ortho chances

[Handinhand]

Curious how much Step 2CK can help out an application? If someone had an average Step 1 for Ortho, would taking Step 2 and crushing it do much to help an application?

I've heard of other fields beginning to put a lot more emphasis on CK because it's more a measure of clinical knowledge, but I was curious about Ortho? I know a lot of the current advice is to just take it early and get it done with, but haven't heard much about how closely the score is looked at. For example, if you had an average step 1 for ortho but followed up with a 260+ on CK, does it really even matter?

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[blaqmamba]

If by average, you mean ortho average (ie, 240s), then taking step2 could potentially help, IMO. If you mean national avg (227-230), then it would probably help you less so because you'll likely be screened out of programs based on your step1 score. Regardless, you should aim to do well because the process is random

just my 2 cents

 

[Dr. Trees]

Hey guys,

Not to sound cliche but I'm definitely a "long time reader first time poster?" Not completely sure what the terminology is, but I wanted some honest non-trolling feedback on my chances in ortho. I'm a MS3 at Saint Louis U in Missouri. Initially I was interested in Pm&R but lately after some shadowing in surgery I really enjoy ortho. I'm currently on my family medicine rotation

Step 1: 248
Grades: Our school is pass/fail. I've passed all my classes. They don't release your rank or submit it on your transcript or deans letter or anything like that. What they've told us is that AOA is based on 3rd year/4th year rotation grades (honors, near honors, pass, fail)
Research: One publication in a Physical Medicine and Rehab Journal working with a DPT/PhD
Other extracurricular: IG leader of the Pm&R IG, volunteering at our schools free clinic

I'm originally from Houston so I was curious at which specific programs in Texas I would be a competitive applicant. My gf is from Chicago so that's also another option. Thoughts from anyone in Texas/Chicago?

 

[lodestar]

@ Dr.Trees...

see PM "start a conversation" response...mainly, since you have a home Ortho program at Saint Louis U. Medical, get them to advise you and guide your efforts...it is part of what they do for home school students in noblesse oblige fashion

 

[Trisphorin]

How much do research year helps? Just got my Step 1 score back ( 245). Preclinicals are about 50% honors and 50% passes. I was planning on taking a year off for research. Since I am more likely to be competitive for state/community programs, I am not sure if taking a research year will help much. I am interested in programs on the east coast/ny areas.

 

[OrthoHopeful23]

Hey all, another 'what are my chances' here.

MS3, US MD top-50 school.
Pre-clinicals: Half HP, half P.
Clinicals: No grades yet, still on first rotation.
Step 1: 240-245
Research:
-3 Ortho publications (including 1 first author), 1 in another surg subspecialty (first author), 1 ortho pub in progress (first author).
-4 Ortho presentations at national conferences (I was not presenter, but was listed as author).
-3 Ortho posters at national conferences (1st author on 2 of them).

What are my chances assuming I honor surgery rotation and as many other 3rd year rotations as well? I am a bit worried about my pre-clinical grades (no honors).

Thanks in advance.

 

[7157]

just got my step score back today.. and kinda worried

school: top30
step 1: 237
research: 2 first author papers, 5 papers with my name. many abstracts
preclinical: P/F grading, and all passes
clinical: just started

what are my chances realistically?
should I consider dual applying?

Thanks in advance.

 

[blaqmamba]

Deleted

 

[rodmichael82]

just got my step score back today.. and kinda worried

school: top30
step 1: 237
research: 2 first author papers, 5 papers with my name. many abstracts
preclinical: P/F grading, and all passes
clinical: just started

what are my chances realistically?
should I consider dual applying?

Thanks in advance.

Try to get as many honors during 3rd year and take step 2 early strive to score > 255 on step 2

 

[OrthoHopeful23]

Hey all, another 'what are my chances' here.

MS3, US MD top-50 school.
Pre-clinicals: Half HP, half P.
Clinicals: No grades yet, still on first rotation.
Step 1: 240-245
Research:
-3 Ortho publications (including 1 first author), 1 in another surg subspecialty (first author), 1 ortho pub in progress (first author).
-4 Ortho presentations at national conferences (I was not presenter, but was listed as author).
-3 Ortho posters at national conferences (1st author on 2 of them).

What are my chances assuming I honor surgery rotation and as many other 3rd year rotations as well? I am a bit worried about my pre-clinical grades (no honors).

Thanks in advance.

Any thoughts on my situation?

 

[Bancrofti]

Any thoughts on my situation?

The people who used to post who already matched and could give you the best advice are likely busy with intern year now.

You're obviously very competitive. Honor your rotations, especially surg and medicine, and you'll be fine. I don't think you need to worry about anything until early next year when it's time to plan where you do your aways. Even then, it will be a matter of checking in with your school to see where people have matched, and asking people who rotated above you what their opinions were on different programs so that you can plan aways strategically.

 

[Irish Football]

Deleted

 

[OrthoHopeful23]

The people who used to post who already matched and could give you the best advice are likely busy with intern year now.

You're obviously very competitive. Honor your rotations, especially surg and medicine, and you'll be fine. I don't think you need to worry about anything until early next year when it's time to plan where you do your aways. Even then, it will be a matter of checking in with your school to see where people have matched, and asking people who rotated above you what their opinions were on different programs so that you can plan aways strategically.

Thanks this is kind of what I was hoping to hear. Guess I have to focus on honoring my 3rd year rotations right now.. Appreciate the feedback.

 

[Tripl3crown]

Question: How do committees look at manuscripts that have been submitted and under review for publication? I currently have three under review and don't think all/or possibly any of them will be published before ERAS. I know it is of course not as impressive as an actual publication but I heard unless you have a ridiculous amount of pubs which I wont, they just want you to have something you can talk about intelligently. Would having no pubs, but multiple submitted manuscripts and a good amount of podium and poster presentations be "enough" research for the top 20 academic programs?

 

[massmocha]

Any thoughts on my situation?

You are at/below average for step 1 score, so as above, you will need to show that you are an exceptional candidate by honoring all rotations. I would stay away from the biggest name programs for aways, even though you have strong research, because some programs have a hard 245 cutoff. Otherwise, you should be a solid candidate for your home and state/regional programs if you rotate there.

Question: How do committees look at manuscripts that have been submitted and under review for publication? I currently have three under review and don't think all/or possibly any of them will be published before ERAS. I know it is of course not as impressive as an actual publication but I heard unless you have a ridiculous amount of pubs which I wont, they just want you to have something you can talk about intelligently. Would having no pubs, but multiple submitted manuscripts and a good amount of podium and poster presentations be "enough" research for the top 20 academic programs?

Yes, you don't need a million pubs to be at a top research program, these programs look at your board scores and honors as a barometer of your future potential just as much/more than previous publications for whether you will be a good match at a research program. Having even 1 pub should be enough to match at any program in the country if you have elite stats to go along with it.

 

[Handinhand]

school: ~Top 40 school in midwest
Step 1: 250
Preclinical grades: Mostly HP, some honors, 1-2 passes
Clinical Honors: Medicine, Surgery, Anesthesia, Radiology ( All honors so far, great comments on all rotations)
Research: Global health research project summer between M1-M2 in Vietnam, spent 2 months there, mostly working on injury prevention/public health stuff. Will have a local poster presentation from this. Also involved in an Ortho Hand case report that should be published by application time. Also have a Peds Ortho chart review project that miiiight have an abstract out in time.

Planning on doing 2 aways, hopefully out west (Colorado, Utah, Oregon). Also planning on taking CK July 2nd before 4th year starts. Have done well on shelfs, studying already, expect to do well but if I'm not doing well on PT's leading up to it I'll push it back.

Chances?

Wanted to update this quick and get some final opinions on how I'm looking, how many programs I should apply to, etc..

Ended up honoring every rotation of M3 year; I have very good comments as well from all residents and attendings which will go in my deans letter -- not sure how much those are looked at. Also ended up taking Step 2CK about a month ago and scored an even 260. My pre-clinical grades are fairly average, and my Step 1 wasn't rock solid compared to others in my class -- I'm hoping Step 2 and M3 year grades will be able to push me into an AOA spot. I guess it's not the end of the world if it doesn't though.

Only disappointment is that, for reasons outside of my control, neither of my ortho projects will be published by application time. I ended up giving a local presentation about my global health research, but will not have any actual pubs by application time. I know this is a pretty big hit against me, but not much I can do about it now.

Doing two aways this summer -- first one is at a very well known academic program; although I'm probably out of the league of getting a spot here, I'm hoping I can snag 1-2 LORs from the well known faculty here.

 

[OrthoPathic]

So I got my step 2 CK back. Now my stats are Step 1 low 260s and Step 2 mid 270s. Honors everything, 1 publication. What are my chances as a DO? What programs have taken DO's in the past? I know there are current DO residents at Mayo and CCF, anywhere else people know about?

I usually would never consider this but this whole merger thing has me on edge a little bit. Makes me want to consider just taking a plunge on the ACGME side.

 

[Bonebro]

So I got my step 2 CK back. Now my stats are Step 1 low 260s and Step 2 mid 270s. Honors everything, 1 publication. What are my chances as a DO? What programs have taken DO's in the past? I know there are current DO residents at Mayo and CCF, anywhere else people know about?

I usually would never consider this but this whole merger thing has me on edge a little bit. Makes me want to consider just taking a plunge on the ACGME side.

Banner Good Samaritan in Phoenix has a DO resident that I think is a 2nd year now. PD does a pre-interview interview over the phone to decide who he invites to the in person ones and I bet those numbers would be at least give you a shot at the phone convo. I was really impressed with that program at the interview even though it may not have the Mayo or CCF name.

 

[Handinhand]

Wanted to update this quick and get some final opinions on how I'm looking, how many programs I should apply to, etc..

Ended up honoring every rotation of M3 year; I have very good comments as well from all residents and attendings which will go in my deans letter -- not sure how much those are looked at. Also ended up taking Step 2CK about a month ago and scored an even 260. My pre-clinical grades are fairly average, and my Step 1 wasn't rock solid compared to others in my class -- I'm hoping Step 2 and M3 year grades will be able to push me into an AOA spot. I guess it's not the end of the world if it doesn't though.

Only disappointment is that, for reasons outside of my control, neither of my ortho projects will be published by application time. I ended up giving a local presentation about my global health research, but will not have any actual pubs by application time. I know this is a pretty big hit against me, but not much I can do about it now.

Doing two aways this summer -- first one is at a very well known academic program; although I'm probably out of the league of getting a spot here, I'm hoping I can snag 1-2 LORs from the well known faculty here.

So with ERAS opening this week I wanted to get someone's opinion on my application. I ended up getting Senior AOA, but nothing else from the above has changed.

I know I have a decent application, and am not asking for a typical SDN ego stroke. I am more interested in knowing that with my weak research and only average step 1 if I have a chance at the more top tier programs, even with having AOA. I am couples matching and am just trying to figure out how I can best maximize this process. Thanks!

 

[waitlist22]

So with ERAS opening this week I wanted to get someone's opinion on my application. I ended up getting Senior AOA, but nothing else from the above has changed.

I know I have a decent application, and am not asking for a typical SDN ego stroke. I am more interested in knowing that with my weak research and only average step 1 if I have a chance at the more top tier programs, even with having AOA. I am couples matching and am just trying to figure out how I can best maximize this process. Thanks!

Your step 1 should put you in a pretty decent shot to match somewhere and AOA certainly helps. It is extremely rare that someone with AOA doesn't match ortho. Don't know what your step 2 looks like but I think you would struggle to get interviews at the very top tier programs, especially with weak research. That doesn't mean I'm telling you not to apply, this whole thing is an investment after all, but be reasonable with where you spread your applications. The average has been 245 so you are certainly above that but there are plenty of people with 255-260+ that will be applying with you so if you don't have anything else spectacular or interesting on your app, 250 isn't go to land you a ton of top 15 program interviews. You are in a solid spot, couples matching makes it more difficult but as long as she is competitive for her specialty it shouldn't be an issue. Not sure there is a way to "maximize the process".

 

[Handinhand]

Your step 1 should put you in a pretty decent shot to match somewhere and AOA certainly helps. It is extremely rare that someone with AOA doesn't match ortho. Don't know what your step 2 looks like but I think you would struggle to get interviews at the very top tier programs, especially with weak research. That doesn't mean I'm telling you not to apply, this whole thing is an investment after all, but be reasonable with where you spread your applications. The average has been 245 so you are certainly above that but there are plenty of people with 255-260+ that will be applying with you so if you don't have anything else spectacular or interesting on your app, 250 isn't go to land you a ton of top 15 program interviews. You are in a solid spot, couples matching makes it more difficult but as long as she is competitive for her specialty it shouldn't be an issue. Not sure there is a way to "maximize the process".

Step 2: 260
3rd year grades: All honors
Research: I have two ortho projects, they just haven't been published. I have global health research as well which I have presented, but not published.

I am applying to 70 schools. Not applying to some of the big top programs (None of the NYC or Philly ones), but there are a few I'm interested in. I guess I'll still apply to them and see what happens.

In general is a program interviews someone, does that mean at least on paper they think they're qualified to be a resident there?

 

[sobored]

Step 2: 260
3rd year grades: All honors
Research: I have two ortho projects, they just haven't been published. I have global health research as well which I have presented, but not published.

I am applying to 70 schools. Not applying to some of the big top programs (None of the NYC or Philly ones), but there are a few I'm interested in. I guess I'll still apply to them and see what happens.

In general is a program interviews someone, does that mean at least on paper they think they're qualified to be a resident there?

You are smart enough to know the answer to this already.

 

[Tripl3crown]

Found out my manuscript was accepted to the AAOS annual meeting next year. Question is how do you put that on ERAS, I feel like it is more than a poster presentation but not really an abstract/journal publication either. Thoughts?

 

[ru4real1666]

Is it a "paper" aka podium presentation? If so, you may put accepted for presentation as "paper" or "podium" in the citation itself.

 

[Tripl3crown]

Yea. I guess it is really just presenting a manuscript at a podium. Lol. So it would probably fit under oral presentation, then I can put manuscript or paper in the citation. Thanks!!

 

[Handinhand]

What do you guys think about adding a last paragraph to personal statements for specific programs to explain an interest/connection that's not obvious from an application? Ex: My girlfriend is from the northeast, went to undergrad at a program, and her parents live in the town where the hospital is located -- we both have interest in the program but I just don't think they would take me seriously being that I'm from the midwest without knowing this connection.

 

[hunterjumper14]

Thoughts?

MS3, female, at a state school
Preclinical: about 1/2 honors, 1/2 pass
Step 1: 242-244
Clinicals: 2/2 honors so far (family, IM. I'm on surgery now)
Research: (all ortho basic science)
-*hopefully* 1st author publication by time of application
- Podium presentation (1st author) at international conference
-1st author poster at a different international conference
- 3rd author-ish on 2 other posters at conferences
- A few smaller things: school research awards for posters, presenting at the department's research day with residents/fellows, and a med student conference podium presentation, above posters presented at "research days" at a hospital in our system

I have a 2 week rotation in ortho coming up. I'm hoping to get hooked into some more clinical type research with a faculty member, because all of my research has been translational basic science with a Ph.D. mentor.

Thanks everyone!!

Edited to add: I'm not opposed to taking a research year if needed... What are my chances with/without one?

 

[Bonebro]

Thoughts?

MS3, female, at a state school
Preclinical: about 1/2 honors, 1/2 pass
Step 1: 242-244
Clinicals: 2/2 honors so far (family, IM. I'm on surgery now)
Research: (all ortho basic science)
-*hopefully* 1st author publication by time of application
- Podium presentation (1st author) at international conference
-1st author poster at a different international conference
- 3rd author-ish on 2 other posters at conferences
- A few smaller things: school research awards for posters, presenting at the department's research day with residents/fellows, and a med student conference podium presentation, above posters presented at "research days" at a hospital in our system

I have a 2 week rotation in ortho coming up. I'm hoping to get hooked into some more clinical type research with a faculty member, because all of my research has been translational basic science with a Ph.D. mentor.

Thanks everyone!!

Looking good so far. Being a female does make a difference and can get you interviews at more/more prestigious programs than your male counterpart with similar stats.

Your research looks good so far. I would go after some clinical research like you have planned, more so to get connected with faculty that'll write you a good letter and vouch for you come interview and ranking time.

Don't lose sight of the rest of 3rd year, honor as many rotations as you can and I would consider taking step 2 early if you feel like you can get at least above 250.

Good Luck

 

[hunterjumper14]

Looking good so far. Being a female does make a difference and can get you interviews at more/more prestigious programs than your male counterpart with similar stats.

Your research looks good so far. I would go after some clinical research like you have planned, more so to get connected with faculty that'll write you a good letter and vouch for you come interview and ranking time.

Don't lose sight of the rest of 3rd year, honor as many rotations as you can and I would consider taking step 2 early if you feel like you can get at least above 250.

Good Luck

Thanks for your input! Does anyone have comments/experience with how females are viewed on the interview trail or how willing programs are to rank them? I've heard some differing opinions

 

[waitlist22]

Thanks for your input! Does anyone have comments/experience with how females are viewed on the interview trail or how willing programs are to rank them? I've heard some differing opinions

I can't say 100%, but based on my own analysis of my competitiveness I got more interviews than I probably should of and suspect being a female was part of it. There are some programs that are still boys only clubs and you won't get an interview there. There are some that have no females in their program and based on my interviews there and looking at their choice on candidates to interview they were specifically looking to match a girl. I agree with bonebro in that you will probably get more interviews than a male with the exact same stats. That being said, whether they rank you or not has a lot to do with how you interview and whether or not people think they would like working with you. Being female won't help you at that point but it may get you more interviews than you would have if you were a male. I'd estimate I received maybe 2 extra interviews being a female. I will say that I thought I had a pretty strong application except for my step 1 score so it is hard to say for sure what did and did not get me interviews. If you have any specific questions feel free to PM me.

 

[griseofulvin420]

MS3 here from a no-name US MD school.

Preclinicals: ~ 1/3 P, 2/3 H (school is H/P/F)
Clinicals: none yet, on surgery rotation now. I just finished an ortho elective and loved it.
Step 1: 254
Research: One general surgery poster presentation at local conference, no publications. Looking to start an ortho project in the next month

Any thoughts/advice?

 

[4thQTHailMary]

MS3 here from a no-name US MD school.

Preclinicals: ~ 1/3 P, 2/3 H (school is H/P/F)
Clinicals: none yet, on surgery rotation now. I just finished an ortho elective and loved it.
Step 1: 254
Research: One general surgery poster presentation at local conference, no publications. Looking to start an ortho project in the next month

Any thoughts/advice?

Honestly, this is a pretty average/standard application these days. I know what charting the outcomes says, but almost everyone you run into on aways have similar backgrounds. Keep doing what you are doing though. Honor your clerkships. Get the ortho research to have as a talking point. AOA certainly helps. As someone who also comes from a school that doesn't open any doors for me, letters of recommendation are huge. Plan your aways accordingly to places you're interested in, competitive at and will put you in situations to garner some impactful letters. Of course, use your home program first and foremost for this as they will know you the best.

 

[seminoma]

Any thoughts?

MS3 US MD school (non top-40) with P/F for all 4 years. Class rank is reported in quartiles on MSPE

Step 1 - >265
Preclinical (P/F) - top 10% through the end of MS2, handful of school-based academic awards (no national awards or anything special like that).
Clerkships (P/F) - so far completed Medicine and Neuro with shelf scores in the top 5%
Pubs
- 1st author ortho case report (shoulder), hopefully another 1st author biomechanics cadaver (shoulder) study soon.
- 3rd author on a podium presentation at a non-ortho conference. I wasn't able to attend the conference.
- another ortho project (spine) that probably won't be submitted by Sept 2016
- 3rd author on a non-ortho abstract/poster that will (hopefully) be presented at a conference this spring.
- 2 authorship credits in a well-known board review resource
- multiple med-ed projects, only internally "published"

Max squat + DL + bench = 575lb

Would a JBJS pub be significantly more valuable than a pub in a lesser ortho journal? I have a choice right now between two projects, one that I can very likely finish and get published in a non-JBJS, or one that is 50/50 to be finished and maybe good enough to get accepted by JBJS.

 

[joker2400]

Any thoughts?

MS3 US MD school (non top-40) with P/F for all 4 years. Class rank is reported in quartiles on MSPE

Step 1 - >265
Preclinical (P/F) - top 10% through the end of MS2, handful of school-based academic awards (no national awards or anything special like that).
Clerkships (P/F) - so far completed Medicine and Neuro with shelf scores in the top 5%
Pubs
- 1st author ortho case report (shoulder), hopefully another 1st author biomechanics cadaver (shoulder) study soon.
- 3rd author on a podium presentation at a non-ortho conference. I wasn't able to attend the conference.
- another ortho project (spine) that probably won't be submitted by Sept 2016
- 3rd author on a non-ortho abstract/poster that will (hopefully) be presented at a conference this spring.
- 2 authorship credits in a well-known board review resource
- multiple med-ed projects, only internally "published"

Max squat + DL + bench = 575lb

Would a JBJS pub be significantly more valuable than a pub in a lesser ortho journal? I have a choice right now between two projects, one that I can very likely finish and get published in a non-JBJS, or one that is 50/50 to be finished and maybe good enough to get accepted by JBJS.

I'd guess you would do quite well in the match. I would suggest a meeting with an advisor to see if there is anything else you should be doing, also to build that relatioship. Personally I'd take the non-JBJS project just because its more likely to be published, which is what counts.

 

[MD22412]

step 1: 255-260
school: top 60
clinicals: passed first ones, on the second ones, surg is last for me...
pubs: none
status: MS3
DL + bench + squat = 1050lb

Chances and what to do here on out?

 

[Giraffe22]

Third-year at MD state school.
Step 1: 243
Abstracts, Pubs, Posters: 17 (14 ortho)
Clinical Grades: 3 Honors (including surgery), 1 Pass.
Not really involved with any ECs during med school.

Not necessarily looking to match at a top-10 program, would really be happy matching anywhere. Concerned about lack of ECs and below (ortho) avg step 1.

Chances?

 

[x3virgie]

MS3, female, top 20 US school
Preclinical: all pass, don't know ranking
Step 1: 262
Clinicals: pass in surgery, honors ob gyn
Research/ECs: originally wanted to do peds, so a bit behind on the EC/research train
- 1 1st author poster at research conference in pediatrics
- currently working on getting 2 more projects in ortho
- anatomy TA + couple other small ECs
(DL+bench+squat=605)

Going to meet more of the ortho faculty at my campus. Other than honoring the rest of my clinical rotations and getting those projects / doing well on sub-I's, what else can I do?

 

[Breit31]

Hey guys,

MS3 from a mid-tier US school

I will make this brief. I have always had an interest in functional movement and musculoskeletal medicine, both from personal experience and current rotations. I have kept an open mind during school and my surgery rotation has led me to lean towards that as a career.
I am a non-traditional student, and a pretty average applicant in general. Unfortunately this places me in the bottom tier of potential ortho applicants.

Preclinical: mostly pass, some high pass
Step 1: 225 - yea, I know this is crap but it is what it is
Clinical: first two high pass, hoping for that or honors in surgery
Research: Was a research coordinator for a while - initially did not plan on medicine as a career
- 3 years of qualitative primary care research prior to medical school at a large academic institution
- Published three times - JAMA, Journal of Int Med. Unfortunately none of these are ortho related.
Work exp - Variety of jobs/careers prior to shifting gears into medical school - at least an interesting life background

I have always been realistic and know that any shot I take will be a struggle. I assume my step score will get me initially screened out of most programs, leaving few options for any potential interviews. I am going to talk to professors at my school as well to get a feel for where I stand.

Do you guys think it is worth taking a year to do research, and go all in on trying to match, or just move forward with something else? I am unsure I will be able to get any interviews given the nature of the current applicant pool.

I appreciate any feedback and good luck to everyone this upcoming cycle.

 

[Oblique]

Hey guys,

MS3 from a mid-tier US school

I will make this brief. I have always had an interest in functional movement and musculoskeletal medicine, both from personal experience and current rotations. I have kept an open mind during school and my surgery rotation has led me to lean towards that as a career.
I am a non-traditional student, and a pretty average applicant in general. Unfortunately this places me in the bottom tier of potential ortho applicants.

Preclinical: mostly pass, some high pass
Step 1: 225 - yea, I know this is crap but it is what it is
Clinical: first two high pass, hoping for that or honors in surgery
Research: Was a research coordinator for a while - initially did not plan on medicine as a career
- 3 years of qualitative primary care research prior to medical school at a large academic institution
- Published three times - JAMA, Journal of Int Med. Unfortunately none of these are ortho related.
Work exp - Variety of jobs/careers prior to shifting gears into medical school - at least an interesting life background

I have always been realistic and know that any shot I take will be a struggle. I assume my step score will get me initially screened out of most programs, leaving few options for any potential interviews. I am going to talk to professors at my school as well to get a feel for where I stand.

Do you guys think it is worth taking a year to do research, and go all in on trying to match, or just move forward with something else? I am unsure I will be able to get any interviews given the nature of the current applicant pool.

I appreciate any feedback and good luck to everyone this upcoming cycle.

Difficult to get interviews with your step 1 score. I would move on with another specialty.

 

[Duotone]

Hey guys,

MS3 from a mid-tier US school

I will make this brief. I have always had an interest in functional movement and musculoskeletal medicine, both from personal experience and current rotations. I have kept an open mind during school and my surgery rotation has led me to lean towards that as a career.
I am a non-traditional student, and a pretty average applicant in general. Unfortunately this places me in the bottom tier of potential ortho applicants.

Preclinical: mostly pass, some high pass
Step 1: 225 - yea, I know this is crap but it is what it is
Clinical: first two high pass, hoping for that or honors in surgery
Research: Was a research coordinator for a while - initially did not plan on medicine as a career
- 3 years of qualitative primary care research prior to medical school at a large academic institution
- Published three times - JAMA, Journal of Int Med. Unfortunately none of these are ortho related.
Work exp - Variety of jobs/careers prior to shifting gears into medical school - at least an interesting life background

I have always been realistic and know that any shot I take will be a struggle. I assume my step score will get me initially screened out of most programs, leaving few options for any potential interviews. I am going to talk to professors at my school as well to get a feel for where I stand.

Do you guys think it is worth taking a year to do research, and go all in on trying to match, or just move forward with something else? I am unsure I will be able to get any interviews given the nature of the current applicant pool.

I appreciate any feedback and good luck to everyone this upcoming cycle.

Your board score will amke things difficult for you. But it is not a show stopper. You have to hang your life on your step 2 and make sure you get at least a 240. Apply to as many programs as you can imagine. Schedule audition rotations and obtain stellar LORs. In the MD world, your board scores and LORs will open doors for you. Be ready to talk about your research involvement (if you include them in your CV). Have a backup plan that you can invest 30% of your ERAS application effort into. If ortho doesn't work out, you can switch to plan B seamlessly. A year of research may not add to your CV unless it has a huge wow factor to it.

 

[akwho]

My background MS4 with 20+ ortho interviews.

Your step 1 score will get your app screened out of every program in the country. Unfortunately due to the step screen you will not get interviews at any program you do not rotate at. I would not do a research year as it does not make up for deficient board scores. You already have more research than most ortho candidates. Overall, I recommend pursuing another specialty.

If you are dead set on orthopaedics I would recommend doing 4-5 away rotations at low tier community programs, and acing Step 2 (250+). According to 2014 Charting Outcomes, 73 out of 703 matched orthopaedics candidates had your Step 1 score or lower. They likely had exceptional EC's or desirable demographic qualities. If you choose to go this route you should apply to a backup specialty.

Good luck.

Hey guys,

MS3 from a mid-tier US school

I will make this brief. I have always had an interest in functional movement and musculoskeletal medicine, both from personal experience and current rotations. I have kept an open mind during school and my surgery rotation has led me to lean towards that as a career.
I am a non-traditional student, and a pretty average applicant in general. Unfortunately this places me in the bottom tier of potential ortho applicants.

Preclinical: mostly pass, some high pass
Step 1: 225 - yea, I know this is crap but it is what it is
Clinical: first two high pass, hoping for that or honors in surgery
Research: Was a research coordinator for a while - initially did not plan on medicine as a career
- 3 years of qualitative primary care research prior to medical school at a large academic institution
- Published three times - JAMA, Journal of Int Med. Unfortunately none of these are ortho related.
Work exp - Variety of jobs/careers prior to shifting gears into medical school - at least an interesting life background

I have always been realistic and know that any shot I take will be a struggle. I assume my step score will get me initially screened out of most programs, leaving few options for any potential interviews. I am going to talk to professors at my school as well to get a feel for where I stand.

Do you guys think it is worth taking a year to do research, and go all in on trying to match, or just move forward with something else? I am unsure I will be able to get any interviews given the nature of the current applicant pool.

I appreciate any feedback and good luck to everyone this upcoming cycle.

 

[akwho]

The pass in surgery will hurt at top tier academic programs. You can make up for that with honors on IM and your orthopaedic rotations. The rest of your application package is impressive and will compare very favorably to other female orthopaedic candidates whom you are competing with. At this point you should be honoring 3rd year, gunning for AOA, and planning away rotations. Research is important, but don't let it distract you from doing well in 3rd year rotations. Especially since any research you do at this point is unlikely to be Published by September 15th, 2016.

MS3, female, top 20 US school
Preclinical: all pass, don't know ranking
Step 1: 262
Clinicals: pass in surgery, honors ob gyn
Research/ECs: originally wanted to do peds, so a bit behind on the EC/research train
- 1 1st author poster at research conference in pediatrics
- currently working on getting 2 more projects in ortho
- anatomy TA + couple other small ECs
(DL+bench+squat=605)

Going to meet more of the ortho faculty at my campus. Other than honoring the rest of my clinical rotations and getting those projects / doing well on sub-I's, what else can I do?

 

[akwho]

You have an impressive amount of research which is the only medical school EC that matters. You should take Step 2 early and try to score 250+. Keep doing well 3rd year and strategically plan your away rotations at low to mid tier orthopaedic programs in places you have regional ties to. If you have connections from your research group you should utilize those and do away rotations there. You will most likely match and your best shot at a good mid tier program is being strategic in where you do your aways.

Third-year at MD state school.
Step 1: 243
Abstracts, Pubs, Posters: 17 (14 ortho)
Clinical Grades: 3 Honors (including surgery), 1 Pass.
Not really involved with any ECs during med school.

Not necessarily looking to match at a top-10 program, would really be happy matching anywhere. Concerned about lack of ECs and below (ortho) avg step 1.

Chances?

 

[4thQTHailMary]

Always cringe when I see people say "low tier community" and "mid tier" programs as if some barometer of competiveness. For starters, there is no bad program, and it doesn't matter where you go in terms of doximity rankings. Also, the interview selection process is completely random- I received some "top tier" places, but didn't get some "lower tier community" programs in my region. Decide what type of program you want and how you want to be trained.

 

[Giraffe22]

You have an impressive amount of research which is the only medical school EC that matters. You should take Step 2 early and try to score 250+. Keep doing well 3rd year and strategically plan your away rotations at low to mid tier orthopaedic programs in places you have regional ties to. If you have connections from your research group you should utilize those and do away rotations there. You will most likely match and your best shot at a good mid tier program is being strategic in where you do your aways.

Appreciate the feedback!

 

[akwho]

I agree with you on principal, and will rank several "low tier" community programs above a few of the better known academic programs due to fit, operating time, subjectively better education and location. The low- mid- high-tier is still a helpful concept, and not meant to be a comment on the quality of education provided at community programs. It is a concept meant to tell you which programs to rotate at, apply to, and interview at on the sole basis of your competitiveness as an applicant.

You should rotate at where you will be competitive to match. I know many fellow applicants who feel they wasted a full month of time, effort and money at UCSF, HSS and other high-tier programs. It quickly became apparent they would not receive an offer to interview there, let alone match. Be careful, and smart about where you plan your valuable away rotations.

Always cringe when I see people say "low tier community" and "mid tier" programs as if some barometer of competiveness. For starters, there is no bad program, and it doesn't matter where you go in terms of doximity rankings. Also, the interview selection process is completely random- I received some "top tier" places, but didn't get some "lower tier community" programs in my region. Decide what type of program you want and how you want to be trained.

 

[readdoc]

Of course we all know scores, research and academics are important, but mostly ..... ROTATIONS! Plan them well. Get rotations at programs where you'll be competitive. Get rotations at programs where you'd like to live. Five years of residency is a long time. Get rotations at places that seem interested in you. I rotated one place that may have been a "reach", but it taught me a great deal. I rotated at a "safe" choice and hated it. Making connections, "fitting in" are big in rotations. Plan them. Work your ass off during them. Cross your fingers that one of your rotations will land you a spot.

 

[patel1283]

I have heard and read various thoughts on the competitiveness of orthopaedics for this cycle. To sum it up, I heard it was the single most competitive specialty going into the match this year. For those of us that are interested in applying for orthopaedics next year, have we shot ourselves in the foot with step 1 scores in the 240s?

 

[x3virgie]

I agree with you on principal, and will rank several "low tier" community programs above a few of the better known academic programs due to fit, operating time, subjectively better education and location. The low- mid- high-tier is still a helpful concept, and not meant to be a comment on the quality of education provided at community programs. It is a concept meant to tell you which programs to rotate at, apply to, and interview at on the sole basis of your competitiveness as an applicant.

You should rotate at where you will be competitive to match. I know many fellow applicants who feel they wasted a full month of time, effort and money at UCSF, HSS and other high-tier programs. It quickly became apparent they would not receive an offer to interview there, let alone match. Be careful, and smart about where you plan your valuable away rotations.

How do I know where I am competitive? I feel like I'm lacking a lot in my application in terms of research. While I am still working on getting some sort of project started, will I still be competitive if nothing pans out by September?

 

[kingbill21]

Hey guys,

MS3 at east coast med school.

Step 1: 241
Abstracts, Pubs, Posters: 3 (1 ortho)
Pre-clinical grades: 0 Honors MS1, few Honors MS2, lower third class ranking
Clinical Grades: Excellent in Family, OB, and IM. Have Surgery now, will try to gun the rest of the year and hopefully get 4-5 honors by end of third year
EC's - 5 leadership positions in med school, anatomy TA, At least 100 volunteer hours cumulative

I know I am not competitive for an ortho program right now, but would really be happy doing orthopaedics anywhere. I am concerned about the lack of research, low Step 1, and the lack of honors.

That being said, I am more than ready to take a year off for research. I go to a school where I can get involved with ortho quickly and get atleast 15 abstracts/posters in one year (maybe even some pubs). But my question is, would that even be worth it? Will I have a chance even if I take a research year between M3 and M4?

Chances?

Thanks in advance