Osteopathic Pediatrician Refuses to Treat Baby with Lesbian parents

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FutureDO2016

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So this story has been creating a stir today from the suburbs of Detroit, Michigan:

From MyFoxDetroit:

Bay Windsor Contreras is 4 months old and she's the apple of her mothers' eye.

Both of her mothers, Krista and Jami Contreras were married in Vermont in 2012.

In October 2014 they welcomed a beautiful baby bay into the world and were quickly confronted with an ugly reality, one they say from a place they never expected.

"As far as we know Bay doesn't have a sexual orientation yet so I'm not really sure what that matters," Jami said. "We're not your patient - she's your patient. And the fact is that your job is to keep babies healthy and you can't keep a baby healthy that has gay parents?"

Last September when the expectant mothers first met Dr. Vesna Roi at Eastlake Pediatrics in Roseville. She was recommended by their midwife.

"We were really happy with her," Krista said. "The kind of care she offered, we liked her personality, she seemed pretty friendly. She seemed pretty straight up with us."

The Contrerasas were told to make an appointment with Roi once Bay arrived. The baby was born at home and when she was six days old - they went in.

But instead of seeing Dr. Roi, another doctor greeted them.

"The first thing Dr. Karam said was 'I'll be your doctor, I'll be seeing you today because Dr. Roi decided this morning that she prayed on it and she won't be able to care for Bay," Jami said.

"Dr. Karam told us she didn't even come to the office that morning because she didn't want to see us."

The new mothers were shocked, hurt and angry.

"It was embarrassing, it was humiliating and here we are, new parents trying to protect her," Jami said. "And we know this happens in the world and we're completely prepared for this to happen other places. But not at our six-day-old's wellness appointment."

Bay's parents proceeded with the appointment with the other doctor then found another pediatric group for their baby.

"When we started calling other pediatricians my first thing on the phone was, we're lesbian moms - is this okay with you," Krista said.

Still upset, the new moms shared their story on social media. People started calling Eastlake Pediatrics to share their alarm. On Feb. 9, nearly four months after the appointment - the Contreras family finally received this letter from Roi.

The letter read:

"After much prayer following your prenatal, I felt that i would not be able to develop the personal patient-doctor relationships that I normally do with my patients."

"We do not keep prenatal information once we have our meetings so I had no way to contact you."

She apologizes, saying, "I should have spoken with you directly that day," and "please know that I believe that God gives us free choice and I would never judge anyone based on what they do with that free choice."

FOX 2 contacted Roi who said that she could not comment, citing patient privacy laws.

As it turns out, Roi has free choice too - the American Medical Association says physicians cannot refuse to care for patients based on sexual orientation, but doctors can refuse treatment if it's incompatible with their personal, religious or moral beliefs.

And here in Michigan - there are no laws that protect lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender families from discrimination.

"We already don't have laws to protect these sort of families," attorney Dana Nessel said. "And worse, we are considering passing laws that allow further discrimination."

Nessel is one of the attorneys on Michigan's same sex marriage case now headed to the United States Supreme Court. She referred to legislation called the Religious Freedom Restoration Act now in the State Senate, which opponents say would allow people to discriminate based on their moral or religious beliefs.

All the more reason, says Jami, to raise awareness now.

"If they're discriminating against anyone, I would want to know because I wouldn't want to support that doctor, dentist or whoever's doing it," she said. "So we just really wanted people to know - this is happening to families."

And this family, which now has a different pediatrician they say they love, is grateful that sweet baby Bay was only six days old and doesn't know anything about discrimination.

"Hopefully us telling our story can make sure by the time she's six-years-old this kind of thing can't happen," Krista said.


http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/2...=1010665878947624&fb_action_types=og.comments

What are your thoughts??

AOA responded with:

The American Osteopathic Association stands for equal access to health care for same-sex households. DOs shouldn’t discriminate:http://bit.ly/19E2mxB

Members don't see this ad.
 
Here is the doctor from Michigan, the practice is East Lake Peds:

http://www.eastlakepeds.com/meet-the-doctors/vesna-l-roi--do.aspx

Vesna L. Roi, D.O.
Internship and Residency
ST. JOHN HOSPITAL, Detroit, Mi
  • Pediatric Residency
1993-1996
PONTIAC OSTEOPATHIC HOSPITAL, Pontiac, MI
  • Rotating Internship
1992-1993
Education
MICHIGAN STATE COLLEGE OF OSTEOPATHIC MEDICINE
Lansing, MI 1988-1992
MADONNA COLLEGE, Livonia, MI
Major Biology, Minor Chemistry

1983-1987
ASSOCIATIONS
American Academy of Pediatrics 1996-present
American Medical Association
 
As a religious person and as a DO student, I want people to know that this DO does not represent me.
 
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Members don't see this ad :)
My thoughts: horrible thing to do, not sure what it has to do with DO's in general or why it needs to be pointed out what medical degree this doctor has. I know I'm walking a tightrope with the no-true-Scotsman fallacy below but I really don't see what bearing her being a DO has on anything.

It seems you could have easily titled the thread "Pediatrician refuses to treat baby with lesbian parents"
 
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I mean technically doctors can refuse to treat patients that they don't want to treat based on if they don't pay or follow treatment protocol or whatever unless there is an emergency? I mean some doctor's don't perform abortions or write prescriptions for that so I don't think it's fair for the medical community to shun her. She could have just handled the situation better.
 
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Yeah the DO part isn't a big deal, it could have been an MD...I just thought it was weird the AOA responded...
 
Pointing out the osteopathic physician part really doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand....I'm not exactly sure why OP thought this was relevant in the title?
 
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But DOs are supposed to be a professional group that doesn't have weirdos and criminals among them.
 
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I personally have no problem with same-sex couples, transgenders, etc., but if a doctor doesn't think they will be able to provide the appropriate/quality of care a patient deserves for whatever reason, then it is in both parties interest to go somewhere else. However, this situation probably could have been handled better then sending a colleague to explain the the issue.
 
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Doctors refuse patients all the time, but because there are Lesbians involved, the media is going crazy with it attacking the doctor....she went through medical school and residency training, it's up to her to decide who she treats or doesn't treat at her own practice...I mean if it was an emergency at the hospital or something like that then it would be the doctor's fault.
 
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Okay, I get it why people are upset at the doctor for her poor choice in handling the issue. I, for one, am no pediatrician but am considering that route. I don't anticipate having a problem taking in as a patient someone with multiple mothers/fathers/SO regardless of my religious beliefs, but still I was under the impression a doctor can refuse to take in any patient they want for a number of reasons (they cant afford to pay, they are on Medicaid/medicare, they smoke and won't quit, they are on drugs, etc). Is the media hype, therefore, only because this is a hot topic at the moment (LGBT rights) or are there actual laws that the doctor broke when she refused to be the pediatrician for the couple's baby? I would really like to know so I can learn from others mistakes and avoid it in the future once I do become a doctor.
 
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I think it's the doctor's right to refuse to care for that patient.

I also think it's my right to call that doctor a crazy, kooky, nut that I wish didn't hold the degree I'm trying to get.
 
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The doctor can do it. Personally, I find it ridiculous, because I find it goes against the principles of the profession... but they can do it.

How this doctor did it was ridiculous, unprofessional, and disrespectful. She made the interaction about her and not about the patient. You don't feel comfortable, fine, talk to them, explain the situation, locate another physician to take them, and apologize. Hiding, and not even showing up that day to avoid them is ridiculous.

Whatever, though, there are plenty of unprofessional/irresponsible doctors...
 
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She really should have called someone outside her group for advice.
 
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How is this different from physicians that refuse abortions...it's the right of a doctor to refuse a patient based on any reason they want. Poor woman is going to lose her job over this and probably have to move to the middle of no where to get another job.
 
How is this different from physicians that refuse abortions...it's the right of a doctor to refuse a patient based on any reason they want. Poor woman is going to lose her job over this and probably have to move to the middle of no where to get another job.
Good.
 
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There's millions of other pediatricians that would no doubt love to have the lesbian couple and their new baby. I mean it would be a different situation if it was a rural area and this was the only doctor. I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or facetious.
 
Well put. At least she realized her own inherent bias and how it would affect her ability to care for the patient; better the parents find a caring and compassionate physician rather than having their child receive inferior care.


There are several factors at play here: first the AMA and AOA have policies in place. Your specialty organization will as well. If you violate those you may be disciplined or lose your license. Then there are federal and state regulations as well which determine legality. You can refuse to establish care for hundreds of reasons, but once you establish care then there are legal steps you need to take to fire the patient (written notice post-marked, 30 days to find another physician, will see them until that time is up). I'm not up to date on all the reasons when you can decide not to establish a patient-physician relationship, but the greatest variation will most likely be at the state level with unique laws in place - you can see this one as an example: http://www.calpatientguide.org/i.html

Awesome, exactly what I needed to know and very well explained. There seems to be an endless pool of complexity in any field of work, no wonder lawyers are essential nowadays in order to clarify and prevent people from inadvertently committing a crime.

In my opinion, the doctor should have honored her initial commitment to the family by being there for the initial appointment, and then provided a suitable alternative once she realized she could not provide the quality of care the family should expect based on her religious beliefs.

Finally, if she is religious she ought to recall how Jesus, in the Bible, spent time not with the Pharisees or Sadducees, but with the sinners. I hope she can reconcile her beliefs with her practice and welcome people of all walks of life into her care.
 
How is this different from physicians that refuse abortions...it's the right of a doctor to refuse a patient based on any reason they want. Poor woman is going to lose her job over this and probably have to move to the middle of no where to get another job.

How she handled it is the problem here, not that she felt uncomfortable. She didn't handle it well, and this backlash is the result. As ridiculous as this feels, its almost like med schools need to explicitly have a communication class to deal with situations like these. Way too many docs don't seem to know how to deal with and talk to other people. That needs to be fixed.

I get it if someone is tired, busy, etc. it's hard to always communicate well/put in effort, but you should be able to discern situations where communication is that much more important.
 
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How she handled it is the problem here, not that she felt uncomfortable. She didn't handle it well, and this backlash is the result. As ridiculous as this feels, its almost like med schools need to explicitly have a communication class to deal with situations like these. Way too many docs don't seem to know how to deal with and talk to other people. That needs to be fixed.

I get it if someone is tired, busy, etc. it's hard to always communicate well/put in effort, but you should be able to discern situations where communication is that much more important.

Yup, I agree. Had she handled this better she could have avoided all this negativity that will, most likely, cause her to lose her job and move (as mentioned previously). This is sad for everyone involved.
 
Well I'm going to say pretty much the same thing I did in SPF
Is what she did illegal - no. Should what she did be illegal - no. Does it go against my person code of medical ethics, professionalism, and generally not being a crappy person - absolutely.

Personally, I don't think it is right to refuse a patient because you don't agree with something about them (Yes that does mean that I wouldn't refuse to treat a member of the westboro baptist church)
I think she would have saved herself a whole lot of heartache if instead of being chicken**** about it, she had sat the parents down and said something along the lines of, "I want your baby to get the best care possible, and having a close relationship with her PCP is an important part of that, I do not feel as though I am able to provide that care for you, but here are some providers that I believe would suit your needs better"
 
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Her career and her reputation are being flushed down the toilet. She made a huge mistake by upsetting the most powerful group in America today. You can't afford to mess with them. It's that simple.
 
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If a physician sees a patient and bills them for it (or prescribes any kind of treatment, prescription, imaging) the physician-patient relationship has been established and would then have to start the process of firing the patient immediately after the visit (legally). I've seen a physician see a new patient who only wanted narcos for pain and would not even try tramadol so even though they saw the patient they did not make any treatment recommendations or bill for the visit so they could simply say "I will not be your doctor, have a nice day."
So, in this particular case with Dr. Roi, the physician-patient relationship was not established so she didn't need to go through the formal patient firing process, right?
 
Her career and her reputation are being flushed down the toilet. She made a huge mistake by upsetting the most powerful group in America today. You can't afford to mess with them. It's that simple.
quality first post :roflcopter:

Not sure when we became the most powerful group in america, seeing as gay people can't get married in all 50 states, and there are no federal non discrimination laws, we have pretty much 0 representation in the federal government, and it's still a big deal if an LGBTQ person throws a football for a living. Naw, we have allll the power
 
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So, in this particular case with Dr. Roi, the physician-patient relationship was not established so she didn't need to go through the formal patient firing process, right?
I believe she had seen them once before, but I could be wrong
 
.
 
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I believe she had seen them once before, but I could be wrong
The news piece mentions them visiting her once, but if I understand correctly she hadn't billed them for any service. They had a verbal agreement to be seen and a scheduled appointment, but in order to "seal the deal" the doctor had to provide some service that merits a bill, which apparently didn't happen.

I also may be completely wrong on what constitutes a binding agreement between patient-doctor, I am open to correction. My reasoning, however, based on the information from the article and what JRO38 said is that they hadn't established a physician-patient relationship, so the Dr. could refuse to care for them at any time.
 
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I mean media outlets need to stop blowing this out of proportion. They were never her patient and she even recommended another pediatrician at the same practice with more experience. I blame the couple for spreading this story to the media just because that doctor didn't tell them in their face but rather a letter afterwards.
 
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I guess we ought to vilify doctors who reject patients for other reasons as well, right? Abortion, the poor, those who ask too many questions, etc...
Just the dumb ones.
 
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Im sorry but the whole world gets to have their stupid beliefs, so do doctors.

I completely disagree with this doctors beliefs, but I 100% stand behind the right for doctors to have opinions.
 
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I'm waiting for the day physicians will refuse to care for patients who are killers, liars, cheaters, thieves, fornicators too since they are all sins alike. #doublestandard
 
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quality first post :roflcopter:

Not sure when we became the most powerful group in america, seeing as gay people can't get married in all 50 states, and there are no federal non discrimination laws, we have pretty much 0 representation in the federal government, and it's still a big deal if an LGBTQ person throws a football for a living. Naw, we have allll the power
Not just powerful, the MOST powerful. More powerful than Congress. Or the military. You guys are making it real hard to be a proud, knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing cave man these days.
 
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Im sorry but the whole world gets to have their stupid beliefs, so do doctors.

I completely disagree with this doctors beliefs, but I 100% stand behind the right for doctors to have opinions.
It's not about the physicians opinion. If the story is accounted for correctly, which it seems like it is, then the physician deserves every bit of negativity that's occurred. There was no tact used when dealing with this patient, and it seems that she wanted the publicity and to let her opinion be known.

 
I'm waiting for the day physicians will refuse to care for patients who are killers, liars, cheaters, thieves, fornicators too since they are all sins alike. #doublestandard


look I am not even the least bit religious, but the largest double standard that exists is how everyone is just expected to agree that homosexuality should be accepted.

I fully accept homosexuality, but believe it or not there are religions out there that arent your own. People are entitled to believe in whatever religion they choose, and embrace whatever beliefs that come with it.

YOUR beliefs matter just as much as this doctors do
 
The fact that I even need to clarify that I accept homosexuality is kind of proof of this, because if I didnt, you better believe I would get flamed x100 being called a homophobic prick
 
The fact that I even need to clarify that I accept homosexuality is kind of proof of this, because if I didnt, you better believe I would get flamed x100 being called a homophobic prick

... or at the very least self-loathing. :)
 
It's not about the physicians opinion. If the story is accounted for correctly, which it seems like it is, then the physician deserves every bit of negativity that's occurred. There was no tact used when dealing with this patient, and it seems that she wanted the publicity and to let her opinion be known.

]


Patient/doctor interactions are never accounted for correctly in the media.

Its quite illegal for doctors to stand up for themselves for something like this.

Privacy laws forbid it.

These two women could have been scissoring on the exam table, and the doc would be legally required to keep it confidential.
 
Patient/doctor interactions are never accounted for correctly in the media.

Its quite illegal for doctors to stand up for themselves for something like this.

Privacy laws forbid it.

These two women could have been scissoring on the exam table, and the doc would be legally required to keep it confidential.
?
 
It's not about the physicians opinion. If the story is accounted for correctly, which it seems like it is, then the physician deserves every bit of negativity that's occurred. There was no tact used when dealing with this patient, and it seems that she wanted the publicity and to let her opinion be known.

It was the couple who went to the media and gave the letter to the Detroit Free Press:
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/macomb/2015/02/18/discrimination-birth/23640315/
http://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...or-letter-gay-patient-2-moms-letter/23629689/
 
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She did. Through prayer.

She should thank God the PC police haven't charged her with a hate crime.

Maybe that's bc they're too busy patrolling the net looking for non-PC comments, and posting vile comments about the physician and her religion.

Who knows. Maybe President Obama will make a statement tomorrow and demand action from Congress.
 
She did. Through prayer.

ImageUploadedBySDN Mobile1424405940.168450.jpg
 
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