orthodontics...pros and cons?

[Kimng5685]

After considering medical school for long time I have decided that I want to go to dental school - particularly specializing in orthodontics. I have done a lot of research online about the field including salary and job outlook etc. Almost every article I see says that orthodontists make on average 250k per year and will see a 20% increase in the job market by 2020! Sounds pretty good to me... but then I see on this forum people discussing how GPs will swallow up orthodontists and that the market is COMPLETELY screwed which is really worrying me. My parents, who are both dentists, really want me to go into medical because they know that dentistry is an extremely tough job but after seeing my orthodontist I really enjoyed the idea of orthodontics and seeing patients/watching their progress over a period of time...

Can someone please let me how accurate this information about orthodontists being swallowed up by GPs is? And if so why is there so much information about the growth of the field of ortho with regards to salary and job market?

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[THS]

General dentists can make $250k too, but that's another issue.

If you truly want to be an orthodontist, then you'll have to first get into dental school, then stay at the top 10% of your class through dental school. Keep in mind that the stuff you like about ortho, you'll see very little of in dental school. You'll have to do a lot of fillings, crown preps, root canals, partial dentures, etc. And then once you'll graduate, you'll probably have to start your own practice or buy an existing one, because there aren't that many job opportunities for "associate orthodontists".

I'm not saying this to discourage you, but instead for you to ask yourself if this is something you really want. It will be tough, but if you want anything bad enough, you should be able to achieve it.

Also,

My parents, who are both dentists, really want me to go into medical because they know that dentistry is an extremely tough job...

...this is the first time I have EVER heard this. It's unfortunate that your parents are discouraging you from pursuing dentistry, but it's very clear that dentist job satisfaction is incredibly high, while the majority of physicians wouldn't recommend their careers to anyone.

 

[Aamiya]

Refer the link below

Pros and Cons of being an Orthodontist

 

[dp93]

pros:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[UCLADDS2015]

Pros:
happy, healthy patients
no needles, no blood (mostly)
higher average salaries than GPs
less physically demanding than GP or other dental specialties

Cons:
expensive residencies
poor job market/oversaturation
need for referrals from GPs

 

[sgv]

you're going to see a lot more con's in the near future...the biggest con by far is that orthodontics is incredibly boring outside of treatment planning

 

[Cold Front]

5 major pros (based on the orthodontists I know).

Pros:

1. Very little hands on. Assistants do 90% of the work. Because of this, one of my orthodontist friends averages 7 minutes per patient.

2. Less Insurance Issues. Most of the patients are self pay, and dealing less with insurances. So collection is good and quick/on time for the most part compared to GP offices.

3. Young and reliable patients. Most of the patients are young and under parental guidance, so good show rates for appointments and treatment compliance compared to GP's.

4. Longer career on average. Most orthodontists I know are old and don't retire as early as most GP's. They are working well into their late 60's and early 70's because of - partly they don't do much to continue working, and partly because of legacy for son/daughter joining the practice.

5. Money. When a practice crosses certain threshold, usually for older dentists and the right circumstances, it's very lucrative.


Cons:

1. Higher Debt: The path to orthodontic training has become more expensive, and will become more expensive in the future.

2. Longer Training. Many orthodontic trainings use to be 2 years, now almost all (if not all) are 3 years.

3. Longer to Establish a Successful Practice. This is particularly true for scratch startup ortho offices. They have to spend upto 5 years to create a referral network that allows them to work full time at their private offices.

4. Repetitive Dentistry. If routine work is not your thing or bothers you, they you will be limited to the specialty. On the other hand, GP's has the option to be jack of all trades or limit their practice to anything, including orthodontics.

5. Not in the top 5%of Income. Most successful and wealthy dentists are GP's who have started corporate dental chains. So if you are purely in it for the money, then look beyond ortho.

 

[David1991]

...this is the first time I have EVER heard this. It's unfortunate that your parents are discouraging you from pursuing dentistry, but it's very clear that dentist job satisfaction is incredibly high, while the majority of physicians wouldn't recommend their careers to anyone.

THIS lol I was about to post and then saw you already said it. To the OP, if you see this response, are your parents unsatisfied with their work? While I do know dentists who are not happy with their career I have NEVER heard a dentist say to become a physician, but have heard many physicians say to become dentists.

 

[jeffk805dent]

THIS lol I was about to post and then saw you already said it. To the OP, if you see this response, are your parents unsatisfied with their work? While I do know dentists who are not happy with their career I have NEVER heard a dentist say to become a physician, but have heard many physicians say to become dentists.

I've heard the same thing too but with the high cost of dental school and dentist salaries stagnating, look for some people who were originally pre-dentistry to have a sudden interest in some of the medical specialties.

 

[pjscholar]

Ortho is a great field, from the orthos i've talked to GPs are "cherry picking" the easier cases and the orthodontists end up doing more of the challenging cases. You can still do well especially depending on where you set up. Lifestyle seems great, relatively low stress and rewarding.
The cons to me are the enormous cost.

Btw-you don't have to be top 10% this is a common misconception on SDN--it may depend on your school somewhat but if you have good extracurriculars and show interest, one of those 80-100k tuition/year ortho programs are much less competitive. The question is, how much debt is worth it? 500-900k at 7% interest is a real hole to dig out of. Although there is an orthodontist I spoke with who is in this much debt, and he is paying it off but had to chose a less than ideal midwest place to work and is living like a student still. Just some things to consider. Seems like its hard to make a lot of money right out of residency like others mentioned.

 

[navydentist]

After considering medical school for long time I have decided that I want to go to dental school - particularly specializing in orthodontics. I have done a lot of research online about the field including salary and job outlook etc. Almost every article I see says that orthodontists make on average 250k per year and will see a 20% increase in the job market by 2020! Sounds pretty good to me... but then I see on this forum people discussing how GPs will swallow up orthodontists and that the market is COMPLETELY screwed which is really worrying me. My parents, who are both dentists, really want me to go into medical because they know that dentistry is an extremely tough job but after seeing my orthodontist I really enjoyed the idea of orthodontics and seeing patients/watching their progress over a period of time...

Can someone please let me how accurate this information about orthodontists being swallowed up by GPs is? And if so why is there so much information about the growth of the field of ortho with regards to salary and job market?

Ortho will never be swallowed by GPs. It's the same scene with every specialty and GP's doing some of it. At the end of the day specialists kill it no matter how much they whine about GPs. $6000/case? Do you realize how little chairside time Ortho requires? It's a cashcow.

Pros:

Money
patients like you
Money
patients like you
Can work till you're 90

Cons:

Boring: There is no immediate gratification. You don't do procedures that require intense focus. It's more about tx planning and managing a flock of assistants.
Takes some years to get the practice going
Expensive residency
Requires gunner tactics to get in

That said, dental specialties are very hard to get into. Don't underestimate your future dental school competition. If you're comparing to medicine, I believe medicine is a more stable career choice. You don't here about physicians working for $400/day.

 

[Miley Cyrus.]

Ortho will never be swallowed by GPs. It's the same scene with every specialty and GP's doing some of it. At the end of the day specialists kill it no matter how much they whine about GPs. $6000/case? Do you realize how little chairside time Ortho requires? It's a cashcow.

Pros:

Money
patients like you
Money
patients like you
Can work till you're 90

Cons:

Boring: There is no immediate gratification. You don't do procedures that require intense focus. It's more about tx planning and managing a flock of assistants.
Takes some years to get the practice going
Expensive residency
Requires gunner tactics to get in

That said, dental specialties are very hard to get into. Don't underestimate your future dental school competition. If you're comparing to medicine, I believe medicine is a more stable career choice. You don't here about physicians working for $400/day.

how are things for GPs in the midwest and rural areas? Not 400/day, hopefully???

 

[DrJeff]

Taken from someone who's been married to an orthodontist for almost 18 years...

Pros:
Never really any true emergencies to deal with, so when you leave the office at the end of the day/week, you really leave the office

The financial reward can be good, but don't take that as it's easy, certain money

You're usually working on a patient population who is excited to see you, and do get to make some "life changing" moments for some patients

Cons:

The stress is often higher than you think, as many ortho's are extreme perfectionists and it can be tough when patient compliance issues effects the outcome of your treatment planning work

The "wimpification" of many teens and the rise of "helicopter moms" - makes treating some patients a stress inducing nightmare!! And in some cases means that you will be dealing with for a LONG time unrealistic outcome expectations from the patient/parent that you have explained over and over to them to no avail

The marketing side - you often have to "work" for your referrals, and that often means that you need to "schmooze" many a GP, and in some cases other specialists too, many of whom you may not like

 

[jda02624]

Taken from someone who's been married to an orthodontist for almost 18 years...

Pros:
Never really any true emergencies to deal with, so when you leave the office at the end of the day/week, you really leave the office

The financial reward can be good, but don't take that as it's easy, certain money

You're usually working on a patient population who is excited to see you, and do get to make some "life changing" moments for some patients

Cons:

The stress is often higher than you think, as many ortho's are extreme perfectionists and it can be tough when patient compliance issues effects the outcome of your treatment planning work

The "wimpification" of many teens and the rise of "helicopter moms" - makes treating some patients a stress inducing nightmare!! And in some cases means that you will be dealing with for a LONG time unrealistic outcome expectations from the patient/parent that you have explained over and over to them to no avail

The marketing side - you often have to "work" for your referrals, and that often means that you need to "schmooze" many a GP, and in some cases other specialists too, many of whom you may not like

As an orthodontist myself, I agree with all you have written. Ortho is certainly not stress free, but it is less so than general dentistry, in my opinion. I have great respect for GP's, they don't have an easy job! The one thing that I wish more GP's understood about ortho is that we are often at the mercy of the patient when it comes to cooperation. Maybe I have to leave some over jet or the bite doesn't get corrected as I would like, well very often that is a result of the patient not doing what I tell them to do. Like Dr. Jeff said, the "wimpification" of kids these days is ridiculous. Parents rarely put their foot down and take responsibility in their kids' treatment. "Of course little Johnny wears his rubber bands", etc. Their precious little darlings are all perfect! If I had a dollar for every patient that lied to me and my staff, I'd be retired in Maui right now. I think that is really a reflection of how society is going these days, no one takes responsibility for there own actions and unfortunately that makes getting the ideal ortho result difficult sometimes. I try to explain that to my GP's if the result is less than ideal, but I don't like to have my name on something that isn't ideal and that can be stressful and/or discouraging. I guess that just goes along with the job and I do think that it is really is a great profession. If some of you guys think it's boring and it keeps more people from going into it, then believe me it's boring!

 

[Miley Cyrus.]

As an orthodontist myself, I agree with all you have written. Ortho is certainly not stress free, but it is less so than general dentistry, in my opinion. I have great respect for GP's, they don't have an easy job! The one thing that I wish more GP's understood about ortho is that we are often at the mercy of the patient when it comes to cooperation. Maybe I have to leave some over jet or the bite doesn't get corrected as I would like, well very often that is a result of the patient not doing what I tell them to do. Like Dr. Jeff said, the "wimpification" of kids these days is ridiculous. Parents rarely put their foot down and take responsibility in their kids' treatment. "Of course little Johnny wears his rubber bands", etc. Their precious little darlings are all perfect! If I had a dollar for every patient that lied to me and my staff, I'd be retired in Maui right now. I think that is really a reflection of how society is going these days, no one takes responsibility for there own actions and unfortunately that makes getting the ideal ortho result difficult sometimes. I try to explain that to my GP's if the result is less than ideal, but I don't like to have my name on something that isn't ideal and that can be stressful and/or discouraging. I guess that just goes along with the job and I do think that it is really is a great profession. If some of you guys think it's boring and it keeps more people from going into it, then believe me it's boring!

How much do u make? Roughly? thanks.

 

[Digitalangel]

pros: money

cons: mo money mo problems