Osteopathic EM programs

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Bump..
Anyone have any info on the above programs? I have rotations at each during my fourth year and would love some heads up on the programs!
Thanks!
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Hey all...I've got a question about Osteo EM. I see on the AOA residency Opportunities page, there are 43 programs in the country. I calculated the total number of EM spots is about 211 PGY1 spots. Does anybody have any idea of the total number of applicants there are each year? Some programs only have 40 or so people that interviewed and others such as PCOM-Albert Einstein have 160 people that were interviewed. So whats the competition really like?
 
countthestars said:
Hey all...I've got a question about Osteo EM. I see on the AOA residency Opportunities page, there are 43 programs in the country. I calculated the total number of EM spots is about 211 PGY1 spots. Does anybody have any idea of the total number of applicants there are each year? Some programs only have 40 or so people that interviewed and others such as PCOM-Albert Einstein have 160 people that were interviewed. So whats the competition really like?
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The Opportunities page shows how many interviews were done for each individual hospital when you view the Program info. I can't comment on how accurate that info may be.
 
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HunterGatherer said:
The Opportunities page shows how many interviews were done for each individual hospital when you view the Program info. I can't comment on how accurate that info may be.
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Yea, I figured as much. Do you have any idea of how many applicants there are total in a given cycle?
 
I have a question- are most or all pgms in the DO match for EM categorical, or do you need to do a transitional yr 1st? I was looking at some of the residencies for Surgery/Anesthesia and EM, and it seems that there are those in certain states that still require an intern year before the residency. This does not seem to be the case with most of the West coast pgms.
 
Akamu said:
I have a question- are most or all pgms in the DO match for EM categorical, or do you need to do a transitional yr 1st? I was looking at some of the residencies for Surgery/Anesthesia and EM, and it seems that there are those in certain states that still require an intern year before the residency. This does not seem to be the case with most of the West coast pgms.
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I know EM are all categorical 4 yr programs regardless of what state you're in. I don't know about the rest of them.
 
Akamu said:
I have a question- are most or all pgms in the DO match for EM categorical, or do you need to do a transitional yr 1st? I was looking at some of the residencies for Surgery/Anesthesia and EM, and it seems that there are those in certain states that still require an intern year before the residency. This does not seem to be the case with most of the West coast pgms.
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All DO EM residencies are PGY 1-4's with the PGY 1 year counting as an internship, even though you do 4 mos of EM in the intern year, along with the other stuff.
 
Greenbbs said:
All DO EM residencies are PGY 1-4's with the PGY 1 year counting as an internship, even though you do 4 mos of EM in the intern year, along with the other stuff.
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will DO programs take someone who's done a trans year as a PGY2?
 
MSmentor018 said:
if you're going from DO-->DO yes, if it's DO-->MD you get some credit for rotations/procedures but have to start over as a PGY-1 again. during my rotations I've met residents that are in both situations
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how about MD trans to DO-EM PGY2? Is that even possible during the match or would i have to get lucky with a "posted position" somehwere?
 
MSmentor018 said:
as far as i know MD's can't enter DO programs even as a trans....maybe an attending on here will chime in?
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sorry for the confusion..

I'm a DO student starting a MD trans in june when i didnt match for EM this year. Hoping i could better my chances next year with DO-EM as pgy2?
 
malariarus said:
sorry for the confusion..

I'm a DO student starting a MD trans in june when i didnt match for EM this year. Hoping i could better my chances next year with DO-EM as pgy2?
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sorry you didn't match. gotcha, that's a good question....one would think you could since DO programs are all 4 yrs, being the 1st is a transition. contact the program you wish to enter and ask the PD. I know it's very subjective on what they consider is transferable.
 
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malariarus said:
sorry for the confusion..

I'm a DO student starting a MD trans in june when i didnt match for EM this year. Hoping i could better my chances next year with DO-EM as pgy2?
Click to expand...

MSmentor018 said:
sorry you didn't match. gotcha, that's a good question....one would think you could since DO programs are all 4 yrs, being the 1st is a transition. contact the program you wish to enter and ask the PD. I know it's very subjective on what they consider is transferable.
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The residency director for Arrowhead's Osteo EM residency said it is possible to go into EM as a PGY-2 from a rotating position and they even take a few from the military every now and then. To be honest, I would look into each specific program just to make sure. You don't want to assume anything.
 
malariarus said:
sorry for the confusion..

I'm a DO student starting a MD trans in june when i didnt match for EM this year. Hoping i could better my chances next year with DO-EM as pgy2?
Click to expand...

There are a few things you're going to have to deal with. First, if you don't get your ACGME year approved under resolution 42, than looking at a DO pgy2 year is a moot point. I don't mean to imply it will be a problem, but it's something that you'll want to get taken care of as soon as possible becasue of it's implications for advanced standing. If for some reason the AOA said "no" then you're looking at osteo pgy1 and allo pgy1/2 anyway. Next would be contacting individual programs and talking to them about pgy2 spots. Because every osteo program is now linked, you're pretty much looking for a program is either losing a PGY1 at the end of their intern year, or had a spot that went unfilled. Finally, since osteo EM pgy2's are rare, you'll have to consider the possibility of repeating your internship and thus spending 5 years in a 4 year program...

... But don't lose hope becasue there are people who manage to pull it off. I did it this year, and so did nearly everyone in my traditional intern class. Out of 11 total, 10 of us found categorical pgy2s are are giving us full credit for internship. So keep the faith and good luck!
 
DO EM looks competitive their seems to be a lot of interviews for a small number of spots. Does anyone know what the average comlex score is?
 
Kubed said:
But don't lose hope becasue there are people who manage to pull it off. I did it this year, and so did nearly everyone in my traditional intern class. Out of 11 total, 10 of us found categorical pgy2s are are giving us full credit for internship. So keep the faith and good luck!
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Wow, for real? that's awesome! How did you even go about getting info about open spots...just look up program phone numbers on internet and call them randomly or was there an online forum?
Thanks!
 
MSmentor018 said:
you could always use the conversion :eyebrow: scale from the usmle and get an estimate. low end usmle is 210 so comlex is around 620's?? just a guess
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Average COMLEX is around 500. From what I understand, that's equivalent to the USMLE 210-220 score.
 
Einstein in Philly (besides the post earlier) Mt. Sinai in Miami or Doctor's in Columbus Ohio?
Thank you!!
 
allendo said:
Southwest in Oklahoma City. Resident run dept, attendings were malignant, very inbred program, meaning that most of the residents are from oklahoma. Good volume, good pathology, saw a couple of traumas while I was there. Overall the program left a bad taste in my mouth, the residents were pushed so hard to move patients that the students barely got to do anything. Good as a resident, terrible as a student. I felt they had a chip on their shoulder knowing they were the best D.O. program in the south and they let you know it. Oklahoma City is ..... Oklahoma City....
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This is completely different than my experience at SW, granted it's now pushing 4 years. I like Dr McBee and Borin, I know there has been some turn over with some of the attending who moved to Tulsa, but it was the guys who'd been their the longest who let the students do the most. As a 4th year, I did 8 LPs, an incubation, 2 central lines, I&D 3 or more abscess a shift, and the same with suturing. Their didactics are very strong for EM and I damn near went into EM because of this program.

FWIW
 
Can you use SLORs for DO residencies or do they prefer personal LORs? All EM letters or other specialties ok?
 
I figured it was highly recommended, i.e., practically mandatory to get an SLOR submitted as part of your application if you want any chance at most programs. Is there ever a reason not to have one?
 
For osteo, no SLOR is needed. I never had one and got plenty of interviews.
 
I was told by one DO program director that personal LORs were preferred but they would take SLORs as well. I used some combo of two personal LORs (EM attending) and 2 SLORs (EM program director). This probably very program dependent and you should probably just call and ask.
 
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Flushot said:
I figured it was highly recommended, i.e., practically mandatory to get an SLOR submitted as part of your application if you want any chance at most programs. Is there ever a reason not to have one?
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This was my understanding when applying for ACGME EM programs.

My understanding is that SLORs were developed by CORD and to be a full member of CORD the residency directors would be from an ACGME program. So the SLOR is primarily used for ACGME (MD) programs. It seems it would be up to the discretion of an EM AOA (DO) accredited program to place the weight of an SLOR vs personal LOR.

I'm sure people match AOA only using SLORs but when applying to AOA programs I would prefer to have some personally written LORs at my disposal.
 
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EM2BE said:
For osteo, no SLOR is needed. I never had one and got plenty of interviews.
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HunterGatherer said:
This was my understanding when applying for ACGME EM programs.

My understanding is that SLORs were developed by CORD and to be a full member of CORD the residency directors would be from an ACGME program. So the SLOR is primarily used for ACGME (MD) programs. It seems it would be up to the discretion of an EM AOA (DO) accredited program to place the weight of an SLOR vs personal LOR.

I'm sure people match AOA only using SLORs but when applying to AOA programs I would prefer to have some personally written LORs at my disposal.
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Ah, thank you for the clarification. Our EM club recently hosted a panel with some 4th years that matched who made such a claim, so I guess I just ran with it. Only one of them matched DO and he didn't say anything in particular about SLORs.

I can see how in the DO realm this would be more situational, and possibly, the personal LORs might be more weighty.
 
marciah said:
Bump..
Anyone have any info on the above programs? I have rotations at each during my fourth year and would love some heads up on the programs!
Thanks!
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I have not been to either program, but I have met Dr. Beth Longenecker who is the PD at Mt. Sinai and I can tell you she is one impressive lady. She is awesome and really loves to teach. She has worked a lot with the national student chapter of ACOEP and is always willing to help out the students there and answer whatever questions you ask her. She really is a phenominal person.
 
GreenShirt said:
Any info on Port St. Lucie or Beth Israel Newark?
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port st lucie, brand new program this year. was the old program at west palm that shut down. I rotated there in oct and they were in the works of setting things up so no lectures/labs/books...etc. I remember a separate lecture room and on call room for EM residents. the ED is small, staff is also small but everyone is very friendly. experienced docs, 2 were surgeons. the program director is fantastic! not to mention the german guy, he was a blast to work with. mostly elderly patients, few peds. trauma goes to lawnwood. PA runs the fast track. you answer in house codes. cafeteria needs help. in a small town near the beach with snorkeling reef. no airport. overall I liked my rotation but it wasn't for me
 
St John West Shore EM - definitely one big land mine not to step on - if you like attendings who yell, scream, and bully - be my best and suit up with your flak vest b/c you will be in combat with some lethal professionals.
 
Why are DO EM spots 4 years compared to only 3 years at MD programs; what's the major difference in curricula?
 
ahavah said:
Why are DO EM spots 4 years compared to only 3 years at MD programs; what's the major difference in curricula?
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I think it's a holdover from the Internship + EM model. Most places have combined the two into one program, but in order to maintain EM accreditation, are still required certain rotations in 1st year. I think...
 
So are just applied for ERAS again...emailed a bunch of DO programs about spots but I guess I'm doing it a bit early cause they're telling me no spots. Can anyone give me a heads up a possible spots opening up in their programs?

I'm doing my MD-TY year currently at a very reputable place. I will be applying for res 42 and everything is in order so I should get it approved. I'm hoping to get a PGY2 spot in either EM/IM or EM.

Heads up anyone?
 
Just a shout out for my old program. I graduated from Geisinger's EM program in 2009. Geisinger is a great academic hospital in a beautiful mountain setting in central Pa with great schools for kids, and cheap living for residents. Tons of outdoors activities!!

Each year nearly 1/3 of the residents are DO's. The hospital is an AOA internship site so even within the confines of 3 years of residency, DO's get their AOA intern year rubber stamped. You just have to do some OMM stuff online and you have to spend one of your electives doing outpatient Peds/IM. Was a sweet deal for me because I wanted to finish in 3 years, get an ACGME certification (because AOA makes you take oral boards in EM every 10 years...ABEM once ever!!). I also wanted to be able to practice in Pa when i was done, where you have to have an AOA intern year to do so.

Best faculty you can imagine, tons of trauma, reasonably good longitudinal flight experience. I never feel undertrained these days!
 
Anyone have any info on the LVHN program in Bethlehem, PA? Also about St Lukes in Allentown, PA? I see they are nly 10 minutes apart, do they share rotations?
 
IdontTakeCall said:
Anyone have any info on the LVHN program in Bethlehem, PA? Also about St Lukes in Allentown, PA? I see they are nly 10 minutes apart, do they share rotations?
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heard good things about both. LVH is more academic (probably the most academic DO residency) - you can see the # of publications in the last 5 years or so via the cord website.

St.lukes is a lvl1 trauma center. I have worked with multiple attendings who graduated from there - they all seem pretty decent, granted they were new attendings so i'm sure they'll be better with a little time under their belt.

I'll report back more after I do a couple shadowing shifts there...it sucks having only 2 electives before janurary. how am i suppose to match into a residency program? ugh...
 
IdontTakeCall said:
Anyone have any info on the LVHN program in Bethlehem, PA? Also about St Lukes in Allentown, PA? I see they are nly 10 minutes apart, do they share rotations?
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both excellent! you can't go wrong choosing either one. no they don't share rotations, it's actually 2 competitor hospitals. many graduates from one will work at another. the only way to really see the little niches that make it diff is to ask for a day or 2 of rotations (hack, hack....it's flu season) and shadow.
 
I hope those that interview get a chance to post some reviews. I really enjoyed reading the ones on the first page by EM2BE and others. Good luck to everyone this season :luck:
 
Flushot said:
I hope those that interview get a chance to post some reviews. I really enjoyed reading the ones on the first page by EM2BE and others. Good luck to everyone this season :luck:
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I plan to post mine but it might take a little while to get them all organized and coherent.
 
I will too, but I'm waiting until after interview season I can compare them to each other better.
 
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