Osteopathic derm residencies and pre-clinical grades

[Mat the coolcat]

Hi there,

Resident OMS-1 new guy here,

Two main questions:
1) How much to pre-clinical grades matter
2) Does anyone know what's going to happen to our precious DO derm residencies when the ACGME takes over?

I really wanna do derm, and I'm wondering peoples opinions/stories on the importance of pre-clinical grades. Typical school classes have always weighed down how I look on paper, then the normal statndardized tests come and I do well. I always have learned better long term than for the test right in front of me. I've been an average student for the most part this year, A's and mostly B's, and I'm wondering how much that hurts my chances at a DO derm residency spot.

I've made some good connections at and I'll be writing up some case studies this summer, and I'm continuing to grow my network of derms, which reinforced my desire to go for dermatology.
Any advice from y'all would be really helpful!

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[asmallchild]

Hi there,

Resident OMS-1 new guy here,

Two main questions:
1) How much to pre-clinical grades matter
2) Does anyone know what's going to happen to our precious DO derm residencies when the ACGME takes over?

I really wanna do derm, and I'm wondering peoples opinions/stories on the importance of pre-clinical grades. Typical school classes have always weighed down how I look on paper, then the normal statndardized tests come and I do well. I always have learned better long term than for the test right in front of me. I've been an average student for the most part this year, A's and mostly B's, and I'm wondering how much that hurts my chances at a DO derm residency spot.

I've made some good connections at and I'll be writing up some case studies this summer, and I'm continuing to grow my network of derms, which reinforced my desire to go for dermatology.
Any advice from y'all would be really helpful!

I'm not too familiar with the osteopathic system. If it's anything like the allopathic system, pre-clinical grades do matter. Programs typically don't look very closely (unless you fail something) but the students who typically rock Step 1 (or your osteopathic equivalent) tend to do well pre-clinically. If you are one of the lucky few who can do well on standardized testing without doing well in class, then you should be fine but I wouldn't aim lower than A's / B's preclinically.

 

[Mat the coolcat]

Thanks asmallchild,

I had some health issues the last couple months which rendered me a C in one BS small class, but I'm not too worried about it since I would be able to give a reason for it. I'll keep shooting for the moon.

For someone like me who school doesn't work well with, would you recommend studying over your summer for boards to really review the first year? I don't have any extravagant travel desires so why not.

 

[Mat the coolcat]

^I appreciate the good wishes.

My stats aside, most of the derm DO residencies have been around for a longggg time and are in either Michigan, New York, or Pennsylvania. If you think that even with the merger they will pick a worse student just because MD is next to their name, then you should probably get to know more DO's. I would argue that they will still go more for DO's (if the caliber of applicants are the same) when it comes down to it, simply because of history. Whether that will actually happen or not, time will tell.

But for anyone else reading this, I've talked to the heads of two DO derm residencies, and they care said they care most about 3 things: 1) Board scores, 2) Letters of recommendation and research, and 3) Your personality.

From what I've gathered from physicians residents and other students, if you have good boards, the next most important thing is who you know.

If anyone can challenge/dispute/affirm this I would welcome the dialogue.

 

[Decicco]

After merging with ACGME, the DO derm programs that remain will be much more competitive for DO students. Not only will many programs close because they aren't up to ACGME standards, but many will fill their spots with MDs. DO schools are transitioning more to a primary care model.

 

[Mat the coolcat]

It's a real shame that the ACGME is shutting down programs like this, usually from some bureaucratic BS. I have heard that some are closing, but I've no idea how many. Which ones are closing do you know? And if you don't mind me asking what's your source for this information? I've had trouble finding info on this.

 

[username456789]

It's a real shame that the ACGME is shutting down programs like this, usually from some bureaucratic BS. I have heard that some are closing, but I've no idea how many. Which ones are closing do you know? And if you don't mind me asking what's your source for this information? I've had trouble finding info on this.

It's not a shame at all. It's a shame that these programs have been operating as substandard training programs for so long, and it's great that they are now being held to a higher standard. No more of this "shadowing in private practice for 3 years" stuff.

 

[Mat the coolcat]

Tangibly, what is this "higher standard" you refer to? What is so different? I'm saying this not to pick a fight but for a quest of information.

 

[asmallchild]

Tangibly, what is this "higher standard" you refer to? What is so different? I'm saying this not to pick a fight but for a quest of information.

The higher standard is conformation to ACGME accreditation guidelines: http://www.acgme.org/Specialties/Overview/pfcatid/3

What is so different? It varies from program to program but the reputation for osteopathic residencies does not match that of the currently ACGME accredited programs. My own anecdotal experience as an allopathic graduate who happened to work near an osteopathic residency confirms this (disclaimer of n=1)

I wouldn't worry about standards and DO vs MD. I would simply put your best application forward and just try to get in.

 

[werd]

it's tough to say how everything will shake out with the ACGME merge. i'm personally familiar with at least a couple of the programs... it probably is true that some DO derm programs will be too far from ACGME requirements to be accredited. others already resemble the allopathic residencies and will have a smooth transition.
i think the merge will make it more competitive (ie more challenging) for DO's at first... the ~150 DO's in the match will now also be competing against ~550 MD's for residency positions, and I think the traditionally DO programs will be more likely to consider MD's than vice versa. time will tell.