(WAMC) What are my chances for matching into Dermatology?

[Virtuoso87]

Looks good so far.

You'll need to buff up the research as much as you can. For someone without a home program, I would err on the side of more aways to get your name out there and to make sure you get enough LORs.

Thanks for the reply. Any recommendations for what a realistic plan should be for getting more research during 4th year? I'm looking at aways in the NY, PA and surrounding areas but I don't know what a good way to approach that with looking for research at the same time.

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[asmallchild]

Thanks for the reply. Any recommendations for what a realistic plan should be for getting more research during 4th year? I'm looking at aways in the NY, PA and surrounding areas but I don't know what a good way to approach that with looking for research at the same time.

Hard to do meaningful research without taking time off. If you want something more substantial, I'd recommend a research year.

Otherwise, I would try to latch onto a project during your aways. First and foremost is obviously how you are performing clinically but you'll find dermatology aways (for the most part), tend to be pretty mellow. I'd fill the time by volunteering for any research opportunities that may appear with case reports likely being the simplest and quickest way to get published.

 

[ehlersdanlos]

M3
School: Top20
Step 1: 250 (I'm unsure if I'm being neurotic, but I'm a little worried that this score is low for derm since presumably the average has risen from 247 which was reported in 2014. Is my score low for derm?)
Step 2: Haven't taken it yet. (Should I take it before research year?)
Class rank: unknown but at least top50%
Pre clinic: P/F
Clinic: H in Neuro, Surgery, OB/Gyn, Psych. HP in Medicine. Haven't taken Peds or Primary care yet.
Extras: Nothing too crazy. Board member of free clinic and mentorship program for women.
Research: Research in undergrad resulted in 1 pub (not derm related). Thus far unfruitful research from MS1 summer, though eventually, a paper should be coming out (also not derm related). Will most likely be taking a research year (I think I need one... do you all think I need one?). If I do end up taking a research year, is it better if this year is at an institution in the area where I want to end up matching or is it fine if I do this research year with my school/home department (I'm afraid that if I leave, they will forget who I am)?

Thanks in advance!

 

[asmallchild]

M3
School: Top20
Step 1: 250 (I'm unsure if I'm being neurotic, but I'm a little worried that this score is low for derm since presumably the average has risen from 247 which was reported in 2014. Is my score low for derm?)
Step 2: Haven't taken it yet. (Should I take it before research year?)
Class rank: unknown but at least top50%
Pre clinic: P/F
Clinic: H in Neuro, Surgery, OB/Gyn, Psych. HP in Medicine. Haven't taken Peds or Primary care yet.
Extras: Nothing too crazy. Board member of free clinic and mentorship program for women.
Research: Research in undergrad resulted in 1 pub (not derm related). Thus far unfruitful research from MS1 summer, though eventually, a paper should be coming out (also not derm related). Will most likely be taking a research year (I think I need one... do you all think I need one?). If I do end up taking a research year, is it better if this year is at an institution in the area where I want to end up matching or is it fine if I do this research year with my school/home department (I'm afraid that if I leave, they will forget who I am)?

Thanks in advance!

You should be fine, I actually heard the average Step 1 score for accepted residents was 251 but 250 should get you past virtually all the cutoff filters

If you are in the process of completing your clinical rotations, I would get Step 2 out of the way while the material is fresh in your head.

I don't think you need a research year. But if you have an interest in one, it will only help your application. I don't think you can go wrong with either selection. If you know you want to match in an area that is typically more competitive, then yes, a research year there will help you make connections and boost your chances. Conversely, if your only goal is to match and your home department has a strong history of taking its own students, then a research year with your home department will probably boost your chances of matching.

 

[DocDoc123!]

MS3
School: State medical school, no home derm program
Step 1: 247
Step 2: Planning on taking it this summer once third year is done.
Class Rank: Top 25%, likely won't get junior AOA, might have a shot at senior AOA
Pre-Clinical: 10 Honors and 5 High Pass (Our school does H/HP/P/F)
Clinical: Honors in FM, Peds, Medicine, Psych. High Pass in OB/Gyn. Just started surgery.
Extras: Helped start a free dermatology clinic for the underserved at my school and was the Derm SIG co-president for my class. I was also the geriatrics clinic manager for my school's student clinic. Will graduate with a narrative medicine concentration as well.
Research: My Achilles heel - nothing at the moment. I worked on a pediatrics education project during my summer after MSI but it unfortunately didn't lead to anything. Currently I'm talking with a (relatively) nearby school's PI about doing a research year with them, but won't know more until another week or two. If that doesn't pan out, will then just work on doing 2-3 aways and hustling in order to do as many case reports/poster presentations as I can.

So what are my chances looking like? Should I definitely take a research year to have any sort of shot? Or if I worked hard and cranked out a couple case reports and other minor projects before september/october do you think that will be sufficient? I've been thinking about derm since MSI and enjoy the outpatient focus, mix of patient demographics, and combination of minor procedures and medicine. I also really enjoyed my psychiatry rotation this year though and think that I could be happy doing that as well. I was surprised by how much I enjoyed getting to sit down and really talk with patients and examine how their lives, coping strategies, and stressors contributed to the development of their pathology. I was also a history major in college and I think that psychiatry appeals to the humanities buff in me. However, I can also easily imagine myself getting desensitized and burnt out/demoralized after a couple years. Thoughts? Dual Apply? Thanks for any and all advice!

 

[asmallchild]

MS3
School: State medical school, no home derm program
Step 1: 247
Step 2: Planning on taking it this summer once third year is done.
Class Rank: Top 25%, likely won't get junior AOA, might have a shot at senior AOA
Pre-Clinical: 10 Honors and 5 High Pass (Our school does H/HP/P/F)
Clinical: Honors in FM, Peds, Medicine, Psych. High Pass in OB/Gyn. Just started surgery.
Extras: Helped start a free dermatology clinic for the underserved at my school and was the Derm SIG co-president for my class. I was also the geriatrics clinic manager for my school's student clinic. Will graduate with a narrative medicine concentration as well.
Research: My Achilles heel - nothing at the moment. I worked on a pediatrics education project during my summer after MSI but it unfortunately didn't lead to anything. Currently I'm talking with a (relatively) nearby school's PI about doing a research year with them, but won't know more until another week or two. If that doesn't pan out, will then just work on doing 2-3 aways and hustling in order to do as many case reports/poster presentations as I can.

So what are my chances looking like? Should I definitely take a research year to have any sort of shot? Or if I worked hard and cranked out a couple case reports and other minor projects before september/october do you think that will be sufficient? I've been thinking about derm since MSI and enjoy the outpatient focus, mix of patient demographics, and combination of minor procedures and medicine. I also really enjoyed my psychiatry rotation this year though and think that I could be happy doing that as well. I was surprised by how much I enjoyed getting to sit down and really talk with patients and examine how their lives, coping strategies, and stressors contributed to the development of their pathology. I was also a history major in college and I think that psychiatry appeals to the humanities buff in me. However, I can also easily imagine myself getting desensitized and burnt out/demoralized after a couple years. Thoughts? Dual Apply? Thanks for any and all advice!

I think your stats are good enough where you don't absolutely need a research year. Adding a couple of minor projects between now and application time will certainly solidify your application but won't guarantee anything.

I usually recommend the research year if you are hellbent on derm and cannot imagine doing anything else.

It sounds like you have a very viable backup plan in psychiatry and if you would prefer to dual apply, I think that could work very nicely too. Obviously, this may limit where you could apply for psychiatry as you don't want to dual apply for two residency positions at one institution (even though there is a low likelihood the two departments communicate)

 

[cnfz]

School: Low-tier with no home program
Step 1: 250s
Step 2: 250s
Class rank: unknown, did not get Jr. AOA, Sr. AOA TBD
Clinical: A's in EM, Neuro, Surgery, Ob/Gyn, FM. B's in IM, Psych, Peds.
Research: Currently doing a research year at a major academic institution. Will probably end up with ~15 abstracts, presentations, and publications.

I'm trying to figure out how many derm aways to do. I have a derm elective scheduled in Sept at one of our affiliated hospitals and it's the closest thing we have to a home program (but not really). My plan was to do 2 away electives, but I'm having second thoughts. I'm more of a "keep your head down and work" type of person so I don't come off as enthusiastic as others. I know that most derm electives involve just shadowing so I'm not sure if it'll be that beneficial to do 2 aways. Perhaps just 1 away? Any advice is much appreciated.

 

[asmallchild]

School: Low-tier with no home program
Step 1: 250s
Step 2: 250s
Class rank: unknown, did not get Jr. AOA, Sr. AOA TBD
Clinical: A's in EM, Neuro, Surgery, Ob/Gyn, FM. B's in IM, Psych, Peds.
Research: Currently doing a research year at a major academic institution. Will probably end up with ~15 abstracts, presentations, and publications.

I'm trying to figure out how many derm aways to do. I have a derm elective scheduled in Sept at one of our affiliated hospitals and it's the closest thing we have to a home program (but not really). My plan was to do 2 away electives, but I'm having second thoughts. I'm more of a "keep your head down and work" type of person so I don't come off as enthusiastic as others. I know that most derm electives involve just shadowing so I'm not sure if it'll be that beneficial to do 2 aways. Perhaps just 1 away? Any advice is much appreciated.

Your stats plus your highly productive research year should speak for itself.

That being said, because of the lack of a home program, you may still find yourself needing 3 total electives (2 aways) to get all the LORs you'll need. Perhaps try a program you aren't so excited about as the final away in case your enthusiasm begins to wane (i.e. don't rotate at one of your dream programs in case your away rotation doesn't go as well as planned)?

I wouldn't discount the "keep your head down and work" attitude. Many programs have had issues with prima donna residents. Sometimes (as was the case the year I rotated thru the program I eventually matched at), that is exactly the personality they are looking for in their residents.

 

[Leoz M Jiliums]

Hi there,

I'm late in deciding to go into derm. Recently did an elective and liked it

School: top 25, has derm program
Step 1: 255
Step 2: 256

Class Rank: Half split of H/HP, P/F preclinicals, probably won't get AOA
Research: No Derm Research but 5 first author papers, One Second Author paper, 1 Presentation at conference national conference, 1 poster presentation in other fields.


Should I back up apply/ do a research year?

 

[IwannabeDrP]

Hi, writing for my significant other here.

She was thinking geriatrics and has since decided to go into dermatology. I am a resident and we'd like to stay in the same city. Chances for her to stay in Chicago (6 programs)? She is planning on doing at least 1 away.

MS3
School: mid-tier midwest MD school with home derm program
Step 1: 249
Step 2: scheduled
Class Rank: top 50%
Pre-Clinical: 1/2 honors, 1/2 high pass
Clinical: high pass across the board, no honors
Extras: AMSA chair, geriatric interest group chair
Research: Also No Derm Research but 4 first author papers in geriatrics with several poster presentations, derm project in the works

Thanks.

 

[asmallchild]

Hi there,

I'm late in deciding to go into derm. Recently did an elective and liked it

School: top 25, has derm program
Step 1: 255
Step 2: 256

Class Rank: Half split of H/HP, P/F preclinicals, probably won't get AOA
Research: No Derm Research but 5 first author papers, One Second Author paper, 1 Presentation at conference national conference, 1 poster presentation in other fields.


Should I back up apply/ do a research year?

Your stats are good enough but you'll need more research. The decision to backup apply vs research year depends on what you really want. If you can't see yourself in any other field and want to make sure you maximize your chances when applying the first time around, go with the research year. If you can see yourself in another field and don't want to go through the hassle of taking a year off, apply this year but make sure you have a backup plan in place (whether that's pursuing your prelim year and then transitioning to something else or actually dual applying)

 

[asmallchild]

Hi, writing for my significant other here.

She was thinking geriatrics and has since decided to go into dermatology. I am a resident and we'd like to stay in the same city. Chances for her to stay in Chicago (6 programs)? She is planning on doing at least 1 away.

MS3
School: mid-tier midwest MD school with home derm program
Step 1: 249
Step 2: scheduled
Class Rank: top 50%
Pre-Clinical: 1/2 honors, 1/2 high pass
Clinical: high pass across the board, no honors
Extras: AMSA chair, geriatric interest group chair
Research: Also No Derm Research but 4 first author papers in geriatrics with several poster presentations, derm project in the works

Thanks.

Same advice to the poster above, her stats look good enough but when you are locking yourself into one area geographically, things get tougher.

If she can only see herself in dermatology and really wants to remain in Chicago, it might be worth doing a research year with one of the programs in that area.

Conversely, she could try to apply for derm as she currently stands (she'll need some derm research first) and use the geriatric pathway as a backup plan. In her case, I would apply to all 6 of the derm programs in Chicago and would apply for geriatrics (or is that a fellowship after family medicine?) at other institutions

 

[dermie225]

Hi all,

PGY-1 at a categorical IM program and would like to switch to derm (actually dual applied as MS4 and did not match derm).

Medical School: mid-tier with a home program
Step 1: 243
Step 2: 257
Class rank: probably in the top 25% but NOT AOA
Preclinical: ~50% honors
Clinical: honors in Ob/Gyn and psych. high pass in everything else
Research: 2 poster presentations (1 derm and 1 non-derm), 1 published derm case report; currently 3 submitted papers (1 derm, 2 non-derm)

I'm trying to decide if I am competitive enough for derm to 'drop out' of my current residency program and pursue it (probably doing a research year first); versus finishing up IM and then applying to derm. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!! thanks

 

[asmallchild]

Hi all,

PGY-1 at a categorical IM program and would like to switch to derm (actually dual applied as MS4 and did not match derm).

Medical School: mid-tier with a home program
Step 1: 243
Step 2: 257
Class rank: probably in the top 25% but NOT AOA
Preclinical: ~50% honors
Clinical: honors in Ob/Gyn and psych. high pass in everything else
Research: 2 poster presentations (1 derm and 1 non-derm), 1 published derm case report; currently 3 submitted papers (1 derm, 2 non-derm)

I'm trying to decide if I am competitive enough for derm to 'drop out' of my current residency program and pursue it (probably doing a research year first); versus finishing up IM and then applying to derm. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!! thanks

Did you end up matching IM at the hospital your med school is affiliated with? If not, is there a derm program associated with the current hospital where you are doing IM? As someone who has already matched into a program, you should speak with your closest affiliated derm program and ask for advice before dropping out of your current position. Funding issues may often complicate your path into derm.

 

[dermie225]

Did you end up matching IM at the hospital your med school is affiliated with? If not, is there a derm program associated with the current hospital where you are doing IM? As someone who has already matched into a program, you should speak with your closest affiliated derm program and ask for advice before dropping out of your current position. Funding issues may often complicate your path into derm.

Thanks! Just curious how is it different than if I had only matched prelim and re-applied to derm? I thought funding was only an issue if I finish IM residency and then apply
I matched at a different program (not affiliated with my medical school).

 

[Dral]

I am not 100% on this, but I think if you match categorical, your GME funding is set for those number of years based on the residency you start. Thus, if you matched categorical medicine, you technically have 2 years left of funding after your intern year. Thus you would have to have a Derm program fund your third year of derm training.

If you match PRELIM (not to be confused with intern year technically) year only and not an advanced residency spot, I would guess funding is left open until you match into a 'terminal pathway' advanced residency (which a prelim or TY year is not)

If you finish out a medicine residency, you will surely use up all your funding years and a Derm program/hospital would have to 'pay your way' so to speak.

Again, not 100% on this, but I THINK that's how it works.

Probably doesn't make your decision any easier...sorry.

 

[jrbirdy]

.

 

[asmallchild]

M3
School: Top20 w/ home program
Step 1: 255
Step 2: Haven't taken it
Class rank: at least top 50%, at best top 25%. Some chance of AOA according to advisors.
Pre clinic: P/F
Clinic: H in Family, Medicine, Neuro, Derm elective, medicine elective; HP peds; P surgery; TBA: EM, psych
Extras: Plenty of leadership roles and volunteering, but nothing to write home about
Research: 3 non-derm projects in the works (1 poster, 2 abstracts in the works, will hopefully submit all three for publication by early fall). I have 1 derm project a friend is doing that I could weasel my way onto.

I've kind of set derm aside because it's so competitive, but still have had it in the back of my mind for a long time. I'm not sure I could apply for next year at this point (would need to do another elective at home program + away before September, which may be pushing it). Also -- is it common to do aways after ERAS is submitted (in hopes of getting an interview)?

I wouldn't let the competitiveness factor into it. If you are interested, your stats are just as good as anybody's. The only way to know for sure is to do a rotation and see if you like it. I do agree you would need to at least get an elective with your home program done before September. The away is nice to have but not mandatory.

Many students still do aways after ERAS is submitted as many programs offer courtesy interviews. Derm has traditionally interviewed its applicants later so doing well on an away in October / Nov / possibly even December could net you at least one more coveted interview.

 

[FIREitUP]

I wouldn't let the competitiveness factor into it. If you are interested, your stats are just as good as anybody's. The only way to know for sure is to do a rotation and see if you like it. I do agree you would need to at least get an elective with your home program done before September. The away is nice to have but not mandatory.

Many students still do aways after ERAS is submitted as many programs offer courtesy interviews. Derm has traditionally interviewed its applicants later so doing well on an away in October / Nov / possibly even December could net you at least one more coveted interview.

I would say that December is possibly too late, though Oct/Nov would be good because less rotators will be around to dilute your experience. I would warn any applicant that doing electives during this time (especially November) will make it difficult to schedule internship interviews as you may have to schedule them at the same time as your dermatology interviews.

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

Slightly off topic, but what is the expected turn around time for a case report?

 

[MilkIsGood]

Slightly off topic, but what is the expected turn around time for a case report?

depends on the journal. i still have a case report that was accepted my 2nd year and im about to graduate. i dont think its ever getting published haha

 

[byaaaaaaah23]

depends on the journal. i still have a case report that was accepted my 2nd year and im about to graduate. i dont think its ever getting published haha

Thanks.

 

[Cuongoff]

Can anyone here comment on competitiveness for osteopathic derm residencies?

 

[bluenevus]

I have a general question. How critical is it that our non-derm letter of recommendation be in medicine? I honored third-year medicine and indeed have a letter of recommendation lined up from a junior faculty member who offered to write one. I also honored OB/GYN and worked with essentially the chief medical officer at a hospital, who offered to write me a letter of recommendation as well. Should I keep it medicine? Does it matter all that much? I suppose that if the purpose of the non-derm letter is to find a good PY/TY placement, then I should stick with my medicine letter? Thanks so much! You guys are great.

 

[asmallchild]

I have a general question. How critical is it that our non-derm letter of recommendation be in medicine? I honored third-year medicine and indeed have a letter of recommendation lined up from a junior faculty member who offered to write one. I also honored OB/GYN and worked with essentially the chief medical officer at a hospital, who offered to write me a letter of recommendation as well. Should I keep it medicine? Does it matter all that much? I suppose that if the purpose of the non-derm letter is to find a good PY/TY placement, then I should stick with my medicine letter? Thanks so much! You guys are great.

I would just pick the best non-derm letter you have when submitting to derm programs. In truth, it probably doesn't mean all that much if it isn't written by a dermatologist.

Now for your prelim or TY program, then yes, I would stick with a medicine letter. (Or pull one of your derm letters back and use your OBGYN letter if it's that glowing)

 

[bluenevus]

I would just pick the best non-derm letter you have when submitting to derm programs. In truth, it probably doesn't mean all that much if it isn't written by a dermatologist.

Now for your prelim or TY program, then yes, I would stick with a medicine letter. (Or pull one of your derm letters back and use your OBGYN letter if it's that glowing)

That makes sense! I'm silly and forgot that we choose one series of letters for PY/TY and another for derm programs. Thanks a lot!

 

[babyk911]

Hi ! can anyone discuss the importance of class rank at ACGME and osteopathic programs? Thank you!

 

[xroc]

Hi, just curious as to what my chances of matching would be with my current stats and any suggestions on what I can do to improve my chances going forward in M3 & M4 years . I've always had derm in the back of my mind as a specialty choice but have honestly held back from fully committing until I found out how I did on step.

M3 (just started first rotation/no M3 grades yet)
Top 10 school w/ home program
Step 1: 264
P/F for first 2 years
Non-derm research - 3 papers (1 first author), 4 conferences attended (3 posters, 1 oral presentation) ... no derm research yet :-(

Thanks, everyone!

 

[asmallchild]

Hi ! can anyone discuss the importance of class rank at ACGME and osteopathic programs? Thank you!

The higher the better. In general, those with higher class rank tend to have higher Step 1 scores, better research, better LORs, etc that lead to better chances of matching

 

[asmallchild]

Hi, just curious as to what my chances of matching would be with my current stats and any suggestions on what I can do to improve my chances going forward in M3 & M4 years . I've always had derm in the back of my mind as a specialty choice but have honestly held back from fully committing until I found out how I did on step.

M3 (just started first rotation/no M3 grades yet)
Top 10 school w/ home program
Step 1: 264
P/F for first 2 years
Non-derm research - 3 papers (1 first author), 4 conferences attended (3 posters, 1 oral presentation) ... no derm research yet :-(

Thanks, everyone!

Looks fine, I would introduce yourself to your home department and get your hands on some derm research as soon as possible

 

[BatmanFapMaster]

Been thinking derm since I started med school but during MS1-2 I waffled between that and another field. Regardless, I'm finishing up MS3 now and heading out for Derm Away rotations soon. Would love advice about how to improve my application and my competitiveness/likelihood of matching. Any comments would be appreciated!

School: State medical school, top 30 NIH with home derm program.
Step 1: 259
Step 2: Summer 2016
Class Rank: Top 25%
AOA: Yes, Junior.
Pre-Clinical: 3.8 (Mostly H)
Clinical: Honors in IM, Surg, OBGYN, Peds. NH in Psychiatry. No grade for FM yet, but likely H/NH.
LOR: Strong, but only one from a dermatologist so far. Hoping these Aways will allow for some contact with faculty so I can get more derm LORs.
EC: Lots of volunteer work. Tons of ECs, teaching, and leadership.
Research: I've received a bunch of grants (~80K) and have many years of significant research experience, including derm benchwork between MS1-2. From this, lots of presentations (2 derm) and posters (0 derm). 2 small papers, non-derm. I've recently become more interested in projects instead of bench work (for example, working on a community evaluation of barriers to using sun protection, making patient guides for different tx modalities in derm). Sorry I can't be more specific--trying to keep this confidential. In short--I'm afraid that I appear as someone with a lot of research *experience* but nothing super impressive to show for it. Do you think this will bite me in the butt? I am deciding between academic dermatology and rural derm.

 

[asmallchild]

Been thinking derm since I started med school but during MS1-2 I waffled between that and another field. Regardless, I'm finishing up MS3 now and heading out for Derm Away rotations soon. Would love advice about how to improve my application and my competitiveness/likelihood of matching. Any comments would be appreciated!

School: State medical school, top 30 NIH with home derm program.
Step 1: 259
Step 2: Summer 2016
Class Rank: Top 25%
AOA: Yes, Junior.
Pre-Clinical: 3.8 (Mostly H)
Clinical: Honors in IM, Surg, OBGYN, Peds. NH in Psychiatry. No grade for FM yet, but likely H/NH.
LOR: Strong, but only one from a dermatologist so far. Hoping these Aways will allow for some contact with faculty so I can get more derm LORs.
EC: Lots of volunteer work. Tons of ECs, teaching, and leadership.
Research: I've received a bunch of grants (~80K) and have many years of significant research experience, including derm benchwork between MS1-2. From this, lots of presentations (2 derm) and posters (0 derm). 2 small papers, non-derm. I've recently become more interested in projects instead of bench work (for example, working on a community evaluation of barriers to using sun protection, making patient guides for different tx modalities in derm). Sorry I can't be more specific--trying to keep this confidential. In short--I'm afraid that I appear as someone with a lot of research *experience* but nothing super impressive to show for it. Do you think this will bite me in the butt? I am deciding between academic dermatology and rural derm.

It looks like you should be fine. I agree you will probably want more publications prior to interview season. I would try and churn out a few quick case reports in addition to all the work that you've been doing

 

[Fournier_sloth]

New account for anonymity reasons. MS3, very late to the Derm game. Any advice is desperately sought!

School: Top 20 with home Derm program that I have not connected with yet
Step 1: 251
Step 2: Planning on taking it after September 15 unless otherwise advised either to take it earlier or to take a research year
Class Rank: Top 50%, at best top 25%. No junior AOA at my school.
Pre-Clinical: School is P/F only. All P
Clinical: Honors in Medicine. High Pass in everything else. Currently on family medicine.
Extras: A few things here and there but no head turners
Research: 1 basic science publication in undergrad, 2 posters (clinical research, non-Derm related), 1 Derm case report accepted.

What are my chances given the above? Any words of advice?

Also, I have the option of currently pursuing a translational research project using research techniques I am really interested in and hope to implement in future (systems biology/bioinformatics, cancer but hematopoietic malignancies not skin), but I am unsure if I should follow the crowd and pick more case reports and clinical chart review projects in dermatology. The translational research lab I have talked to churn out papers quickly, but should I just focus on more dermatology related research projects even though I am not as interested in chart review type projects? Should I take a research year given my subpar step score and clinical grades? If I do, should I just email dermatology faculty randomly and hope that there might be funding?

Thanks in advance for any advice

 

[asmallchild]

New account for anonymity reasons. MS3, very late to the Derm game. Any advice is desperately sought!

School: Top 20 with home Derm program that I have not connected with yet
Step 1: 251
Step 2: Planning on taking it after September 15 unless otherwise advised either to take it earlier or to take a research year
Class Rank: Top 50%, at best top 25%. No junior AOA at my school.
Pre-Clinical: School is P/F only. All P
Clinical: Honors in Medicine. High Pass in everything else. Currently on family medicine.
Extras: A few things here and there but no head turners
Research: 1 basic science publication in undergrad, 2 posters (clinical research, non-Derm related), 1 Derm case report accepted.

What are my chances given the above? Any words of advice?

Also, I have the option of currently pursuing a translational research project using research techniques I am really interested in and hope to implement in future (systems biology/bioinformatics, cancer but hematopoietic malignancies not skin), but I am unsure if I should follow the crowd and pick more case reports and clinical chart review projects in dermatology. The translational research lab I have talked to churn out papers quickly, but should I just focus on more dermatology related research projects even though I am not as interested in chart review type projects? Should I take a research year given my subpar step score and clinical grades? If I do, should I just email dermatology faculty randomly and hope that there might be funding?

Thanks in advance for any advice

I think you are just fine. Do you have the option of pursuing both research projects? The first option seems like something you are really passionate about. Case reports and clinical chart review projects shouldn't be things that take tremendously long and I think it would be beneficial to have both publications as well as some substantial meaningful research on your CV as well.

I don't think a research year is necessary (251 is not subpar...) but you do need to introduce yourself to your home department ASAP and get your 4th year schedule set up for derm. On the other hand, if you are interested in a research year, then yes, I would email faculty to see if you can get started on a project. Many of these research years for medical students are unpaid just an FYI

 

[Fournier_sloth]

I think you are just fine. Do you have the option of pursuing both research projects? The first option seems like something you are really passionate about. Case reports and clinical chart review projects shouldn't be things that take tremendously long and I think it would be beneficial to have both publications as well as some substantial meaningful research on your CV as well.

I don't think a research year is necessary (251 is not subpar...) but you do need to introduce yourself to your home department ASAP and get your 4th year schedule set up for derm. On the other hand, if you are interested in a research year, then yes, I would email faculty to see if you can get started on a project. Many of these research years for medical students are unpaid just an FYI

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I can pursue both. My hesitation lies in the fact that I've repeatedly been told that dermatology is all about the connections, so I'm unsure if I'm being foolish in pursuing other research projects that I am pretty passionate about, but which won't help me with connections in the field.

I'll work on introducing myself to faculty ASAP. How does this work, though? Do students usually email to set up a formal meeting about their interest in the field and intent to apply?

 

[argentiniaroad]

I am a practicing pathologist that would like to apply to dermatology. I do not have a fellowship and have been practicing rurally for two years. My MD is from an LCME-accredited institution.

My step scores are competitive (260s). I do not have AOA (medical school didn't feature it). My medical school was P/F. I am not heavily involved in research nor heavily published outside of a few case reports and poster presentations at national pathology meetings.

I would like advice on how I can increase my chances for obtaining a position in dermatology. I understand dermatology is very competitive and the odds are slim but I still would like to try.

 

[asmallchild]

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I can pursue both. My hesitation lies in the fact that I've repeatedly been told that dermatology is all about the connections, so I'm unsure if I'm being foolish in pursuing other research projects that I am pretty passionate about, but which won't help me with connections in the field.

I'll work on introducing myself to faculty ASAP. How does this work, though? Do students usually email to set up a formal meeting about their interest in the field and intent to apply?

How time consuming is your translation research project? If it's something that occupies the majority of your spare time, then yes, I would select projects that allow you to publish and allow you to hobknob with influential derm faculty. On the other hand, if it's not something that is very time consuming, I think it can be a valuable piece to add to your application.

Regarding introductions, most programs should have a faculty member who deals primarily with students and rotators. I would ask prior students who graduated from your school to see who that person is and start by introducing yourself to him/her. From there, yes, they should arrange to meet you, review your application, provide you with research opportunities, etc.. etc.. (ideally)

 

[asmallchild]

I am a practicing pathologist that would like to apply to dermatology. I do not have a fellowship and have been practicing rurally for two years. My MD is from an LCME-accredited institution.

My step scores are competitive (260s). I do not have AOA (medical school didn't feature it). My medical school was P/F. I am not heavily involved in research nor heavily published outside of a few case reports and poster presentations at national pathology meetings.

I would like advice on how I can increase my chances for obtaining a position in dermatology. I understand dermatology is very competitive and the odds are slim but I still would like to try.

I would invite others to chime in as this is not a very frequent career path. My recommendation would be to figure out where you want to go to residency and contact local programs to see if you can speak with someone about your interest.

Beyond just the academic application, you may run into funding issues and these are items that I unfortunately don't know much about.

My recommendation would also be to select programs that have had a history of taking non-traditional applicants like yourself as they will be better versed in how to navigate some of the funding landmines. (It's not readily available at every program site, but if you can search previous resident alumni and if they happen to be boarded in multiple specialties, that's a good sign)

As an outsider, the best way in is via connections. Sometimes, in order to build those connections, that may mean returning to a research lab to "earn" your way into a coveted derm residency slot.

 

[argentiniaroad]

I would invite others to chime in as this is not a very frequent career path. My recommendation would be to figure out where you want to go to residency and contact local programs to see if you can speak with someone about your interest.

Beyond just the academic application, you may run into funding issues and these are items that I unfortunately don't know much about.

My recommendation would also be to select programs that have had a history of taking non-traditional applicants like yourself as they will be better versed in how to navigate some of the funding landmines. (It's not readily available at every program site, but if you can search previous resident alumni and if they happen to be boarded in multiple specialties, that's a good sign)

As an outsider, the best way in is via connections. Sometimes, in order to build those connections, that may mean returning to a research lab to "earn" your way into a coveted derm residency slot.

Thanks for your input. I have taken heed of it.

Any other advice is welcome.

 

[dropout87]

I am currently on dermatology at my home program and I had applied to several aways for July but they were denied because my application was submitted late (transcript was uploaded late). Now, in August and September, my schedule is filled with mandatory courses so my best chance at aways is October or November. Is that going to hurt my chances since I won't have an away rotation listed on my transcript or have letters from away institutions? Any advice is appreciated!!

Background: in-state med school with a decent derm program where couple of the letter writers are well known.
Step 1: 265
Clinical grades: all honors, grade not submitted yet for ob/gyn
AOA: applied, will find out before September
Research: 2 published derm reviews, 2 submitted derm papers, 1 oral presentation, 1 poster, 2 abstract
Thanks!!

 

[asmallchild]

I am currently on dermatology at my home program and I had applied to several aways for July but they were denied because my application was submitted late (transcript was uploaded late). Now, in August and September, my schedule is filled with mandatory courses so my best chance at aways is October or November. Is that going to hurt my chances since I won't have an away rotation listed on my transcript or have letters from away institutions? Any advice is appreciated!!

Background: in-state med school with a decent derm program where couple of the letter writers are well known.
Step 1: 265
Clinical grades: all honors, grade not submitted yet for ob/gyn
AOA: applied, will find out before September
Research: 2 published derm reviews, 2 submitted derm papers, 1 oral presentation, 1 poster, 2 abstract
Thanks!!

Sorry, ended up moving your thread since it's kind of a "What are my chances" type post.

I think you have excellent stats. It has become common now to do at least one away. If you have enough letters to send off an application for ERAS, it should be fine. Your stats are good enough that coupled with good letters, I think you stand a very good chance. It would probably still be worthwhile to do at least one away rotation in October since it will give you an idea of how other programs are structured and might be a way to secure at least one courtesy interview.

Conversely, if you don't have enough LORs, I think it would be in your best interest to try and move an away up as soon as possible.

 

[dropout87]

Sorry, ended up moving your thread since it's kind of a "What are my chances" type post.

I think you have excellent stats. It has become common now to do at least one away. If you have enough letters to send off an application for ERAS, it should be fine. Your stats are good enough that coupled with good letters, I think you stand a very good chance. It would probably still be worthwhile to do at least one away rotation in October since it will give you an idea of how other programs are structured and might be a way to secure at least one courtesy interview.

Conversely, if you don't have enough LORs, I think it would be in your best interest to try and move an away up as soon as possible.

No problem, Thank you very much!! I can get 3 strong derm letters from my home program with 2 letters writers that are well known. I also have one strong medicine letter. Is that enough or should I aim for 4 dermatology letters? Not having aways line-up is giving me anxiety since I was told that aways shows up on the school transcript. And not having any by September, I don't want programs to look that as a negative. Thanks!

 

[asmallchild]

No problem, Thank you very much!! I can get 3 strong derm letters from my home program with 2 letters writers that are well known. I also have one strong medicine letter. Is that enough or should I aim for 4 dermatology letters? Not having aways line-up is giving me anxiety since I was told that aways shows up on the school transcript. And not having any by September, I don't want programs to look that as a negative. Thanks!

I'll have to say I'm not that up to date on the ERAS requirements anymore. If most programs are requesting 3 LORs, then I think you should have enough.

I don't think most people look at the transcript. They'll notice if you rotated somewhere and got a LOR from Dr. XYZ. As long as you have some away rotation experience prior to interviews, that should be enough for you to talk about it. Best of luck!

 

[Virtuoso87]

Hi everybody,

No derm home residency program so I always thought it might be a bit of a pipe dream but maybe not.

MS3. Will be done with third year in mid April.
School: Public school in NE
Step 1: 257
Step 2: Haven't taken it, considering putting it off until ~October?
Class rank: Unknown.
Pre clinic: P/F. They keep number grades for AOA consideration only. 90+ for all the big classes (phys, path, pharm etc) so hopefully I have a shot at AOA
Clinic: Honors in FM. HP in OBGYN, Neuro, Psych, Medicine. I'm hoping med will bump up to honors, my school is strict on giving out H/HP and re-evaluates after a while. No grades for surgery or pediatrics yet (not done). 90+ on all shelf exams.
Extras: Student advisor, Served as a service leader for an area free clinic all second year (helps coordinate the clinic, assists at it, organize volunteers) so a lot of community service hours there too.
Research: Need to work on this. I reached out to a local dermatologist and through that am currently writing a derm related paper and hopefully can get a case report out of it too. Nothing else. Started cards related research in the summer between first and second year but then the program funding changed so I lost that opportunity about a week in and have nothing to show for it haha.

Thanks for any advice/suggestions

So update:
Currently finishing up one away rotation and have two more lined up for the summer. I hope to get a LOR from the program director here. I have 3, possibly 4, case report type things in the works. The original paper I spoke of fell through.

Got a grade boost: internal med went to honors, then ended up with honors in pediatrics and a high pass in surgery.
Got nominated for jr AOA but didn't make the cut this time, hopefully will make it for Sr. But at the least this gives an idea of my class rank.

It seems as if things are heading in the right direction. Any advice?

 

[asmallchild]

So update:
Currently finishing up one away rotation and have two more lined up for the summer. I hope to get a LOR from the program director here. I have 3, possibly 4, case report type things in the works. The original paper I spoke of fell through.

Got a grade boost: internal med went to honors, then ended up with honors in pediatrics and a high pass in surgery.
Got nominated for jr AOA but didn't make the cut this time, hopefully will make it for Sr. But at the least this gives an idea of my class rank.

It seems as if things are heading in the right direction. Any advice?

Looks good, keep plugging away

You want to make a good impression on your aways (it sounds easy but I assure you approaching your last away with as much enthusiasm as your first away is not easy)

I would continue working on LORs and research papers.

Then sit back and enjoy the interview process!

 

[Harpsx]

 

[asmallchild]

I might be jumping the gun a bit, but I've been interested in derm for awhile but never took it super seriously until now, since I've just started 3rd year and have to actually think about what I want to do.
Just want to know if it's something I even have a chance at or if it'll be an uphill battle.

School: Top 10
Step 1: 247
Preclinical: P/F, no class ranking
Clinical: Just started so no grades yet. Will obviously be shooting to honor as many as I can
Research: Oral poster presentation at largest international conference in the field, 1st author pub coming soon (all non-derm related research)
Caveat: Will be couples matching with someone who will likely be trying to match into a semi-competitive/competitive specialty...so there's that.

Am I on an okay track/what should some next steps be to make me a stronger applicant? Will my step score make it slightly more difficult (seeing the scores of some of these posters in this thread make me sweat hahah)?

You are fine so far. The pedigree of your school will help. 247 should get you past all the Step 1 cutoffs (you don't get any extra points for sporting a 270+ score)

Obviously I would honor as many rotations as you can. You will need some derm research (and 3rd year should be a good time to start introducing yourself to your home department during the lighter rotations to see if you can start with any research)

Couples matching tends to be the biggest issue especially if your partner is also trying to match into a competitive field. It obviously differs from couple to couple but to maximize your chances of matching, it may come down to applying separately and risking being in separate cities during residency. (Of course, whether or not that's worth it depends from person to person)

 

[Dr. USMLE]

You are fine so far. The pedigree of your school will help. 247 should get you past all the Step 1 cutoffs (you don't get any extra points for sporting a 270+ score)

I agree with the rest of your post, but am a bit surprised at the step comment. While it is true that a 247 should get someone past all the cutoffs, higher scores do seem to help.

In my experience with applicants to competitive specialties, 240s is average, 250s is good, 260s is impressive, and 270s is very impressive. If you have a prestigious program in a competitive location in a competitive specialty, the average steps can approach the 260s. Some derm programs even use the actual numerical score in their ranking algorithm.

 

[asmallchild]

I agree with the rest of your post, but am a bit surprised at the step comment. While it is true that a 247 should get someone past all the cutoffs, higher scores do seem to help.

In my experience with applicants to competitive specialties, 240s is average, 250s is good, 260s is impressive, and 270s is very impressive. If you have a prestigious program in a competitive location in a competitive specialty, the average steps can approach the 260s. Some derm programs even use the actual numerical score in their ranking algorithm.

Higher scores can help. In general, 240 has been the cutoff to get most people into the door. With the more competitive specialties like derm, it does seem like the average for matched applicants has risen into the 250s.

There are certainly programs that will put a very high premium on a high Step 1 score (I attended a residency program where a 270 Step 1 score would likely cover most if not all other deficiencies on an application). But the vast majority of programs look at the overall package (and even at my residency program, making the right connections with the right faculty members would likely still trump a 270)

The poster was asking if a 247 would limit their options and my answer still stands, it would not.

 

[bluenevus]

How important is it to submit my ERAS at the earliest possible time, i.e. September 15th? Would it be a significant handicap if I waited due to wanting to give enough time for an attending to write a good recommendation letter? Or would submitting as-is (with one fewer dermatology LOR at least initially), then adding the final dermatology LOR when it is ready be the better move? Thanks a lot.