All Branch Topic (ABT) Our ADSOs are incorrect

[vt84]

Our contracts clearly state any time spent in GME does not count towards our ADSO. Yet the time between when we were ordered to active duty and when we started internship have NOT been counted as days served towards our ADSO despite our FYGME contracts clearly stating a start date of 1July. At some hospitals this is nearly a month of service for nothing.

I've been trying to get this corrected and need as many GME orientation schedules as I can get my hands on. If there is one for WRNMMC 2011 it'd be an even bigger help. The army's argument is that orientation was ENTIRELY related to GME without any army specific orientation (APFT, EO/SHARP/AT training, unit inprocessing, SGLI, etc...). Regardless, the contract still doesn't state this time counted as GME or that our FYGME started in June, not July.

Please PM me if you have a schedule you're willing to share!

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[backrow]

So what's the end game you would like to see? Be done with your ADSO a month earlier?

They'll likely just come back and say, as they have, that it's part of GME. The contract you sign for GME is only applicable to the GME world. I'd bet your orders state "report as intern/trainee/resident/etc".

I'll try to think it through better as well, but I have a feeling you are likely trying to fight a battle that's unwinnable and would only apply to some folks (wouldn't apply to anyone doing a 4yr or longer residency, nor anyone who signs multi year pays)

 

[jabreal00]

Every person who has done residency in the military had to report 3-4 weeks earlier for hospital orientation (getting passwords, ID badges, provisional credentialing). Nothing that was done during that time was related to being an military officer (formation, APFT etc). Everything was related to being a hospital intern (ACLS/BLS certified, computer training etc) who was set up to start seeing patients on July 1.

Now if you are quibbling that the one month of hospital training should count towards your time in service I don't think you'll find many people who will be marching behind your call to arms. Most realize this is part of the training towards being a physician which is a life-long career (for most). Now if we were reporting early to do military related duties then you'd have many sympathizers and backers.

 

[Gastrapathy]

This is a ****ty hill to die on. Not worth it.

They have the authority to stop loss your ass for years and you want to fight a giant battle over a couple of weeks.

The Navy can keep you until the end of the next month after your obligation expires. Graduate 1 July? They can keep you until Aug 31. They can also release you 1 Aug with 60 days of terminal leave back to 1 June. Terminal leave is not a right. The other services may have different business rules. I saw a orthopod fight that extra month so long it delayed his separation. I kept my head down, got a 1st of the month departure with 30 days of terminal leave backed into 20 days of regular leave (only 1 day of checkout in between) and it was all good.

The 8th law applies here.

 

[HighPriest]

Along the same lines, I know a guy to whom the Army owed 3 months of back pay. They were going to delay his separation while processing the money that they owed him due to a typo at HRC. And that's in a case where they were clearly and admittedly in the wrong. He actually turned down the back pay.

 

[Homunculus]

This is a ****ty hill to die on. Not worth it. ... The 8th law applies here.

truer words have not been spoken (typed) in the milmed forum. these are two things everyone should remember before taking on The Man. 1) is it really worth it? and 2) nothing mitigates the 8th law.

--your friendly neighborhood gastrapathy fan club caveman

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

8th Law?

Google is giving me multiple answers.

 

[pgg]

8th Law?

Google is giving me multiple answers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_House_of_God#Laws_of_the_House_of_God

8. THEY CAN ALWAYS HURT YOU MORE

 

[WernickeDO]

8th Law?

Google is giving me multiple answers.

Unacceptable, RLA. Drop what you are doing and read "House of God". I thought it was on the med school curriculum but I guess not.

 

[Homunculus]

Unacceptable, RLA. Drop what you are doing and read "House of God". I thought it was on the med school curriculum but I guess not.

what are they teaching nowadays? maybe grey's anatomy has replaced house of god? not to hijack the thread and turn it into a book club, but many of the underlying themes still ring true. i quote the laws to residents and students (and even medics) from time to time. i do wonder though about all the sexploits - my residency experience wasn't anything near that salacious. or maybe i was oblivious to all the shenanigans in the call rooms and such. or in the wrong specialty. or maybe all that sexual harassment training is actually working. lol.

--your friendly neighborhood law obeying caveman

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

Unacceptable, RLA. Drop what you are doing and read "House of God". I thought it was on the med school curriculum but I guess not.

Aye aye, sir!

 

[Gastrapathy]

Its not a great novel and massively oversexed. But the words of the Fat Man still ring true 30 years later.

House of God and The Caine Mutiny sum up life as a Navy physician.

 

[DrMetal]

For Navy: where do we find mention of ou "ADSO"? Im usuhs.... I have a seven year payback, of which I've fullfilled 2. But I don't see any of these numbers, not in BOL(not in the ODC, PSR)... Don't see it in my LES, WTF?

 

[Homunculus]

For Navy: where do we find mention of ou "ADSO"? Im usuhs.... I have a seven year payback, of which I've fullfilled 2. But I don't see any of these numbers, not in BOL(not in the ODC, PSR)... Don't see it in my LES, WTF?

best bet is to contact whatever your version of human resources command ("HRC" in the army) is.

--your friendly neighborhood going on a posting tear caveman

 

[DrMetal]

best bet is to contact whatever your version of human resources command ("HRC" in the army) is.

--your friendly neighborhood going on a posting tear caveman

It's just peculiar because we have a "block" for every other metric, such as our total time in active service our paygrade our date of rank etc. etc. it's almost as if someone forgot to include it, is it even exist?!

 

[Slevin]

For Navy: where do we find mention of ou "ADSO"? Im usuhs.... I have a seven year payback, of which I've fullfilled 2. But I don't see any of these numbers, not in BOL(not in the ODC, PSR)... Don't see it in my LES, WTF?

When I got on AD after med school the contract I signed for residency had a date for total obligation. I'd start there

 

[jabreal00]

For Navy: where do we find mention of ou "ADSO"? Im usuhs.... I have a seven year payback, of which I've fullfilled 2. But I don't see any of these numbers, not in BOL(not in the ODC, PSR)... Don't see it in my LES, WTF?

Contact your local personnel office. In the Army it is our S1. They can look up your ADSO date. Alternatively you can try your assignment officer.

 

[HighPriest]

Your consultant can tell you as well. Part of their job is tracking that stuff. They get their info directly from HRC (or equivalent).

 

[DrMetal]

Contact your local personnel office. In the Army it is our S1. They can look up your ADSO date. Alternatively you can try your assignment officer.

I'm not overly concerned about it, it's just a little peculiar that this isn't tracked as stringently. When a pilot graduates from flight school, he/she has an obligation and that number is apparent in their records and closely tracked.

At USUHS, I remember signing a letter stating that I'd serve 7 years....but that was just an inhouse letter, I never saw it again in any of my records. I wouldn't be surprised if the MC screwed it up and there's really no hard tracking/accountability.....which might make it easier for people to scam out of their obligation.

Not me though....I'm in this shawshank for life.

 

[Gastrapathy]

I'm not overly concerned about it, it's just a little peculiar that this isn't tracked as stringently. When a pilot graduates from flight school, he/she has an obligation and that number is apparent in their records and closely tracked.

At USUHS, I remember signing a letter stating that I'd serve 7 years....but that was just an inhouse letter, I never saw it again in any of my records. I wouldn't be surprised if the MC screwed it up and there's really no hard tracking/accountability.....which might make it easier for people to scam out of their obligation.

Not me though....I'm in this shawshank for life.

Its tracked closely in the detailing shop at PERS. You can get your info by contacting your detailer.

 

[Chonal Atresia]

I'm not overly concerned about it, it's just a little peculiar that this isn't tracked as stringently. When a pilot graduates from flight school, he/she has an obligation and that number is apparent in their records and closely tracked.

At USUHS, I remember signing a letter stating that I'd serve 7 years....but that was just an inhouse letter, I never saw it again in any of my records. I wouldn't be surprised if the MC screwed it up and there's really no hard tracking/accountability.....which might make it easier for people to scam out of their obligation.

Not me though....I'm in this shawshank for life.

HRC initially screwed up my ADSO and told me that I was done in '09 instead of '14. They eventually figured it out but they sure don't seem to have their s$&@ together.

An oldie but goodie about military medicine COLs.....

 

[IlDestriero]

This is a ****ty hill to die on. Not worth it.

They have the authority to stop loss your ass for years and you want to fight a giant battle over a couple of weeks.

The Navy can keep you until the end of the next month after your obligation expires. Graduate 1 July? They can keep you until Aug 31. They can also release you 1 Aug with 60 days of terminal leave back to 1 June. Terminal leave is not a right. The other services may have different business rules. I saw a orthopod fight that extra month so long it delayed his separation. I kept my head down, got a 1st of the month departure with 30 days of terminal leave backed into 20 days of regular leave (only 1 day of checkout in between) and it was all good.

The 8th law applies here.

I did the same and was happy to get it. Went away for 3 weeks, came back for 1 hr, including some goodbyes, watched the truck get loaded and met it a few days later to watch the unload and went away for 4 more weeks of paid Vaca.
Good times.
Choose your battles carefully or watch how they bend you over while others are sipping Mai Tais on the Big Island.