P/F vs grades for OMFS specialization

[Franklo]

I've been accepted too both P/F and grades based school. I know that I want to specialize into OMFS in the future. My question is should I go for the grades based school over the P/F school or does it not matter as long as I do well on my CBSE score and boards?

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[JLT223]

There are way bigger things to be worrying about my friend

 

[Franklo]

There are way bigger things to be worrying about my friend

Could you elaborate?

 

[shaken not stirred]

I was actually curious about this and was going to post the same question.
In addition - on what criteria are OMFS residency programs going to evaluate applicants now that we have ADAT?

 

[BeaverLover]

I read an opinion from a current resident about this, will edit in the link later

 

[Franklo]

I read an opinion from a current resident about this, will edit in the link later

Please do!!

 

[BeaverLover]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/ask-an-oms-resident-anything.876000/page-2#post-11929952

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...residency-or-the-application-process.1024042/

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/uh-oh-class-rank-and-omfs.1095980/

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...w-is-this-combo-viewed.1192302/#post-17615717

 

[BeaverLover]

I tried looking for the specific posts but that was a PITA, regardless all those links are really good reads if you're looking for more about OMFS. Best of luck

 

[Franklo]

I tried looking for the specific posts but that was a PITA, regardless all those links are really good reads if you're looking for more about OMFS. Best of luck

Thanks I owe you one!

 

[JLT223]

now that we have ADAT

The ADAT won't be used for OMFS/won't replace CBSE.....so they say.

 

[fellowstudent92]

The ADAT won't be used for OMFS/won't replace CBSE.....so they say.

Actually it will. There's already a list on the ADA website of specific dental specialty programs accepting and requiring the ADAT at certain schools. On those programs, OMFS is definitely up there.
It won't replace the CBSE, it will add on to it.

 

[JLT223]

Actually it will. There's already a list on the ADA website of specific dental specialty programs accepting and requiring the ADAT at certain schools. On those programs, OMFS is definitely up there.
It won't replace the CBSE, it will add on to it.

If that's the case, that's a bit overkill.

 

[Advance]

If that's the case, that's a bit overkill.

Agreed.
CBSE and ADAT?
Yuck...

Maybe they will use ADAT for 4 year programs and CBSE for 6 year?
I think that would still be a little much.

 

[fellowstudent92]

Agreed.
CBSE and ADAT?
Yuck...

Maybe they will use ADAT for 4 year programs and CBSE for 6 year?
I think that would still be a little much.

It would be terrible but there's quite a bit of material on the ADAT interchangeable with the CBSE i believe. There's BMS on the ADAT as well as statistical type of questions so those would at least overlap.

 

[JLT223]

It's still one more exam and another thorn in your side. Welp.

 

[redmau5]

Actually it will. There's already a list on the ADA website of specific dental specialty programs accepting and requiring the ADAT at certain schools. On those programs, OMFS is definitely up there.
It won't replace the CBSE, it will add on to it.

As of last week, there are 8 out of ~100 accredited OMFS programs that explicitly require applicants to take and submit ADAT scores, so your conclusion above is quite a leap. I'm not saying that the number won't change in the future, and I certainly don't have any insider information at the moment (you might), but it seems like we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

 

[zyzzbruh]

I'd personally go to P/F school and go all in on the CBSE. No class rank = one less thing to stress about in already stressful environment

Do P/F schools still rank students? Their rank just isn't available to students.. I remember hearing that somewhere, not sure if it's legitimate

 

[fellowstudent92]

As of last week, there are 8 out of ~100 accredited OMFS programs that explicitly require applicants to take and submit ADAT scores, so your conclusion above is quite a leap. I'm not saying that the number won't change in the future, and I certainly don't have any insider information at the moment (you might), but it seems like we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

I mean for the purposes of the second/first year and any incoming students, you may as well just go in with the mentality that that number will change and by change i mean increase. This is a pilot year and by the time next year rolls around when the ADAT will really matter, the program directors will have plenty of time to decide to make it required. I don't know, just my thoughts.
Also if you look at which eight it is, parkland (presumably the best?) is up there so I can probably say that the more competitive the OMFS program you want to get into, the more likely it is that they will require this exam as it's another score to look at to further weed applicants out.

 

[jippyslim]

I mean for the purposes of the second/first year and any incoming students, you may as well just go in with the mentality that that number will change and by change i mean increase. This is a pilot year and by the time next year rolls around when the ADAT will really matter, the program directors will have plenty of time to decide to make it required. I don't know, just my thoughts.
Also if you look at which eight it is, parkland (presumably the best?) is up there so I can probably say that the more competitive the OMFS program you want to get into, the more likely it is that they will require this exam as it's another score to look at to further weed applicants out.

I'm really trying to understand how ADAT fits in with OMFS. Right now there is Part I and II, CBSE, and STEP 1. Are they saying that the ADAT will be in addition to the others?

 

[fellowstudent92]

I'm really trying to understand how ADAT fits in with OMFS. Right now there is Part I and II, CBSE, and STEP 1. Are they saying that the ADAT will be in addition to the others?

Ya.
If you think about it, all four of those exams have significant chunks of overlapping material. There's no STEP 1 for dental school.

 

[jippyslim]

Ya.
If you think about it, all four of those exams have significant chunks of overlapping material. There's no STEP 1 for dental school.

I know STEP 1 comes during OMFS residency. If, as you say, they have significant chucks of overlapping material why bother with so many?

 

[fellowstudent92]

I know STEP 1 comes during OMFS residency. If, as you say, they have significant chucks of overlapping material why bother with so many?

good question. Honestly, from what i read about the way the NBDE's were designed and the ADAT was designed, it was because the NBDE doesn't have the capability to distinguish students as it's a test meant to see if you have the basic cognitive function to be a competent general dentist. Both parts are not admission tests--they're competency tests. the ADAT is an admissions test, a predictive test, it's designed specifically to separate the phenomenal from average with regards to specific dental specialties. So while the content tested may be similar, the way they test the material might be the differentiating factor b/t the two tests. It's your DAT equivalent version for residency programs essentially. The CBSE is an indication of how you're going to perform on STEP1 when u get to med school so that's used to see if you have the ability to pass the national boards for medicine but currently it's also used as an admissions exam but the former reason i mentioned (your performance on STEP 1) is really the reason it's used. Case in point, just because the content is similar on multiple exams, doesn't mean that they are all capable of making the same conclusions.

Also if you think about it, the more exams = the more scores the admissions committee can look at to get a better idea of your strengths and the more sure they are of picking you as a candidate or not picking you. for example, if you kill all 4 exams, then i'd say it's a damn good bet that you're just a stellar student and you know your **** and you'd definitely succeed in the program, which is ultimately what the committee wants. More exams equal better picture of your academic strengths.

 

[redmau5]

I mean for the purposes of the second/first year and any incoming students, you may as well just go in with the mentality that that number will change and by change i mean increase. This is a pilot year and by the time next year rolls around when the ADAT will really matter, the program directors will have plenty of time to decide to make it required. I don't know, just my thoughts.
Also if you look at which eight it is, parkland (presumably the best?) is up there so I can probably say that the more competitive the OMFS program you want to get into, the more likely it is that they will require this exam as it's another score to look at to further weed applicants out.

Incorrect; Parkland is actually one of the three programs that elected not to consider ADAT scores. Regardless, everything is speculation at this point. The ADAT may very well become the standard for admission (along with the CBSE), but it's impossible to say if/when that will happen without a conclusive statement from the AAOMS.

For anyone interested, here is a link to the ADAT participation tracker.

 

[fellowstudent92]

Incorrect; Parkland is actually one of the three programs that elected not to consider ADAT scores. Regardless, everything is speculation at this point. The ADAT may very well become the standard for admission (along with the CBSE), but it's impossible to say if/when that will happen without a conclusive statement from the AAOMS.

For anyone interested, here is a link to the ADAT participation tracker.

oh woops i take that back then.

 

[JLT223]

I know STEP 1 comes during OMFS residency. If, as you say, they have significant chucks of overlapping material why bother with so many?

$$$$$$$

 

[arierosa]

Do P/F schools still rank students? Their rank just isn't available to students.. I remember hearing that somewhere, not sure if it's legitimate

Usually they do still rank but don't let you know your position unless you ask. Usually P/F schools also have an honors pass or pass with commendation.

 

[jippyslim]

$$$$$$$

C.R.E.A.M

 

[Scumbag_Steve]

,

 

[Lane138]

GO TO PASS FAIL SCHOOL!!!! if you have the choice and the finances aren't drastically different, a pass fail school will ABSOLUTELY be a happier and more relaxed experience. You will come out equally competent, have equally good CBSE scores if you study for it, and there are ways to stand out in a p/f curriculum that doesn't involve killing yourself on every test to maintain class rank.

 

[shaken not stirred]

GO TO PASS FAIL SCHOOL!!!! if you have the choice and the finances aren't drastically different, a pass fail school will ABSOLUTELY be a happier and more relaxed experience. You will come out equally competent, have equally good CBSE scores if you study for it, and there are ways to stand out in a p/f curriculum that doesn't involve killing yourself on every test to maintain class rank.

What about schools like UCSF that has P/F and H? Would it be disadvantageous to not have many Hs?
Plus, do you think going to schools that are known for producing great clinicians rather than for having ample opportunities to specialize reduce your chances of getting matched into OMFS residency?
(whether due to having limited OMFS seats, or curriculum not reflecting materials covered on CBSE)

 

[JLT223]

If you really want to specialize, you'll do it one way or another if you truly want it and put the work in. It's seriously not worth losing sleep over.