Penn state vs downstate vs stony vs st lukes

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anbuitachi

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Anyone have any idea which one of these is the worst in terms of training/fellowship/job? Im trying to cancel one

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Anyone have any idea which one of these is the worst in terms of training/fellowship/job? Im trying to cancel one
cancel downstate - i interviewed it was awful for a variety of reasons.
the other three are decent, with penn state being outstanding (IMO)
 
cancel downstate - i interviewed it was awful for a variety of reasons.
the other three are decent, with penn state being outstanding (IMO)

What didnt u like about downstate?
 
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What didnt u like about downstate?
I didn't like downstate when I interviewed with them last year either, but they had great fellowship placement actually. I was surprised
 
What didnt u like about downstate?

What didnt u like about downstate?

work hours, numbers of calls per months, number of weekends per month, several different equally crappy hospitals, seems like dept is very strapped for money and cheap labor and treats residents as such. the advantages are that it is a major academic center with good training in the end, but i didnt think it would be a pleasant experience and i wasnt too into living in brooklyn and working in that area.
 
work hours, numbers of calls per months, number of weekends per month, several different equally crappy hospitals, seems like dept is very strapped for money and cheap labor and treats residents as such. the advantages are that it is a major academic center with good training in the end, but i didnt think it would be a pleasant experience and i wasnt too into living in brooklyn and working in that area.

actually downstate was the one i didn't want to cancel. i was thinking about penn state/stony lol.. ironic
 
actually downstate was the one i didn't want to cancel. i was thinking about penn state/stony lol.. ironic

Cool, why's that? Penn state and Stony both would seem great to me though. Don't know much about downstate unfortunately. :(
 
I interviewed at Stony Brook last year. Overall I liked it. Seemed like a strong program in many areas as it is the major academic center that far in Long Island. Solid pay and benefits. Major con for me was location (a little far from the city and I was afraid location would be a bit dull) At the time they had an interim chair.
 
I interviewed at Stony Brook last year. Overall I liked it. Seemed like a strong program in many areas as it is the major academic center that far in Long Island. Solid pay and benefits. Major con for me was location (a little far from the city and I was afraid location would be a bit dull) At the time they had an interim chair.

how was their fellowship match list ?
 
Anyone have any insight on the SLR program? How much has the program been affected by recent changes in program leadership/faculty? Is the regional training still a strength?
 
Don't go to SUNY Downstate. Probably the worst by far. If you do a search about the program here and at scutwork, everything negative you read about it is true. Very little has changed over the years, and after the closure of LICH last year and the sudden transition to Lutheran Medical Center, the program has gotten worse.

Except for King's County. After information was publicly posted about how horrible and degrading this program is, County actually changed, likely because County attendings are hospital employees and completely independent from the rest in the program (a single-owner private group with an army of miserable/despicable supervisory attendings and residents as cheap labor in which everything revolves around money). As such, these are the only attendings in the entire program that are capable of doing cases 100% on their own because they actually do work alone sometimes, whereas all the other attendings at Lutheran and University can barely put in IVs, access the Pyxis machine, or locate a laryngoscope. King's County has the best cases (trauma, neuro, liver, peds, thoracic on really sick patients) from which to learn. The attendings changed their attitude and though CA1 year is still rough, as you get more senior you are treated with more trust and respect. They also fight against horrific nurses and ancillary staff so you don't have to. You learn to work as a team, and CA3 year as a leader in preparation for becoming an attending.

East Brooklyn is disgusting. The nearby subway station and streets smell like urine. There's trash/garbage everywhere. During the winter, the sidewalks are barely shoveled or salted. There's broken glass everywhere from broken windows of cars that were vandalized and robbed the nights before. Several residents have gotten their cars broken into overnight while on call. Recently, a resident was robbed in daylight on the way in to work. We get regular emails about students/residents/faculty getting robbed and to be careful. Also, random people walking down the street spit all the time, so there's loggies everywhere, but maybe it's a NYC thing.
 
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Don't go to SUNY Downstate. Probably the worst by far. If you do a search about the program here and at scutwork, everything negative you read about it is true. Very little has changed over the years, and after the closure of LICH last year and the sudden transition to Lutheran Medical Center, the program has gotten worse.

Except for King's County. After information was publicly posted about how horrible and degrading this program is, County actually changed, likely because County attendings are hospital employees and completely independent from the rest in the program (a single-owner private group with an army of miserable/despicable supervisory attendings and residents as cheap labor in which everything revolves around money). As such, these are the only attendings in the entire program that are capable of doing cases 100% on their own because they actually do work alone sometimes, whereas all the other attendings at Lutheran and University can barely put in IVs, access the Pyxis machine, or locate a laryngoscope. King's County has the best cases (trauma, neuro, liver, peds, thoracic on really sick patients) from which to learn. The attendings changed their attitude and though CA1 year is still rough, as you get more senior you are treated with more trust and respect. They also fight against horrific nurses and ancillary staff so you don't have to. You learn to work as a team, and CA3 year as a leader in preparation for becoming an attending.

East Brooklyn is disgusting. The nearby subway station and streets smell like urine. There's trash/garbage everywhere. During the winter, the sidewalks are barely shoveled or salted. There's broken glass everywhere from broken windows of cars that were vandalized and robbed the nights before. Several residents have gotten their cars broken into overnight while on call. Recently, a resident was robbed in daylight on the way in to work. We get regular emails about students/residents/faculty getting robbed and to be careful. Also, random people walking down the street spit all the time, so there's loggies everywhere, but maybe it's a NYC thing.

wow you must feel really strongly about it since it's your first post..
 
I forgot to mention one more thing has changed from the past. For at least the past 5 years, the only tests are the AKT and ITE exams. No idea what monthly exams were from past reviews of the program. If you score low, you get sent letters and have meetings and are made to attend board review sessions. No one has recently been held back for low scores.

This year, the pass rate was 100% for Basic, Part 1, and Oral board exams.
 
Don't go to SUNY Downstate. Probably the worst by far. If you do a search about the program here and at scutwork, everything negative you read about it is true. Very little has changed over the years, and after the closure of LICH last year and the sudden transition to Lutheran Medical Center, the program has gotten worse.

Except for King's County. After information was publicly posted about how horrible and degrading this program is, County actually changed, likely because County attendings are hospital employees and completely independent from the rest in the program (a single-owner private group with an army of miserable/despicable supervisory attendings and residents as cheap labor in which everything revolves around money). As such, these are the only attendings in the entire program that are capable of doing cases 100% on their own because they actually do work alone sometimes, whereas all the other attendings at Lutheran and University can barely put in IVs, access the Pyxis machine, or locate a laryngoscope. King's County has the best cases (trauma, neuro, liver, peds, thoracic on really sick patients) from which to learn. The attendings changed their attitude and though CA1 year is still rough, as you get more senior you are treated with more trust and respect. They also fight against horrific nurses and ancillary staff so you don't have to. You learn to work as a team, and CA3 year as a leader in preparation for becoming an attending.

East Brooklyn is disgusting. The nearby subway station and streets smell like urine. There's trash/garbage everywhere. During the winter, the sidewalks are barely shoveled or salted. There's broken glass everywhere from broken windows of cars that were vandalized and robbed the nights before. Several residents have gotten their cars broken into overnight while on call. Recently, a resident was robbed in daylight on the way in to work. We get regular emails about students/residents/faculty getting robbed and to be careful. Also, random people walking down the street spit all the time, so there's loggies everywhere, but maybe it's a NYC thing.
How do you know everything to be true? Were you a resident there?
 
I usually just read the threads, but I'll throw in my two cents. I interviewed at both SLR and Downstate last month and if I had to cancel either of the two it would be Downstate. I liked the residents that I met at Downstate, but the PD at SLR was a great guy and there just seemed to be more opportunities s/p Sinai merger. Also, SLR has a pretty sweet housing setup.
 
Man, that's bad - if that's the reason.
Not surprising. What person with half a brain would allow a computer algorithm to banish him/her to the Downstate dungeon for four years, to be subjected to the whims of a greedy soul-destroying private enterprise, to serve as a minion to downtrodden, lazy and/or incompetent attendings, to sleep in call rooms with roaches and roach motels lining the walls, to be trampled upon by the worst OR/PACU "nurses" to ever exist (most of them can't put in IVs, remove arterial lines, or spell anatomical words when labeling specimens to pathology), to be told repeatedly that he/she won't find a job in a competitive market or match to a fellowship, to be the subject of gossip/ridicule among attendings who talk **** about everyone including other attendings in the office with the door wide open so everyone can hear, to work in an OB department where the C-section rate is >50-66% because they diagnose non-reassuring fetal heart tracing every time the mom farts and C-sections typically last 2 hours, to be sent all over the city (East Brooklyn, Sunset Park, Bay Ridge, Midtown, Staten Island) scraping for cases, and seriously who wants to be on call and sleep in this toxic wasteland 6 nights per month for the entire time.
 
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Not surprising. What person with half a brain would allow a computer algorithm to banish him/her to the Downstate dungeon for four years, to be subjected to the whims of a greedy soul-destroying private enterprise, to serve as a minion to downtrodden, lazy and/or incompetent attendings, to sleep in call rooms with roaches and roach motels lining the walls, to be trampled upon by the worst OR/PACU "nurses" to ever exist (most of them can't put in IVs, remove arterial lines, or spell anatomical words when labeling specimens to pathology), to be told repeatedly that he/she won't find a job in a competitive market or match to a fellowship, to be the subject of gossip/ridicule among attendings who talk **** about everyone including other attendings in the office with the door wide open so everyone can hear, to work in an OB department where the C-section rate is >50-66% because they diagnose non-reassuring fetal heart tracing every time the mom farts and C-sections typically last 2 hours, to be sent all over the city (East Brooklyn, Sunset Park, Bay Ridge, Midtown, Staten Island) scraping for cases, and seriously who wants to be on call and sleep in this toxic wasteland 6 nights per month for the entire time.
Holy cow!
 
FFP - I did medical school in lower NY. This has been the Downstate Anesthesiology program reputation for YEARS. They frequently lead the state in number of unfilled spots in the Match.
 
Not surprising. What person with half a brain would allow a computer algorithm to banish him/her to the Downstate dungeon for four years, to be subjected to the whims of a greedy soul-destroying private enterprise, to serve as a minion to downtrodden, lazy and/or incompetent attendings, to sleep in call rooms with roaches and roach motels lining the walls, to be trampled upon by the worst OR/PACU "nurses" to ever exist (most of them can't put in IVs, remove arterial lines, or spell anatomical words when labeling specimens to pathology), to be told repeatedly that he/she won't find a job in a competitive market or match to a fellowship, to be the subject of gossip/ridicule among attendings who talk **** about everyone including other attendings in the office with the door wide open so everyone can hear, to work in an OB department where the C-section rate is >50-66% because they diagnose non-reassuring fetal heart tracing every time the mom farts and C-sections typically last 2 hours, to be sent all over the city (East Brooklyn, Sunset Park, Bay Ridge, Midtown, Staten Island) scraping for cases, and seriously who wants to be on call and sleep in this toxic wasteland 6 nights per month for the entire time.

I can't really argue with a lot of this points. You have to be tough minded and motivated to survive here (there's no coddling there). I've never had any issues in the neighborhood nor never felt unsafe. It's funny though graduates from the program, get fellowships and jobs at desirable places all over the country, FWIW (I know :) ).

IMO I wouldn't put this place at the top of your rank list (or middle), but I wouldn't necessarily take it off, if your options are limited. It's a finite period, that will end. Good luck.
 
What about stonybrook? Or north shore lij? Anyone interview there?

Stony brook was entirely too far from NYC..residents made it seem like they were overworked. Otherwise it seemed like a decent program.

LIJ - didn't rank. Didn't like the feel j got from the PD. No residents to talk to about the program. not worth the risk. Really nice hospital though.

Downstate had an incredible fellowship match list...but otherwise people from their medical school don't want to stay there so that tells me most of what I need to know
 
I interviewed at SLR earlier this week, and I was really surprised and impressed. I would recommend you and others attend your interview, if possible. While there were some changes in the past year, the new PD, Dr. Mahoney, was incredibly nice and charismatic, and open to resident ideas for changes. The new chair was really great as well, and both told me they have plan to stay there for a long time and make the residency one of the best in NY. The housing was emphasized, it was decent quality but certainly more affordable than the rest of the upper west side.
Training was (of course) mainly at SL and R, but there were opportunities to go to Sloan and Morgan Stanley, among others, as well. This can be a +/- depending on your interests and desire to travel (albeit a short distance). They also anticipaed an increase in ortho procedures, and more regional experience.
I can't speak to the other programs you mentioned, as I did not apply to those, but I would definitely encourage everyone to check out SLR, especially if you'd like to live in NY for a few years. (Or longer, many stayed for fellowship and then as attendings).
 
I can't really argue with a lot of this points. You have to be tough minded and motivated to survive here (there's no coddling there).
Thanks for the backup.


Unfortunately, this is the reputation. However, much of the info about Downstate posted on here is simply NOT true. Downstate filled all of its spots in the 2014 match. Last year's residents matched into fellowships at Mt. Sinai, St. Lukes, Brigham and Women's, Cleveland Clinic, and NYU. One of the residents last year that did not go into fellowship was able to secure a $500K gig as head of the department at an institution in the Midwest. Downstate is not seen as competitive as the big 4 in NYC, but you can get to where you want to go if you match there.
Yeah so? This year's fellowship matches are also impressive (NYU, Einstein, UCLA, USC, Beth Israel, Sinai,etc). But running a residency program in a philosophical sense, or rather in all practicality a shrewd business as a malignant employer, with the slogan "the ends justify the means" is heinous and indefensible.

The fact that residents end up doing well by getting good fellowships or good private practice jobs is a testament to their surviving hell and coming back alive - not anything else the residency program actually intended to impart upon us.
 
so i ended up going to all 4 of them and cancelled some others instead. Now im having a hard time ranking them. Stony/Penn state seemed like nice programs in similar locations, with nice facilities. However, i dont know why but from what I remember, Downstates fellowship match list was significantly stronger than Stony or Penn states. So now i'm not sure which to value more.. nicer facilities, or a better fellowship placement list..
 
Downstate isn't for everyone, but you will be a great Anesthesiologist once you get through. Nothing is handed to you on a plate. You work hard but not overboard (high 50s low 60s hours wise depending on the month, rarely 70). They have a system that gradually advances the difficulty of cases that works great. Lutheran hospital is basically private and you get an attending like experience there. Kings County, obviously, gets a ton of trauma. GSW/stab wounds. The intern year is geared toward anesthesia as well and you will have good opportunities for central lines/a lines during the ICU month (the downstate ICU is run by the anesthesia department). You do have to have thick skin and a sharp tongue though. The staff are unionized and you have to fight for every order you want. If you want a stat lab you draw it yourself. Everyone's disgruntled and it can wear you down if you allow it to. Overall, though, I am happy and, yes, the fellowship placement has been very good.
 
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