Osteopathic EM programs

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Everglide said:
Agree with this. I was fortunate to get a large number of interviews and was told by multiple places the same line of highly likely to match, will match anywhere I want etc mentioned. Turns out many of my friends have gotten identical lines from the same places. Only one place I know of will call you to really press and gauge your interest and will adjust their ROL accordingly, no surprise they never go deep on their list.


To be honest I'm not sure a huge number of interviews or impressive application will greatly increase chance of matching DO because it seems like most places put a huge emphasis on rotating. Basically if you rotate it's your spot to lose assuming your application is at least average. Only one of 15 established programs I interviewed at seemed to place little importance on rotating.
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Does anyone know if the letter from mount sinai just said the same generic thing about being a strong candidate for everyone?
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Does anybody have any specific feedback on Lehigh Valley? Seems like it is spoken fairly highly of and program seems to really have its act together based on the info on their site.
 
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I was told it was the most organized of the osteo EM residencies, then on interview day, noone showed up to take us on a tour at the end of the day. We stood around in the lobby where we were told to go, called the office repeatedly to get someone to come take us on a tour, then just gave up and went on our own tour and left for the day. I was definitely not impressed with that.
 
So does anyone know anything(general info) about doctors or mount Sinai ? Like shifts for first years at doctors for example
 
oceanillusion42 said:
Does anybody have any specific feedback on Lehigh Valley? Seems like it is spoken fairly highly of and program seems to really have its act together based on the info on their site.
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I'm rotating here right now. I really like it, and I've ranked them #1. Good level of acuity, excellent facilities/resources, solid didactics, and I've really enjoyed every attending and resident I've met. Really helpful program support staff, too, and dually-accredited to boot. The downsides I've heard from residents is the concern about trauma experience (Trauma handles everything scarier than LOLFDGB/minor MVA; two trauma months are done in-house, however, and are good, including use of the in-ED OR) and the difficulty of knowing everyone well in a 50+ person program. Muhlenberg and Cedar Crest are very busy, high acuity, lots of procedures; 17th Street is slower with more minor/bull**** complaints, but residents don't rotate there unless they choose to do an elective (to prepare for a career running an Urgent Care in a Spanish-speaking neighborhood). Sylvanthus' experience aside, they've seemed well-organized and smoothly run.
 
JediZero said:
I'm rotating here right now. I really like it, and I've ranked them #1. Good level of acuity, excellent facilities/resources, solid didactics, and I've really enjoyed every attending and resident I've met. Really helpful program support staff, too, and dually-accredited to boot. The downsides I've heard from residents is the concern about trauma experience (Trauma handles everything scarier than LOLFDGB/minor MVA; two trauma months are done in-house, however, and are good, including use of the in-ED OR) and the difficulty of knowing everyone well in a 50+ person program. Muhlenberg and Cedar Crest are very busy, high acuity, lots of procedures; 17th Street is slower with more minor/bullcrap complaints, but residents don't rotate there unless they choose to do an elective (to prepare for a career running an Urgent Care in a Spanish-speaking neighborhood). Sylvanthus' experience aside, they've seemed well-organized and smoothly run.
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Agree with everything here. My experience was excellent and I also have them at #1. Of the places I rotated, they were the most structured, had the best teaching, and were focused on solid evidence based medicine. It doesn't hurt that pay and benefits are better than most other places I've checked out.
 
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Hey, I'm new to SDN and haven't used it much. But I've been reading this thread as I'm interested in EM programs.
However, I'm not the best applicant. I have a COMLEX Level I in the 450's, GPA of 3.0.
Is there any point to applying to EM programs for someone with my background or should I stick to IM.
I was hoping to apply to St. Barnabas, Good Samaritan Hospital, St. Luke's in PA just to name a few.
Thanks and sorry if I'm using this thread incorrectly.
 
user9605 said:
Hey, I'm new to SDN and haven't used it much. But I've been reading this thread as I'm interested in EM programs.
However, I'm not the best applicant. I have a COMLEX Level I in the 450's, GPA of 3.0.
Is there any point to applying to EM programs for someone with my background or should I stick to IM.
I was hoping to apply to St. Barnabas, Good Samaritan Hospital, St. Luke's in PA just to name a few.
Thanks and sorry if I'm using this thread incorrectly.
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Are you below the average applicant? Slightly yes. Does this mean you are out? NO

You still have a chance at EM, and you are the type of individual that rotating will help significantly if you are better clinically than on exams. Rotate, Impress, Interview, Rank, Match.
 
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user9605 said:
Hey, I'm new to SDN and haven't used it much. But I've been reading this thread as I'm interested in EM programs.
However, I'm not the best applicant. I have a COMLEX Level I in the 450's, GPA of 3.0.
Is there any point to applying to EM programs for someone with my background or should I stick to IM.
I was hoping to apply to St. Barnabas, Good Samaritan Hospital, St. Luke's in PA just to name a few.
Thanks and sorry if I'm using this thread incorrectly.
Click to expand...

And the circle of life continues...

Welcome to SDN. People will try to freak you out. But it's not as bleak as things seem here sometimes. EM is competitive, and getting more so, but it's not Derm or anything. Most of the people who are passionate about it and aren't complete idiots can still get in, albeit maybe not in a choice location. A few things:
-Your Level I is by no means a problem. However, it does mean that you need to do better on Level II, as programs like to see an improvement and they seem to care more about Level II anyway.
-Your GPA is pretty much irrelevant. Some program directors will discard your app for failing a class, but for the most part, EM programs don't worry about your grades.
-The programs you've named are all solid, and there's a ton of information on the pros and cons of each contained in this thread. Do keep in mind that it's always wiser to apply more broadly, so don't get too locked in to a few options, at least early in the game.
-As NYEMMED said: Rotate, Impress, Interview, Rank, Match. Set up audition rotations, bust your ass on them, get letters, and hit the interview trail.
-You are absolutely not using the thread incorrectly. You've got this. Good luck to you, and come back here as often as you like. =)
 
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user9605 said:
Hey, I'm new to SDN and haven't used it much. But I've been reading this thread as I'm interested in EM programs.
However, I'm not the best applicant. I have a COMLEX Level I in the 450's, GPA of 3.0.
Is there any point to applying to EM programs for someone with my background or should I stick to IM.
I was hoping to apply to St. Barnabas, Good Samaritan Hospital, St. Luke's in PA just to name a few.
Thanks and sorry if I'm using this thread incorrectly.
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Though I have no experience with the program. I have not heard great things about St. Barnabas throughout the interview trail. I believe that having a rotation is vital to having a shot at that program though. Best of luck to you.
 
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Anyone have any info on the program in port st lucie florida?
 
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When I search things on the mobile app, the results always suck. I have no clue why. So I'll ask: are ALL DO programs 4 years? If so, why??? I really want to know the reason.
 
pvdude said:
Anyone have any info on the program in port st lucie florida?
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Rotated there. Very small program, but excellent. The program director is very hands-on, works with his residents and medical students as much as possible, and will grill you on your presentations and decisions (in a good way, provided you're putting in the effort to do well). It facilitated a very tight-knit family atmosphere, where everyone knew each other, their families, their strengths and weaknesses, their preferences, etc. The location has some pluses and minuses. Can't complain about the weather, and the geriatric population means a lot of codes and intubations (you cover the ICU, as well). On the other hand, not much trauma, and the area is pretty quiet with nonexistent nightlife, which is good or bad depending on your preferences. Finally, they just opened a new ED in the last week or two, so while I haven't seen it in action, it's supposed to be pretty nice.

Overall, I loved it, but it's a very love-it-or-hate-it program, and it's heavily dependent on your personal preferences. They will not interview you if you do not rotate, so if you do that, you'll get the chance to see for yourself.
 
wjs010 said:
When I search things on the mobile app, the results always suck. I have no clue why. So I'll ask: are ALL DO programs 4 years? If so, why??? I really want to know the reason.
Click to expand...

Yes, all DO programs are 4 years. This is because all DO programs are required to incorporate the AOA Internship, which takes you out of the department more, so three years would not give you the same amount of ER time that you'd get in an ACGME program.
 
JediZero said:
Rotated there. Very small program, but excellent. The program director is very hands-on, works with his residents and medical students as much as possible, and will grill you on your presentations and decisions (in a good way, provided you're putting in the effort to do well). It facilitated a very tight-knit family atmosphere, where everyone knew each other, their families, their strengths and weaknesses, their preferences, etc. The location has some pluses and minuses. Can't complain about the weather, and the geriatric population means a lot of codes and intubations (you cover the ICU, as well). On the other hand, not much trauma, and the area is pretty quiet with nonexistent nightlife, which is good or bad depending on your preferences. Finally, they just opened a new ED in the last week or two, so while I haven't seen it in action, it's supposed to be pretty nice.

Overall, I loved it, but it's a very love-it-or-hate-it program, and it's heavily dependent on your personal preferences. They will not interview you if you do not rotate, so if you do that, you'll get the chance to see for yourself.
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If you don't mind sharing, how many EM audition rotations have you done and where were they? I'm asking this because I know you went to WesternU, and there is where I'm headed soon (although I know you went to the Oregon campus for the the clinical years).
 
Hi everyone, quick question. When you apply for Osteopathic EM spots, do you just apply for emergency medicine under the assumption that the program will find you placement for pgy1, or do you apply to both an intern year and EM? Thanks1
 
GTP said:
Hi everyone, quick question. When you apply for Osteopathic EM spots, do you just apply for emergency medicine under the assumption that the program will find you placement for pgy1, or do you apply to both an intern year and EM? Thanks1
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EM residency automatically grants OGME-1 internship. You match directly into the residency program. See the AOA Opportunites website for further clarification.
 
No thats plenty clear. Thank you very much. How many programs on average do applicants apply to ? (if we add both MD and DO programs)?
 
Good luck everyone, Monday is coming up quickly!
 
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WHat do people know/ heard about midwestern EM? I ranked the program but the more i look the less confident I am that they see enough patients?
Also has anyone heard some love from Einstein? I've heard that they Do that but I haven't heard any love. I know love calls don't mean much but if others are getting and I'm not
 
qwerty111 said:
WHat do people know/ heard about midwestern EM? I ranked the program but the more i look the less confident I am that they see enough patients?
Also has anyone heard some love from Einstein? I've heard that they Do that but I haven't heard any love. I know love calls don't mean much but if others are getting and I'm not
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Einstein- I did. Only ranking them on the ACGME side though. Ranked only a very few osteo.
 
Great! haha well Does anyone know about the chicago midwestern program? they do so much crappy rotations year one and then they work at tiny hospitals I am unsure what kind of training they get. they only do two ICU rotations
 
It would be great if some of you out on the interview trail this season could post some more updated reviews of programs. It would be especially helpful for some of the newer ones without anything on this thread yet
 
rank list - einstein, aarowhead, chicago(midwestern) and good sam were the only 4 i ranked in the DO match - then i have 12 in the MD match.
whats everyone else got?
 
Hey everyone, just wanted wish y'all good luck with Match Day right around the corner! For those that are waiting to hear from the match, how many audition rotations did you do? I can do up to 5 EM rotations next year, but I'm concerned this might be over kill? I appreciate the advice!
 
3 unfilled EM programs, 1 FM-EM, 3 IM-EM.

I ended up matching into a TRI and get to repeat the Medical Hunger Games next year. :-(.
 
Siggy said:
3 unfilled EM programs, 1 FM-EM, 3 IM-EM.

I ended up matching into a TRI and get to repeat the Medical Hunger Games next year. :-(.
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Sorry bro, best of luck to you next year.
 
scummie said:
Sorry bro, best of luck to you next year.
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Thanks... I wasn't expecting any EM programs to be open, so I thought the safer bet would be to match into a TRI. Thankfully, the TRI I matched into is an excellent one (Arrowhead, which is my home hospital) which filled, but now I have to spend a year second guessing whether I should have left myself open to scramble or not, especially since EM isn't getting any easier to match into.
 
Siggy said:
Thanks... I wasn't expecting any EM programs to be open, so I thought the safer bet would be to match into a TRI. Thankfully, the TRI I matched into is an excellent one (Arrowhead, which is my home hospital) which filled, but now I have to spend a year second guessing whether I should have left myself open to scramble or not, especially since EM isn't getting any easier to match into.
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I think you're setting yourself up well though--Arrowhead does have an EM program and you can get plenty of face time in. Granted, it's not a 100% guarantee you'll match EM there, but it's still something.
 
EM:
Oklahoma State: 2
PCOM Aria: 1

FM-EM:
St. Barnabas, NY: 1

IM-EM:
St. Barnabas, NY: 2
Ohio Valley, WV: 1
 
Siggy said:
EM:
Oklahoma State: 2
PCOM Aria: 1

FM-EM:
St. Barnabas, NY: 1

IM-EM:
St. Barnabas, NY: 2
Ohio Valley, WV: 1
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Surprising to see the combined programs did not fill. Oklahoma didn't find two people? Odd. Anybody know how this compares to last year?
 
scummie said:
Surprising to see the combined programs did not fill. Oklahoma didn't find two people? Odd. Anybody know how this compares to last year?
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I know... I'd take EM-IM at Ohio Valley... (I interviewed there for their straight EM program and was pleasently surprised).

Edit:
The other surprising thing is either none of the open spots have been filled, or none of the programs has updated their listing yet.
 
Siggy said:
I know... I'd take EM-IM at Ohio Valley... (I interviewed there for their straight EM program and was pleasently surprised).

Edit:
The other surprising thing is either none of the open spots have been filled, or none of the programs has updated their listing yet.
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This appears strange for Tulsa and it's a good program if you are self motivated. They were my number 1 initially but no feedback as well as the gut feeling I got about my number 1 led me to pick a different hospital.
 
Updated from the frontlines:

Both Tulsa Spots filled
Aria spot filled

Barnabas EM/FM filled

EM/IM at Ohio Valley was withdrawn without being filled
EM/IM at Barnabas... ?

I'll let you all guess how I know all this. Congratulations to all of you who matched! Very happy for all of you.
 
I matched to my #1!

Was a tough year apparently. Lots of classmates went unmatched despite "average" applications and 3-4 EM rotations. Looked like there wasn't much of anything left after the match other than TRI, FM, Medicine and random small handfuls of everything else. Yikes.
 
Extremely down
550+ step 1
515 + step 2
Good preclinical grades, all rotations were honored or high passed.
3 auditions, EM research, solid letters, previous EMS experience.

10 interviews and no match. Kiss of death was only auditioning top programs, didn't match those and I was toast. I had 5 more invites but seriously doubt it would have made a difference. Auditions are king now.

Not doing a TRI because next year it will be even harder applying as a TRI and more and more picking EM. Not to mention that it makes for a 5 year residency as you are very unlikely to get advanced standing.

Don't kid yourself either, I had no red flags and even got a couple "ranking you highly" letters.
 
just1man said:
Not doing a TRI because next year it will be even harder applying as a TRI and more and more picking EM. Not to mention that it makes for a 5 year residency as you are very unlikely to get advanced standing.
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So... what are you doing instead?
And you can do a TRI, then go for an ACGME residency and it would end up being the same 4 years as if you matched straight into an AOA program. And with the transitional year, you still qualify for DO licensing in the few short-bus states.
 
just1man said:
Extremely down
550+ step 1
515 + step 2
Good preclinical grades, all rotations were honored or high passed.
3 auditions, EM research, solid letters, previous EMS experience.

10 interviews and no match. Kiss of death was only auditioning top programs, didn't match those and I was toast. I had 5 more invites but seriously doubt it would have made a difference. Auditions are king now.

Not doing a TRI because next year it will be even harder applying as a TRI and more and more picking EM. Not to mention that it makes for a 5 year residency as you are very unlikely to get advanced standing.

Don't kid yourself either, I had no red flags and even got a couple "ranking you highly" letters.
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I wouldn't say audition is king per se but it can definitely be make or break you. Also I wonder if the drop in step 2 as well as something a letter writer could have said the reason was why you didn't match? You seem like a solid applicant.

To future applicants- Don't burn all of your auditions at reach/top programs. I would personally do one top program with a mix of mid/low tier programs.

I did this approach and I matched at my number #1 with no audition.
 
Doctor Bob said:
So... what are you doing instead?
And you can do a TRI, then go for an ACGME residency and it would end up being the same 4 years as if you matched straight into an AOA program. And with the transitional year, you still qualify for DO licensing in the few short-bus states.
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True. Sparrow comes to mind in doing that route.
 
Nothing set in stone yet, but thinking FP. 3 coordinators at my school claimed my letters were extremely strong. You may be correct on Step 2, I just think reapplying allopathic would be tough. USMLE STEP 1 was only 215. What do you think my chances are reapplying on both sides? I just keep thinking more people are going EM every year, and PDs have said they prefer new graduates
 
just1man said:
Nothing set in stone yet, but thinking FP. 3 coordinators at my school claimed my letters were extremely strong. You may be correct on Step 2, I just think reapplying allopathic would be tough. USMLE STEP 1 was only 215. What do you think my chances are reapplying on both sides? I just keep thinking more people are going EM every year, and PDs have said they prefer new graduates
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If it was me, I would schedule some EM rotations at smaller less competitive places as my final rotations of fourth year, try to do a tri where an EM residency is attached and show your face.
 
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Makati2008 said:
If it was me, I would schedule some EM rotations at smaller less competitive places as my final rotations of fourth year, try to do a tri where an EM residency is attached and show your face.
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That's what I currently have set up. My last rotation is an EM rotation in Florida and my TRI both has an EM program and allows up to three away electives.
 
just1man said:
Nothing set in stone yet, but thinking FP. 3 coordinators at my school claimed my letters were extremely strong. You may be correct on Step 2, I just think reapplying allopathic would be tough. USMLE STEP 1 was only 215. What do you think my chances are reapplying on both sides? I just keep thinking more people are going EM every year, and PDs have said they prefer new graduates
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There had to have been something off. Did you only apply to the top DO programs? What about on the ACGME side? If you had 10 DO interviews and didn't match anywhere, that's just wrong. 550 to a 515 doesn't seem like a huge drop to be honest.
 
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