Operational medicine short courses

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Perrotfish

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Does anyone have any experiences to share with the military medicine short courses like mountain medicine, biological warfare medicine, cold weather medicine, tropical medicine? Any that you guys would recommend taking/avoiding? Experiences you would like to share? Any courses other than the 4 I mentioned that I should look into?

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Tcmc at fort Sam was probably the best predeployment course of the ones I've taken. If you're a surgeon ews was good. Trop med was just ok, but got me thinking about tropical disease again which is relevant to where I deployed. Humanitarian med course was good too, especially for primary care types.
 
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Both the courses at Bridgeport were fun if you like that sort of stuff

I spent most every summer of my teenage years working at a Boy Scout Camp in that part of the Sierras. I was leading a trek in the Carson-Iceberg Wilderness with some older scouts and one of the Marine units that was on a field exercise let us observe maneuvers and let us engage in some of the wilderness survival training. Good times...
 
Does anyone have any experiences to share with the military medicine short courses like mountain medicine, biological warfare medicine, cold weather medicine, tropical medicine? Any that you guys would recommend taking/avoiding? Experiences you would like to share? Any courses other than the 4 I mentioned that I should look into?

I took the Tropical Medicine Short Course (about 4 days) while I was a GMO in Okinawa. It was taught at the time by an excellent ID attending from USUHS/NNMC. Since we were stationed in PACOM, they tailored the course to most of the infectious diseases we were likely to face in Asia, which made it very effective. I would highly recommend this course if available...you may be able to get CMEs, but I'm not sure.

NTTC was excellent, too, but as a Pediatrician you may be the wrong audience unless you are deploying.
 
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What the hell is going on with this thread? It's full of reasonable questions and answers about things relevant to military medicine. There's no complaining, insulting, or trolling at all? WTF is going on? I'm afraid...
 
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Follow up question: does asking for the trop med course make me a dick? It's the one I'd personally like to take the most, and the one I'm most likely to use since Pediatricians usually get tagged for Pacific Partnership. On the other hand its 6 weeks that I wouldn't be on the call schedule or seeing clinic at a small MTF and I don't really want to piss off everyone in my hospital.
 
I don't think so. Here's why:

1. If you'd be ok with your partner's doing it, then you shouldn't feel guilty. If they never do anything like it, then that's their fualt, not yours.
2. At some point, chances are you'll be pulled away for just as long for some ridiculous military training that won't actually benefit your medical career at all. This is better than that.
3. You could take 6 weeks of vacation. That'd be a dick move. This is just training, and probably is worth CME as well.

You MIGHT want to wait a short while before you do it, though. It's probably not something I'd do right out of training. THAT might be a dick move.
 
IMO, summer is touch and go as it is PCS season and colleagues are usually trying to fit in summer vacations. There were parts of this past summer where my department of 6 was down to 2 because of PCS moves and colleagues taking (much-deserved) vacation.

It all depends on one's individual situation with regard to staffing, workload, etc., but I'd be extremely loath to allow hospital staff in my department to take off for 6 weeks and attend such a course. The mission as hospital/clinic staff is to take care of patients, and if losing a staff for 6 weeks compromised that mission, I'd have zero problem saying no. Outside of courses that are directly necessary for career advancement, I'm of the opinion that the hoorah/oorah/ooh-yah/air power stuff is for operational physicians who will use those skills in an operational environment.

That said, everything in life is negotiable. If I had a new junior staff who got to work immediately, pulled his fair share, made it clear that he wasn't going to weasel out of a deployment tasking, and was transparent about wanting to take an operational course for professional development with respect to said deployment, I'd work with him. Another option is to tack such a course onto the front or back end of a PCS when your absence won't be felt so acutely.
 
That said, everything in life is negotiable. If I had a new junior staff who got to work immediately, pulled his fair share, made it clear that he wasn't going to weasel out of a deployment tasking, and was transparent about wanting to take an operational course for professional development with respect to said deployment, I'd work with him. Another option is to tack such a course onto the front or back end of a PCS when your absence won't be felt so acutely.


My operational reason for wanting to do this is that is seems like pretty much every junior Pediatrician eventually ends up going on a medical mission to tropical areas (Comfort, Mercy, or similar) at least once. That's what was pushing me towards trop med. The other courses are all shorter, but they're also a lot tougher to justify. I feel like not whole lot of Pediatricians seem to get sent to actual warzones these days, unless they really fight for the opportunity.

Unfortunately I am unlikely to ever PCS prior to my ETS. Now that we all get three year orders, and can't accept new orders without extending our commitment for a year, we pretty much all get just one duty station after residency.
 
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if i could have taken the long trop med course i would have in a heart beat. the short course has been revamped and now is more oriented toward medics and other non-clinician providers. the long course is still oriented toward providers, and you'll learn a **** ton per a few buddies who have gone. they did say they had to study a load though, so i guess be ready for that.
 
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In my opinion...the best time to try to go would be enroute after residency. Most people are going to take a boat load of leave anyway on the way to their first duty station so instead of that just go to MTM (if the timing works). You won't have a panel of patients, the clinic won't be used to you, they won't have you on the call schedule and the new command doesn't own you until you check in. Now with that being said there really is no great time to lose a person from the clinic, but if we can deal with 18 weeks of leave for our new mothers (which I'm completely okay with) then we can deal with 6 weeks for a useful course. (Now if the clinic has one of each of these in the middle of PCS season then it's not so great).

Once you are checked in and going about the daily business it becomes much more onerous to leave for extended periods...patient panels are all jacked, call schedules get a big change, etc etc. Easier to not start then to get into the routine and then leave in my opinion.
 
Kinda follow-up question: does anyone know if you can earn your medical surface warfare badge on the mercy/comfort? I know the nurses can, I'm not sure about the medical corps.
 
I'm planning to ask after Christmas for the course the following summer. Think that's appropriate?
Agreed with the above. Summer can be a bad time to go due to personnel changes. It might be workable. Talk to your OIC, find out how dramatic of a shift they're expecting. In smaller departments, you might not gain or lose anyone, and in that case it might be fine. From my experience, the early winter months are the easiest to navigate if the course is available during that time. That being said, you're a pediatrician so that's RSV/URI season.

Here's the right answer: talk to your OIC, let him know what you're thinking. Like Ziehl said, everything's negotiable. Also like Ziehl said, you he might just say no. As long as you're willing to accept both possibilities, you're not being a dick. The other benefit of bringing it up early is that it's on his radar, and so if you bring up the issue in a persistent (but not an irritating) fashion, eventually things will work out in your favor. I would generally also ask my colleagues if any of them take a major issue with it, but our departments usually run small.
 
This thread inspired me to search out as many operational medicine courses I could find. Here is the list that I have so far. Feel free to add any others that you think are relevant.
Miltary Tropical Medicine
Medical Management of Chemical and Biological Casualties Course
Mountain Medicine Course
Combat Casualty Care Course
Cold Weather Medicine

The course catalogs for the Army and Navy are as follows:
Army's Defense Medical Readiness Training Institute
Navy Medicine Operational Training Center

As far as I can tell, the Air Force does not have any optional courses for people to take. Everything that I am aware of (e.g., expeditionary medicine) is meant for people who are deploying.
 
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Kinda follow-up question: does anyone know if you can earn your medical surface warfare badge on the mercy/comfort? I know the nurses can, I'm not sure about the medical corps.


Unfortunately, not. SURFLANT just changed the instruction for all medical department personnel. You can if you're assigned to the ship TAD as the TRAINO, DMOP, etc but not as one of the 6 month deployers.
 
Reviving this thread with more questions:

1) Has anyone here ever successfully convinced their hospital command to let them do either jump school or SERE? Any reviews of either of those schools from people who have gone?

2) Has anyone ever tried one of the non-medical short courses at Bridgeport? Like Animal Packing or that three week survival course?

3) For those who have done the cold medicine course, how much of the course is spent in the field? How much is spent in improvised shelters? Just how cold is it?

My command is driving me a little crazier than usual and I need a boondoggle to fantasize about.
 
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2) Has anyone ever tried one of the non-medical short courses at Bridgeport? Like Animal Packing or that three week survival course?

3) For those who have done the cold medicine course, how much of the course is spent in the field? How much is spent in improvised shelters? Just how cold is it?

I did the cold medicine course in January 2004, sort of. It was abbreviated since I was there with 20 or 30 Marines who were also getting abbreviated versions of some of their courses, including the animal packing one. We only spent a couple days in the field but by the end most of the Marines were ready to call for fire on those mules.

Cold? When I watch the Bastogne scenes in Band of Brothers, I can relate.

I don't know how to get to those courses now. I was a GMO then and my battalion sent us there for a few weeks as part of the pre-deployment workup for Afghanistan. I was voluntold to make the detour from 29 Palms to Bridgeport to Lejeune, instead of 29 Palms back home to Lejeune, a couple days before the CAX workup was done, because some good idea fairy thought the MO should go with the NCOs doing the mule and steep angle shooting courses. I didn't get a lot done there, but the field time was sort of fun, despite it being holy balls cold.
 
I definitely do not recommend SERE. There is no value to you as a physician and it is not fun.
 
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Is the Marine Corps field med course for physicians worth doing? Is it just PowerPoint or is there actually a good field component?
 
Is the Marine Corps field med course for physicians worth doing? Is it just PowerPoint or is there actually a good field component?
It didn't when I took it in 2003, but it may have changed. Surely it has in some ways.

We had perhaps a day or two of field entertainment. Land nav, some obstacle course espirit de corp goofing off, familiarization fire with the M9. Did a snail pace ruck walk for a mile or so before the officers peeled off for more PowerPoint and the Corpsmen kept walking. We all did the USMC fitness test, just for grins I guess, so I ran a total of 6 miles that calendar year instead of the usual 3. Days and days of PowerPoint and being told it was more important to be an officer than a doctor, and how to stay out of "trouble" ... but I was a couple weeks out of internship and excited to be a real doctor out in the real world, so it wasn't so bad. In the context of my life at the time.

The pre-deployment training I got a few years ago from the Army at Ft Jackson was better. That was like adult summer camp. Lots of time outside, lots of range time. One could have a intermittently good time if one suspended disbelief and rolled with the silly bits like convoy security operations, and had a similarly jaded/sarcastic/fun circle of friends. YMMV but I wouldn't volunteer for the field med course today.

If you want a good time in the field, there's still no substitute for getting yourself deployed. :)
 
Necrobump question: just out of curiosity, will the military pay for this kind of nonsense training for a reservist? Can you ask to go to a short course in addition to your drill?
 
Necrobump question: just out of curiosity, will the military pay for this kind of nonsense training for a reservist? Can you ask to go to a short course in addition to your drill?

Yes. Your support to do so will vary greatly depending on your unit, state, and branch. There are units where just getting your typical career progression training can be a challenge and other units willing to send you to a plethora of courses if you can justify their relevance to your role.
 
How in shape do you have to be for mountain medicine? Intern year has not been kind to my cardio endurance.
 
How in shape do you have to be for mountain medicine? Intern year has not been kind to my cardio endurance.
For the USMC course you have to be able to run an excellent PRT to apply. On day 3 of the course you need to run a 1.5 mile PRT on the road in 14 minutes or less in Bridgeport (at 8,000 feet of altitude). If you fail the run you get dropped from the course.

Alternatively the Army mountain medicine course is geared towards physicians, gives you like 30 FAWM credits, and I don't think it actually has a physical fitness requirement. So maybe do that?

If you are planning to do this in medical school or residency, as a rotation, definitely don't do the USMC course. They drop a lot of people and this would be the stupidest possible reason to have a failed rotation on your record.
 
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For the USMC course you have to be able to run an excellent PRT to apply. On day 3 of the course you need to run a 1.5 mile PRT on the road in 14 minutes or less in Bridgeport (at 8,000 feet of altitude). If you fail the run you get dropped from the course.

Alternatively the Army mountain medicine course is geared towards physicians, gives you like 30 FAWM credits, and I don't think it actually has a physical fitness requirement. So maybe do that?

If you are planning to do this in medical school or residency, as a rotation, definitely don't do the USMC course. They drop a lot of people and this would be the stupidest possible reason to have a failed rotation on your record.
Thanks for that info. Was thinking about doing it as a GMO. Do run an excellent PRT, but just barely. But I'm just not as young as I think I am sometimes. Very injury prone. Looking for something cool to do. Everyone seems to be wanting to do tropical medicine, and while likely useful, I like courses where I pick skills in addition to knowledge.
 
Thanks for that info. Was thinking about doing it as a GMO. Do run an excellent PRT, but just barely. But I'm just not as young as I think I am sometimes. Very injury prone. Looking for something cool to do. Everyone seems to be wanting to do tropical medicine, and while likely useful, I like courses where I pick skills in addition to knowledge.
'Useful' would be a strong word for any of these courses, but they're interesting. Anyway if you're borderline out of shape for the USMC course just take a few days of leave in the Sierras before the course starts. Mammoth is a beautiful place to spend a week, and once you're altitude adapted the run should be easy.
 
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Operational Emergency Medical Skills (deployment medicine international) was pretty legit. I wasn't reserves at the time and did this during 3rd/4th year of medical school at USUHS.

Not to derail the thread, but milphys you know better. If by legit you mean dangerous and unethical, then definitely. I'm not talking about the live tissue training (that was probably the only legitimate part of the course). Encouraging predominantly naive med students and SF medics to perform invasive procedures on each other under nonsterile conditions without appropriate supervision is wrong. Administering controlled medications to these same people +/- alcohol during these procedures is reprehensible and probably illegal. Not to mention the fact that Dr. Hagmann turned out to be a huge creep and got his medical licenses suspended as a result.
 
I’d somehow forgotten about that creep. I remember meeting him while we were both still on AD. He had PJs drain their blood until they experienced “shock” and then autotransfused them back. He had med studs do nerve blocks (upper arm somewhere) on each other. I don’t think the ketamine and fondling was known. I never understood why the presence of a sexual predator who attacked medical students at USUHS and Bethesda didn’t become a major story.

So yeah not “legit”
 
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Not to derail the thread, but milphys you know better. If by legit you mean dangerous and unethical, then definitely. I'm not talking about the live tissue training (that was probably the only legitimate part of the course). Encouraging predominantly naive med students and SF medics to perform invasive procedures on each other under nonsterile conditions without appropriate supervision is wrong. Administering controlled medications to these same people +/- alcohol during these procedures is reprehensible and probably illegal. Not to mention the fact that Dr. Hagmann turned out to be a huge creep and got his medical licenses suspended as a result.

Wow, I never heard of the fallout since my time there. What I remembered were the pig labs and battlefield medicine portion which was invaluable for me at that time. The creepy stuff wasn't present during my time there. Sounds gross...and horrible. I'll delete the mention of it as I am sorry I hadn't heard what it evolved in to.
 
The Deployment Medicine International thing also isn't a short course in the sense that I meant. A short course is military owned school that funds itself, so that all your command needs to pay for is travel. A quick look at the DMI website (which, yes, still exists) shows that the training costs 5K on top of travel expenses. If you can get your command to pay for that, there are literally thousands of hobby courses you could do, including jungle survival in Guyana and pretty much anything offered by NOLS. Just one of those courses, though, would eat up more than 50% of the CME budget for my entire department, so I don't think its going to happen.


I very much want to do the jungle survival thing, BTW.
 
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Just one of those courses, though, would eat up more than 50% of the CME budget for my entire department, so I don't think its going to happen.

You never know. ...Apparently you also never know whether or not you'll be drugged and sexually assaulted either. Crazy world we live in.
 
You get drugged and fondled in Guyana, too, but it’s in a controlled, sterile, supervised fashion. So it’s totally legit.
 
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Not really a "short course" but if you're Navy, get yourself some TAD orders and come out to Quantico every spring to spend the Atlantic Fleet and All-Navy East rifle and pistol matches with us. No experience necessary, we'll loan you gear, give you ammo, and instruct/help as much or as little as you want. Free billeting, or you can pay for base lodging or a hotel if you want. If you're any good then come for interservice and nationals.

Worst case you just spent a week of paid vacation outside making noise.

The Medical Corps is a tad underrepresented so come on out. :)

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That looks like you guys have a lot of faith in a govt contractor built wall.

Hah, there's a massive berm of dirt on the other side. :) The wall is just to keep the dirt out of the target pits.


Most of those pictures are from Camp Perry, OH at the nationals. Only the 2nd one is actually from Quantico.
 
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