- Joined
- Feb 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,642
- Reaction score
- 10
Tiger, do you know anything about the NSU/Mt. Sinai's dually accredited program in FL? I know you mentioned those three, but I was curious about this one.
Osteopathic EM programs
- Thread starter nutka1111
- Start date
Sorry, I don't know anything about the program and wasn't aware that it was dual. I thought it was was just the 4. I would assume it'd take the COMLEX like the others.
thanks so much! do you happen to know anything about newark beth israel's program in jersey? I believe they are an AOA/ACGME residency as well.
The only thing I know is that they're a PGY2-4 program. I think...
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2010
- Messages
- 265
- Reaction score
- 32
Newark Beth is a regular 3 year program, I interviewed there. They are friendly to DOs from what I understand.
- Joined
- May 20, 2011
- Messages
- 2
- Reaction score
- 0
Anyone have any info on the St. Lucie Medical Center program in Port St. Lucie, FL??
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,642
- Reaction score
- 10
It's a pretty new program, and when I asked around, I think the 4th years I asked got it confused with other Mt. Sinai's, so that's probably why there is little info on it on SDN and on the main website. Thanks for the effort though.
MSMentor rotated there and I posted a bit about it in this thread. Look around, but from what I know, it is a resurrected Ft. Lauderdale program that relocated. This year will be their second class of residents, so it is technically a new program, but it seems like the administration has experience with the region and running a program.
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2005
- Messages
- 504
- Reaction score
- 0
I interviewed at 10 DO EM programs and all allowed moonlighting. Most allow it in the 3rd yr, but its all dependent on the program. Some places have the moonlighting opportunities set up for you while at up others you have to find them on your own. Hope that helps.
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2009
- Messages
- 636
- Reaction score
- 0
Do you usually have to buy your own malpractice insurance to moonlight?
- Joined
- Dec 5, 2006
- Messages
- 329
- Reaction score
- 0
Mt Sinai isn't new. It started in '98. Its also not dual accredited, its only DO. You're probably getting confused with Port St. Lucie.
The AOA requires EM programs to be 4 years so maybe it's PGY2-4 for DOs (matching through the AOA match)?
http://www.opportunities.osteopathi...program_id=130122&hosp_id=119223&returnPage=1
The salary and vacation is only listed for OGME2-4 and then it says:
Not sure if linked would mean you would do EM with Nassau or if it's a linked intern year.
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2002
- Messages
- 43,318
- Reaction score
- 27
Your training coverage won't cover your moonlighting so you either buy your own part-time policy or get your moonlighting employer to buy one for you. (which will usually cut your pay) You'll also want to set aside $$ to cover your tail when you leave (or at least find out for sure if your policy will require a tail or not).
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,642
- Reaction score
- 10
Whoa, I guess I am getting it confused. You're right about Mt. Sinai.
Port St. Lucie is not a dual program but it is brand new (into its 2nd year).
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2007
- Messages
- 1,199
- Reaction score
- 243
this is PSL 1st yr, I think 4 residents but don't quote me on that one. I interviewed and rotated there last sept. this is the same program that left columbia in ft lauderdale back in 08
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,642
- Reaction score
- 10
Oh, I meant that they were going into their 2nd year. I'm just going off their next class that matched this year.
They are still affiliated with the Columbia network according to the AOA site. http://opportunities.osteopathic.org/search/search_details_print.cfm?program_id=187702
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2007
- Messages
- 1,199
- Reaction score
- 243
yeah they just moved from columbia hospital in lox-a-whatcha-mal-call-it, FL to PSL, FL. it's close to the beach and stuart, FL has a barrier reef with decent snorkeling. if you're a military buff there's the navy seal museum north of PSL but small and disappointing. otherwise not much going on in the town
for the osteopathic students who also researched allopathic programs...
what is the best way to go about doing that? Should you directly call the contact information on the websites, or is it okay to e-mail one of the DO residents listed on some of the websites? Just want to see which programs may potentially accept just USMLE step 2...and also don't want to contact someone i shouldn't be bothering and them be like LEAVE ME ALONEEEEE hahaaa
thanks guys!
what is the best way to go about doing that? Should you directly call the contact information on the websites, or is it okay to e-mail one of the DO residents listed on some of the websites? Just want to see which programs may potentially accept just USMLE step 2...and also don't want to contact someone i shouldn't be bothering and them be like LEAVE ME ALONEEEEE hahaaa
thanks guys!
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,642
- Reaction score
- 10
I guess I'll answer it since I'm a dying to do anything but boards studying right now.
This thread is about AOA EM programs, not allo programs, so your question doesn't exactly belong. That said, VSAS was recently opened to DO students, so I would use that if you're planning on auditioning next year, like I am.
I'd research their websites and maybe email a resident. The website often says whether they accept the COMLEX and if it doesn't a quick email to the coordinator works. Personally, I wouldn't call at this point.
I also found EMRA's website to be helpful. http://match.emra.org/index.php?fuseaction=results&searchType=allResidency Their residency directory has a survey for each program that includes whether they take the COMLEX and the # of DOs (currently and within recent years). I don't know how current the information is, but it really helped me zero in on the programs where I'd have the best shot.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2007
- Messages
- 1,199
- Reaction score
- 243
just checked out the EMRA web for my program, I am a DO in MD program. it's not up to date at all !! last year while program shopping I found most web sites were not fully accurate or were weak in descriptions. I am working with another resident and our IT people to get ours up to date and within this year.
best thing is to either find a resident's email and ask directly or call the dept. I definitely remember and it still stands today, when a DO student asks a question regarding comlex, res 42....etc. the reply usually is "i'll forward your question to our DO in the program"
check them all out and see what works for you, DO and MD, good luck
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,642
- Reaction score
- 10
I guess ndocy wanted ways around calling. It seems like the best approach is still the direct approach. I just wish that some residencies had more information about their residents so that you could possibly contact each one separately. For example, Mt. Sinai in Miami Beach has only the general contact info, so you'll have to go through that first.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2007
- Messages
- 1,199
- Reaction score
- 243
good point, I found that very frustrating plus you don't know who you're contacting. at least a small pic/bio would give you a clue on similar traits, school, background....etc. a classmate and I are re doing our entire website (USF/team health) to make it more friendly and easier to chat/answer questions for students
- Joined
- May 20, 2011
- Messages
- 2
- Reaction score
- 0
I'm looking for additional 4th year electives in the fall. My school will only allow 2 regular EM rotations, which I have scheduled. Now trying to fill up the other 2 months I have available. Does anybody know which programs offer EM peds, US or tox rotations??
I know Einstein has tox. I think St. Joseph's in Paterson or Good Samaritan might have peds. I know Lehigh just opened a new Peds ED but not sure if they have a rotation. They might have ultrasound though.
St. Joseph's was one of the programs that really seemed to stress rotating with them so if you're interested doing something there might be smart.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2007
- Messages
- 1,199
- Reaction score
- 243
I believe all EM residences has a tox and peds rotation attached with someone. it may not be in the same hospital but an affiliate, which should satisfy the school's requirement. just call around
u/s is another story. I know st lukes, allentown PA has one. maybe mt siani in miami beach, fl?
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2009
- Messages
- 5
- Reaction score
- 0
Does anyone know which osteopathic EM residencies require you to rotate there in order to get an interview??
I have a competitive COMLEX level I score, but obviously only a limited amount of 4th year rotations that I can use for EM rotations.
I have a competitive COMLEX level I score, but obviously only a limited amount of 4th year rotations that I can use for EM rotations.
Both Fl programs, both OK programs, Joplin Mo for certain.
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2008
- Messages
- 76
- Reaction score
- 0
If you do a peds rotation at Good Sam, you'll spend a week in the peds ER, but you may be able to work something out with med ed. For example, I am on OB/GYN there now, where we are supposed to do one week of GYN surgery, but another student rotating with me was able to do his entire rotation on GYN surgery. You might be able to work something similar out for peds to spend more time in the ER. It's also generally required that you rotate in order to get an interview there, if that is a program you're interested in. Good luck!
There are 3 Michigan programs I am considering strongly. I am trying to use my audition spots as strategically as possible. Is there enough communication and coordination in the MSU programs that I can just audition at one of them and get a benefit at the others? Or should I still audition at multiple ones?
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2008
- Messages
- 1,402
- Reaction score
- 38
It probably depends on which three, are they all in the MSU system?
Yes, all in MSU network
-Lakeland (St. Joseph)
-Botsford (Farmington Hills)
-Sparrow (Lansing)
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2008
- Messages
- 1,402
- Reaction score
- 38
Ah I don't know enough specifics about those programs. Two guys from my school did aways at Lakeland and spoke highly of them. I'll see if I can get more info but I'm also curious to read what others may know.
I interviewed at Lakeland, but did not rotate there.
I was very impressed with Lakeland. If I chose to go DO I would want to go there. I'll piece together what I can remember from interview. I think they have either two or three hospitals that they do most of their rotations at. The main hospital is St. Joe's. It is a level II trauma and does see a fair amount of trauma from MVAs to blunt trauma. There was a little bit of penetrating trauma from Benton Harbor, but not too much. The combined volume of their hospitals was somewhere between 60-70k (40k+ from St. Joes), and these numbers were going up. They did do three off service months (toxicology at Cook County, Trauma in Ann Arbor and PICU somewhere north in MI). They have most of their off service months in the first year. Anesthesia was a sweet rotation, I think the intern said 75-80 tubes. OB/GYN was one of their weakest off services (pretty easy, not many deliveries). The ED months were great because there is only the interns since the first year of the program was this year, so a lot of procedures. That may change as the years go on and more residents are at the program, but the interns now say that procedures should not be a problem. I thought the strongest aspect of the program was the PD Dr. Mancini. I might be a little biased since he came from my school, but I thought he really supported the residents. He already in the first year was making changes and talking about further improvements for next year. Other than that it was hard to tell what other months were like outside of intern year b/c they have no one has done them yet.
Overall the program is new, which can be a risk, but I think allows the next couple of classes to really have an impact on how the program develops, which I think is kind of cool. Affiliated with MSU which means they have nice resources. Also the hospital system is one of two in the state that is in the black, so everything there is nice. The PD is amazing and really supports the residents. The interns all seemed chill and outgoing. The town is small, but had a lot to do if you are an outdoorsy type person. Seemed like it was a program with a bright future.
Personally I had some better fits and choices in the MD match, but I know anyone would be trained well at Lakeland and get a great residency experience.
I was very impressed with Lakeland. If I chose to go DO I would want to go there. I'll piece together what I can remember from interview. I think they have either two or three hospitals that they do most of their rotations at. The main hospital is St. Joe's. It is a level II trauma and does see a fair amount of trauma from MVAs to blunt trauma. There was a little bit of penetrating trauma from Benton Harbor, but not too much. The combined volume of their hospitals was somewhere between 60-70k (40k+ from St. Joes), and these numbers were going up. They did do three off service months (toxicology at Cook County, Trauma in Ann Arbor and PICU somewhere north in MI). They have most of their off service months in the first year. Anesthesia was a sweet rotation, I think the intern said 75-80 tubes. OB/GYN was one of their weakest off services (pretty easy, not many deliveries). The ED months were great because there is only the interns since the first year of the program was this year, so a lot of procedures. That may change as the years go on and more residents are at the program, but the interns now say that procedures should not be a problem. I thought the strongest aspect of the program was the PD Dr. Mancini. I might be a little biased since he came from my school, but I thought he really supported the residents. He already in the first year was making changes and talking about further improvements for next year. Other than that it was hard to tell what other months were like outside of intern year b/c they have no one has done them yet.
Overall the program is new, which can be a risk, but I think allows the next couple of classes to really have an impact on how the program develops, which I think is kind of cool. Affiliated with MSU which means they have nice resources. Also the hospital system is one of two in the state that is in the black, so everything there is nice. The PD is amazing and really supports the residents. The interns all seemed chill and outgoing. The town is small, but had a lot to do if you are an outdoorsy type person. Seemed like it was a program with a bright future.
Personally I had some better fits and choices in the MD match, but I know anyone would be trained well at Lakeland and get a great residency experience.
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2007
- Messages
- 142
- Reaction score
- 0
So I have posted this as a main heading but thought maybe I would get more info on the DO EM residency page.
Does anyone know much about Genesys Regional Medical Center in Grand Blanc, MI?
Does anyone know much about Genesys Regional Medical Center in Grand Blanc, MI?
Thanks for the great review, it really helps.
One question, what does "in the black" mean?
My knowledge come strictly from online research, so it may not be any different than what you have seen.
-Dual accredited
-intense internship year (which could be good or bad based on what you are looking for)
-20 shifts/mo
-Level II
-I have not been to the area so I cannot speak on that, but I have heard mixed reviews on it. Some have spoken highly of it, describing it as a nice community. Others are not so fond of it.
Last edited:
In the black just means profitable. Businesses are either "in the black" or "in the red." I am pretty sure its where the term "black friday" came from. That day all of the stores finally made it into "the black" or made a profit. Many hospitals operate at a loss. Usually hospitals that operate with a profit have better funding which can sometimes give the residency program more resources.
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2005
- Messages
- 21,376
- Reaction score
- 17,903
It comes from the days when accounting was done by hand in ledger books and a positive balance was noted in black ink while a negative balance was noted in red ink (to scare those who read it). "In the red" is a synonym for having a deficit or negative cash outflow.
That makes sense. Thanks.
I auditioned at Doctors-It was my first EM rotation and I really liked it it. They take 8 residents a year, they do stress auditioning if you want to match there but there are always a few people that match that didn't.
Some things I liked about Doctors: They have a new ED so it is pretty well equipped and I liked how it was set up in pods, the residents and attendings were really nice and most were excited to teach, I got to do quite a few procedures there, their didactics were pretty strong.
Things I didn't like: They are not a trauma center so anything "cool" cools down the street to Grant hospital and I ended up seeing a lot of primary care type issues. Also, there is a big somali population in Columbus so there was a language barrier with a lot of patients. They also don't have a peds ER so you don't get that experience. The hospital itself is small, I believe 200 beds. One other thing was that there are SO many other residencies at Doctors that what you get to do gets a little limited because each specialty comes down and does their procedures (ortho, ENT, etc).
I did a 2 week audition at Genesys. They are one of the 4 dually accredited programs, they are a level II trauma center but we only had 2-3 trauma alerts during my time there.
Grand Blanc is a little separated from the Detroit metropolitan area, it is a small town with nothing much there really, there is a starbucks and a few restaurants and Flint is about 20 mins away. It was not a town for me, but I am sure living there would not be too bad since you are only an hour or so away from Detroit.
They were relatively busy while I was there. Everyone there was really nice and the attendings were pretty awesome too. They do like you to rotate there but I think all DO programs do. They went from 6 spots to 5 this year, I believe. They don't have set DO vs MD spots and it varies each year.
I don't know about the "intense" intern year, because I don't think any intern year is easy. They all seemed pretty happy.
Let me know if you have specific questions
LAKELAND: I rotated there for neurology but not for EM. I did interview there and I think the other response to this is right on about it. I was just skeptical of it being a new program but it definitely seems like they have it together and a few years down it will definitely be a desirable program. I think they took 6 residents this year and there is talk of expanding the program. They were supposed to start a gen surgery residency this yr but put that on hold last minute. I think they will also be starting derm next year. Some things to keep in mind would be that even tho they are part of the statewide campus for MSU, it is a few hours away from Troy where they have their monthly lecture/labs so you will be watching those either via streaming or driving down there. It is a new program, so expect things to change and some things to be uncertain. There really isn't much in the area but the lake is absolutely gorgeous and Chicago is only 90 mins away. I really liked their PD and the residents all seemed great and very happy. They keep pretty busy because of the large area that they cover. They did not seem to mind if you didn't rotate there but it always does help.
Botsford: Did not rotate here so did not get an interview. I know they do take some students that don't rotate there. From what I have heard it can be malignant but again, personally don't know much about it.
Sparrow: This is one of the 4 dually accredited programs. They are very busy level I trauma center. They only take 4 DO students and take them through the NMS match. They are the only dual program that graduates their MD students in 3 yrs but I think that is because of MI's AOA internship requirement. The good thing about the 3 yr MD program was that it wasn't just Carribean students applying (as if often the case with the other dual programs, nothing against IMGs). Their residents go on to very respectable fellowships. You can moonlight starting second year. They also have their residents rotate an Ingham which is a much smaller community hospital, I liked this because then you get the experience of tertiary care as well as a small hospital. Ingham has more residents while Sparrow only has 3 residencies, I believe. You get to do your own procedures. Lansing itself isn't too shabby since they have MSU there.
I interviewed mostly in the MI area so let me know if you have any particular questions
Here are a few general things I wish I had known at the beginning
- There are 4 dually accredited programs currently: Sparrow, Genesys, Albert Einstein, and Lehigh Valley (St Joseph's in NJ is working on it and might already be approved for next yr)
- If you are planning on applying to the dually accredited programs it WILL benefit you to have at least 2 SLORs. All other osteo programs don't care if it is a personal letter or a SLOR but I think more and more will start leaning towards the SLOR.
- Do your auditions (or at least one) at a place that everyone will know so when you have your letter it will be from a name everyone recognizes, this is often not easy (I didn't but I wish I had) but it will score you some major points if the PD you are interviewing with knows the PD that wrote your letter
- Advantages of dual vs just AOA accredited: for me personally, I felt like the AOA programs were mostly at very small community hospitals, had loose regulations, barely any emphasis on research, and were lacking a lot of resources that the dual programs have. Being under the scrutiny of ACGME and AOA makes for some very solid programs. It will also keep options open for fellowships and sometimes even jobs.
- Pick three programs you absolutely would love to be at and audition there. When you are auditioning make sure to make an appt with the PD to just talk about yourself before you leave. Casefiles for EM was pretty good, have your pocket books on hand, keep scissors in your pocket!
- Board scores matter but it really is program dependent. I did not get interviews from any of the smaller programs (2-3 residents/class) and I think those only invite people that rotate there
- if you plan on doing the ACGME match, rotate at at least one big name MD hospital and get a SLOR, USMLE scores do matter. (I took both USMLE and COMLEX and I felt like they always only focused on my USMLE)
- The residency coordinator is the best source of information, they are usually the residency mothers and are great at responding to emails. I always start with emailing them first with questions and they will forward your email to the appropriate person if they can't respond.
- Definitely take notes when interviewing because at the end it will all mesh together!
- it will be over before you know it!
Here are a few general things I wish I had known at the beginning
- There are 4 dually accredited programs currently: Sparrow, Genesys, Albert Einstein, and Lehigh Valley (St Joseph's in NJ is working on it and might already be approved for next yr)
- If you are planning on applying to the dually accredited programs it WILL benefit you to have at least 2 SLORs. All other osteo programs don't care if it is a personal letter or a SLOR but I think more and more will start leaning towards the SLOR.
- Do your auditions (or at least one) at a place that everyone will know so when you have your letter it will be from a name everyone recognizes, this is often not easy (I didn't but I wish I had) but it will score you some major points if the PD you are interviewing with knows the PD that wrote your letter
- Advantages of dual vs just AOA accredited: for me personally, I felt like the AOA programs were mostly at very small community hospitals, had loose regulations, barely any emphasis on research, and were lacking a lot of resources that the dual programs have. Being under the scrutiny of ACGME and AOA makes for some very solid programs. It will also keep options open for fellowships and sometimes even jobs.
- Pick three programs you absolutely would love to be at and audition there. When you are auditioning make sure to make an appt with the PD to just talk about yourself before you leave. Casefiles for EM was pretty good, have your pocket books on hand, keep scissors in your pocket!
- Board scores matter but it really is program dependent. I did not get interviews from any of the smaller programs (2-3 residents/class) and I think those only invite people that rotate there
- if you plan on doing the ACGME match, rotate at at least one big name MD hospital and get a SLOR, USMLE scores do matter. (I took both USMLE and COMLEX and I felt like they always only focused on my USMLE)
- The residency coordinator is the best source of information, they are usually the residency mothers and are great at responding to emails. I always start with emailing them first with questions and they will forward your email to the appropriate person if they can't respond.
- Definitely take notes when interviewing because at the end it will all mesh together!
- it will be over before you know it!
I agree with everything said above.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2007
- Messages
- 23
- Reaction score
- 0
Here are a few general things I wish I had known at the beginning
- There are 4 dually accredited programs currently: Sparrow, Genesys, Albert Einstein, and Lehigh Valley (St Joseph's in NJ is working on it and might already be approved for next yr)
- If you are planning on applying to the dually accredited programs it WILL benefit you to have at least 2 SLORs. All other osteo programs don't care if it is a personal letter or a SLOR but I think more and more will start leaning towards the SLOR.
- Do your auditions (or at least one) at a place that everyone will know so when you have your letter it will be from a name everyone recognizes, this is often not easy (I didn't but I wish I had) but it will score you some major points if the PD you are interviewing with knows the PD that wrote your letter
- Advantages of dual vs just AOA accredited: for me personally, I felt like the AOA programs were mostly at very small community hospitals, had loose regulations, barely any emphasis on research, and were lacking a lot of resources that the dual programs have. Being under the scrutiny of ACGME and AOA makes for some very solid programs. It will also keep options open for fellowships and sometimes even jobs.
- Pick three programs you absolutely would love to be at and audition there. When you are auditioning make sure to make an appt with the PD to just talk about yourself before you leave. Casefiles for EM was pretty good, have your pocket books on hand, keep scissors in your pocket!
- Board scores matter but it really is program dependent. I did not get interviews from any of the smaller programs (2-3 residents/class) and I think those only invite people that rotate there
- if you plan on doing the ACGME match, rotate at at least one big name MD hospital and get a SLOR, USMLE scores do matter. (I took both USMLE and COMLEX and I felt like they always only focused on my USMLE)
- The residency coordinator is the best source of information, they are usually the residency mothers and are great at responding to emails. I always start with emailing them first with questions and they will forward your email to the appropriate person if they can't respond.
- Definitely take notes when interviewing because at the end it will all mesh together!
- it will be over before you know it!
To add to above, Newark Beth Israel Medical Center in Newark, NJ is also a dually accredited program.
Thank you for all the recent posts, it really helps and is greatly appreciated.
Does anyone know about the UNECOM/Kent program in Warwick, RI?
Is it looked down upon if I cancel an audition? Recent feedback has changed my interest and I want to use one of months of auditioning differently.
Does anyone know about the UNECOM/Kent program in Warwick, RI?
Is it looked down upon if I cancel an audition? Recent feedback has changed my interest and I want to use one of months of auditioning differently.
