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All your posts thus far have clarified one thing:

1. If you become a physician, you will kill a lot of patients if you continue your current thinking of "give 'em what they want"
2. There is no quality literature on the use of Cannibinoids for chronic pain
3. Marijuana is federally illegal so you cannot give it to yourself nor to your presumed future patients
4. You say you don't use any drugs yet have admitted to doing so when taking your friends illegal marijuana
5. You have zero medical experience and to claim "Using opioids out of a medical context isn't really that dangerous" is outright insane and proves how naive you are. Wait till your first night in the ER as a med student and you are running a code on a couple opioid overdoses per night on the weekends.

There is a massive, massive, difference between your perception of pain care and the realities that we see, all of us having had at a minimum 13 years of training doing this.

1. Thats your opinion.
2.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20073408
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12182960
and there is plenty of anecdotal evidence.
3. That depends on where you are.
4. Yes use, as in present tense.
5. The ER room is full of people waiting to get the alcohol pumped from their stomachs, that wouldn't support a claim that "alcohol is extremely dangerous" because the reality of the matter is, alcohol is only dangerous if used recklessly. The same thing applies to opioids. It may be easier to swallow some small tablets than it is to drink large volumes of liquid but opioids are safer (because they cause less cognitive impairment and sedation) than alcohol if used responsibly.

Also, these trips to the ER could be completely avoided if the patients had some narcan. A problem there is that to obtain it, they also have to go through doctors who most likely won't prescribe it because it is dangerous if used incorrectly. I'm not too good with words so I have trouble pointing out the flaws in your logic directly, instead I'll try and do it with analogies. Driving cars is dangerous. If done recklessly, it can result in your death, as well as the death of others. Does that mean people should be deprived of the right to drive by default? Imagine if you had to go through a person who may or may not give you a temporary drivers license depending on whether or not they think you need to drive or not, and whether you're responsible enough to drive. It seems absurd. Well the absurdity of the control of medication by doctors isn't far behind it. There should be a similar system where people have to pass a test to determine whether or not they are knowledgeable enough to be allowed to self medicate.

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We, the doctors that have been treating pain patients with opioids for decades would vehemently disagree with your uneducated undergraduate level unsupported premises about opioids. We are the ones with our licenses on the line, and if you have any doubts that licensure is not in jeopardy from prescribing opioids, look at the scrolling news "Doctors in Trouble" on the site www.indianapainsociety.org There have been hundreds of doctors that have either lost their license, ended up in jail, or face criminal charges for doing exactly what you espouse. Once you grow up and become a real doctor and have gone through residency and been out in practice for 5 years (all this will be approximately in the year 2027) then we can revisit this conversation.
 
He is either a troll or a ___. Either way, please stop feeding him. Deoxy, please go elsewhere, we are not buying what you are selling.
 
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He is either a troll or a ___. Either way, please stop feeding him. Deoxy, please go elsewhere, we are not buying what you are selling.

So you don't want any oxycodone? Alright, I'll take my sales pitch elsewhere.
 
He is either a troll or a ___. Either way, please stop feeding him. Deoxy, please go elsewhere, we are not buying what you are selling.

he is a troll, and i agree, his opinion bears no credibility in the least. anyone with any medical knowledge knows that narcan cannot be "self-administered". at least he isnt american, and god help us if he actually gets into college...

course, he might make a great CRNA...
 
Why do you guys answer this idiot. Can we please just ban him.
 
Why do you guys answer this idiot. Can we please just ban him.

Ban him? No way.

I'm just sittin' back eating popcorn watching the show. It's one of the better SDN flame wars in a while. Come on, man.
 
Who cares about the exponential rise in deaths over the last decade due to the misuse, self treatment of all that ails you through the use of opioids. I can't believe I didn't see the answer; it was so clear. Right in front of our eyes....NARCAN!!! If only all those unfortunate souls would've known about narcan. How stupid of me. This seriously needs to be considered in the new REMs, washington state guidelines and any other guideline that are in the works!!!! I'm excited!!! Hey deoxy..... don't forget to arm them with flumazenil. Oh oh oh and is there anything that reverses soma?? Surely you, the chemistry major, knows . :D[/COLOR][/COLOR]
 
Who cares about the exponential rise in deaths over the last decade due to the misuse, self treatment of all that ails you through the use of opioids. I can't believe I didn't see the answer; it was so clear. Right in front of our eyes....NARCAN!!! If only all those unfortunate souls would've known about narcan. How stupid of me. This seriously needs to be considered in the new REMs, washington state guidelines and any other guideline that are in the works!!!! I'm excited!!! Hey deoxy..... don't forget to arm them with flumazenil. Oh oh oh and is there anything that reverses soma?? Surely you, the chemistry major, knows . :D[/COLOR][/COLOR]

It's totally doable. Haven't you seen Pulp Fiction?
 
Actually there IS a test you can take to determine if you are knowledgeable enough to be allowed to medicate. It's called a DEA license and I have one.

You are welcome to apply for it yourself. You may find the prerequisites challenging.
 
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Actually there IS a test you can take to determine if you are knowledgeable enough to be allowed to medicate. It's called a DEA license and I have one.

You are welcome to apply for it yourself. You may find the prerequisites challenging.

I thought you had to be a doctor? Ope! That's not needed anymore either!
 
It's totally doable. Haven't you seen Pulp Fiction?

Yes, from the highly educated Hollywood minds who suggested that a direct cardiac injection of "adrenaline" is the preferred antidote for snorting heroin........

Maybe some of the self-assured hollywood screenwriters feel they're qualified to dose the narcan they keep by the bed for overdoses (of any drug), because they passed high school chemistry, just like our self assured poster
 
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Do all these Pulp Fiction references mean Deoxyribose is actually the GIMP?
 
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I thought she found Vega's heroin in his coat pocket and then snorted his heroin, which "caused" her problem, because her normal cocaine snorting was just fine....

She thought it was cocaine. But was not....she snorted horse
 
he is a troll, and i agree, his opinion bears no credibility in the least. anyone with any medical knowledge knows that narcan cannot be "self-administered". at least he isnt american, and god help us if he actually gets into college...

course, he might make a great CRNA...

I have better things to do with my time than "troll". I'm already in college, I'll have a BSc in chemistry by the end of the year then if I decide to, I'll get into medical school no problem as I'm going to finish this degree with a 1.1. Narcan CAN be self administered but someone who is so intoxicated that they are at risk of dying of respiratory depression probably won't bother to do so, so there has to be someone else around to do it. For opinions that bear no credibility, strange that with the exception of one or two posters who mentioned the fact that the DEA are the ones making the rules, nobody here has been able to make a single refuting argument.

Hey deoxy..... don't forget to arm them with flumazenil. Oh oh oh and is there anything that reverses soma?? Surely you, the chemistry major, knows . :D[/COLOR][/COLOR]
Flumazenil for what? Benzodiazepines aren't the easiest drug to overdose on, if someone manages to do it then they either have a death wish, or are so reckless they are going to kill themselves one way or another. As for carisoprodol, I'm sure a barbiturate antagonist would significantly attenuate the effects.

Long-term benzodiazepine users should have access to flumazenil as it has been shown to reverse (at least temporarily) protracted withdrawal symptoms.

Actually there IS a test you can take to determine if you are knowledgeable enough to be allowed to medicate. It's called a DEA license and I have one.

You are welcome to apply for it yourself. You may find the prerequisites challenging.
I said self medicate.

Maybe some of the self-assured hollywood screenwriters feel they're qualified to dose the narcan they keep by the bed for overdoses (of any drug), because they passed high school chemistry, just like our self assured poster
Believe it or not, normal people can and do successfully administer narcan. Watch this:
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/drugs-inc-heroin/
and you'll see an ex-junkie administering it to overdosees (yeah I made that word up to avoid verbosity).

Do all these Pulp Fiction references mean Deoxyribose is actually the GIMP?
If you're gonna try making a joke, it has to at least make some sense.

She thought it was cocaine. But was not....she snorted horse
Yeah, she mistook it for cocaine (which is a tricky thing to do considering heroin is generally brown, unless its a synthetic such as alpha-methyl fentanyl which is sold as heroin, i.e. china white) and ingested an overdose (since a single dose of cocaine takes a much larger volume of powder) then her nose mysteriously bleeds (the dealer must have cut the H with glass because thats not an opioid overdose symptom). Believe it or not, a shot of adrenaline would actually counteract the respiratory depression. I don't know about injecting it into the heart though, I think an intravenous injection would suffice lol.
 
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Narcan is used for home administration for heroin addicts, not in clinical medicine. Huge difference, but it is not surprising that a narcotic hugging undergrad would not know the difference. Narcan used at home in clinical medicine means the physician prescribing is far overmedicating and should be subject to medical board action- something an undergraduate would know nothing about. When you grow up someday (hopefully), come back when you have gone to medical school and have a clue. Otherwise go back to your theoretical chemistry tests and undergraduate finals and leave clinical medicine to those who do know what they are doing.
 
Narcan is used for home administration for heroin addicts, not in clinical medicine. Huge difference, but it is not surprising that a narcotic hugging undergrad would not know the difference. Narcan used at home in clinical medicine means the physician prescribing is far overmedicating and should be subject to medical board action- something an undergraduate would know nothing about. When you grow up someday (hopefully), come back when you have gone to medical school and have a clue. Otherwise go back to your theoretical chemistry tests and undergraduate finals and leave clinical medicine to those who do know what they are doing.

You're saying naloxone isn't used clinically to treat opioid overdoses? This is the very thing I was talking about. You are incapable of thinking pharmacologically.
 
You're saying naloxone isn't used clinically to treat opioid overdoses? This is the very thing I was talking about. You are incapable of thinking pharmacologically.

you are misquoting algos, and you do not understand clinical pharmacology. this makes sense since you are an almost chemistry major. Narcan has a relatively short half-life. it is primarily given intravenously because of gastrointestinal first pass effect.

it is available as a nasal spray, primarily for the caretakers of heroin addicts. someone who is OD'ing on heroin will not be awake enough or cognitively aware enough to know that they need to rescue themselves.

and there is significant disincentive from using narcan on yourself - it causes horrible wicked excruciatingly painful withdrawal symptoms and possible seizures.

Narcan is not prescribed for non-addicts. im sure the DEA would have a lot of questions if any non-addictionologist prescribed this, and it is catamount to the prescriber admitting they are prescribing a dose that will invariably lead to death.


finally, demonstrating your limited knowledge of heroin - the color is dependent on the manufacturer. you are thinking of the black tar, from mexico. heroin can come anywhere from white to tan to brown to black color, depending on manufacturing.
 
I have a better solution than prescribing self-administered narcan:

It's called "Less (or better yet, no) opiates."
 
Long-term benzodiazepine users should have access to flumazenil as it has been shown to reverse (at least temporarily) protracted withdrawal symptoms.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. The above you cribbed directly from Wikipedia (from here). However, no EM (or A&E) doc in any nation (I don't know where you are, but I know you're not in Canada or the US; you speak of honors, but not O or A levels, and you don't use UK English, so it is less likely you're in the UK, and you speak of Euros, but seems to have a handle on idiosyncratic American English, so I am thinking you are an American abroad, maybe in Ireland) is going to give flumazenil to any patient on chronic benzodiazepines. That is black letter teaching from toxicology, where, if flumazenil is given to the chronic BZD user, and that user seizes, they're dead. Flumazenil can precipit intractible seizures which are resistant to any interventions, and there are only two outcomes: spontaneous resolution, and death. Any doctor (damn us, in your eyes) can paint you a picture of a patient that is alive after status epilepticus, and it is a gory one.

As for Wikipedia and flumazenil, here is a quote for you: "It is contraindicated in patients who are on long-term benzodiazepines, those who have ingested a substance that lowers the seizure threshold, or in patients who have tachycardia, widened QRS complex on ECG, anticholinergic signs, or a history of seizures.[45] Due to these contraindications and the possibility of it causing severe adverse effects including seizures, adverse cardiac effects, and death,[46][47] in the majority of cases there is no indication for the use of flumazenil in the management of benzodiazepine overdose as the risks in general outweigh any potential benefit of administration.[3][42] It also has no role in the management of an unknown overdose.[5][44] In addition, if full airway protection has been achieved, a good outcome is expected, and therefore flumazenil administration is unlikely to be required.[48]" (My emphasis added)

From here.
 
Yeah, she mistook it for cocaine (which is a tricky thing to do considering heroin is generally brown, unless its a synthetic such as alpha-methyl fentanyl which is sold as heroin, i.e. china white) and ingested an overdose (since a single dose of cocaine takes a much larger volume of powder) then her nose mysteriously bleeds (the dealer must have cut the H with glass because thats not an opioid overdose symptom). Believe it or not, a shot of adrenaline would actually counteract the respiratory depression. I don't know about injecting it into the heart though, I think an intravenous injection would suffice lol.

i forgot about this one... there is just so much wrong in his posts...

again, heroin is many different colors, and white is not uncommon.

heroin is a synthetic opioid. it was first discovered in 1874. fentanyl is also a synthetic opioid. heroin is always a narcotic. fentanyl... well, it is not a Schedule 1 drug... but misused it is a narcotic.

a shot of "adrenaline" will not counteract the respiratory depression from a narcotic such as heroin. Heroin causes mu-opioid agonist based respiratory depression. adrenaline, or epinephrine in the US, acts on adrenergic system. it will not counteract the depression in respiratory rate.
 
I am sure some of you know about opiophile.org. I read it once in a while and I am honestly shocked at the sort of things people do (It is helping me clinically because nothing really surprises me anymore)
An example
http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?41056-Guess-who-just-got-their-first-bottle-of-oxyfast!!!

I am honestly never going to prescribe Opiates for longer than 2 weeks.

I changed my practice after reading something from this website (which you guys pointed me too many posts ago).

Basically, it says that Nucynta has ZERO street value. It was then that I decided that it was the drug I wanted to use the most (of the opioid variety).
 
I changed my practice after reading something from this website (which you guys pointed me too many posts ago).

Basically, it says that Nucynta has ZERO street value. It was then that I decided that it was the drug I wanted to use the most (of the opioid variety).

Good point. It does make you feel better about prescribing it.
 
This is deoxyribose, I'm not gonna argue anymore cuz I don't wanna get banned again, just felt the need to clear a few things up:

you are misquoting algos, and you do not understand clinical pharmacology. this makes sense since you are an almost chemistry major.
I spend much of my spare time learning so I learn far more than what my college course covers. I have a decent understanding of pharmacological theory, which many doctors I have talked to seem to lack.

finally, demonstrating your limited knowledge of heroin - the color is dependent on the manufacturer. you are thinking of the black tar, from mexico. heroin can come anywhere from white to tan to brown to black color, depending on manufacturing.
Heroin manufactured from opium is rarely, if ever white due to the presence of additional alkaloids and impurities. Synthetic opioids such as fentanyl analogues are sold as heroin on the streets, its generally called china white. Black tar is manufactured by acetylating crude opium, whereas the lighter colored powders are produced by acetylating alkaloid extracts, the more pure the extract, the lighter the colour but its very rare that you'll see white heroin on the streets because its not economically viable to produce.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. The above you cribbed directly from Wikipedia...
I didn't quote wikipedia, these are simply the facts. I said "protracted" withdrawal symptoms as in post-acute withdrawal symptoms. Flumazenil blocks BZ sites so will induce an acute withdrawal if administered to someone who is physically dependant on BZ agonists. People who have been off the BZ agonists for at least a month on the other hand benefit greatly from flumazenil. There was a clinical study done in the 80's I think it was, I'll try dig it up.

EDIT: Here it is: http://www.bcnc.org.uk/flumazenil.html

However, no EM (or A&E) doc in any nation (I don't know where you are, but I know you're not in Canada or the US; you speak of honors, but not O or A levels, and you don't use UK English, so it is less likely you're in the UK, and you speak of Euros, but seems to have a handle on idiosyncratic American English, so I am thinking you are an American abroad, maybe in Ireland...
I like to make myself completely undoxable on the internet which is why I intentionally use both American and British spellings so people can't pinpoint where I'm from. You made a good deduction though so I'll tell you, I'm in Ireland.

again, heroin is many different colors, and white is not uncommon.

heroin is a synthetic opioid. it was first discovered in 1874. fentanyl is also a synthetic opioid. heroin is always a narcotic. fentanyl... well, it is not a Schedule 1 drug... but misused it is a narcotic.

a shot of "adrenaline" will not counteract the respiratory depression from a narcotic such as heroin. Heroin causes mu-opioid agonist based respiratory depression. adrenaline, or epinephrine in the US, acts on adrenergic system. it will not counteract the depression in respiratory rate.
The heroin commonly sold on the streets is a semi-synthetic opioid produced by acetylation of papaver somniferum extracts. It is never bleach white like cocaine because it is not economically viable to purify the precursors or product to that extent. If you have seen white "heroin", I can guarantee you it was a synthetic opioid sold as heroin. Many people have overdosed on china white as a result of the fact that, when manufacturing an ultra potent synthetic opioid such as alpha methyl fentanyl, its economically viable for the manufacturers to sell smaller masses with higher potencies.

As for respiratory depression, theres large flaw in your logic. Non opioid CNS stimulants counteract the CNS depressant effects of opioid agonists. Adrenaline induces hyperventilation and consequently, it counteracts the hypoventilation induced by mu opioid agonists. The term for this is physiological antagonism, its just one of numerous forms of non competetive antagonism. What you said is kind of like saying ACE inhibitors can't counteract adrenergic vasoconstriction because they don't block a1 receptors. At least you're thinking pharmacologically though, my respect goes to you for that. There are plenty of things I would do differently (assuming I would not lose my license as a result) if I were a doctor, due to my understanding of the pharmacology behind the drugs prescribed. For instance, if I prescribed opioid analgesics, I would co-prescribe methylnaltrexone to counteract the constipation which can be a serious side effect of opioids. Methylnatrexone is a potent mu opioid antagonist but it does not cross the BBB, therefore it counteracts the gastrointestinal effects of the opioid agonist, without interfering with the analgesia.

EDIT: I looked it up and found out that they do use methylnaltrexone for opioid induced constipation in cases where conventional laxative treatment fails so what I said there isn't anything new.

The word narcotic is just silly. As silly as this arbitrary scheduling system. If fentanyl is not always a narcotic (again, thats a silly word that should has no place in the modern world), then the same goes for heroin. Diacetyl morphine is prescribed as an analgesic in some countries (i.e. Germany), similar to fentanyl.
 
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This is deoxyribose, I'm not gonna argue anymore cuz I don't wanna get banned again, just felt the need to clear a few things up:


I spend much of my spare time learning so I learn far more than what my college course covers. I have a decent understanding of pharmacological theory, which many doctors I have talked to seem to lack.


Heroin manufactured from opium is rarely, if ever white due to the presence of additional alkaloids and impurities. Synthetic opioids such as fentanyl analogues are sold as heroin on the streets, its generally called china white. Black tar is manufactured by acetylating crude opium, whereas the lighter colored powders are produced by acetylating alkaloid extracts, the more pure the extract, the lighter the colour but its very rare that you'll see white heroin on the streets because its not economically viable to produce.


I didn't quote wikipedia, these are simply the facts. I said "protracted" withdrawal symptoms as in post-acute withdrawal symptoms. Flumazenil blocks BZ sites so will induce an acute withdrawal if administered to someone who is physically dependant on BZ agonists. People who have been off the BZ agonists for at least a month on the other hand benefit greatly from flumazenil. There was a clinical study done in the 80's I think it was, I'll try dig it up.

EDIT: Here it is: http://www.bcnc.org.uk/flumazenil.html


I like to make myself completely undoxable on the internet which is why I intentionally use both American and British spellings so people can't pinpoint where I'm from. You made a good deduction though so I'll tell you, I'm in Ireland.


The heroin commonly sold on the streets is a semi-synthetic opioid produced by acetylation of papaver somniferum extracts. It is never bleach white like cocaine because it is not economically viable to purify the precursors or product to that extent. If you have seen white "heroin", I can guarantee you it was a synthetic opioid sold as heroin. Many people have overdosed on china white as a result of the fact that, when manufacturing an ultra potent synthetic opioid such as alpha methyl fentanyl, its economically viable for the manufacturers to sell smaller masses with higher potencies.

As for respiratory depression, theres large flaw in your logic. Non opioid CNS stimulants counteract the CNS depressant effects of opioid agonists. Adrenaline induces hyperventilation and consequently, it counteracts the hypoventilation induced by mu opioid agonists. The term for this is physiological antagonism, its just one of numerous forms of non competetive antagonism. What you said is kind of like saying ACE inhibitors can't counteract adrenergic vasoconstriction because they don't block a1 receptors. At least you're thinking pharmacologically though, my respect goes to you for that. There are plenty of things I would do differently (assuming I would not lose my license as a result) if I were a doctor, due to my understanding of the pharmacology behind the drugs prescribed. For instance, if I prescribed opioid analgesics, I would co-prescribe methylnaltrexone to counteract the constipation which can be a serious side effect of opioids. Methylnatrexone is a potent mu opioid antagonist but it does not cross the BBB, therefore it counteracts the gastrointestinal effects of the opioid agonist, without interfering with the analgesia.

EDIT: I looked it up and found out that they do use methylnaltrexone for opioid induced constipation in cases where conventional laxative treatment fails so what I said there isn't anything new.

The word narcotic is just silly. As silly as this arbitrary scheduling system. Fentanyl is far more dangerous than heroin and has just as much, if not greater abuse potential. Diacetyl morphine is prescribed in some countries (i.e. Germany), similar to fentanyl.

banned once should be banned, not allowed to come on under a different name.

the problem is, you do not understand the pharmacology involved. thats one of the things doctors learn in medical school.


1. China white is NOT fentanyl. it is more pure heroin. ask some opiophiles who know. http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79023

2. There is a reason that noone is talking about using flumazenil for benzo withdrawal - even protracted withdrawal. the study has not been reproduced and therefore has no role in clinical medicine.

3. The pharmacologic effects of cocaine - minutes. The pharmacologic effects of opioids - hours. How pray tell will cocaine reverse the respiratory depression of opioids, even given your flawed argument about cocaine antagonizing opioids??

4. Non-opioid CNS agents will not "counteract" an opioid effect. there may be two conflicting forces at play, but there is no "counteraction" - there is an opioid effect, and there may be an epinephrine effect.

5. btw, any physiologic increase in respiratory rate with sympathomimetic use such as cocaine is not a major contributor.

6. fentanyl is probably used far more frequently than heroin with less risk of death - because it is used responsibly daily by anesthesiologists for anesthesia. you are confusing potency with danger. in legal use, methadone is far more dangerous.


theres more but hopefully you will learn them some day before you kill someone....
 
The other major cultural issue is that the Irish undergraduate hasn't a clue about American culture nor will most likely become an American doctor. Therefore conversation about these issues are pointless. Obviously Irish undergrads have a very different view about prescription opioids than do American doctors that are fighting the wars of overprescribing, drug addiction, and death that are just now beginning to recede in America. We have been there and done that, and are now finding a more rational moderate view in treating of pain. Our discourse with each other is interlaced with 3rd parties that would impose governmental rules and regulations that may curtail the prescribing in pain clinics, but do little to eradicate the massive number of deaths each year. As we grow more sophisticated in our understanding of causation, it becomes apparent that a simple minded approach of restricting opioids by a pre set milligram amount will not necessarily lead to fewer deaths. Adjunct medications with sedating properties will be substituted for opioids, leading to maintenance of a relative high death rate. Our pain patients that suffer the most pain are prescribed the most adjunct meds already, and reducing opioids to an amount that is 1/3 the amount they take now and adding more adjunct meds may have counteracting effects. I am seeing autopsy reports of people taking 40mg hydrocodone per day but also taking a truck load of non-opioid adjunct meds that ultimately result in death.
America certainly does not need the free wheeling policies of opioid availability that we have had over the past 15 years, but we also need reduce the prescribing of benzodiazepines, anticonvulsants, muscle relaxants, sedatives, antipsychotics, antidepressants, promethazine, diphenhydramine, and all other sedating drugs. The vast majority die at night after taking a whopping dose of sedatives and antidepressants prescribed by none other than their own physician. This needs to stop, and the American public retrained to avoid going to more and more doctors, picking up 1-2 new pills at each stop. America would be far healthier if their doctors did not feel compelled to prescribe something for everyone on every visit. And there would be less deaths errantly attributed solely to opioids.
 
Can we please just ban this loon!!???!??




QUOTE=Ampakine;13434240]This is deoxyribose, I'm not gonna argue anymore cuz I don't wanna get banned again, just felt the need to clear a few things up:


I spend much of my spare time learning so I learn far more than what my college course covers. I have a decent understanding of pharmacological theory, which many doctors I have talked to seem to lack.


Heroin manufactured from opium is rarely, if ever white due to the presence of additional alkaloids and impurities. Synthetic opioids such as fentanyl analogues are sold as heroin on the streets, its generally called china white. Black tar is manufactured by acetylating crude opium, whereas the lighter colored powders are produced by acetylating alkaloid extracts, the more pure the extract, the lighter the colour but its very rare that you'll see white heroin on the streets because its not economically viable to produce.


I didn't quote wikipedia, these are simply the facts. I said "protracted" withdrawal symptoms as in post-acute withdrawal symptoms. Flumazenil blocks BZ sites so will induce an acute withdrawal if administered to someone who is physically dependant on BZ agonists. People who have been off the BZ agonists for at least a month on the other hand benefit greatly from flumazenil. There was a clinical study done in the 80's I think it was, I'll try dig it up.

EDIT: Here it is: http://www.bcnc.org.uk/flumazenil.html


I like to make myself completely undoxable on the internet which is why I intentionally use both American and British spellings so people can't pinpoint where I'm from. You made a good deduction though so I'll tell you, I'm in Ireland.


The heroin commonly sold on the streets is a semi-synthetic opioid produced by acetylation of papaver somniferum extracts. It is never bleach white like cocaine because it is not economically viable to purify the precursors or product to that extent. If you have seen white "heroin", I can guarantee you it was a synthetic opioid sold as heroin. Many people have overdosed on china white as a result of the fact that, when manufacturing an ultra potent synthetic opioid such as alpha methyl fentanyl, its economically viable for the manufacturers to sell smaller masses with higher potencies.

As for respiratory depression, theres large flaw in your logic. Non opioid CNS stimulants counteract the CNS depressant effects of opioid agonists. Adrenaline induces hyperventilation and consequently, it counteracts the hypoventilation induced by mu opioid agonists. The term for this is physiological antagonism, its just one of numerous forms of non competetive antagonism. What you said is kind of like saying ACE inhibitors can't counteract adrenergic vasoconstriction because they don't block a1 receptors. At least you're thinking pharmacologically though, my respect goes to you for that. There are plenty of things I would do differently (assuming I would not lose my license as a result) if I were a doctor, due to my understanding of the pharmacology behind the drugs prescribed. For instance, if I prescribed opioid analgesics, I would co-prescribe methylnaltrexone to counteract the constipation which can be a serious side effect of opioids. Methylnatrexone is a potent mu opioid antagonist but it does not cross the BBB, therefore it counteracts the gastrointestinal effects of the opioid agonist, without interfering with the analgesia.

EDIT: I looked it up and found out that they do use methylnaltrexone for opioid induced constipation in cases where conventional laxative treatment fails so what I said there isn't anything new.

The word narcotic is just silly. As silly as this arbitrary scheduling system. If fentanyl is not always a narcotic (again, thats a silly word that should has no place in the modern world), then the same goes for heroin. Diacetyl morphine is prescribed as an analgesic in some countries (i.e. Germany), similar to fentanyl.[/QUOTE]
 
1. China white is NOT fentanyl. it is more pure heroin. ask some opiophiles who know. http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79023
I wouldn't consider people on drugs-forum as in the know lol. Half the people on that thread are of the opinion that China White is used to refer to fentanyl.

3. The pharmacologic effects of cocaine - minutes. The pharmacologic effects of opioids - hours. How pray tell will cocaine reverse the respiratory depression of opioids, even given your flawed argument about cocaine antagonizing opioids??
I used cocaine as an example. I could have just as easily said amphetamine which lasts longer than most opioids. Tell me then, whats flawed about my argument?

4. Non-opioid CNS agents will not "counteract" an opioid effect. there may be two conflicting forces at play, but there is no "counteraction" - there is an opioid effect, and there may be an epinephrine effect.
Yes they will, believe it or not. If one drug causes vasoconstriction and the other causes vasodilation, then they each counteract that particular effect of one another. Its silly that you're even arguing this.

5. btw, any physiologic increase in respiratory rate with sympathomimetic use such as cocaine is not a major contributor.
What??

6. fentanyl is probably used far more frequently than heroin with less risk of death - because it is used responsibly daily by anesthesiologists for anesthesia. you are confusing potency with danger. in legal use, methadone is far more dangerous.
The things you say are becoming increasingly silly. Fentanyl does not come with less risk of death. It is less available on the street, that is the only reason that there are less reported overdoses. Not to mention the fact that overdoses caused by street fentanyl and related analogues are recorded as heroin overdoses because the users do not know that what they are taking is a fentanyl analogue.

What makes an opioid dangerous? Abuse potential? If so, then methadone is not more dangerous because it has less abuse potential than fentanyl since it lacks the rush, attributed to other opioids including fentanyl.
 
You can ban him 50 times but he can pop up 100 more with different screen names, which he will do until you ignore him. Interneting 101.



:troll:
 
You can ban him 50 times but he can pop up 100 more with different screen names, which he will do until you ignore him. Interneting 101.



:troll:

Yes u are right. His initial posts suggested he had some glimmer of intelligence, but the last 2 posts illustrate the minimal knowledge he has. I give up. Cant teach a rock...

Unfortunately, he just show up again under another name if banned again.
 
Yea, drug addicts are just filthy sub-humanoids who not only DO NOT deserve to be treated as a human being in help, but also DESERVE our undeniable rage and any afflictions that come across their path. I can't wait until the various anti-narcotic vaccinations make it out of clinical testing and into anyone who wants to go to public school.
Think about it like we are the Jews being persecuted by those Nazi-ass junkies.

Sorry but your a ***** who doesnt deserve to be practicing.....

Not all people are like that and when you treat all people like that you turn them in to it!

yeah im leaving this forum its people who think like some of you do that make this world hell to live in. Thats why i wish my chiropractor/ND went for his MD and prescribed pain meds atleast i could be honest with him and say I wanna wean down off of my pills for now they arent helping or i need a higher dose ect....

this forum makes me sick ull all burn in hell for what you do to people
 
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When it comes to harm reduction whats better in your opinion.

Weather or not the person is using opiates to get high is irrelevant.

A person is on opiates, he uses a high dose because of chronic pain among other things, gets high, enjoys life, works ect...

a doctor denys him opiates and he kills himself because life is hopeless for him. Lets keep in mind the person has tried nearly all other methods told to him by doctors.

This person has tried suboxone and methadone and it doesnt do it for him, No SSRIs or other meds can provide him joy in his life like other people experience without drugs?

WHO THE **** MADE YOU GOD AND ALLOWS YOU TO TAKE THE JOY OUT OF SOMEONES LIFE ESPECIALLY IF IT IS NOT HIS FAULT?


im curious how would you feel if it was your son or daughter in this situation, i bet anything you would proscribe them the meds instead of watching them kill themself when it can be easily remedied.


All pain doctors should have to experience long and on going severe pain to be come a doctor, they should also have to have chemical imbalances in their brain which causes severe ahedonia which only benefits for some reason from opiates.
 
Oh and read the Declaration of Independence

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

IF MY PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS INCLUDES TAKING OPIATES AND I DONT HARM ANYONE IN THE DOING OF IT IT IS NOT YOU ****ING PLACE TO TELL ME OR 100000s OF OTHER AMERICANS THEY CANNOT DO IT!
 
ok darth. then get your opiates from snoop johnson down by the rail road tracks and not from a doctor's office.
 
Sorry but your a *****

The irony is staggering (well, not really).

You (or anyone else) can get their drugs from whomever they choose; however, in their pursuit of happiness, they should also be aware of the illegal nature of procuring from unlicensed providers, and that strong regulation does exist, and there is rationale for such oversight.

In other words, get it from snoop johnson down by the railroad tracks; just don't be surprised when you are arrested, convicted, and sent to jail, where you don't get anything for your "anhedonia". Bummer!
 
The DEA tells me i need to prescribe appropriately. I do not prescribe to people who are looking to get high, so that I can continue to prescribe to those patients that truly need opioid pain meds.
 
ahedonia which only benefits... from opiates.

There is no opiate that is FDA approved for anhedonia. There is no medical textbook that recommends treating anhedonia with opiates.

Therefore, according to the DEA, it's illegal for us to prescribe opiates for anhedonia. If we do so, we lose our lives and go to jail.

Go b!tch to your Congressman or the DEA. Don't troll Pain physician forums criticizing us for not committing felonies.
 
Our opioid posts are like fly paper:)

Thank god for PROP.
 
If the pain interferes with their ability to live, then yeah they need analgesics. Only the patient knows whether the benefits outweigh the risks, but good luck to them convincing a doctor that they do.
Presumably the patient understands the risks/benefits from their extensive friend network...
 
I am sure some of you know about opiophile.org. I read it once in a while and I am honestly shocked at the sort of things people do (It is helping me clinically because nothing really surprises me anymore)
An example
http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?41056-Guess-who-just-got-their-first-bottle-of-oxyfast!!!

I am honestly never going to prescribe Opiates for longer than 2 weeks.

You know what I'd always like to ask MDs? Why do you care if a patient wants to stuff themselves with opiates??? Do you HONESTLY care about that patient on a personal level? Are you going to go home at night and worry about him/her? Do you concern yourself with how much alcohol they consume or whether they put tattoos on their bodies or get their ears pierced or wear their seatbelts? Are you going to phone that patient at home to check on him/her? Are you even going to think about that patient a single time after they leave your office? No, you aren't. Seriously. And you know it. (And, yes, I am a real psych student, not a "junkie," although I do love how you "professional healthcare providers" talk about/label your would-be pts.)

What med school is clearly failing to emphasize is the treatment and follow up of patients on a psychological level. There is as much (or more) psychological pain in the healthcare world as there is physical pain, and we are beginning, in fact, to learn that the two are very often linked; psych pain can manifest physically. Ever see the Cymbalta commercials? But you guys get a patient who is in psychological pain, is seeking attention or medication by going to the ED (those "frequent fliers" you all love so much), has hurt themselves in some way (boy, do those patients get treated nicely!), and you begrudgingly treat them to whatever extent they need or that you are willing/forced to by law, and then pass them off to Psych or blow them off entirely.

My biggest beef with the physical healthcare world is the highly virulent level of opiophobia, the stigma and judgment and distrust of ALL pain management patients, the change in tone and demeanor, the palpable shift in energy in the exam room when a patient asks a doctor if they can have "x" medication - not because they are an addict, not because they are a dealer, not because they are "seeking," not because they want party favors for this weekend's bash, but because they have researched the medication or taken the medication before, and IT WORKED.

Doctors need to STOP this reactionary behavior, these automatic assumptions, this red-flagging of patients based solely on the fact that they are either taking narcotic medication, or requesting it. At least in terms of how you think, it's time for doctors to return to the bygone era of house calls and bedside manner, as depicted in Norman Rockwell paintings, and actually practice medicine. Screen patients. Talk to them. Find out why they want or feel they need that medication. Ask whether they've taken it before, and for how long, and for what reason. MOST OF ALL, understand that not every patient responds to the same medications, in the same doses, the same way. Someone mentioned the P450 enzymes in this thread; that's an excellent point. Not every patient is going to have the same hepatic level of CYP2D6 or 2C19. Go back to the books. There are poor metabolizers, intermediate metabolizers, and rapid or ultrarapid metabolizers. Up to 7% of Caucasians may demonstrate ultrarapid drug metabolism because of inherited alleles with multiplicate functional CYP2D6 genes, causing an increased amount of enzyme to be expressed. Identification of UM subjects is of potential clinical importance for adjustment of doses in drug therapy, as well as to avoid misidentification of noncompliance (1). Test your patients' enzymatic levels with a simple swab. Also, take into consideration that which you learned in med school - that every patient has a different number of receptors in the brain. Some pts have less, some have more, and in those cases the patient will respond differently, often to a much lesser degree, to standard doses of narcotic medications.

Start with a 2 week script if that's what it takes to build trust and identify a particular patient's needs. Make them visit a psychologist first if that helps build trust (that might weed out a few of the dishonest ones). Then monitor the patient to the extent that you can by using UA drug screens and seeing if they call for refills early. See them again in 2 weeks and discuss the efficacy of the medication, the extent of their pain relief, how often they are using/needing the med, etc. If they are compliant, extend their script for another 2 weeks or 4 weeks. And so on. Put a little TIME into it. Be a doctor! Most of all, put a little faith into patients. Because not all of them are lying or seeking, and those that are truly in need - statistically, as many as 95% of them - are not going to abuse their pain medications.

(1) http://www.clinchem.org/content/44/5/914.long
 
Opioids ARE used outside of a medical context at least in 35% of those prescribed the drug. Over 50% of those that overdose and die from opioids are due to stupid people that get drugs for free from so called "friends", and believe opioids are ok for non-medical usage. No one has a right to opioids for any reason whatsoever, even for terminal cancer pain, if they cannot control their use of the prescription opioids in a prescribed manner, if they give away drugs, sell the drugs. Physicians absolutely cannot and will not permit themselves to be agents of death for those that lack control over their use of the drugs. There are 20,000 people overdosing and dying every year from prescription opioids....that is an entire moderate size city wiped out every year because of drug abuse. We will take whatever steps we feel is necessary to protect the public from themselves, even if it perceived as torture by the ignorant that care only about themselves and don't give a damn about the 20,000 per year that meet their demise due to opioids.

It isn't up to you to protect other human beings from themselves. That God Complex is something with which you are ingrained in med school. This is a country in which we are all free to do as we please with our own bodies. Abortion is legal. Alcohol is legal. Pot is becoming legal. Smoking is legal. Vaping is legal. Getting tattoos is legal. Getting pierced is legal. Riding motorcycles without helmets is legal. A plethora of dangerous things are legal. Are you going to follow your patient around in his daily life and see to it that he doesn't harm himself? Of course not. And your predictable argument of "doing what you can" is silly when taken into consideration how very insignificant your part is in a patient's life. Doctors can't keep patients from the substances they want. And even when one substance isn't available, there is another that is. All of this tight fisting of prescription medications is doing nothing but creating a huge black market, not to mention a pandemic of backyard chemists.
 
We have a legal responsibility to avoid prescribing that leads to death. Yes you can put whatever you want in your body but if I find substances in my mandatory urine drug testing that are illegal or you obtained prescription controlled substances illegally (taking non prescribed controlled subtances) or alcohol I will immediately and forever stop prescribing controlled substances, notify all used pharmacies and other physicians of such behavior, and when appropriate will notify the DEA and local narcotics police squads. Then you want to OD and die using heroin, go for it. It's your body. It is also my license to prescribe.
 
You know what I'd always like to ask MDs? Why do you care if a patient wants to stuff themselves with opiates??? Do you HONESTLY care about that patient on a personal level? Are you going to go home at night and worry about him/her? Do you concern yourself with how much alcohol they consume or whether they put tattoos on their bodies or get their ears pierced or wear their seatbelts? Are you going to phone that patient at home to check on him/her? Are you even going to think about that patient a single time after they leave your office? No, you aren't. Seriously. And you know it. (And, yes, I am a real psych student, not a "junkie," although I do love how you "professional healthcare providers" talk about/label your would-be pts.)

What med school is clearly failing to emphasize is the treatment and follow up of patients on a psychological level. There is as much (or more) psychological pain in the healthcare world as there is physical pain, and we are beginning, in fact, to learn that the two are very often linked; psych pain can manifest physically. Ever see the Cymbalta commercials? But you guys get a patient who is in psychological pain, is seeking attention or medication by going to the ED (those "frequent fliers" you all love so much), has hurt themselves in some way (boy, do those patients get treated nicely!), and you begrudgingly treat them to whatever extent they need or that you are willing/forced to by law, and then pass them off to Psych or blow them off entirely.

My biggest beef with the physical healthcare world is the highly virulent level of opiophobia, the stigma and judgment and distrust of ALL pain management patients, the change in tone and demeanor, the palpable shift in energy in the exam room when a patient asks a doctor if they can have "x" medication - not because they are an addict, not because they are a dealer, not because they are "seeking," not because they want party favors for this weekend's bash, but because they have researched the medication or taken the medication before, and IT WORKED.

Doctors need to STOP this reactionary behavior, these automatic assumptions, this red-flagging of patients based solely on the fact that they are either taking narcotic medication, or requesting it. At least in terms of how you think, it's time for doctors to return to the bygone era of house calls and bedside manner, as depicted in Norman Rockwell paintings, and actually practice medicine. Screen patients. Talk to them. Find out why they want or feel they need that medication. Ask whether they've taken it before, and for how long, and for what reason. MOST OF ALL, understand that not every patient responds to the same medications, in the same doses, the same way. Someone mentioned the P450 enzymes in this thread; that's an excellent point. Not every patient is going to have the same hepatic level of CYP2D6 or 2C19. Go back to the books. There are poor metabolizers, intermediate metabolizers, and rapid or ultrarapid metabolizers. Up to 7% of Caucasians may demonstrate ultrarapid drug metabolism because of inherited alleles with multiplicate functional CYP2D6 genes, causing an increased amount of enzyme to be expressed. Identification of UM subjects is of potential clinical importance for adjustment of doses in drug therapy, as well as to avoid misidentification of noncompliance (1). Test your patients' enzymatic levels with a simple swab. Also, take into consideration that which you learned in med school - that every patient has a different number of receptors in the brain. Some pts have less, some have more, and in those cases the patient will respond differently, often to a much lesser degree, to standard doses of narcotic medications.

Start with a 2 week script if that's what it takes to build trust and identify a particular patient's needs. Make them visit a psychologist first if that helps build trust (that might weed out a few of the dishonest ones). Then monitor the patient to the extent that you can by using UA drug screens and seeing if they call for refills early. See them again in 2 weeks and discuss the efficacy of the medication, the extent of their pain relief, how often they are using/needing the med, etc. If they are compliant, extend their script for another 2 weeks or 4 weeks. And so on. Put a little TIME into it. Be a doctor! Most of all, put a little faith into patients. Because not all of them are lying or seeking, and those that are truly in need - statistically, as many as 95% of them - are not going to abuse their pain medications.

(1) http://www.clinchem.org/content/44/5/914.long

We know not all patients abuse, or want to abuse their meds. If so, we wouldn't prescribe any of them to anyone.

Opiophobia serves a purpose. The drugs can be very dangerous. It's our responsibility to prevent harm. A certain percentage of patients are harmed by these meds if the proper actions are not taken. In the 1980's, some academicians decided opiophobia was ignorant, backwards and cruel. Then opiophilia became all the rage, and politically correct, with the false and unsubstantiated claim that "opiate addiction is rare (<1%) in chronic pain patients." Since then, opiate prescribing exploded and so have opiate overdose deaths. This scourge is nowhere near under control. And not one of the 16,000 yearly accidental overdose patients that dies, thought it would happen to them.

Please bookmark this thread. Then go to 4 years of medical school, and pass the USMLE. Then do a residency and pass your boards. Then do a Pain fellowship and pass those boards. Then spend a couple of years in practice seeing nothing but chronic pain patients day in day out. Rotate through addiction medicine and go to a few open AA or NA meetings. Mostly importantly, do some work in the ER trying to push narcan, intubating people who have overdosed, and telling the unsuspecting spouses, sons, daughters and parents, their loved ones are dead, because they and their doctors refused to respect the potential deadly effects of opiates. Then tell them it's too late, there's nothing more you could have done, even though you did everything and then some. Then tell them the coroner will be by to ask a few more questions, and that they need to decide what funeral home to use. Make sure everyone knows where the Kleenex is, and make sure security is outside the door, because some people go berserk and violent during death notifications. Zip closed a few body bags.

Then come back to this thread in 15 years and we'll talk some more.
 
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We know not all patients abuse, or want to abuse their meds. If so, we wouldn't prescribe any of them to anyone.

Opiophobia serves a purpose. The drugs can be very dangerous. It's our responsibility to prevent harm. A certain percentage of patients are harmed by these meds if the proper actions are not taken. In the 1980's, some academicians decided opiophobia was ignorant, backwards and cruel. Then opiophilia became all the rage, and politically correct, with the false and unsubstantiated claim that "opiate addiction is rare (<1%) in chronic pain patients." Since then, opiate prescribing exploded and so have opiate overdose deaths. This scourge is nowhere near under control. And not one of the 16,000 yearly accidental overdose patients that dies, thought it would happen to them.

Please bookmark this thread. Then go to 4 years of medical school, and pass the USMLE. Then do a residency and pass your boards. Then do a Pain fellowship and pass those boards. Then spend a couple of years in practice seeing nothing but chronic pain patients day in day out. Rotate through addiction medicine and go to a few open AA or NA meetings. Mostly importantly, do some work in the ER trying to push narcan, intubating people who have overdosed, and telling the unsuspecting spouses, sons, daughters and parents, their loved ones are dead, because they and their doctors refused to respect the potential deadly effects of opiates. Then tell them it's too late, there's nothing more you could have done, even though you did everything and then some. Then tell them the coroner will be by to ask a few more questions, and that they need to decide what funeral home to use. Make sure everyone knows where the Kleenex is, and make sure security is outside the door, because some people go berserk and violent during death notifications. Zip closed a few body bags.

Then come back to this thread in 15 years and we'll talk some more.



Spoken like a true physician. Sanctimonious, jaded, and myopic. The bottom line is, the medical community is punishing all for the sins of a few. Just mention the name of a narcotic medication in the presence of a doctor and watch him burst into flames. And I have been to the AA meetings (as part of educational requirement), and I have worked in the clinics, and I have heard all the b.s. excuses and stories. I don't need to look into the faces of overdose victims who willingly and sadly swallowed the fistfuls of pills. If I did, I'd see someone who wasn't educated about the dangers of their medication; who wasn't given a choice; who couldn't afford or find a treatment facility with an open bed; or who was beyond help. Addiction is a psychological disorder, present long before that first pill was ever popped. If it hadn't manifested through a pill bottle, it would have manifested through a beer bottle.

I am an advocate of treating the LIVING and the COMPLIANT and not punishing them for the actions of the addicts, et al. Because that is exactly what is happening. Effective medications that give patients their quality of life back are being denied because of the pandemic of opiophobia. We (clinic employees) are told that if a patient asks for narcotic medication by name to turn them away. Red flags fly in every direction. Signs go up all over town on pharmacy windows: No Oxycodone Here.

You've spent a quarter mil on an education that turns you out on the other side thinking you are some kind of savior, some kind of diety. Your very own words, your quoted statistics, should be mirrored back to you as evidence that you can't control it. You can't deny people something they want. And you curers of physical ills can't and won't ever cure the innately psychological addiction tendency within a patient. Any patient. The fact is, denial [alone] isn't the answer and it isn't working. Again, refer to your stats. Education is the answer. Treatment is answer. And practicing medicine is the answer. Don't post ridiculous notes throughout a pain mgmt clinic saying "No early refills...EVER!!" and "If you tell us you lost your pills, you will be dismissed, NO EXCEPTIONS!!! We've heard it all!!!" Rather, post notes with info on addiction and treatment. Post notes with the contact info for a treatment facility. Put out brochures that patients can read and take home. Invite them to discuss their addiction concerns with the physician without judgment. TALK to patients. Weed out the truth tellers from the scammers. It only takes a little time and effort. Unfortunately, you docs are too consumed with thoughts of getting on to the next exam room, seeing the next patient, getting as many of them in and out the door as possible. After all, those country club dues are expensive. :)
 
I'm sorry, but I violated my own advice to not feed trolls:

:troll:
 
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The reason we physicians have these rules us because, in the past, all if them have been violated by patients and have adversely affected the doctor patient relationship , the patients' lives, the lives of the family, and the physicians ability to treat other patients who truly do want to get help.

Read your own words. A huge part of pain IS psychological. We should not be using a potent drug - the most potent class of medications - to treat psychological condition.

All of us currently see probably 2000-3000 patients. Many get opioids. Each night each one of us physicians prays that each opioid patient is using those meds the safe way. Cause if even 1 is not, then there may be 2000-3000 patients that will lose their pain doctor and their treatment.


Ps pain doctors not only do injections, prescribe PT, we also refer to addiction, refer to CBT , discuss smoking cessation, consider sleep apnea check lans,discuss family matters, discuss functionality, monitor ability to work , discuss job stressors , review safety matters
Including falls, bowel hygiene, when to retire, how to get back to work....
Also, people do not have the legal right to do all you say... They don't have he right to use illegal drugs, they don't have the right yo use legal drugs without a professional opinion, the have to wear helmet in certain states, etc.
 
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