you will not have it that way.
 
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Okay, but these practitioners are happy and they have successful practices. They are allowed to practice by the state irregardless of what YOU or anyone on this board thinks. Do you get my point?

Do you get the point that they are "dumbing our field down?'...hate to put in 8th grade language and all. Why start anew behind the 8 ball, so to speak? Just find a reputable program and put in the time to earn our various doctorate degrees properly or ask yourself this as you watch:



"Crackpot practice" as said by Cheetahgirl. I'm laughing my bum off!

Stick around, honey...I have plenty more. I'm proud to say I've earned my CheetahGirl spots, thank you...should change my name to CheetahWoman about now, but it seems so...je ne sais quoi...mature.
 
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I know people who practice alternative medicine (e.g. Reiki, Reflexology) and they are happy and they have successful practices. What they do is proven not to work, so they are essentially taking money from people with real health problems and then not treating them which is unethical as hell. But hey, they're happy and they have successful practices. See my point?
 
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Do you get the point that they are "dumbing our field down?'...hate to put in 8th grade language and all. Why start anew behind the 8 ball, so to speak? Just find a reputable program and put in the time to earn our various doctorate degrees properly or ask yourself this as you watch:



Oh god, this is wonderful. I like how it says all men in clinical psychology programs are married or homosexual; my informal survey through the interview process seems to confirm this.
 
Cheetah says:
Oh, lhasalover, my first several posts were meant in jest (except the part about Psychology Today not being a scientific journal nor a reliable source of information for psychologists or psychologist-to-be). No one cares what anyone of us looks like or if we are fit (unless it's relevant to a post). And I don't secretly "want" any SDN members...although I can tell they are all hot by their postings. :cool:

Who said that Psychology Today was a scientific journal?? I was only looking at the Psy.D profiles on there to see what universities they graduated from. [/QUOTE]
 
I know people who practice alternative medicine (e.g. Reiki, Reflexology) and they are happy and they have successful practices. What they do is proven not to work, so they are essentially taking money from people with real health problems and then not treating them which is unethical as hell. But hey, they're happy and they have successful practices. See my point?

There are people who get a lot of benefit out of alternative medicine. These type of attitudes is why I am no longer listening to most of you on this board.
 
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