(WAMC) What are my chances for matching into Dermatology?

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Thanks to everyone so far for the help, you guys are great.

Ok, so I'm finishing out my third year with a month of Neuro and a month of Psych. I've still got A's across the board in my clerkships, but no Honors unfortunately. I get great evaluations (both subjectively and objectively) and do well on the shelf exams, but my school is notoriously stingy with handing out Honors it seems, which is really really frustrating.

Anyway, I've talked with some people in our derm department and I'll be able to shadow in the derm clinic once a week or so during this month and next. I've also discussed starting a research project with another of the derm faculty members and that should hopefully begin very shortly. Finally, I also was able to become involved in a case write up/presentation (sort of like a grand rounds) already. So I'm making some headway, it's just still all pretty daunting thinking about the road ahead.

After I finish my psych rotation in June, I'll then have a home Derm elective the first month of M4 in July, followed by (hopefully) an away elective in Derm. After that, I have a medicine sub-internship for a month in September, and then hopefully October I will be doing a research elective in Derm. Would there be any tangible benefit to switching the away rotation and research elective (perhaps so that I could get involved with more meaningful research earlier)? I scheduled the away slot early thinking the earlier the better, but I'm not really sure if that's the case or not.

If anyone has any other input/advice, I'd love to hear it. I'm working hard on this all, and thankfully have some very supportive faculty. I think my main worry at the moment is my lack of clinical "Honors", because it seems like all the people who match on here pretty much Honored their entire third year.

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Thanks, I realized the sticky was there after I made this thread, but obviously wasn't able to move my posts to the sticky thread myself.
 
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I've personally witnessed the following:

1. Taking an extra year of medical school, working in the Dermatology clinics and in a Dermatology research lab. Matched!

2. Doing a year of IM, then doing a year of research fellowship, with the added bonus of being Matched into the following year.

3. Completing an entire IM residency and then Matching into Dermatology.

If you complete an entire IM residency and then apply for derm (or anything else for that matter) what will the status of your funding be? I know that if you do 1 year of prelim, that 1 year counts towards your overall funding of whatever residency you will complete. Is it different if you "complete" one and then start another?
 
Question-what are my chances and what else should I do?

Usmle 1: 269
Med school us news rank 20ish
Not Jr AOA, but I think I'll likely be Sr. AOA
Basic Science Grades: Honors in 95% of classes
Clinical Grades: Honors in all rotations, really good eval comments
Extracurriculars in med school: NOTHING (for real, nothing at all)
Volunteer: spent a couple of months overseas doing dermatology volunteer work
Research: all research in derm. spent 1 month after 1st year doing derm "research" (basically shadowing-but I did write a case report, first author); besides the case report have a poster presentation, 1st author on another case report, working on case series right now.
Rec letters-should have strong rec letters


should I try to get involved with extracurricular stuff this summer? or should I just keep focusing on research? any other suggestions?
 
Question-what are my chances and what else should I do?

Usmle 1: 269
Med school us news rank 20ish
Not Jr AOA, but I think I'll likely be Sr. AOA
Basic Science Grades: Honors in 95% of classes
Clinical Grades: Honors in all rotations, really good eval comments
Extracurriculars in med school: NOTHING (for real, nothing at all)
Volunteer: spent a couple of months overseas doing dermatology volunteer work
Research: all research in derm. spent 1 month after 1st year doing derm "research" (basically shadowing-but I did write a case report, first author); besides the case report have a poster presentation, 1st author on another case report, working on case series right now.
Rec letters-should have strong rec letters


should I try to get involved with extracurricular stuff this summer? or should I just keep focusing on research? any other suggestions?

Your CV sounds amazing. Also, sounds like you have a friendly personality since you had good evals during 3rd year. You might want to get involved in some extracurricular stuff though. In my experience, I talked about my extracurricular activities way more than anything academic in derm interviews.
 
Hey Derm WAMC thread, I have a predicament.

After grinding for months studying for my boards, I somehow ended up with a 238 and this really depressed me (was getting >240s on my practices). Since I started med school I have been interested in derm and did research between my MS1/MS2 year.

Are my chances completely shot to hell? I have no problem doing a research year because I really loved the research I did during that summer. Of course I am going to work hard at my 3rd year rotations, but this step score is making me wonder if it's even worth it.

What do you guys think?


I know 2 people who just matched with scores of 239 and 240. Both matched at top programs. Just have a significant thing going for academically (aoa, research)
 
I know 2 people who just matched with scores of 239 and 240. Both matched at top programs. Just have a significant thing going for academically (aoa, research)

Thanks for that... all is not lost :)

However, I go to a top 15 school who bases most of their AOA decisions on board score. I will really go hard my third year, but I am not expecting to make senior or junior AOA. I do already have an extensive research background (6+ pubs from ugrad, non-derm), and I already did derm research.

Hopefully a productive year off and some good contacts within the field will get me SOME place.

One more thing, I ended up getting a patent this year on a project I've been working on for 4+ years. It's not derm related, but it's definitely medicine related. Do you think this will help in some way? At least be something of interest?
 
Thanks for that... all is not lost :)

Hopefully a productive year off and some good contacts within the field will get me SOME place.

One more thing, I ended up getting a patent this year on a project I've been working on for 4+ years. It's not derm related, but it's definitely medicine related. Do you think this will help in some way? At least be something of interest?

A productive year off and the patent are excellent additions to the CV. :thumbup: If you have that on your application, you'll probably be pleasantly surprised how often it will come up as 1/2 the time during my interviews I was asked about my research and hobbies/projects I was involved with.
 
I know everything is very subjective but I would like to know if I have a solid chance at matching.

I am starting 4th year tomorrow with my Derm elective.

Grades: Honors in 95% of 1st and 2nd year courses, Honors in 50% clinicals, High pass in 50% (Waiting on Surgery but expecting a HP).
Pubs: one major publication with derm residency program director at home school from summer after 1st year, one nonderm related abstract, one nonderm related case report, future plans: derm related case report and research project at an away elective (in September so won't be able to put anything on my CV)
Extracurricular: various non derm related volunteer activities (student outreach clinic, AMWA, indian dancing, etc) VP of Derm Student Interest group (helped with melanoma awareness, free derm day for outreach clinic)
Aoa: not sure
Step 1: 256I plan on taking my Step 2 in August and hope to do as well or slightly better. My AOA status is up in the air due to my so-so clinical grades. I have good connections with my home derm department.

I am interested in pediatric dermatology and my main research project was in peds derm. I'm hoping this helps my application.

Any thoughts on making the most of the few months I have prior to applications would be greatly appreciated.
 
I know everything is very subjective but I would like to know if I have a solid chance at matching.

I am starting 4th year tomorrow with my Derm elective.

Grades: Honors in 95% of 1st and 2nd year courses, Honors in 50% clinicals, High pass in 50% (Waiting on Surgery but expecting a HP).
Pubs: one major publication with derm residency program director at home school from summer after 1st year, one nonderm related abstract, one nonderm related case report, future plans: derm related case report and research project at an away elective (in September so won't be able to put anything on my CV)
Extracurricular: various non derm related volunteer activities (student outreach clinic, AMWA, indian dancing, etc) VP of Derm Student Interest group (helped with melanoma awareness, free derm day for outreach clinic)
Aoa: not sure
Step 1: 256I plan on taking my Step 2 in August and hope to do as well or slightly better. My AOA status is up in the air due to my so-so clinical grades. I have good connections with my home derm department.

I am interested in pediatric dermatology and my main research project was in peds derm. I'm hoping this helps my application.

Any thoughts on making the most of the few months I have prior to applications would be greatly appreciated.

Honestly, I'd push off your Step 2 unless you're a stellar test taker and are sure you're going to do better. My step 1 score was in the same ballpark as yours, and I killed myself to get it. I wasn't going to do the same thing again for step 2, so I took it at the end of december to be safe. No need to ruin the good thing you've already got going for yourself with a so-so step 2 score.

Only one program asked me about it, and it was the day after I got my results. I landed in the mid 240s on it, so it wasn't a big deal to tell them (and I didn't end up liking the program anyway), but I think most people are looking for you to top your step 1 and I was glad to be able to say "I just took it and don't have my results yet".
 
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School: low-tier, not Caribbean
Program: MD-PhD in pharmacology, finishing in 7 years for all
Publications: 2 from research before at an Ivy League school; will have 2-3 first authors by the time I apply; not related to derm in all of them
Step1: 249/77
School grades: As in all but 2 classes
Bunch of extracurricular, presentations, talks and conferences..but not all in derm...

What are my chances?

Thanks for your input..:love:

with your package:

easy going personality = near 100%
a little weird = probably still >80%

good luck!

oh, make some good connections at an away to boost your odds. or align yourself with a person at your home program. this is sort of implied, but highly important.
 
Hi everyone !

So I'm an IMG (no, please keep reading!! :) from France.
I know my chances are next to 0, but I may try anyway.

Here are my stats:

Steps : Step 1 : 237/99 Step 2 CS : 244/99 CS: 1st attempt
Publications : 5 papers (all on pubmed), with 3 derm-related
Conferences : spoke at various conferences, both derm and non-derm
Doing a Derm residency here in France, 1 year into it as of today.
4 LORS (1 US Derm, 2 non-US Derm, 1 non-US non-derm). Those letters are really good, but aren't they all ?
Extracurricular : founder and owner of a small company (non medicine related)

Please be honnest, I can face the truth !

Thanks a lot everyone
 
Hi everyone !

So I'm an IMG (no, please keep reading!! :) from France.
I know my chances are next to 0, but I may try anyway.

Here are my stats:

Steps : Step 1 : 237/99 Step 2 CS : 244/99 CS: 1st attempt
Publications : 5 papers (all on pubmed), with 3 derm-related
Conferences : spoke at various conferences, both derm and non-derm
Doing a Derm residency here in France, 1 year into it as of today.
4 LORS (1 US Derm, 2 non-US Derm, 1 non-US non-derm). Those letters are really good, but aren't they all ?
Extracurricular : founder and owner of a small company (non medicine related)

Please be honnest, I can face the truth !

Thanks a lot everyone

Unless you have a personal connection here and can score a spot outside of the NRMP match, you're right, chances are near 0.

Why not stay in France?
 
Hey everyone.

I'm a brand new M3. Step of 245, As and Bs in the first two years with more As than Bs. Probably won't be AOA. Zero research experience. Summer of first year I had an interesting work experience in a different medical specialty instead of doing research. I didn't go straight to medical school, and worked in a completely different field for a short time. I've got a few volunteer experiences like everyone does.

What are my current chances and what should I do to improve them if I decide to go all in for derm?

Also are there any more recent match statistics for derm other than charting outcomes in the match for 2009? And by that I mean good information, not the self-selected bias from somewhere like matchapplicants. No, matchapplicants, you don't need a 240 to match Anesthesia. -.-
 
I was wondering if I can get an advice on my chances of matching. recently considered matching to derm after a 4th year outpatient elective. i'm planning to apply broadly including community programs and academic programs in small cities.

  • Step 1: 249
  • Step 2: 252
  • Grades are 50th percentile after 2nd yr; awaiting 3rd yr ranks
  • Clinical rotations: A in Surgery, Peds, Ob/Gyn; B in Medicine, Family, Psych
  • Medical school: low to mid-tier in the south
  • No extracurriculars others than volunteering in free clinics
  • No research other than undergrad project on autoimmune disease
 
I was wondering if I can get an advice on my chances of matching. recently considered matching to derm after a 4th year outpatient elective. i'm planning to apply broadly including community programs and academic programs in small cities.

  • Step 1: 249
  • Step 2: 252
  • Grades are 50th percentile after 2nd yr; awaiting 3rd yr ranks
  • Clinical rotations: A in Surgery, Peds, Ob/Gyn; B in Medicine, Family, Psych
  • Medical school: low to mid-tier in the south
  • No extracurriculars others than volunteering in free clinics
  • No research other than undergrad project on autoimmune disease

Your app should be fairly solid. However, it would help to have a little more info (especially since you may need to make up for a bit for lack of research):

AOA?
Any pubs or presentations from the research (or otherwise)?
Prospects for strong lors?
Away rotations?

You could try to fit in a quick case report or review article to demonstrate interest. Remember that not every program is focused on training high powered derm researchers. Many programs are happy to simply train solid clinicians.

The key is to demonstrate that you will be interested in academic contributions during residency and hopefully onward in your career (most programs have yearly research requirements).
 
-MPH--no publications
-step 1 = 240
-step 2 = not taken
-Mostly A's in clerkships
-3.4 gpa

Any chance?
 
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Decent letters...no aways or connections


I'm not too sure about the DO game, but the way I understand it, there are few positions so it's pretty competitive.

If you are applying for allo spots this year, then I'm not so sure. However, my advice to almost anyone is that if you are aware of the competitiveness and still think deep down you have a shot, then go for it.

If you are not applying this year, I'd try to do an away rotation or two and make some connections. I guess it's kind of late to get aways this year, but not impossible.
 
Hey guys,

Just got my Step 1 score. I'm considering taking a year off after 3rd year to do research at NIH/Doris Duke.

More info:

My school uses P/F first 2 years and I passed all my classes.

Just finished my first rotation so can't really say much about third year.

Question: Would you suggest I take the year off? Everyone seems to be against it but I really don't want to go unmatched. I appreciate any suggestions/thoughts/ideas.
 
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Hey guys,

Just got my Step 1 score - 243. I'm considering taking a year off after 3rd year to do research at NIH/Doris Duke.

More info:

I am first author of 6 derm chapters, 2nd author of another derm chapter, and first author of an article in JAAD. I've been involved in a melanoma research project since first year but the PD is thinking of discontinuing the project. I've also volunteered at the derm clinic at my school.

My school uses P/F first 2 years and I passed all my classes.

Just finished my first rotation so can't really say much about third year.

Question: Would you suggest I take the year off? Everyone seems to be against it but I really don't want to go unmatched. I appreciate any suggestions/thoughts/ideas.


I'm wondering why people are shying you away from taking year off. If you took a year off, it would give you a chance to work somewhere interesting and you could get some extra research that would bolster your application. Actually a lot of people take an extra year of research now. For those that really want to get to working as soon as possible, a year off can seem daunting but for derm it might be more than worth it if you are productive in that year off.

BTW, sorry to hear about the melanoma research and that's a little frustrating since you had been working on it for a while. I hope that you are getting publications out of it.

Your step is good enough get your through most of the cutoffs but it won't raise eyebrows in the derm circuit. We tend to be a little skewed here on SDN and everyone will have you think that they're mother and brother got 270s but the majority are sitting in the 240s-250s area anyway.
 
Do you want to match at a competitive program? If so, take the year off.
You'll definitely match otherwise (... maybe even into a top-notch program without having to take the year off).
 
Hey I'm just starting 3rd year. First off, my step 1 is only 227. I know I have to either hope for a miracle or try to take step 2 and do better. I was wondering if a year of research would even help someone like me with such a low step1?. Did my step 1 score just ruin it for me for good...? :/
 
do well in third year (ie. honor everything). start some research and apply for the year off. unfortunately, that low step 1 score will close you off to many (if not the majority) of programs.
 
Hi - it's the begining of my M3 year and I was hoping that you all could lend some insight on whether I would be a competitive derm applicant.

I got mostly honors/near honors M1 and M2 but AOA hasn't been announced yet. I got to a top 30 school.

I passed ob-gyn and will get either honor or near honors in medicine. I have not done any other rotations yet.

I got mid 240s on step 1.

I have one derm case report but should have another before I apply. I also did a summer of derm basic research at a top school and won a small award at a poster contest.

I have very limited ECs/volunteer/work experience.

I work well with others :D.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated!
 
Hi guys. M3 here who recently became interested in derm. I know it will be tough for me (step 1 score 239, only honored 2 classes M1-M2 year, and really don't know how 3rd year will go. I also go to a school with no home derm program). I'm getting involved in research this year, have a good idea for a project lined up. My school typically matches about 3-4 people in derm per year, so it's not totally impossible.

Anyways, my question is what do you guys think is the step 1 cutoff for derm programs? I've heard 235, but I don't know esp since the avg step 1 score for derm in charting outcomes 2011 went up to 244.

Thanks :)
 
hi everyone,

I'm an average 3rd year at an average US allopathic school, I'd like to do dermatology. Here are my stats:
Step 1: 255
Preclinical grades: All Pass (we are P/F only)
Clinical grades: 2 passes, 1 near honors so far
AOA: no
Research: 2 poster presentations
Extracurriculars: not a whole lot

I've just become interested in derm recently. What are my chances if I apply very broadly? What can i do to improve?

Thanks!
 
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What advice do you have for a student that is interested in dermatology, but there is no dermatology department at their medical school?

Are there ways to get research and publishing experience and extracurriculars at neighboring schools and/or organizations?

Thanks
 
Talk to the derms at your school's hospital. Even though there is no residency program, there should be derm attendings that can point you in the right direction.
 
What advice do you have for a student that is interested in dermatology, but there is no dermatology department at their medical school?

Are there ways to get research and publishing experience and extracurriculars at neighboring schools and/or organizations?

Thanks

You can try, but they are going to care of their OWN students.
 
What advice do you have for a student that is interested in dermatology, but there is no dermatology department at their medical school?

Are there ways to get research and publishing experience and extracurriculars at neighboring schools and/or organizations?

Thanks

What year are you in medical school? It will change your strategy.
 
I am applying now, and i really like a med school that does not have a derm program.
 
hey buddy, you are WAAAY ahead of yourself. First get into the best medical school you can. Then try real hard to learn as much as you can. If you are really good, maybe you can get honors in your classes and even be able to get into your school's AOA society. You would also need to do some research in Derm and also find some local mentors.

Once you have done ALL THIS, then you should consider your chances in dermatology. Your best chance is at your home institution but not having a home institution is not a contraindication, it just makes it more challenging to find support/apply. Still, way more importantly, you need to get into the best medical school you can and do the best you can for YEARS!

Right now you should only be focused on getting into a great medical school.
 
chances are by the end of 4 years you'll find yourself loving something else. Rarely do people come into and leave school with the same specialty in mind.
 
chances are by the end of 4 years you'll find yourself loving something else. Rarely do people come into and leave school with the same specialty in mind.

So true. I thought I was going to do sports medicine for certain. Ended up in derm. I don't any of my classmates who matched into derm had planned on it from the start.
 
Surefire steps to guarantee a derm residency spot:

1.) Find a box
2.) Cut a hole in that box
3.) I don't remember what #3 was, but you're 67% of the way there

These steps are sure to work irrespective of whether you attend a medschool with a derm program or not, which is the beauty of the plan I've laid out for you.

Good luck!
 
Haha!

To the OP, you are NOT STARTING WAAY TOO EARLY....you are asking a very good and sound question and the fact that you are asking this early is smart. You are at a disadvantage for derm if you do not have a home derm department...period. I doubt anyone would dispute that. Sure, you can get into derm regardless of whether you do or do not have a home derm department but it's harder without the home dept.


I don't think it's "rarely" that people end up doing something else rather than what they were initially interested in. I think most of the time, people really don't know when they start med school. A large percentage of the people in my class that had early interests ended up in that field....it's not that rare. Sure some change their mind too. I think it's way more of a pain to wait until the 3rd year to make your decision...not the best way to make a decision anyway. You should explore earlier (be it whatever field you think you might like) rather than later.

Again to the OP, if you are this early, you are in a good situation to be thinking about it early. Why don't you PM me with the schools you are thinking about and we can have a discussion about it? There are a lot of factors involved as to why you might still choose the school without the home derm program...family, other departments, location, etc. You WILL have a tougher road to derm though and we can talk about that. You need to set up outside contacts early in that case but it's a harder route since schools understandably tend to have preference for home candidates.

People that start early and know the path to derm early will undoubtedly do better in the process if they can execute...it's not even close. Their reasons for going into derm may or may not be any more genuine than the 3rd or 4th year that decides on derm because they have high scores....you will never know sitting here on sdn.
 
I had the same problem. Did what someone else here already pointed out: 1. Connected with a Dermatologist in the community, affiliated with my school. You may find a similar thing going on at your medical school. 2. Early rotations with them to get your feet wet. 3. Then learn to fly at a few away rotations.

This thread is pushing the envelope of "What are my chances". So, I am moving it to that sticky.
 
Hi guys- I consider myself pretty average and am wondering if I should even bother or have a shot at Derm. What worries me most are my clinical grades- am I at a huge disadvantage with only one honors?

Step 1: 240
Step 2: havent taken yet- not sure if i want to before applications
Preclinical: none, we were on P/F system
Clinical grades: only one honors, rest high pass
AOA: probably not
Reasearch: taking research year- hope to have 2-4 first author derm papers, a couple presentations. one non derm related case report and 4th author non derm paper in undergrad and abstract/presentation.
Extracurriculars: pretty average, typical volunteer stuff.

I have no home derm department to fall back on. Is this enough to have a chance at matching somewhere? I have no location restrictions or preferences. Thanks in advance for any input!
 
Hi guys- I consider myself pretty average and am wondering if I should even bother or have a shot at Derm. What worries me most are my clinical grades- am I at a huge disadvantage with only one honors?

Step 1: 240
Step 2: havent taken yet- not sure if i want to before applications
Preclinical: none, we were on P/F system
Clinical grades: only one honors, rest high pass
AOA: probably not
Reasearch: taking research year- hope to have 2-4 first author derm papers, a couple presentations. one non derm related case report and 4th author non derm paper in undergrad and abstract/presentation.
Extracurriculars: pretty average, typical volunteer stuff.

I have no home derm department to fall back on. Is this enough to have a chance at matching somewhere? I have no location restrictions or preferences. Thanks in advance for any input!

You seem to be in a pretty good position med school-wise. AOA would help, but half of ppl that match aren't AOA.

The big problem is no home derm program. I don't mean to be conceited on Dermatology's part, but we're all rock stars on paper...thus it often comes down to whom you know. You would have to get in good with a program by doing aways, research projects, groveling, etc. ;) This would serve a two-fold purpose of having a chance to match at that program and also getting to know them well enough for them to be able to 'go to bat' for you.
 
How about graduating and then taking a year off to do a fellowship? Any thoughts?


Hey! I know of a great fellowship at MGH Harvard Derm program, known as the CURTIS fellowship - It is in need of a dedicated applicant to apply prior to the match (by February for funding purposes). Usually, the funding deadline is after the match, so its easy to find a great fellow who didn't match into derm. This year, the deadline is prior to the match, which means they need to find people to apply prior to the match...

So, if you will have an MD by June 2012 and may be taking a year off (think you may not match, thinking of switching into derm but was too late in the application process this year), then think about applying...can't hurt if you're interested in research!

The fellowship is a very strong one. I've included the link: http://www.massgeneral.org/dermatology/education/fellowship.aspx?id=153

Contact me if you're interested!
 
Hey, sorry to bother y'all. I am an M3 and just recently come to the conclusion that dermatology might be right for me. Just wanted to get some input about my chances of getting into a top 30 or so residency program.

Med school us news rank- 40 to 50
Usmle 1: 265
Basic Science Grades/Clinical Grades/AOA status- Will be Jr AOA soon, ranked #1 in class so far. Pretty much was high grade on every basic science module during the first 2 years. As far as clinical grades are concerned, honored all 3 rotations so far; still have yet to take medicine and surgery
Extracurriculars/volunteering: Pretty much nothing, a couple of health fairs here and there.
Research: Research is definitely not my thing, do not have any published papers at this point in any specialty. Only research I have done netted me a presentation at the national radiology conference, otherwise I have not done anything.

I know I like any research experience at this point, especially derm specific. Since I am already past the halfway point of 3rd year, any suggestions as to what I could do to boost this area of my application with such limited time left. Thanks y'all for ur help.
 
Any bother of applying with a CV of
1) School Rank-10-20
2) step 1 of 244
3) 3rd year: Honors in medicine, HP in surgery and roughly half Honors and HPs in the rest
4) Research: First author pub in Ortho and some presentations here and there.
5) can get decent letters
6) aways and connections? who knows.
Or would I have to blow step 2 out of the water?
 
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