Opinions on Ultrasound Machines - Sonosite M-Turbo vs GE Logiq e

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We're looking to buy another ultrasound machine here. I've used the M-Turbo but not the GE.

Anyone have any comments comparing them? Intended use would be PNBs and vascular access. No need to ever support TEE at this location.

M-Turbo would come with the HFL38 linear probe (6 - 13 MHz) and the enhanced needle visualization software.

Logiq e BT12 would come with the 12L-RS linear probe (5 - 13 MHz) and their advanced imaging pack software (cross beam imaging, b-steer, logiqview, easy 3D).

Overall quotes are roughly comparable.


Related question, on the Sonosite, impressions of the HFL50 vs HFL38 transducers?

Thanks.

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Sonosite is instant on. GE needs time to boot up. We have both. Everybody prefers sonosite. GE sits in the workroom unless somebody is already using the sonosite.

We have both transducers. They both have their advantages. If I could only have 1 I would pick the HFL50.
 
Agree with Nimbus. The GE certainly has more knobs, but for the basics, the Sonosite is actually better for its simplicity. Anecdotally, I find the image quality of the sonosite vastly superior, as well, even when the GE is set to its site-specific (e.g., vascular, nerve, etc) modes.

Oh, and I have never been too impressed with the needle software, or even echogenic needles. I find that if you put the needle in the right place, you can see it just fine. I'm not sure about your probe question, but I generally prefer the narrowest linear probe possible, particularly for supraclavicular blocks, which I do frequently.
 
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We're looking to buy another ultrasound machine here. I've used the M-Turbo but not the GE.

Anyone have any comments comparing them? Intended use would be PNBs and vascular access. No need to ever support TEE at this location.

M-Turbo would come with the HFL38 linear probe (6 - 13 MHz) and the enhanced needle visualization software.

Logiq e BT12 would come with the 12L-RS linear probe (5 - 13 MHz) and their advanced imaging pack software (cross beam imaging, b-steer, logiqview, easy 3D).

Overall quotes are roughly comparable.


Related question, on the Sonosite, impressions of the HFL50 vs HFL38 transducers?

Thanks.

Here is my take

boot up time is huge - you may not think it is a big deal, but it is. Even the rapid on of sonosite isn't fast enough sometimes. I would think hard about purchasing a machine that takes 3 minutes to turn on. I don't understand why a machine that does 1 thing, needs to boot like a Windows computer.

Knobology - GE has many knobs and many settings and the user can do many many things. You may think this is great - but it isn't. It actually sucks. The GE rep will come and set up the machine, and will place it on the patient and have an amazing picture. This only lasts a day, because the knobs get moved even slightly, and NO ONE in your department - I guarentee it - will be able to even come close to adjusting the picture to how the rep did. Sonosite has like 3 buttons.

Depth - GE looks beautiful with shallow structures, and when they demo, they make sure that you are looking at interscalene. It does very well. But anything beyond 2.5cm or so, it sucks. I think this is a big deal. If you do demo with GE, please make sure you look at deep things (infraclavicular, infragluteal sciatic - or mid thigh sciatic, etc.)

Ease of exporting pictures. Make sure you look at this. Our Logiq was extremely difficult to export images and it did it in a weird file format. They may have fixed this. Just make sure you demo exportation of pictures and video. Sonosite format is mp4. why the hell would any engineer do ANYTHING other than that - but nonetheless, GE decided it was a good idea to use something else, probably a proprietary format that you need software to look at it. Also, make sure it is very easy to capture video and decide if you think it makes sense in the way you capture the video.

Durability - sonosite is incredibly durable. It even looks water proof. I wonder if it is. You certainly could squirt your local on it and it probably wouldn't do anything. I bet you could drop it a bunch and it still would function. GE looks like an expensive laptop.

Screen size - if durability, ease of use, boot time, image quality aren't that big of a deal and you want a bigger screen size, I would pick the GE.


By the way, I have talked to GE engineers and the reps, and bitterly complained about boot time. There response is to say that 2-3 minutes isn't that big of a deal (so I guess I was the problem). Anyway, with that obtuse type of thinking, I hope they continue to loose significant market share.

The best picture of all is phillips, but that isn't a portable machine.
 
By the way, I have talked to GE engineers and the reps, and bitterly complained about boot time. There response is to say that 2-3 minutes isn't that big of a deal (so I guess I was the problem).

GE seems to have (at least historically?) a pretty big gap between the medical world and the people who design their machines. One time we had a monitor problem related to the BP cuffs, and the GE rep who came to the hosp thought it wasn't much of a problem because all patients having surgery would have arterial lines - say what?

I will say, though, it went a lot better when I ran into the GE reps at a conference. They at least seemed interested in getting a blunt assessment of what their machines could do better.
 
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Most Anesthesiologists prefer the Sonosite M Turbo over the Ge logiq by 3:1. The boot up time on the GE is incredibly long and the picture isn't much better. The Sonosite is SIMPLE AND EFFECTIVE technology. That said, I wouldn't mind one GE Logiq as long as there are many more Sonosite M Turbos available. I think the Ge Logiq works well for the deep, difficult blocks where the Knobs can be fine tuned to improve the picture. In addition, the use of a lower frequency probe like the 8C is great for deep blocks.

For your typical block or line the Sonosite Turbo is simply easier to use and preferred over the Ge.
 
We have both. Prefer sonosite. It is frustrating when you forget to plug the GE in and it shuts off in the middle of a block. Then must wait 3 min to boot it up.
 
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This is what we have In MICU, it's a GE venue 40. Has vascular probe and cardiac probe. Obviously I don't do blocks or. OB or any of that crap you guys do. But I love this machine. Turns on in <20sec. Probes are swapped out with a simple latch. Gives nice quality pic. Has to be plugged in for printer to work which I constantly forget. Great machine for most all critical care ultrasonography.
 
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The GE Venue is a solid, basic U/S machine. It boots up in less than 30 seconds and has only a few buttons for depth, freeze/print, auto picture optimization, etc.
I think the Venue is a good choice for those who want a simpler machine than the Sonosite M Turbo. If you can't acquire a Sonosite then buy the Venue especially for U/S guided line placement. However, the GE has very limited picture resolution at depths greater than 4 cm (max depth is 6cm but picture quality is lower) so for deep blocks the Sonosite is a better choice.
 
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Yeah I'm using it for lines, paracentesis, thoracentesis, bedside echo. It's fabulous for those. Probably not the best for the deep block anesthesia stuff.
 
We recently had the Sonosite Turbo and GE Venue for demo. Our group unanimously decided on the GE... much simpler and user-friendly.
 
Sonosite is instant on. GE needs time to boot up. We have both. Everybody prefers sonosite. GE sits in the workroom unless somebody is already using the sonosite.

We have both transducers. They both have their advantages. If I could only have 1 I would pick the HFL50.
Why HFL50 over HFL38? We are trying to buy one for our clinic and wanted to learn more about these 2 transducers? Thx
 
Why HFL50 over HFL38? We are trying to buy one for our clinic and wanted to learn more about these 2 transducers? Thx

The 50 is the one with 15 max freq, you get way better pictures. It is slightly bigger, but in hundreds to thousands of blocks nobody at my shop has had problems. Our sonosite rep actually tried to talk me out of the 50, because of the size and nobody getting it. I politely disagreed and am very happy. We have the 38 too, waste of $8000. Never gets used, and I should have gotten 2 of the 50s.

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Why HFL50 over HFL38? We are trying to buy one for our clinic and wanted to learn more about these 2 transducers? Thx

Simply because the 50 is wider with a wider field of view. You can see the needle approach earlier when doing in plane procedures.
 
The 50 is the one with 15 max freq, you get way better pictures. It is slightly bigger, but in hundreds to thousands of blocks nobody at my shop has had problems. Our sonosite rep actually tried to talk me out of the 50, because of the size and nobody getting it. I politely disagreed and am very happy. We have the 38 too, waste of $8000. Never gets used, and I should have gotten 2 of the 50s.

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I agree the 50 is a "better" probe but the 38 is more than adequate for the vast majority of blocks we perform on a daily basis. As for the higher frequency that really only comes into play for very superficial blocks less than 2 cm in depth which are usually easy to perform regardless of the probe used.
 
I agree the 50 is a "better" probe but the 38 is more than adequate for the vast majority of blocks we perform on a daily basis. As for the higher frequency that really only comes into play for very superficial blocks less than 2 cm in depth which are usually easy to perform regardless of the probe used.

You don't get skinny people down there?


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