Osteopathic EM programs

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I agree take both steps, especially now with the merger. I had multiple friends the year above me match with scores in the 220s and the PD said they probably wouldn't have ranked them with just a comlex of 550-600 because they had no idea what it meant. The competition is taking usmle.


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so they matched EM w/ 220's? ughhh I'm feeling very stuck 1.5 months out after taking COMLEX and deep into rotations now...seems like I just dug a hole for myself as far as being able to take Step 1 and getting a competitive score. hopefully, if i apply ACGME to recently accredited and DO-friendly that accept comlex that will be enough?

Is this one of those things where you call the GME of a program and they say, "yes, we accept COMLEX" when in actuality they don't look at it? I called a few ACGME programs prior to canceling and they all told me they accepted COMLEX so that gave me a little comfort in canceling. Man, if i only knew a few months ago what I know now!

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so they matched EM w/ 220's? ughhh I'm feeling very stuck 1.5 months out after taking COMLEX and deep into rotations now...seems like I just dug a hole for myself as far as being able to take Step 1 and getting a competitive score. hopefully, if i apply ACGME to recently accredited and DO-friendly that accept comlex that will be enough?

Is this one of those things where you call the GME of a program and they say, "yes, we accept COMLEX" when in actuality they don't look at it? I called a few ACGME programs prior to canceling and they all told me they accepted COMLEX so that gave me a little comfort in canceling. Man, if i only knew a few months ago what I know now!

Take step 2 usmle if you feel like you can do well on it. Also most ACGME programs will say they will look at the comlex but they prefer the Usmle. Personally, I wonder how many people match at programs with only the comlex in the acgme world now.


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Yeah don't worry about step 1. Take step 2 if you think you can get average or above average. My view is do everything in your power to be the most marketable applicant. I found the USMLE to be a better test of medical knowledge where the COMLEX was, well, the COMLEX


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so they matched EM w/ 220's? ughhh I'm feeling very stuck 1.5 months out after taking COMLEX and deep into rotations now...seems like I just dug a hole for myself as far as being able to take Step 1 and getting a competitive score. hopefully, if i apply ACGME to recently accredited and DO-friendly that accept comlex that will be enough?

Is this one of those things where you call the GME of a program and they say, "yes, we accept COMLEX" when in actuality they don't look at it? I called a few ACGME programs prior to canceling and they all told me they accepted COMLEX so that gave me a little comfort in canceling. Man, if i only knew a few months ago what I know now!

Did you not take it because of the places you called or did the administration at your school reassure you that most places soley take a Comlex...because that's what the people at my school did. They are so misinformed and the students who trusted them took everything they said at face value.
 
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Did you not take it because of the places you called or did the administration at your school reassure you that most places soley take a Comlex...because that's what the people at my school did. They are so misinformed and the students who trusted them took everything they said at face value.

I called 1 or 2 places i was interested in and they said comlex was fine, (but who really knows if that's true.)

our school basically said take usmle if you get an above average score, otherwise it wasn't worth it. (and they CERTAINLY did not make it easy....the extra fees etc are not factored into our cost of attendance.)

I wasn't happy with my UW assements 2 wks out- i was at like 211, which i know is not gonna cut it for EM. we literally only got 2 weeks off for dedicated boards study and even then, I was forced to do 2 days of ACLS training 10 days out...... if i were a problem student i would have gotten an additional 4 wks to study (really fair.) I told them i wasn't happy with my USMLE score and their reply was your COMSAE score was above average and that COMLEX is all you need to become a DO so it is all they are worried about. So, i got 2 weeks and thrown into surgery so i just didn't think there was time for me to improve to where i wanted to be. I'm happy enough with my comlex score and I plan on taking step 2, and honestly, I knew not taking step 1 would hurt be...i just didn't want to seal the coffin with a subpar USMLE. However, I also thought taking Step 2 would put me on near equal footing and from what i've gathered from this thread...that doesn't seem to be the case.

at this point, i think it's time for me to move on because there simply isn't the time for me to get to where I need to be study wise. Guess i'll just accept my fate :hungover:
 
Pardon the naive question but what is the absolute lowest comlex scores acceptable for osteo EM? I'm waiting for my comlex scores and I didn't do so hot on today's step 1 score release
 
Pardon the naive question but what is the absolute lowest comlex scores acceptable for osteo EM? I'm waiting for my comlex scores and I didn't do so hot on today's step 1 score release


That's a question that can't really be answered.....in theory 400, but there are a ton of factors that go into the match for EM


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That's a question that can't really be answered.....in theory 400, but there are a ton of factors that go into the match for EM


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So let's say I get s 450, would I still have a realistic chance at matching EM?
 
Pardon the naive question but what is the absolute lowest comlex scores acceptable for osteo EM? I'm waiting for my comlex scores and I didn't do so hot on today's step 1 score release

I'm in the same boat. I was kinda blind sided by my step 1 score today so now I'm getting a little worried about what my Comlex will look like.


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So let's say I get s 450, would I still have a realistic chance at matching EM?
From everything I heard, over 500 will make you safe. 550+ guaranteed interviews. I don't think 450 is unheard of, you'll just have to work harder for it. Everyone says AOA very much values auditions over everything.
 
Hi guys. I was under the impression that DO programs who were pre-accredited or accredited would be using the ACGME match in September. According to ERAS, all of the osteopathic programs I'm looking at applying to will be accepting applications starting in July. Does this mean they're going through the AOA match? I'm having a hard time knowing which match I should be participating in....FYI I'm interested in places like Lakeland Regional, St. Mary Mercy, Doctor's, Mclaren Macomb, Mclaren Pontiac, etc.
 
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Hi guys. I was under the impression that DO programs who were pre-accredited or accredited would be using the ACGME match in September. According to ERAS, all of the osteopathic programs I'm looking at applying to will be accepting applications starting in July. Does this mean they're going through the AOA match? I'm having a hard time knowing which match I should be participating in....FYI I'm interested in places like Lakeland Regional, St. Mary Mercy, Doctor's, Mclaren Macomb, Mclaren Pontiac, etc.

All of the programs you listed are doing the AOA match the last time I spoke to them. Only programs that are ACGME initial (not pre-accreditation) are eligible for the ACGME match at this time. Specifically, Lakeland is doing both matches. When I spoke to their program coordinator last week she said they are putting 7 spots in the DO match and 1 in the ACGME match. I know Conemaugh and UPMC-Hamot are not doing the AOA match and only doing the ACGME match this year. A couple of the dual programs, though I can't recall which ones, pulled their spots from the DO match and are only doing ACGME. I called most places I was interested in applying just to make sure I didn't get burned on looking over something with the merger. Hope that helps!
 
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Sorry for these questions. Does a 495 rule me out for this specialty? I honestly don't know much about osteo EM so I'm asking here. If it doesn't rule me out would you say I have an above average to good chance at matching?
 
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Nothing rules you in or out! I got a low 400 score, talked to numerous PD's that all said I still have a chance. Just kill the rotations and do really well. I think we are lucky, in the EM world people are more focused on you as a person then a stupid number.
 
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Nothing rules you in or out! I got a low 400 score, talked to numerous PD's that all said I still have a chance. Just kill the rotations and do really well. I think we are lucky, in the EM world people are more focused on you as a person then a stupid number.

I suppose that's good news. It seems like a lot of programs have a minimum of 500 or strongly prefer a 500 to even audition there, I hope that won't be a problem for either of us
 
Has anyone had to contact a preceptor writing a SLOE to encourage them to submit it to ERAS? How did you go about it with out being like "hey can you upload this, its been a month and a half?"
 
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How competitive is the Chicago program? I'm guessing very since it's in a desirable area? Also would you rank it highly in terms of quality of training?
 
I had a buddy that rotated there and like it a lot. Its about half an hour - 45 minutes out of Chicago in the Suburbs but he would take the light rail or whatever they have and lived in the city. He had a good time there and loved Chicago.
 
How competitive is the Chicago program? I'm guessing very since it's in a desirable area? Also would you rank it highly in terms of quality of training?

I rotated there last year and was not happy with the rotation. I never worked with any faculty and I doubt the PD knew I was there; during my interview they were surprised that I was rotating with them. That being said, the area Olympia Fields was cool and the residents and attendings I worked with were extremely nice. I also thought their didactics were very strong. I didn't like the idea that I would be traveling all over Chicago (and into Indiana) to go to different hospitals for my shifts. So overall, I think I'd recommend the program to someone who loves Chicago and will sacrifice their time by driving all over it. I wouldn't recommend an audition though - it seemed like it made no difference (then again, I didn't rank them high enough to find out).
 
I rotated there last year and was not happy with the rotation. I never worked with any faculty and I doubt the PD knew I was there; during my interview they were surprised that I was rotating with them. That being said, the area Olympia Fields was cool and the residents and attendings I worked with were extremely nice. I also thought their didactics were very strong. I didn't like the idea that I would be traveling all over Chicago (and into Indiana) to go to different hospitals for my shifts. So overall, I think I'd recommend the program to someone who loves Chicago and will sacrifice their time by driving all over it. I wouldn't recommend an audition though - it seemed like it made no difference (then again, I didn't rank them high enough to find out).

Hey @Calikiwi did you ever find out why Botsford had scramble spots?
 
Hey @Calikiwi did you ever find out why Botsford had scramble spots?

No, but if had to guess it would be that they didn't rank enough. I personally know of two people who interviewed there, ranked it and ended up scrambling. I also think, from a student perspective, the rotation there was just ok last year. I felt a little lost on what to do and really didn't get to know very many residents - the department is very busy and there isn't much time for socializing. This year, they've assigned students to a senior resident or faculty member so I think they are going to get more out of it and will get to know us better (and therefore rank us higher). I am really happy with my match and my new class. It's a long running program, plenty of high acuity, part of Michigan statewide campus system, no doubts it will merge and plenty of faculty who actively teach while we're in the department.
 
I rotated there last year and was not happy with the rotation. I never worked with any faculty and I doubt the PD knew I was there; during my interview they were surprised that I was rotating with them. That being said, the area Olympia Fields was cool and the residents and attendings I worked with were extremely nice. I also thought their didactics were very strong. I didn't like the idea that I would be traveling all over Chicago (and into Indiana) to go to different hospitals for my shifts. So overall, I think I'd recommend the program to someone who loves Chicago and will sacrifice their time by driving all over it. I wouldn't recommend an audition though - it seemed like it made no difference (then again, I didn't rank them high enough to find out).

Thanks for the response. Any idea how competitive it is in relation to other osteo EM programs?
 
Recently received my step 1 scores and just had a few questions.
1. Are there any programs I will be screened out of?
2. Should I take both step 2 exams?

Comlex 510s
Usmle 200s
 
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Recently received my step 1 scores and just had a few questions.
1. Are there any programs I will be screened out of?
2. Should I take both step 2 exams?

Comlex 510s
Usmle 200s
Recently received my step 1 scores and just had a few questions.
1. Are there any programs I will be screened out of?
2. Should I take both step 2 exams?

Comlex 510s
Usmle 200s

You're 510 is fine bro. But in all seriousness from what I've read, osteo EM is more about your performance and step 2 also matters. I've also spoken to some residents in AOA residencies and they have said they aren't aware of any 500 minimum comlex scores although I am sure some programs have it although not the majority.
 
Hey @Calikiwi did you ever find out why Botsford had scramble spots?
One of my buddies is a senior resident there, it was a problem of not ranking enough people. They are in the midst of a PD change and I imagine they will not repeat the same mistake again. In regards to the program it is a solid program and you will receive good training, they go to baltimore for shock trauma and other good out rotations. The downside is their intern year is pretty brutal taking house call.
 
Recently received my step 1 scores and just had a few questions.
1. Are there any programs I will be screened out of?
2. Should I take both step 2 exams?

Comlex 510s
Usmle 200s

With a 20X step 1 you're going to be screened out of a lot of ACGME places but 510 Comlex 1 should be ok as long as you do well on level 2 and clinical rotations.
 
With a 20X step 1 you're going to be screened out of a lot of ACGME places but 510 Comlex 1 should be ok as long as you do well on level 2 and clinical rotations.


You mean 510 comlex is okay for ACGME or AOA programs?
 
AOA programs.


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Realize that if you take usmle the programs aren't going to look at your comlex for the ACGME side. Multiple PDs have told me that. 220 is a little lower than average. Just make sure you increase your step 2. I'm sure you'll have some bites if you do that.


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Realize that if you take usmle the programs aren't going to look at your comlex for the ACGME side. Multiple PDs have told me that. 220 is a little lower than average. Just make sure you increase your step 2. I'm sure you'll have some bites if you do that.


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What about without usmle, just comlex ?
 
Alright guys, I need some clarification. I thought all this time that having a letter written and assigned to ERAS was a SLOE. Is this not the case?

Help me i'm poor....
 
Alright guys, I need some clarification. I thought all this time that having a letter written and assigned to ERAS was a SLOE. Is this not the case?

Help me i'm poor....


No.. a SLOE is a standardized evaluation form that takes the place of a letter. All SLOEs are LORs and treated the same as a LOR in ERAS. However not all LORs are SLOEs.
 
Where can you find the form for a SLOE? And how important would you say it is? I have two LOR's currently, one from a PD. Would it be a mistake for me not to get a single SLOE?


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It's important. It use to be not so important for DO programs but I have had about 75% of the DO programs say they prefer 1.
 
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This is the official site for a SLOE:

https://www.cordem.org/m/pages.cfm?pageID=3743

And yes, it would be a mistake to not get one.

It's important. It use to be not so important for DO programs but I have had about 75% of the DO programs say they prefer 1.

Thanks, guys! I'm totally flying blind here since our school isn't really providing us any info for these apps and I'm the only one in my friend group applying AOA EM. I appreciate your help! I'll be sure to get a SLOE at my rotation this month.
 
to clear up the Step vs Comlex stuff- AOA programs only care about Comlex. ACGME programs only care about Step, they could care less if you got a 401 on Comlex 1 if you did well on Step 1.
 
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to clear up the Step vs Comlex stuff- AOA programs only care about Comlex. ACGME programs only care about Step, they could care less if you got a 401 on Comlex 1 if you did well on Step 1.
The converse of this is mostly (but admittedly variably) true as well. They couldn't care less if your COMLEX1 was 650 if you got a 215 on Step 1 (unless they have a large # of DOs and are well versed in interpreting COMLEX).
 
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You mean 510 comlex is okay for ACGME or AOA programs?
The converse of this is mostly (but admittedly variably) true as well. They couldn't care less if your COMLEX1 was 650 if you got a 215 on Step 1 (unless they have a large # of DOs and are well versed in interpreting COMLEX).

There are certainly AOA programs, most likely the ones that were previously dual programs, that will have ways they compare. For straight up AOA or ACGME just focus on doing well on their specific test.

I'm not sure how this will change when the merger is complete, but assuming us DO's are still going to have to take both tests for the foreseeable future because the prevailing thought in the ACGME world is that COMLEX is an inferior test (I took them both and kinda agree). Also, I have heard several ACGME PD's reference research that equated Step scores to board pass rates, which is, at the end of the day, the most important thing for them. I guess there is not similar data for COMLEX, so some don't even want to deal with it.
 
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Where can you find the form for a SLOE? And how important would you say it is? I have two LOR's currently, one from a PD. Would it be a mistake for me not to get a single SLOE?


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Oh god, absolutely get at least one SLOE. Its a big mistake to only get general EM letters. I can tell you, without a doubt, 90% of them are copy and pasted letters that people write the same thing for every student. I'm not kidding. I've had multiple candidates on the same interview day with the EXACT SAME letter word for word other than their name, written by a PD of an osteopathic program. These letters are absolutely meaningless. This is the whole point of the SLOE, to force the evaluator to make objective ranking decisions about each student compared to their peers, so there is some actual info that can be gleened from the letter.

This year the SLOE is electronically submitted, which allows CORD to continue to track each authors numbers of where they rank different students in each category. Basically, it just makes it easier to fill out. There's really no difference between this years E-SLOE and the SLOEs from years past.

Here is a link to last years traditional PDF SLOE:

https://www.cordem.org/files/DOCUMENTLIBRARY/SLOR/SLOE Standard Letter of Evaluation 2015.pdf
 
Just finished an audition and was told that they weren't registered with CORD, therefore they couldn't write a SLOE. I was offered a regular LoR.
 
Just finished an audition and was told that they weren't registered with CORD, therefore they couldn't write a SLOE. I was offered a regular LoR.

I don't think any residency programs are "not registered" with CORD...more details? I would question getting any letter from this program, that sounds sketch.
 
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Another residency I am rotating At don't write sloes - typical AOA BS


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This year programs have to register online at the cord site and do it all electronically to track them. Maybe they don't want to register? I would still try to find an old SLOE form and send that to them. A lot of the DO programs don't know or use SLOES.


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Question: i am applying mainly acgme but want to try to interview at a couple AOA programs as well. I haven't applied to any yet though cause I only have one LOR up now and my SLOE won't be ready until early/mid september. Would it still be worth trying to apply to some programs right now and just tell them that the rest of the stuff is coming?


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Question: i am applying mainly acgme but want to try to interview at a couple AOA programs as well. I haven't applied to any yet though cause I only have one LOR up now and my SLOE won't be ready until early/mid september. Would it still be worth trying to apply to some programs right now and just tell them that the rest of the stuff is coming?


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I would apply I got interviews without a full panel of letters.


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Another residency I am rotating At don't write sloes - typical AOA BS


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alright just gonna throw this out there... there is no such thing as a "residency that doesn't write sloes".

They probably told you that because they didn't want to write YOU a sloe.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
 
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