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Osteopathic EM programs

Discussion in 'Emergency Medicine' started by nutka1111, Sep 27, 2009.

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  1. DrHoffy

    DrHoffy Member

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    Bump..
    Anyone have any info on the above programs? I have rotations at each during my fourth year and would love some heads up on the programs!
    Thanks!
  2. countthestars

    countthestars Resident

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    Hey all...I've got a question about Osteo EM. I see on the AOA residency Opportunities page, there are 43 programs in the country. I calculated the total number of EM spots is about 211 PGY1 spots. Does anybody have any idea of the total number of applicants there are each year? Some programs only have 40 or so people that interviewed and others such as PCOM-Albert Einstein have 160 people that were interviewed. So whats the competition really like?
  3. HunterGatherer

    HunterGatherer HunterGatherer Moderator Emeritus

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    The Opportunities page shows how many interviews were done for each individual hospital when you view the Program info. I can't comment on how accurate that info may be.
  4. countthestars

    countthestars Resident

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    Yea, I figured as much. Do you have any idea of how many applicants there are total in a given cycle?
  5. Akamu

    Akamu

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    I have a question- are most or all pgms in the DO match for EM categorical, or do you need to do a transitional yr 1st? I was looking at some of the residencies for Surgery/Anesthesia and EM, and it seems that there are those in certain states that still require an intern year before the residency. This does not seem to be the case with most of the West coast pgms.
  6. MSmentor018

    MSmentor018 Hooah! SDN Advisor

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    I know EM are all categorical 4 yr programs regardless of what state you're in. I don't know about the rest of them.
  7. Greenbbs

    Greenbbs

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    All DO EM residencies are PGY 1-4's with the PGY 1 year counting as an internship, even though you do 4 mos of EM in the intern year, along with the other stuff.
  8. malariarus

    malariarus

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    will DO programs take someone who's done a trans year as a PGY2?
  9. MSmentor018

    MSmentor018 Hooah! SDN Advisor

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    if you're going from DO-->DO yes, if it's DO-->MD you get some credit for rotations/procedures but have to start over as a PGY-1 again. during my rotations I've met residents that are in both situations
  10. malariarus

    malariarus

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    how about MD trans to DO-EM PGY2? Is that even possible during the match or would i have to get lucky with a "posted position" somehwere?
  11. MSmentor018

    MSmentor018 Hooah! SDN Advisor

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    as far as i know MD's can't enter DO programs even as a trans....maybe an attending on here will chime in?
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2010
  12. malariarus

    malariarus

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    sorry for the confusion..

    I'm a DO student starting a MD trans in june when i didnt match for EM this year. Hoping i could better my chances next year with DO-EM as pgy2?
  13. MSmentor018

    MSmentor018 Hooah! SDN Advisor

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    sorry you didn't match. gotcha, that's a good question....one would think you could since DO programs are all 4 yrs, being the 1st is a transition. contact the program you wish to enter and ask the PD. I know it's very subjective on what they consider is transferable.
  14. Flushot

    Flushot

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    The residency director for Arrowhead's Osteo EM residency said it is possible to go into EM as a PGY-2 from a rotating position and they even take a few from the military every now and then. To be honest, I would look into each specific program just to make sure. You don't want to assume anything.
  15. Kubed

    Kubed Mostly Harmless

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    There are a few things you're going to have to deal with. First, if you don't get your ACGME year approved under resolution 42, than looking at a DO pgy2 year is a moot point. I don't mean to imply it will be a problem, but it's something that you'll want to get taken care of as soon as possible becasue of it's implications for advanced standing. If for some reason the AOA said "no" then you're looking at osteo pgy1 and allo pgy1/2 anyway. Next would be contacting individual programs and talking to them about pgy2 spots. Because every osteo program is now linked, you're pretty much looking for a program is either losing a PGY1 at the end of their intern year, or had a spot that went unfilled. Finally, since osteo EM pgy2's are rare, you'll have to consider the possibility of repeating your internship and thus spending 5 years in a 4 year program...

    ... But don't lose hope becasue there are people who manage to pull it off. I did it this year, and so did nearly everyone in my traditional intern class. Out of 11 total, 10 of us found categorical pgy2s are are giving us full credit for internship. So keep the faith and good luck!
  16. POPS45

    POPS45

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    DO EM looks competitive their seems to be a lot of interviews for a small number of spots. Does anyone know what the average comlex score is?
  17. MSmentor018

    MSmentor018 Hooah! SDN Advisor

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    you could always use the conversion :eyebrow: scale from the usmle and get an estimate. low end usmle is 210 so comlex is around 620's?? just a guess
  18. malariarus

    malariarus

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    Wow, for real? that's awesome! How did you even go about getting info about open spots...just look up program phone numbers on internet and call them randomly or was there an online forum?
    Thanks!
  19. EM2BE

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    Average COMLEX is around 500. From what I understand, that's equivalent to the USMLE 210-220 score.
  20. MSmentor018

    MSmentor018 Hooah! SDN Advisor

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    COMLEX To USMLE Conversion

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]Predicting USMLE scores from COMLEX scores; (JAOA Vol 106, #9, Sep 2006):
    USMLE Step 1 = 67.97 + 0.24 x COMLEX Level 1,
    USMLE Step 2 = 102.2 + 0.18 x COMLEX Level 2,
    USMLE Step 1: Pass = 185, Ave = 200-220, SDev = 20
    COMLEX Level 1: Pass = 400, Ave = 500, SDev = 100

    a 500 comlex on step 1 is 188
    a 500 comlex on step 2 is 192
  21. DrHoffy

    DrHoffy Member

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    Einstein in Philly (besides the post earlier) Mt. Sinai in Miami or Doctor's in Columbus Ohio?
    Thank you!!
  22. Hernandez

    Hernandez Paranoid and Crotchety...

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    This is completely different than my experience at SW, granted it's now pushing 4 years. I like Dr McBee and Borin, I know there has been some turn over with some of the attending who moved to Tulsa, but it was the guys who'd been their the longest who let the students do the most. As a 4th year, I did 8 LPs, an incubation, 2 central lines, I&D 3 or more abscess a shift, and the same with suturing. Their didactics are very strong for EM and I damn near went into EM because of this program.

    FWIW
  23. Doctor Bob

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    What did you grow?
  24. GreenShirt

    GreenShirt

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    Can you use SLORs for DO residencies or do they prefer personal LORs? All EM letters or other specialties ok?
  25. Flushot

    Flushot

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    I figured it was highly recommended, i.e., practically mandatory to get an SLOR submitted as part of your application if you want any chance at most programs. Is there ever a reason not to have one?
  26. EM2BE

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    For osteo, no SLOR is needed. I never had one and got plenty of interviews.
  27. HunterGatherer

    HunterGatherer HunterGatherer Moderator Emeritus

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    I was told by one DO program director that personal LORs were preferred but they would take SLORs as well. I used some combo of two personal LORs (EM attending) and 2 SLORs (EM program director). This probably very program dependent and you should probably just call and ask.
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
  28. HunterGatherer

    HunterGatherer HunterGatherer Moderator Emeritus

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    This was my understanding when applying for ACGME EM programs.

    My understanding is that SLORs were developed by CORD and to be a full member of CORD the residency directors would be from an ACGME program. So the SLOR is primarily used for ACGME (MD) programs. It seems it would be up to the discretion of an EM AOA (DO) accredited program to place the weight of an SLOR vs personal LOR.

    I'm sure people match AOA only using SLORs but when applying to AOA programs I would prefer to have some personally written LORs at my disposal.
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2010
  29. Flushot

    Flushot

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    Ah, thank you for the clarification. Our EM club recently hosted a panel with some 4th years that matched who made such a claim, so I guess I just ran with it. Only one of them matched DO and he didn't say anything in particular about SLORs.

    I can see how in the DO realm this would be more situational, and possibly, the personal LORs might be more weighty.
  30. nascardoc

    nascardoc Daddy to 2 kiddos

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    I have not been to either program, but I have met Dr. Beth Longenecker who is the PD at Mt. Sinai and I can tell you she is one impressive lady. She is awesome and really loves to teach. She has worked a lot with the national student chapter of ACOEP and is always willing to help out the students there and answer whatever questions you ask her. She really is a phenominal person.
  31. GreenShirt

    GreenShirt

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    Any info on Port St. Lucie or Beth Israel Newark?
  32. MSmentor018

    MSmentor018 Hooah! SDN Advisor

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    port st lucie, brand new program this year. was the old program at west palm that shut down. I rotated there in oct and they were in the works of setting things up so no lectures/labs/books...etc. I remember a separate lecture room and on call room for EM residents. the ED is small, staff is also small but everyone is very friendly. experienced docs, 2 were surgeons. the program director is fantastic! not to mention the german guy, he was a blast to work with. mostly elderly patients, few peds. trauma goes to lawnwood. PA runs the fast track. you answer in house codes. cafeteria needs help. in a small town near the beach with snorkeling reef. no airport. overall I liked my rotation but it wasn't for me
  33. CharlesCarino

    CharlesCarino Junior Member

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    I did it.....

    I am an oakwood southshore resident.... a few days short of PGY-4

    when i was in your shoes I emailed EVERY single DO ER program director in the nation asking if they had a PGY-2 spot open/opening.

    There where a few spots open/opening up.. visited them, interviewed there, and chose to come to Oakwood. I couldn't be any happier!!

    Our salary is pretty good. 50K as a pgy3, which equates to roughly $1400 every 2 weeks. As a senior we work 15 shifts a month, a mix of 10-12hr shifts. We get a total of 20 vacation days a year and depending on how many residents are working.. you can potentially deduct all 5 days towards the # of shifts you work for that month.... (i.e. 10 shifts with 5 days vacation)

    As a PGY-2 you can start moonlighting almost right away. I started 3 months into my pgy-2 year. One of my classmates started the 1st day after internship. There are opportunities to moonlight at oakwood, taking house call... you pretty much get payed to sleep and rarely have to leave the physician call room. you are basically a glorified intern but you dont do any HP... just sleep!! Also there are tons of urgent care opportunities in the area... and when you feel ready to take on a single coverage ED... we have a few of those too...

    So i got a little side tracked....

    Regarding a PGY-2 spot for next year.... I think we may have 1 or 2 spots open. Two of our residents are leaving. One is changing to oakwood IM and another to oakwood FP.

    As of july 1st we will have 8 pgy-4, 3 pgy-3, 5 pgy-2, and 3 pgy-1's

    If you or anyone has anymore questions about Oakwood EM... feel free to email me...

    -charles

    [email protected]
  34. CharlesCarino

    CharlesCarino Junior Member

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    opps.... you need to be doing a DO internship if you want to come into a DO ER program as a PGY-2.


    this would be a better suited questions for a EM PD....

    good luck!

    check this site often... here is a new program looking for people...

    http://www.saem.org/saemdnn/Home/Co...esidencyVacancyService/tabid/152/Default.aspx


    -carino
  35. CharlesCarino

    CharlesCarino Junior Member

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    I did it.....

    I am an oakwood southshore resident.... a few days short of PGY-4

    when i was in your shoes I emailed EVERY single DO ER program director in the nation asking if they had a PGY-2 spot open/opening.

    There where a few spots open/opening up.. visited them, interviewed there, and chose to come to Oakwood. I couldn't be any happier!!

    Our salary is pretty good. 50K as a pgy3, which equates to roughly $1400 every 2 weeks. As a senior we work 15 shifts a month, a mix of 10-12hr shifts. We get a total of 20 vacation days a year (5 max per month) and depending on how many residents are working.. you can potentially deduct all 5 days towards the # of shifts you work for that month.... (i.e. 10 shifts with 5 days vacation)

    As a PGY-2 you can start moonlighting almost right away. I started 3 months into my pgy-2 year. One of my classmates started the 1st day after internship. There are opportunities to moonlight at oakwood, taking house call... you pretty much get paid to sleep and rarely have to leave the physician call room. you are basically a glorified intern but you dont do any HP... just sleep!! Also there are tons of urgent care opportunities in the area... and when you feel ready to take on a single coverage ED... we have a few of those too...

    So i got a little side tracked....

    Regarding a PGY-2 spot for next year.... I think we may have 1 or 2 spots open. Two of our residents are leaving. One is changing to oakwood IM and another to oakwood FP.

    As of july 1st we will have 8 pgy-4, 3 pgy-3, 5 pgy-2, and 3 pgy-1's

    If you or anyone has anymore questions about Oakwood EM... feel free to email me...

    -charles

    [email protected]
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2010
  36. allendo

    allendo Senior Member

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    I bet it was the dreaded MRSA spiders!
  37. ERratsnake

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    St John West Shore EM - definitely one big land mine not to step on - if you like attendings who yell, scream, and bully - be my best and suit up with your flak vest b/c you will be in combat with some lethal professionals.
  38. ahavah

    ahavah

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    Why are DO EM spots 4 years compared to only 3 years at MD programs; what's the major difference in curricula?
  39. MSmentor018

    MSmentor018 Hooah! SDN Advisor

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    just another year.........on the interview trail I was told by PD's it's the osteopathic curriculum of being more well rounded in primary care/em
  40. daveyjwin

    daveyjwin Senior Member

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    I think it's a holdover from the Internship + EM model. Most places have combined the two into one program, but in order to maintain EM accreditation, are still required certain rotations in 1st year. I think...
  41. malariarus

    malariarus

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    So are just applied for ERAS again...emailed a bunch of DO programs about spots but I guess I'm doing it a bit early cause they're telling me no spots. Can anyone give me a heads up a possible spots opening up in their programs?

    I'm doing my MD-TY year currently at a very reputable place. I will be applying for res 42 and everything is in order so I should get it approved. I'm hoping to get a PGY2 spot in either EM/IM or EM.

    Heads up anyone?
  42. corpsmanUP

    corpsmanUP Senior Member

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    Just a shout out for my old program. I graduated from Geisinger's EM program in 2009. Geisinger is a great academic hospital in a beautiful mountain setting in central Pa with great schools for kids, and cheap living for residents. Tons of outdoors activities!!

    Each year nearly 1/3 of the residents are DO's. The hospital is an AOA internship site so even within the confines of 3 years of residency, DO's get their AOA intern year rubber stamped. You just have to do some OMM stuff online and you have to spend one of your electives doing outpatient Peds/IM. Was a sweet deal for me because I wanted to finish in 3 years, get an ACGME certification (because AOA makes you take oral boards in EM every 10 years...ABEM once ever!!). I also wanted to be able to practice in Pa when i was done, where you have to have an AOA intern year to do so.

    Best faculty you can imagine, tons of trauma, reasonably good longitudinal flight experience. I never feel undertrained these days!
  43. topworm

    topworm Dudeman

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  44. TeamZissou

    TeamZissou PGY0

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    Nice site, all the residents seem very friendly and it has a laid back feel to it. However while trying to procrastinate during class it says I now have insufficient privileges to view the page...
  45. IdontTakeCall

    IdontTakeCall MS IV

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    Anyone have any info on the LVHN program in Bethlehem, PA? Also about St Lukes in Allentown, PA? I see they are nly 10 minutes apart, do they share rotations?
  46. mommy2three

    mommy2three PGY-1

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    Anyone have any info on Chicago?? Please :)
  47. gan911

    gan911

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    heard good things about both. LVH is more academic (probably the most academic DO residency) - you can see the # of publications in the last 5 years or so via the cord website.

    St.lukes is a lvl1 trauma center. I have worked with multiple attendings who graduated from there - they all seem pretty decent, granted they were new attendings so i'm sure they'll be better with a little time under their belt.

    I'll report back more after I do a couple shadowing shifts there...it sucks having only 2 electives before janurary. how am i suppose to match into a residency program? ugh...
  48. MSmentor018

    MSmentor018 Hooah! SDN Advisor

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    both excellent! you can't go wrong choosing either one. no they don't share rotations, it's actually 2 competitor hospitals. many graduates from one will work at another. the only way to really see the little niches that make it diff is to ask for a day or 2 of rotations (hack, hack....it's flu season) and shadow.
  49. topworm

    topworm Dudeman

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    The site is back up. Applications are also due in 2 days, so make sure you get them submitted ASAP, even if they aren't complete!
  50. BklynWill

    BklynWill EM Attending

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    For more info on LVHN you can check out their website http://www.lvhemres.com

    good luck to everyone during this application season

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