Osteopathic EM programs

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ladybug1552 said:
Hi everyone! Thanks for all the helpful info so far.
I'm a 3rd year osteo student and unfortunately my site doesn't allow us to do our required EM rotation until 4th year so I have mine scheduled for July, the first rotation of my 4th year. Other students ahead of me have said that I will get a strong letter from my EM preceptor, but the problem is that there is no EM residency here. Would it be better for me to do an audition EM rotation in July and risk looking green but have the chance to get an SLOE? Or should I stick with my EM core rotation here just to get experience before starting my auditions. I'm planning on doing AOA only.
Also, do people audition in December or is it pointless by then?
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Our advisor also suggested doing a non-residency EM rotation in July to get our feet wet, then 2 auditions at places with residencies in August/September. I decided against this and did EM rotations at places with residencies for July, Aug and Sept to have 3 SLOEs and I felt fine. For your first rotation just say it's your first one, look eager, show up early and stay till they dismiss you and you'll do fine. If you're only doing AOA then show as much face as possible at programs you are interested in, even if it's Dec-early Jan. Can't stress that enough - I only did 2 AOA interviews but they both asked, "Why didn't you rotate here?" and my friends have all said similar things about interviews at places they didn't rotate for the AOA side of things.
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Does anyone know which programs usually contact their top candidates or even if this still common practice among DO programs anymore?
 
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So I'm trying to get a jump on applications for away rotations for upcoming June-Oct months. I've heard some advice to start contacting programs as early as January, but every program I've received a response from says they won't accept apps until March or April. Is this the norm across most osteopathic EM programs? Should I just chill out and quit bothering ppl until the spring?
 
Which of these places this year have been more friendly to students with below average (mid 400s) comlex level 1 scores? I realize there is more to the application than that, but as a third year, I don't have level 2, pe, or SLOEs yet. I know auditions are king, and I'm trying to carefully select places to audition that I may have the greatest chance to match or at least score an interview. Location doesn't really matter to me. I plan on applying very broadly this fall regardless.
 
Relax, people. Candidates are working through their rank lists right now. Audition where you want to be. Apply broadly. Don't be neurotic and don't piss off your nurses. You'll be fine.
 
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ladybug1552 said:
Hi! Another question: Have any of you taken or are planning on taking the NBME EM shelf before applying to residencies? Do they even care? Thanks!
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No one cares, dont take it unless required because it won't help you. When you audition the places that care will make you take an end of rotation test which varies from NBME to SAEM to their own proprietary tests.
 
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Anyone sending letters to programs stating you are going to rank a program highly? Is it OK to be more specific (ranking you 1st, ranking you 2nd)? Just want to make sure this is an acceptable thing to do.
 
Anyone get an email through ERAS from mt sinai? Do they categorize you into "highly likely to match", " likely...", and "ranked"? Thanks.
 
Anyone audition at Doctors? Wanted to get more info on the program.
 
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nickmarb17 said:
Anyone audition at Doctors? Wanted to get more info on the program.
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Doctors Hospital-Columbus Ohio

Shifts- 10 hours

New residents- 8

Salary- 49k

Location- west Columbus, not great area of Columbus

Didactics- Thursday mornings 700-1130. Small group discussions, SIM lab in hospital, oral board cases.

Thoughts- Send out basically any complicated peds case, traumas. 3 pods, residents only work green and blue, adding orange pod (low acuity) shifts. Busy ER, not a lot of procedures, other services come down to take care of their own patients. Good reputation. Fun place to live, lots of traffic.
 
also Doctors is cool because you can audition EM by doing EMS, ultrasound or EM research or just plain EM. So if you're low on ER weeks allowed by your school you can do one of those other rotations and still have ER shifts. The rotation is nice- they let us make our own schedule we just had to work a certain number of nights and weekends and we all just passed a schedule around and picked shifts. The residents are all nice too but overall I think the program is kind of full of themselves especially since anything remotely complicated gets sent out pretty fast or they call someone down to handle it.
Another note is that if you audition your application goes in a separate pile and they don't decide on interviewing you or not until you're there auditioning. The residents evaluate the student they worked with at the end of every shift and they use those evals to help make a decision. A lot of people who auditioned didn't get interviews
 
Thanks. Another question. A lot of programs I have been in contact with are saying they do not know if they will be participating in the AOA or ACGME match yet. Has anyone heard from AOA programs that will no longer be around or that will be switching to the ACGME match?
 
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nickmarb17 said:
Anyone audition at Doctors? Wanted to get more info on the program.
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Doctors is one of the 10 AOA programs with ACGME pre-accreditation status. However, they are keeping there program 4 yr maybe because you don't get to see enough trauma/acuity there. Most cases were very low acuity and zero trauma during my audition. All complicated cases are sent out. Most patients were pain seekers... Their ED is like an urgent care on steroid. Most attendings there liked to please their patients (pain meds were given out like candies esp on night shifts). A few attendings were against writing pain meds to frequent fliers. Junior residents learn mostly from senior residents, not so much from the attending. Their ED also draws a large population of Somalian patients who don't speak English - so your efficiency can really go down on a daily basis. 80% of cases I saw were simply primary care. The program is full of themselves like the other review mentions. Their didactics were pretty much regurgitating facts. Whats odd was that they were very active on Twitter but not engaging in didactics. lol Residents don't hang out outside of ED and don't talk to each other for the most part. Seems to have a division in their group. PD and APD also have issues with some residents while I was there. Some of the residents were bitching about the changes - not sure exactly what the changes were but they werent happy. I was told that one or two resident also transferred out after the intern year.

Adena in Chillicothe is up and coming. It's going to be a 3 yr prgm soon. Only downside is that it's not in Columbus.
 
ladybug1552 said:
Anyone heard anything about Beaumont (formerly Oakwood) in Trenton?
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Beaumont Trenton (formerly Oakwood), Trenton MI

Shifts- 10s at Beaumont Trenton, 12s at Dearborn

New Residents- 4

Salary-50k 1st year

Location- Trenton, MI. 30 mins south of detroit

Didactics- Wednesday mornings. Heavy on board prep ( oral and written)

Thoughts- Rotate at two hospitals, Dearborn and Trenton southshore. Dearborn is busy, very sick level 2, only 2nd years and up work there. Southshore less busy, less acute, also level 2. Lots of procedures especially at Dearborn. Most residents live in Dearborn or Trenton. Most residents have kids, don’t seem to hang out together much. Can moonlight as soon as you get your license. Very big on rotating or picking up shifts to be ranked high.
 
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Good luck to everyone today!! Matched my number 1 !! what about everyone else??
 
Didn't match and surprised/disappointed. Only ranked 3 DO programs. Going to into the MD match with 7 interviews.... what are my chances for matching?
 
geedee30 said:
Didn't match and surprised/disappointed. Only ranked 3 DO programs. Going to into the MD match with 7 interviews.... what are my chances for matching?
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I am sorry. Quite a few of my classmates with very high COMLEX/ USMLE scores did not end up matching at my school. MD match may be harder with 7 interviews. You need at least 12 but a lot of my classmates interviewed at least 15 programs. Also, how many of the 7 ACGME interviews are through auditions? IMO, these courtesy interviews are not as meaningful unless you had an A+ SLOE from them.... I would definitely speak with the school admins and see if you can successfully SOAP.

As for the MD match, there are more spots but there are also more people to compete with; you will be competing with AMGs (MDs and DOs) and IMGs from Caribbean, Saudi, Israel and Europe. I would not underestimate IMGs because they tend to have very high Steps scores (above 90th percentile for most EM candidates). You can also look at the last year match result - only a small % of DOs and IMGs matched.
 
EMDO2016 said:
I am sorry. Quite a few of my classmates with very high COMLEX/ USMLE scores did not end up matching at my school. MD match may be harder with 7 interviews. You need at least 12 but a lot of my classmates interviewed at least 15 programs. Also, how many of the 7 ACGME interviews are through auditions? IMO, these courtesy interviews are not as meaningful unless you had an A+ SLOE from them.... I would definitely speak with the school admins and see if you can successfully SOAP.

As for the MD match, there are more spots but there are also more people to compete with; you will be competing with AMGs (MDs and DOs) and IMGs from Caribbean, Saudi, Israel and Europe. I would not underestimate IMGs because they tend to have very high Steps scores (above 90th percentile for most EM candidates). You can also look at the last year match result - only a small % of DOs and IMGs matched.
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Thanks EMDO2016. Yea I took a risk with the DO match (I had 8 DO interviews) and felt comfortable with 7 MD interviews if DO didn't work out. But now here I am today without a match and trying not to panic!

2 of my 7 MD interviews were places I did an audition rotation.

Looks like there are 4 open EM DO OGME 1 spots for the AOA "post match process" if I decide to change my approach (seems silly, I could have just ranked all 8 of my DO programs). Opinions anyone?

Question for everyone - are all the MD interviews 100% done? Anyone heard of getting an MD interview later by contacting the programs etc.?
 
geedee30 said:
Thanks EMDO2016. Yea I took a risk with the DO match (I had 8 DO interviews) and felt comfortable with 7 MD interviews if DO didn't work out. But now here I am today without a match and trying not to panic!

2 of my 7 MD interviews were places I did an audition rotation.

Looks like there are 4 open EM DO OGME 1 spots for the AOA "post match process" if I decide to change my approach (seems silly, I could have just ranked all 8 of my DO programs). Opinions anyone?

Question for everyone - are all the MD interviews 100% done? Anyone heard of getting an MD interview later by contacting the programs etc.?
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I can't speak for all the ACGME programs, but we had out last interview a while ago and we just had our rank list meeting a week ago.
 
From what I saw on interview broker this year and what was offered through email invites it looked like feb 5 was the last date I saw. 7 is not a terrible number to have and in fact is the average number an independent applicant had that matched. At this point it looks like your options are to scramble the aoa, stick out the nrmp and possibly soap a different position.
 
geedee30 said:
Thanks EMDO2016. Yea I took a risk with the DO match (I had 8 DO interviews) and felt comfortable with 7 MD interviews if DO didn't work out. But now here I am today without a match and trying not to panic!

2 of my 7 MD interviews were places I did an audition rotation.

Looks like there are 4 open EM DO OGME 1 spots for the AOA "post match process" if I decide to change my approach (seems silly, I could have just ranked all 8 of my DO programs). Opinions anyone?

Question for everyone - are all the MD interviews 100% done? Anyone heard of getting an MD interview later by contacting the programs etc.?
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I'd scramble if I were you. Its better to match than not. How long do you have to wait until the offer?
 
geedee30 said:
Didn't match and surprised/disappointed. Only ranked 3 DO programs. Going to into the MD match with 7 interviews.... what are my chances for matching?
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It depends on your stats and the programs you interviewed at. If they are mostly safeties in undesirable areas, you are probably ok. If they are top ranked program and you would consider them reaches, then be safe. I personally wouldn't scramble into an AOA program if you have 7 interviews. You can match into a TRI or prelim easily and could reapply next year.

That said, MD interviews are done and I would assume that all programs have their lists complete. Many of the programs I interviewed at were done mid-Jan, and I got feedback maybe 2 weeks ago from 3-4 programs that their lists were done then.
 
Thanks for the replies guys.

Most of the MDs where I interviewed are "safeties" if you want call them that and mostly not the most desirable places lol. I have strong grades and good (~top 40%) COMLEX/ USMLE scores.

It is better to match... I'm leaning toward trying for MD match though. If all else fails there's the MD scramble and even a TRI year which would basically be like doing a DO match in the first place (4 years for DO EM residency vs. 1 yr TRI + 3 yr MD residency).
 
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EMDO2016 said:
Is it true that residency programs prefer graduating med students to seasoned interns/docs?
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No idea, its probably an infrequent issue and would be best judged on a case by case basis. Some interns are probably better than med students and some med students are better qualified than some pgy1's. Who knows.
 
racerwad said:
I can't speak for all the ACGME programs, but we had out last interview a while ago and we just had our rank list meeting a week ago.
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Racerwad - assuming most programs completed their rank lists last week like you guys, do you think it'll make any difference for me to email the MD programs where I interviewed expressing my interest in their programs? I would really like an MD match and to not scramble.
 
*BUMP*

Hey guys, I am about to schedule some EM auditions for 4 th year. My COMLEX score is not that hot. I was wondering if you guys know what programs concentrate more on personality, ethics, auditions rather than simply high board scores. I just don't wanna waste my audition on a ridiculously competitive EM program. Thanks
 
geedee30 said:
Racerwad - assuming most programs completed their rank lists last week like you guys, do you think it'll make any difference for me to email the MD programs where I interviewed expressing my interest in their programs? I would really like an MD match and to not scramble.
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Would this be at a place you rotated at and they knew you? Maybe, but really unlikely. At a place you just applied to - no effect at all. Sorry.

At this point, I like your idea of sticking w/ the MD match and then scrambling if the need arises.
 
Bumping! Please guys, anyone? Lol

Looking for programs that put more weight on auditions and not much on board scores.
 
Pisiform said:
Bumping! Please guys, anyone? Lol

Looking for programs that put more weight on auditions and not much on board scores.
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Most of them do not care about boards, and most of them like auditions. Most programs will say minimum comlex >500, and many require audition for consideration.
 
Pisiform said:
*BUMP*

Hey guys, I am about to schedule some EM auditions for 4 th year. My COMLEX score is not that hot. I was wondering if you guys know what programs concentrate more on personality, ethics, auditions rather than simply high board scores. I just don't wanna waste my audition on a ridiculously competitive EM program. Thanks
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Is your COMLEX close to 550?
 
Just wanted to stop by and congratulate you guys who matched. Hope you are ending up at the best place for you. I am jealous I have to wait 5+ more weeks.
 
Does anyone know a list of EM locations that do 2 week rotations? I've only heard of Metro in Mi, St Joseph in Warren OH, and Doctors does a 2 week ultrasound.

Congrats to those that matched!
 
Pisiform said:
No red flags. Mainly east coast and mid west
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I'd look in Michigan/Ohio/West Virginia. Do several auditions (2-4 weeks), apply everywhere that doesn't require an audition (I truly mean everywhere), get a SLOE early, apply on time, and have a backup plan.
 
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This Guy said:
Does anyone know a list of EM locations that do 2 week rotations? I've only heard of Metro in Mi, St Joseph in Warren OH, and Doctors does a 2 week ultrasound.

Congrats to those that matched!
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I did 2 week rotations at grandview in Dayton and CAMC in Charleston.
 
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