Organic Chemistry

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PostBacc24601

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Would like the opinions of undergraduate (non-post-bacc students) on the level of rigor of Organic Chemistry - I just picked up 5 undergraduate students to tutor, and need to customize to what it might be like to go through the course when you're 19, concurrently taking biology, just learning to be an adult, etc.

Also, for those of you currently enrolled, I found a few Organic Chemistry Test Banks from the publishers of the common textbooks on Amazon.com while searching for materials to use for my students. In case any of you want them, thought I'd post a link. They have thousands of extra questions and many exam questions are often taken right from them. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321598687/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=

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When I took orgo, I talked a fair amount with high school friends across the country who were taking it at the same time. I saw final exams from friends at a large SUNY school that I could have done in literally 20 minutes with no preparation, and I saw one from Cornell that was hard as my institution. I saw Harvard summer school's, which was perhaps not as easy as the SUNY's but which was still incredibly simple, and I saw a midwest state school's final that might have taken me two hours to prep for.

I don't think there is no good answer to your question really. It was not the hardest prereq that essentially all schools require (that honor would go to calc-based physics II) but just assessing the rigor of a course is impossible without a baseline to compare it to and standardization among institutions.
 
Fair enough, and thanks for your response. I suppose it will probably need to be tailored to the university and instructor.

Where did you take it, if you don't mind me asking?
 
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It really depends on what school, instructor and level you take it. All these can vary so its hard to say what kind of "rigor" you're looking for, however, if you really want to educate these kids i would push them a bit harder than they are used to. Organic chem at my school was fairly difficult, i studied upwards of 20-30 hours for each exam but it paid off.
 
I read Organic Chemistry as a Second Language (only the first book (?), I think there's more than one) before Ochem I. I didn't think Ochem I or II were really that bad; Organic Chemistry felt like a low level math class where it is all about doing practice problems.

Results:
Ochem I : A-
Ochem II: B+
Ochem Lab: A-

TL;DR - I believe Ochem fears are overhyped and it is really not insanely tough or the hardest prereq by a mile.
 
Would like the opinions of undergraduate (non-post-bacc students) on the level of rigor of Organic Chemistry - I just picked up 5 undergraduate students to tutor, and need to customize to what it might be like to go through the course when you're 19, concurrently taking biology, just learning to be an adult, etc.

Also, for those of you currently enrolled, I found a few Organic Chemistry Test Banks from the publishers of the common textbooks on Amazon.com while searching for materials to use for my students. In case any of you want them, thought I'd post a link. They have thousands of extra questions and many exam questions are often taken right from them. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321598687/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=

I finished OChem yesterday! My Organic Chemistry teacher was very tough. We started the class with more than 50 people and ended with about 25. If you put time into studying and do a lot of practice problems, it really isn't that hard. I thought the class was really over hyped.

A good reason why so many people dropped was because they were accelerated classes... OChem 1 was the first 8 weeks of the semester and OChem 2 was the second 8 weeks. If you fell behind, you were done!
 
I read Organic Chemistry as a Second Language (only the first book (?), I think there's more than one) before Ochem I. I didn't think Ochem I or II were really that bad; Organic Chemistry felt like a low level math class where it is all about doing practice problems.

Results:
Ochem I : A-
Ochem II: B+
Ochem Lab: A-

TL;DR - I believe Ochem fears are overhyped and it is really not insanely tough or the hardest prereq by a mile.

I bought this book and I am taking Organic Chem I this following semester. If I get through most of it before the class starts do you think it will give me a leg up?
 
I bought this book and I am taking Organic Chem I this following semester. If I get through most of it before the class starts do you think it will give me a leg up?
I thought it helped for some stuff like resonance and those other fundamental concepts. Also for nomenclature. Your milage may very, but I thought it was good for the basic stuff (certainly not for memorizing reactions)

I'd say it was a light enough read and certainly better idea than trying to read an actual Ochem textbook :)
 
Would like the opinions of undergraduate (non-post-bacc students) on the level of rigor of Organic Chemistry - I just picked up 5 undergraduate students to tutor, and need to customize to what it might be like to go through the course when you're 19, concurrently taking biology, just learning to be an adult, etc.

Also, for those of you currently enrolled, I found a few Organic Chemistry Test Banks from the publishers of the common textbooks on Amazon.com while searching for materials to use for my students. In case any of you want them, thought I'd post a link. They have thousands of extra questions and many exam questions are often taken right from them. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0321598687/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=

I was an orgo TA, and from my experience, Orgo is a class who's students can be categorized into a handful of groups.

Group 1: study very little yet fully understand the material. aces exams w/ little effort. needs very little help. self driven.
Group 2: not naturally gifted, per se, but will work very hard to understand the material, and do so successfully (on their own). They study hard but are effective at managing their time and prioritizing the material. They are self-motivated, and only need occasional help w/ more difficult concepts.
Group 3: not naturally gifted, per se, but will work very hard to understand the material. In spite of their hard work, they still have difficulties understanding the material, and require extra tutoring, examples, encouragement, and practice tests.
Group 4: not naturally gifted, and could care less about how well they do on exams. Not proactive. Lazy. Just want you (as the TA) to give them the answers to everything. Not concerned w/ performance.

Students from Group 1 and 4 are the least common (w/ G4>G1). Students from Group 2 and 3 are the most common (w/ G3>G2). With that being said, the undergrad makes a difference as to the spread of talent. My students from my school, for example, have a different breakdown: a lot of Group 1, a lot of Group 2, a handful of group 3, and almost 0 from group 4.

The class itself (IMO) is not impossible. You just need to invest the proper amount of time, study the right things, do a lot of practice problems, and simulate tests. If you do this, chances are you'll wind up ahead of the curve. There are some students who (again, IMO) cannot be 'saved'. A student's academic ceiling is his/her own personal choice.
 
I bought this book and I am taking Organic Chem I this following semester. If I get through most of it before the class starts do you think it will give me a leg up?

The book itself doesn't give you a "leg" up but it does give you a different perspective of approaching problems which i thought was very useful. You don't really need a textbook for O-chem, everything you need to know is in Klein's book or online
 
I tutor Ochem, and the biggest issue I've found is that a lot of students approach it like a Biology class. They think they can just memorize, memorize, memorize and do well. Ochem has a TON of material, but the great thing about it is that everything is very logical once you understand how electrons move. Emphasize conceptual understanding of what's going on, and the rest just comes with practice. Oh, and you really do have to read before class for class to be worth anything.
 
I bought one of those Ball & Stick molecular modeling kits to help me visualize things at the beginning of Orgo 1. Some people have to see these concepts in 3D to fully understand them.
 
Oh, and you really do have to read before class for class to be worth anything.
Meh, I think the real mastery comes from making sure you know what goes on in lecture, and that you can do the problem sets assigned well.
 
Agree with most of the above. I just finished Ochem I and used Ochem as a second langauage as a supplement to the text book. I found the reading the material in the second language book then reading the textbook and doing the problems was the best. Also, do allllll of the problem sets and practice exams. It definitely wasn't as bad as i thought it was going to be. much better than Gen chem. Just hope you don'tr get effed with a ridiculously hard lab final... screwed me over.
 
Thanks for all of this, I particularly enjoyed the 'Groups 1-4 discussion'. So true, though I think there really is no true 'group 1'. People aren't able to simply divine ideas out of thin air, no matter how much they may want you to think they can. Even those that make it look easy still have to read the material at least once or twice. They may not need to beat it into the ground though.

One of my students tried to tell me that he never studies for the class, because in high school, he didn't have to. Well, guess what...neither did the rest of your class, but they need to now.
 
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