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pay so low?

Discussion in 'Pharmacy' started by pharmasaur, Apr 12, 2012.

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  1. pharmasaur

    pharmasaur

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  2. notafraid87

    notafraid87 Member

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    Out of curiosity, I checked clinical pharmacy jobs...and the pay at Pitt is really pitiful (38-44 per hour). Some of these positions are making me nervous, for some reason.
  3. ImmunoPharmD

    ImmunoPharmD

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    It's the minimum though, probably you wont get paid exactly $39, but that's the established pay rate. Also, I noticed that they prefer pharmD with residency so again that may also factor in pay. If you're a pharmD with no experience you get paid close to the above of the minimum, but if you have experience, you get paid close to $44.
  4. Quiksilver

    Quiksilver Secundum Artem PharmD

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    Starting salary for newly minted pharmacists are decreasing especially in the hospital where they know they have lots of demand and limited supply. I've heard from a few sources that they are starting people out in the 85 K range in some hospitals.
  5. PharmDstudent

    PharmDstudent

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    I'll stay in chain retail, thank you... even if it's loony-tuney.
  6. TonyRx

    TonyRx Hamburglar

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    Yea I've seen and heard the same. It seems like a growing number of students I talk to (all years) are actively pursuing and seeking a Hospital positions and/or Residencies. I can't imagine there are that many hospital positions available or up for grabs. Very high demand and limited supply will mean that the ball is in the employer's court and they can ultimately dictate salary...or slowly lower it as many are doing across the board. But of course, I'm merely speaking to the choir.
  7. WVUPharm2007

    WVUPharm2007 "I hear the WMD is the bomb."

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    I inquired about Mon Valley Hospital in Monongahela...they had an opening...$36 an hour in 2009. I actually chuckled at the director and said, "yeah, good luck with that." I knew the guy. UPMC pays a pathetic amount of money.

    I'm thankful I'm compensated as well as I am by my corporate overlords.
  8. WVUPharm2007

    WVUPharm2007 "I hear the WMD is the bomb."

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    Yeah. Well. It's like pharmacy world 2004 in the residency world now. Seems like there are jobs for specialists. But when 50% of classes go into residencies at some schools...something can't add up, you'd think.
  9. chrispharm

    chrispharm

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    I noticed that very same job listed last night, while looking up RN jobs for my significant other and thought the same thing $39-44hr???

    I would stick to retail before that.
  10. StevePerry

    StevePerry

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    Where is Z at when you need commentary?
  11. TonyRx

    TonyRx Hamburglar

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    Yea you'd think right? I know many students who are barely working or not working at all in a community/retail setting because they are pretty much dead set on getting a residency and/or landing a hospital position. With the high competition, if they don't land a residency/job, they might be SOL falling back on a retail position when they are all taken by seasoned/groomed retail interns with strong track records within their respective companies. But who knows, to each their own and more power to them. I'm content with retail, but actively looking into military (army) as a viable backup.
  12. TemSirolimus

    TemSirolimus

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    I think we should all have some back up plan of some sort. I believe pharmacy as a profession will undergo some changes
    in the next 10 years or so. If anything, the market will surely try to correct itself with the influx of new grads.
  13. pharmasaur

    pharmasaur

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    It just seems TOO low. How much do pharmacists usually get paid, like around 100-110K? I can see hospitals creeping it down to mid 90's...maybe even 90k....but 39/hr is like 80k!:eek:

    This is all in perspective of the cost of education, of course. I still think 80k is a lot of money. But not when my school charges 200k!!
  14. iFarm

    iFarm

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    Nobody should be paying 200k for a PharmD. In my opinion, paying anything over 100k right now is an unwise investment.
  15. notafraid87

    notafraid87 Member

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    But there are many pharmacy schools charging in the 35,000-40,000 range for tuition only. In-state is ridiculously competitive, no surprise. Still think going to pharmacy school is a wise option during this economy, regardless of the cost. Now 250k+ is pushing it.
  16. LarryDavid

    LarryDavid

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    I've been accepted to Touro College of Pharmacy in New York and the estimated cost of attendance (including transportation/housing/etc.) is estimated at around 70+k per year, which is ~ 280+ for 4 years.

    Am I phucked? :(
  17. pezdispenser

    pezdispenser

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    If you are still asking this question, then you are definitely phucked.
  18. pezdispenser

    pezdispenser

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    You really live up to your screen name... I completely disagree with your statement.
  19. notafraid87

    notafraid87 Member

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    No, you're pushing it. But that doesn't mean you're doomed.

    Just go there if you don't have any other options and minimize cost as much as possible (ie cheaper rent, eat less/cheap, work part-time, etc). On another note, I guarantee you that there are thousands of people who wants to be in your position, regardless of the cost of attendance.
  20. notafraid87

    notafraid87 Member

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    Don't know exactly what you're disagreeing about...pharmacy tuition or the job market? I meant to say that it is not unusual to see pharm students with 100-150k in debt, but that shouldn't discourage them from avoiding the profession. But you're a pharmacist, so you know more than I do. I'll see for myself what will happen in the upcoming years.
  21. gotdrugs

    gotdrugs

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    While not an end-all/be-all rule or exactly what the topic here, but regarding is it "worth it" and the dropping salaries..........

    A good rule is not to graduate with more student loan debt that what you will make your first year in the profession you are going into......

    So, good luck to all of those with >150K in debt.

    If pharmacist salaries go down to the 80's/90's, as long as your student loan debt won't exceed that amount, you'll probably be okay and it's still possibly a good ROI.
  22. notafraid87

    notafraid87 Member

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    Hard to argue with this. I also forgot to mention about the salary decrease, which is a huge burden.
  23. pezdispenser

    pezdispenser

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    Sorry, I meant just this sentence that I disagree with, especially the "regardless of the cost" part.
  24. lisinopril

    lisinopril

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    not trying to flame up....but with this trend, I am sure there's always some pharmD accepting 35 dollars/hour, not 39/hr. What are you gonna do when you have a 150K + loan and rough job market? Suck it up.
  25. notafraid87

    notafraid87 Member

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    Yeah I take that part of the comment back...bit too extreme.

    80k salary is still great...but loans are killing me (I'm going to have ~120K)
  26. TonyRx

    TonyRx Hamburglar

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    I agree with you. I'm looking at about 150-175K in loans when I'm all done and that scares the complete sh*t outta me. If I didn't have a wife who earned a decent wage, I might have looked at other professions. Would anyone recommend someone racking up 90-100K of debt for a job that would pay 30-35K per year? Then how can we honestly say that racking up 250-300K of debt for a 90-110K job is any wiser? But, unfortunately tuition is through the roof everywhere and everyone is "chasing the dream".

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to personally disrespect anyone on this forum who might be paying 200K+ for their tuition. I'm just saying stepping back from the role as a student and looking at the reality of the entire situation, it is by no means the wisest investment....especially if you don't have a significant other sharing the financial burden after graduation.
  27. pharmasaur

    pharmasaur

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    I personally got accepted to UCSF which is why I'm considering taking out the massive loans, hopefully going to a school with a good rep will help me find a job and pay everything back...but to be completely honest if I did not get in here I would have turned down my other acceptances and have pursued something else.
  28. Aznfarmerboi

    Aznfarmerboi Senior Member

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    yes you are phucked because your entire salary will go toward paying off your student loans if you graduate. You are even more phucked if you had to ask that question because you have no basic financial common sense.
  29. type b pharmD

    type b pharmD

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    Income based repayment
  30. Aznfarmerboi

    Aznfarmerboi Senior Member

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    Isnt IBR only for Federal government loans? I believe since they set up NY touro as a graduate program, the majority of it is going to be through private loans.

    Ibr is not the answer people!!!
  31. xiphoid2010

    xiphoid2010

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    If it survives. Government has a track record of changing terms, like whats going on with subsidized student loans. I personally wouldnt count on a bailout when planning for the next 25 years.
  32. pezdispenser

    pezdispenser

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    Let's expand on that "chasing the dream" part, because I want to argue against schools exploiting students with this. I still believe in a free market, but one of the problems is there is no real correlation between the cost charged for tuition and the quality of the service (brand new private diploma mills) or the job prospects and salary. So there is huge overvaluation. Then students are using borrowed money and things like PSLF so they don't care how much they spend. This is overleverage. Hmm, aren't these hallmarks of a bubble?

    So when will this bubble burst? Well, the student loan money would have to stop flowing in. The government has increased interest rates to 6.8% and removed several subsidies, but this has had little effect, especially since IBR/PSLF has been made sweeter. So it is pretty much in the hands of you, the student, to realize that you have to analyze this like a financial investment--will it pay off?

    You can't just pay whatever schools charge because they will charge as much as students are willing to pay (see the vicious cycle?). On the other end of the balance, we are starting to see claims of salaries coming down, and unemployed pharmacists, yet some of you choose to stick your head in the sand and not believe them. Well, when you analyze it financially you will see that the balance is turning more and more against pharmacy being a good investment. And once the 'herd' realizes this, the bubble will burst and some of you could be left holding a very, very big bag of ****.
  33. Eichhoernchen

    Eichhoernchen

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  34. type b pharmD

    type b pharmD

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  35. Its Z

    Its Z Retired

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    At the base pay, it's right around that California retail dood who's paying his pharmacists $82K so I wouldn't say $39.60 per hour is that low..

    What you guys see is that $39 is min and $44 is mid. But what you don't see is the top of the scale which I bet is near or over $50 per hour. But they didn't disclose that.

    Also, it being an HIV clinic, they're wanting a PGY2 trained ID pharmacist. And it is an awesome setting for someone who wants to be in that setting. It's most likely a M-F 8-4 cushy position. And a PGY2 ID pharmacist should demand a min $45 per hour.

    I would say it's a sweet gig with a tremendous amount of potential to grow from. Being affiliated with UF and teaching would be fun.

    If you're qualified for this sort of a setting, the quality of life and the professional fulfillment would be much better than slaving away at a retail joint any day.

    :smuggrin:
  36. pezdispenser

    pezdispenser

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  37. schamj01

    schamj01

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    While, of course, you must have money to live, at what point does a person decide he wants to go into pharmacy because it is something that he/she wants to do, not just because of a paycheck.

    I mean, if I were given the choice, I would much prefer to make 120k, 80k still seems pretty good (especially if the job is an 8-4, HIV clinic, exactly what you want to do, etc.). If you can wake up excited about going to work, and still have enough to provide for yourself and your family...it seems like a sweet deal to me.
  38. Quiksilver

    Quiksilver Secundum Artem PharmD

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    IBR eligibility is decided on how much you earn in a year. Over 60 k you aren't eligible. Sorry.
  39. type b pharmD

    type b pharmD

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  40. Its Z

    Its Z Retired

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    Again, I do not have their pay grade since I don't work there nor have done any work for them but most hospitals have different pay grades for pharmacist based on experience and seniority. At my joint we have 5 different grades based on experience and position and the gap is $65000 difference from entry level to Max rate.

    Folks jumping on the bandwagon of "pay so low oh hell I won't go" are only looking at the surface and or just buying into another SDN gloom and doom sensational forum journalism.
  41. Momrowgal

    Momrowgal

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    Not quite, it's a simple linear computation. If the midpoint is 44.10 and the minimum is 39.60 the maximum is (44.10 - 39.60) + 44.10 = 48.60.

    Also, unless there is something exceptional about you, a new hire is generally going to start below midpoint.

    http://www.linkedin.com/answers/hiring-human-resources/compensation-benefits/HRH_CMP/440090-13501880

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505125_...t-your-coworker-makes-more-money-than-you-do/
  42. Its Z

    Its Z Retired

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    Then I would say $48+ is quite close to $50....hardly a chump change. Also PGY2 in ID is hardly no experience. I would start them at the top of the scale. I always started my pharmacists at 25% above mid. You're still not accounting for the potential growth in this position and ability move on to more responsibilities and professional growth that can come from it.
  43. BidingMyTime

    BidingMyTime Lost Shaker Of Salt

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    Whoa. I was working in hospital making $44.00/hr in the early 90's...well before the pharmacist shortage hit. In 2012, that any starting pharmacist job (outside of the military or government) would pay this low is a very bad sign for the future of pharmacy.
  44. Its Z

    Its Z Retired

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    Really? When I was in school in the early 90s CA pharmacists barely cracked $30 per hour. In fact my first pharmacist job outside of CA in the 90s paid $19.75 per hour. Salary increase started around 96.
  45. BidingMyTime

    BidingMyTime Lost Shaker Of Salt

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    Granted I was working in a rural, less desirable location, and it probably was closer to 1995 then the early 90's...still I'm amazed at the difference in salaries.
  46. Its Z

    Its Z Retired

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    The magic number in 1995 in ca which was the highest paying region in the country was$60k per year. So you were an outlier wherever you were.
  47. Jackie B

    Jackie B

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    True but 60k back then was a lot compared to now. Heck my first job when I was 16, just only 8 yrs ago paid $6/hr and I was soooo happy :laugh: Now $6/hr seems so little...
  48. Its Z

    Its Z Retired

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    Pharmacist salary bubble is not only analogous to the real estate bubble it was directly caused by it. Walgreens expansion plans from the 90s envisioned a real estate growth along with prescription business growth. This was fueled by the explosive real estate bubble as new houses and shopping centers grew causing retail chains and mass merchandises to put in a pharmacy wherever they can. This growth halted when the real estate bubble bursted. During this phase I saw my salary more than triple. Hospitals reluctantly had to attempt to match retail salary range. Will pharmacist salary bubble burst like the real estate? Wouldn't you like to know...

    Unfortunately we keep.cranking out pharmacists more than ever while the real estate market quickly shut it down. This is the biggest challenge yet. If you're a pharmacist that can be quickly.replaced by another one who has a pulse, maybe you're at the highest risk group. Im confident that most pharmacistsin inpatient setting will face less salary scrutiny than others albeit there are staffing productivity pressures everywhere.

    Another real estate boom will cure this ill.
  49. danderson

    danderson

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    Indeed, 25 years is a looong time. Just think about it. We'll have gone through a long list of new presidents by then..flying cars will be an everyday reality.. ok, maybe not, but things will be much different, that's for sure.
  50. BidingMyTime

    BidingMyTime Lost Shaker Of Salt

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    Yeah, I'll believe I am an outlier. :laugh: Story of my life.

    I do see the pharmacist salary busting, just like pretty much everything else in this economy. The big problem as has been mentioned, for every college student, but especially pharmacy students is the massive debt load. My very first job out of college was $32,000/year, which was just fine to work on my $20,000 debt. An $80,000/year job with a $150,000 debt is still workable. But if salaries keep fall lower, if finding an actual job gets more difficult, while college debt grows higher....there is a point where its not going to be worth it.

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