About the ads

  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Opening 2nd Dental Office 2 Years Out of School

Discussion in 'Dental' started by Cold Front, May 30, 2012.

  1. This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors and sponsors. Thank you.
  1. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member

    SDN Members don't see this ad. (About Ads)
    I hope to share my experience in planing and opening my 2nd dental office, to help students/doctors understand the process.

    This would be a start-up. Shooting for Q4 of this year for the grand opening.

    Stay tuned.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2013
  2. MaceG1

    MaceG1

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    68
    Location:
    Vermont
    Status:
    Dental Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    This should be exciting! :love:
  3. TheClutch

    TheClutch

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2012
    Messages:
    171
    Status:
    Dental Student
    sooo stoked!
    love to hear about your first practice story how it started, grew, etc too!!
  4. dentalprodigy

    dentalprodigy Mr. Awesome

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    525
    Location:
    South Jersey, NJ
    Status:
    Dental Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Thank you for this thread! Eagerly waiting for updates

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk
  5. theartofzahn

    theartofzahn

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    62
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Yeah tell us everything you know. How much does your practice net? How much do you make a year?

    lol all jokes and dental trolling aside

    Looks like you got a sweet spot. I know that we never have pictures of stuff on SDN, but if you could make like one huge post with the construction in progress, the site, your plans. That would be sweet, I wouldn't want you to compromise your own business though. thanks in advance.
  6. TheToothsayer

    TheToothsayer

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    151
    Location:
    Virginia
    Great location and in MA too? Jackpot.
  7. Daurang

    Daurang

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,183
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Congrat! I'm sure it's not in MA...he simply too busy to update his location.
  8. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Yes, not in MA anymore. I'm in the midwest now. :)

    Demographics:

    Daily Average Traffic Count on the main street:
    • 60,000 vehicles

    Population:
    • 1 mile: 21,000
    • 3 miles: 124,000
    • 5 miles: 319,000

    Employees in Neighboring Businesses:
    • 1 mile: 6,300

    The above information was provided by the landlord.

    Next step: I will discuss Letter of Intent (LOI).
  9. NTr14

    NTr14

    Joined:
    May 31, 2012
    Messages:
    3
    Status:
    Dental Student
    Thanks for sharing. Looks like a great location indeed. Seems like a great idea to open near other successful (often nationwide) businesses, because you know they wouldn't open a store or restaurant in that location without doing their due diligence as well.
  10. youknowthedrill

    youknowthedrill

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2009
    Messages:
    526
    Status:
    Pre-Dental
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Was your first practice a start-up or did you purchase an existing practice? Was it also in a retail area or near other medical offices? All of the dentists in my town of 30,000 seem to be clustered together about 1 mile from the hospital. The town is growing in a different direction and the higher earning families are on the opposite side of town from the hospital. I think it is wise to open in a high traffic area rather than near a hospital. I can't wait to hear more about the process. Good luck!
  11. Ferneezy

    Ferneezy I don't always Go Blue, but when I do...

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    957
    Status:
    Pre-Dental
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    like a boss, cold front.

    solid daily traffic count should bring in loads of new patients. what about the dentist:population ratio?
  12. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    For the zipcode, it's 1:15-20,000.

    Average age of dentists in the zipcode: 56 (25 years older)

    In 5-10 years, the growth of population: 5%

    In 5-10 years, % of retiring dentists: 30% or more.

    # of schools and academies in the zipcode: 23
  13. Ferneezy

    Ferneezy I don't always Go Blue, but when I do...

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    957
    Status:
    Pre-Dental
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    seeing those demographics i think you're opening a mint, not a dental office. did you do your own analysis or pay an outside consultant to get the stats?

    also, i'm telling you under no circumstance should you pm me where you're located.


    /reverse psych
  14. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Mint?

    A lot of this information is public. A simple Google search can tell you how many dentists and schools are in the zipcode your office will be in (i.e. google search "90210 dentist"). A simple call to each dentist office can give you the whole history about the office; doctors' ages, insurances they accept, fee schedules, their hours of business, etc. You would be surprised how much information front desk staff give about the offices they work for.
  15. Ferneezy

    Ferneezy I don't always Go Blue, but when I do...

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    957
    Status:
    Pre-Dental
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    implying the demos are favorable to producing a successful practice in a short amount of time.

    interesting recon techniques too. i wouldn't immediately think to use social engineering for that kind of info on your competitors.
  16. NileBDS

    NileBDS SDNator Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,532
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Very cool. So happy for you ... aaaaaaaand, subscribed! :)
  17. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Thanks. Did you buy the practice yet?
  18. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Here is a typical Letter of Intent (LOI) for a dental office space from a landlord before you sign a lease.

    It will serve to initiate the process of negotiating with the landlord as a tenant, it's what I refer to as the landlord's "initial offer". In this case, it's a 5 yrs lease term, with free months of rent, allowance for construction, base rent, etc. The final lease contract will have the final terms and becomes a binding and legal contract.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
  19. NileBDS

    NileBDS SDNator Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,532
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member

    Yup. One month in. So much to learn!
  20. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    You will do well. Confidence will grow with time.

    After the LOI.


    The next step is to review the LOI and counter offer the terms on the LOI. This is a good time to also request the layout of the building from the landlord, and also a CAD file to design the dental office through architect/dental supplier. I will be using Henry Schein office designers for free to do the interior space (ie. where the ops will be, restrooms, reception, etc). At this time, it looks like the office will be next to T-Mobile, the landlord is talking to a national bank to move into the middle space of the building.

    [​IMG]
  21. Ferneezy

    Ferneezy I don't always Go Blue, but when I do...

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    957
    Status:
    Pre-Dental
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Cold, do you plan to split your clinical and administrative time between both locations?

    Will they both be open 5ish days per week? And if yes, will you hire associates to fill in since you can't be in two places at once, or will the business hours be filled in by hygiene in your absence?
  22. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Yes. The goal is to have 1 associate at each office, and I float between the 2 offices.

    Both offices will be open 5 days a week. There is a dental school in this city, so there is a plenty of supply of new grads and experienced associates on the local market.

    For now, each office will have 1 doctor, 1 hygienist, 1 front desk, 2 assistants. There is 1 lab tech who will do all in-house denture cases.
  23. corymartin2012

    corymartin2012 Collegiate Golfer

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2011
    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Texas
    Status:
    Pre-Health (Field Undecided)

    1. What is your projected split between both locations. I reckon two days in old one, three in the new? Or will it be based purely on the schedule of each?

    2. What kind of salary increase is projected from this addition? I reckon it won't be a HUGE increase but substantial enough. A percentage would be awesome lol.

    3. Of course its early, but I figure this is the hardest step in multiple locations, but ideas for 3rd or more?

    4. Could you say a run down on the situation with financing to open this second location? Did you have debt previous?

    Thanks ahead of time. Strongly looking to hear from you!
  24. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    What is your projected split between both locations. I reckon two days in old one, three in the new? Or will it be based purely on the schedule of each?
    The schedule for the new office would be identical as the first office. Being the head of the helm, I would work the first 90 days at the new office couple of days of the week, and cut back a day or 2 at the old office. After the first 90 days, I anticipate to work full time again at the first office. Both offices will also be open 1 Saturday a month.

    2. What kind of salary increase is projected from this addition? I reckon it won't be a HUGE increase but substantial enough. A percentage would be awesome lol.
    Both offices will have separate goals based on the location and surrounding community. So essentially, the additional value in the second office with a full time associate can be equal or better, considering the 2nd location will be in a more busier part of the town, and the office itself will slightly be bigger than the first.

    3. Of course its early, but I figure this is the hardest step in multiple locations, but ideas for 3rd or more?
    The main reason for the expansion is to reduce our tax bill. We also saw about 2,000 new patients in our first year, and feel we can hit the same number at the second location. If second office meets expectations, we would consider a 3rd location.

    4. Could you say a run down on the situation with financing to open this second location? Did you have debt previous?
    We financed our first office with Matsco (now owned by Wells Fargo). The new office will be paid for by first office, again as part of reducing our tax bill.
  25. HuyetKiem

    HuyetKiem Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2004
    Messages:
    813
    Location:
    Texas
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Nice. I'm so exciting for you :D:D
  26. theleatherwalle

    theleatherwalle

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2011
    Messages:
    307
    Status:
    Dental Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Quick question

    Are you renting these locations instead of buying them?

    Do you think there is any particular advantage in renting currently?
  27. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Renting.

    The big incentive to renting is getting a bargain price, specially in new buildings. Landlord rate tenants based on their credit risk. For example, national retailers like Starbucks, Hallmarks, T-Mobile, etc are given A+ rating, where dentists might get B+ (if a dentist has other locations he/she will be rated better, if not as good as national retailers). The local guy who wants to open a bakery shop or barbershop will be rated C. The higher your rating the more viable you are to the landlord, the better your can negotiate your rent. For example, for this new location, I negotiated my rent down from near $20 per sft asking price to $14 per sft with 4 months of free rent (64 months term) and 4 months free construction. Not all tenants get the same deal in the building, but based on how you negotiate your lease and your credit risk level to the landlord, who also needs to secure his or her finances with his/her lender. The bank in turn can give the landlord a better rate on the loan to fund the entire project based on the tenants viability.
  28. RCT PC CRN

    RCT PC CRN RCT-PC-CRN

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    220
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Cold, just a thought. I don't see a term for option to renew in your LOI. Have you considered of having a term in your lease agreement for an option to renew at certain percentage increase?

    IMO, a good lease form tenant's precpective is to have initial lease term and two option to renew. E.g. 5 year + option 1 5 years + option 2 5 years. Even though if you don't have an option, most landlords will give you opportunity to sign additional years without outrageous increase in rent but why take a chance when you can have the option term to begin with.

    If you have already signed the lease it might be too late.
  29. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    There is a 5 years renewal option in the actual lease. Great point though. :thumbup:
  30. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    This was my final floor plan.

    Office will open in Spring with 2 doctors, 2 hygiene, 1 EFTA, 3 assistants, 2 Front Desk.

    We will start scheduling a month before open.

    [​IMG]
  31. Ferneezy

    Ferneezy I don't always Go Blue, but when I do...

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    957
    Status:
    Pre-Dental
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    that is a lot of chairs. that's a lot of staff with a start-up.

    how are you addressing the "patient comfort experience"? in-operatory TVs? something to watch/listen to in the waiting areas?








    pics?
  32. Lethstang

    Lethstang

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2009
    Messages:
    485
    Status:
    Dental Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    cities with dental schools are typically saturated. Id get confirmation on your dentist to pop ratio.

    If its true, why is it? Is it a new dental school? Do you fear the place will become saturated as it starts pumping out grads?
  33. Bobby Fischer

    Bobby Fischer

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2011
    Messages:
    483
    Thank you for doing this cold front, very informative as well as motivating.
  34. tooth knockn

    tooth knockn

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Messages:
    315
    Status:
    Pre-Dental


    I have a question , congratulations with your practices , hope all goes well.

    I was wondering if you started on your own or have had assistance from family .

    Just wondering .
  35. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Some of the staff are floating between the new office and my other office.

    All ops will be equipped with tv/monitors on the wall, playing NetFlix movies.
  36. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    I live and from this city. I know the demographics well, dentist to pop ratio helps people who don't know the areas they exploring well.
  37. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Financially? No. All alone.

    I had advise from other successful doctors, some who are on SDN, advise from local realtors, local dental suppliers, local city developers, local accountants, pretty much people you wouldn't think would advice you on opening an office.
  38. tooth knockn

    tooth knockn

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
    Messages:
    315
    Status:
    Pre-Dental
    Unbelievable , !!!!, but great. It nice to see an individual do all this independently , like yourself.

    I have always wondered if it is possible to do such thing after dental school.

    Was it difficult in getting loans, even with school loans ?


    In any way , congrats to you .

    This is kind of inspiring.

    Thanks for sharing.
  39. Bereno

    Bereno Smoking Monkey

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2011
    Messages:
    1,701
    Location:
    Farmington, CT
    Status:
    Dental Student
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    Nice. I am very curious to keep tabs on this as time goes on. :thumbup: :)
  40. Ferneezy

    Ferneezy I don't always Go Blue, but when I do...

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    957
    Status:
    Pre-Dental
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    gonna pull a silent cool and bump this for updates.
    Silent Cool likes this.
  41. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    [​IMG]
  42. Koalafied

    Koalafied Newtyρe‒ƒ │⅁‒ + ⏩ ✈

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1,112
    Location:
    тχ, yttre rymden
    Status:
    Non-Student
  43. Ferneezy

    Ferneezy I don't always Go Blue, but when I do...

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    957
    Status:
    Pre-Dental
    SDN 2+ Year Member
    ^^^ neat.

    any challenges with the new joint that you hadn't already seen with your first practice?

    how many np's per month? what percentage of your np's are walk-ins? your location looks like you'd get a lot of that.
  44. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    The 2nd office is in a much busier street and underserved community. We had 80 new patients in the first month, where first office had about 60 patients in our first month.

    Walk-ins are about 3-4 patients a day. We have 4 major national restaurants in my building and next door to my office - all are very busy. 2 of those restaurants have drive-throughs, and come around the bend in front of the dental office. So this helped us tremendously.
  45. proxbox

    proxbox

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Messages:
    43
    Status:
    Dental Student
    Cold Front,
    Keep up the good work! If you don't mind me asking...what was your debt load out of D school?
  46. OceanDMD

    OceanDMD Rather be fishing

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    798
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Hey Cold Front, the "L" is out on your sign.
  47. Silent Cool

    Silent Cool Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,759
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    LOL, is this my claim to fame now? :laugh:
  48. Silent Cool

    Silent Cool Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,759
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Cold,

    did you do any additional training in pedo? How does your advertising work compared to pedodontists?
  49. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    It has long been fixed. I actually took that shot to show it to my sign guy. :)
  50. Cold Front

    Cold Front Supreme Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,096
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Status:
    Dentist
    SDN 7+ Year Member
    Yes, I took tons of CE courses for pedo, and have pediatric dentist associating for me. As far as advertising, under my state's dental board advertisement law, I can call the office anything I want, but not use keywords like "dentistry for children" or similar for false advertisement. I had to enquire by email with the state board to make sure I didn't run into any issues.

    Good question.

Share This Page


About the ads