Permanent Residency + Other Issues

[Flash113]

Hey guys,

This is my first time posting here and I really need some input with regards to my situation. I can go on and on about my situation but I will try to be concise and get straight to the point.

I just graduated from a top university in the US with my Bachelors degree. I am a pre-medical student looking to go to an allopathic medical school. I do NOT have a green card, but do have an Adjustment of Status Visa which indicates that I have applied for a green card and my application is pending for processing. So no, I do not have the physical green card in my hand. My green card may come in the next year or may three years - no way of predicting. My stats are not too high either because of certain health problems that I had in undergrad (3.20 cGPA).

Now that I have graduated, I know for a fact if I applied via AMCAS now there is no way I will get in. Not only are my stats not high enough but I also do not have a green card at the moment. From what I have learned, the applicant to medical school must provide a green card copy at some point prior to matriculation (correct me if I'm wrong). This may be pre secondary or upon matriculation. Even if I applied now and said I am a permanent resident, it'll come back to haunt me. I have applied for post-bac programs (some with linkages). As of right now, I plan to apply to to medical school next year following my year long post bac (that gives me almost 2 years for my green card to come in because I would matriculate in 2016). This also gives me time to boost my GPA.

Also, just for the hell of it because there was no application fee, I applied to the caribbeans and was accepted to St. George. Now I have two options - go to a post bac program in the US and apply next year to US medical schools and pray to God that my green card comes in on time (it may or it may not, no one knows for sure but we are close to processing). Or I can go to the caribbean now in less than a month and save a lot of time and not worry about my green card and grades and retaking the MCAT.

There are pros and cons to both situations. Caribbean schools have a stigma associated with it. It is obviously no one's top choice. It isn't my best effort put forth. I don't want to live with the regret of not trying to get into a US medical school. But in the long run waiting a few years doesn't matter too much and going to medical school in the US sounds enticing and is a bigger accomplishment. But going to the caribbean also seems practical and has less hassles. There's always the concern whether my green card will even come in on time even if I did stall and do the post bac. Should I wait? Bolster my resume? Or should I just drop everything and not worry about post bac and retaking MCAT and just go to ross? Any thoughts? Also, another question to consider is whether my GPA, in spite of doing a post bac,will go up to a point where I am competitive enough for US med schools.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Euxox]

From what I have learned, the applicant to medical school must provide a green card copy at some point prior to matriculation (correct me if I'm wrong).

Wrong, at least at most schools. Many med schools take a small number of international students every year (international meaning those who only have a student visa and not a greencard.) That said, most schools that take international students matriculate only 1 - 5 per year, and this makes admission as an international student extremely competitive. If you are applying with a 3.20 GPA as an international, you are pretty much guaranteed a rejection at every school.

Or I can go to the caribbean now in less than a month and save a lot of time and not worry about my green card and grades and retaking the MCAT

The Caribbean is not practical:
Be Careful About Caribbean Medical Schools
MD vs DO vs Caribbean: Hard Facts and Statistics
Carib Schools and Future Residency Problems
The Cost of Caribbean Medical School

My advice for you is to retake the MCAT and retake some classes so that you can take advantage of the DO school grade replacement policy. Yes, you might have to wait another year or two before applying, but it beats spending four years and hundreds of thousands of dollars at a Caribbean school and then failing to match.

 

[allantois]

I can't comment on all med school nationwide but every MD school in my state (and there are 7 of them) requires all matriculants to either be a citizen or a permanent resident, in the later case they all want to see a copy of your green card. DO schools seem to be more flexible about this citizenship issue.

 

[Euxox]

I can't comment on all med school nationwide but every MD school in my state (and there are 7 of them) requires all matriculants to either be a citizen or a permanent resident, in the later case they all want to see a copy of your green card. DO schools seem to be more flexible about this citizenship issue.

That might be a region-specific thing. There are about sixty MD schools in the US that don't require a greencard. (Full list) I know that there are also at least a few DO schools that don't require a greencard, but I'm not sure how many or which ones.

 

[allantois]

That might be a region-specific thing. There are about sixty MD schools in the US that don't require a greencard. (Full list) I know that there are also at least a few DO schools that don't require a greencard, but I'm not sure how many or which ones.

The list you provided lists DO schools as well I was always under impression that internationals are not admitted but that's because I never looked beyond my state.

 

[Euxox]

The list you provided lists DO schools as well

Nice catch! "Alternative medicine" is a weird heading for DO schools. I thought they were referring to NDs and such.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Nice catch! "Alternative medicine" is a weird heading for DO schools. I thought they were referring to NDs and such.

Lol. I wish I knew about those alternative doctors when I actually needed one.

OP, you might be better off when the green card arrives. It may give you more opportunities in terms of funding. Also, you can use the time to bolster your app with post bacc classes, EC's, research, etc. I feel that it's always better to have more options, even if you have to wait for a bit.

 

[Mad Jack]

Nice catch! "Alternative medicine" is a weird heading for DO schools. I thought they were referring to NDs and such.

Bone magic, dude. We're as alternative as it gets.

 

[Dullhead]

...But going to the caribbean also seems practical and has less hassles...

I doubt this option will be hassle free. It will carry hassles such as the requirement to apply for, and obtain a reentry permit or a returning resident visa, and the danger that despite having the permit, an officer at the port of entry can determine you to have abandoned your PR status because you basically decided to reside outside the country for an extended period of time immediately after receiving it. Is an attorney helping you through the AOS process? If so, what does (s)he say?

http://www.uscis.gov/green-card/after-green-card-granted

 

[allantois]

I doubt this option will be hassle free. It will carry hassles such as the requirement to apply for, and obtain a reentry permit or a returning resident visa, and the danger that despite having the permit, an officer at the port of entry can determine you to have abandoned your PR status because you basically decided to reside outside the country for an extended period of time immediately after receiving it. Is an attorney helping you through the AOS process? If so, what does (s)he say?

http://www.uscis.gov/green-card/after-green-card-granted

VERY good point! You CANNOT as a green card holder reside outside of US for more than 6 month in any given year. Your permanent resident's status will be revoked by the immigration officer in the airport. You should absolutely consult with an immigration attorney about your issue.

 

[Dullhead]

You will be outside the US for 2 years, which means that re-entry permits won't work. You'll need a returning resident visa. See the last bullet (copied below) under the paragraph "Required Documentation" at
http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/immigrate/types/returning-residents.html

• Proof that your protracted stay outside of the United States was for reasons beyond your control (Examples: medical incapacitation, employment with a U.S. company, etc.)

I doubt that choosing to go to the Caribbean for school can be claimed as a reason "beyond your control". Definitely consult your attorney.

 

[kyamh]

If I were you, I would wait for the green card. Even if it takes 3 years, it's not the end of the world. Consider other scenarios:

You go Caribbean and then don't match.

You wait for a year, don't get residency, then apply as "international" and don't get in because your stats are too low for an international applicant. Then you're a reapplicant, out $1-3k, and already 2/3 years from getting permanent residency.

You decide to get a job you like for a few years. Take some night classes, volunteer and continue building your application. Sometime in the next 1-3 years you get a green card and suddenly become eligible for IS tuition, IS application advantage, and your application is stronger due to better GPA and ECs.

 

[el_duderino]

Say you go to Caribbean and graduate. Then what? You won't get a green card if you leave the US for four years. Then what do you think your chances of landing a US residency will be?

 

[darklabel]

Yeah I agree with above, entering the match as a non-US IMG from the Carrib will make things very very difficult for you and I'm not sure how you would get funding for it.

Also your GPA isn't competitive for medical school even if you were a US citizen so use this time to up your GPA, get more clinical hours and research and look into maybe going into an SMP (preferably one with a research component since you can afford to study 2 years + a glide year).

So maybe its best to use this as a opportunity? But definitely don't do Carrib in your situation. Even if you can excell there, your status as a non-US resident will severely hamper you.

 

[Flash113]

Hey guys,

Sorry for the late response to all of your posts. I appreciate you guys reading my post and understanding my situation. With that being said, a lot of people have proposed that I take a few years off for residency-based reasons. I have had the chance to talk to my immigration lawyer, and I will not have any problems entering and leaving the US on my current visa status and will not have any problems entering and leaving the US when I get a greencard (which could be God knows when). The 6 month rule brought up is absolutely correct - but Ross provides a 2 week break every 15 weeks; so if need be, I can return to the states.

Money is not an issue for me and residency is not an issue at this point with respect to attending the Caribbean. If I were to apply to the US schools (MD and DO), yes there are schools that accept international students but there's no way I'd get in as an international student with my stats considering the fact they only accept a handful of students every year. I would have to wait for a greencard.

I guess at this point the only concern I have is whether I should wait a few years and strengthen my grades (my ECs are great so far) and possibly retake the MCAT and then give it another shot. But considering the fact that I have already completed 4 years at a university and my cumulative turned out to be 3.20 - how much really would my GPA increase anyways? I already have 250+ units. It becomes harder and harder to increase your undergrad GPA as you accrue units. Even if I get a good grad GPA, won't my undergrad GPA still stick out? The only reason I am considering attending the carribbean is because it would be very foolish for me to attempt to increase my GPA and retake the MCAT and still not get into med school and end up at the caribbean 2-3 years later. That thought scares me.

Although I am convinced, especially because the Caribbean is the only acceptance letter in my hand right now (still haven't heard back from post bacs), that I should go to the carribbean, a part of me still wants to stay in the US and wait. Sigh - so confused. Have to decide by this Friday. Thanks anyways!

 

[LMBLBM]

If I were you, I would do postbacc while waiting for your green card. I would avoid Caribbean school. I heard that securing an US residency is like hunger game

 

[dr876]

I can relate. I just received my green card, plan on attending Ross and I'm also concerned about the abandonment of PR status because I would be applying to remove conditions from GC upon completion of my 16 mths. I have not yet spoken to an immigration lawyer but I plan to visit home at the end of every semester for two full weeks, and maintain proof of ties to the US: my husband and I will be purchasing a house or I will have a lease for Miramar FL, car purchase with my name and hopefully these things will help. Also I will be traveling with a letter from Ross stating the mandatory 16mth on the island and subsequent semesters in the US. I would love to be in touch with someone who has been through this kinda thing before.
My $0.02

 

[FFH]

I just like to say that I've been where you are now and faced the similar choices.
1. For many years I had no green card, I wanted to go to medical school but I can't. I got my green card 3 years ago though.
2. You have a low GPA issue, while 3 years ago I had no US science education. We both faced the tough choices of either wait to get more education or pick the easy way out at the Caribbeans.
What happened to me? I waited. I got my green card, then I got a US college degree. It was a top 5 school and my grades was near perfect, which put me in a very good position now. I have several interviews already from dream schools.
How do I feel about my experience of waiting for so many years before applying to domestic medical school? Great. Really. If I get in, I'll never have to worry about being at a disadvantaged situation again as a IMG. While I wait for applying, I developed so many tools to deal with stress in life and enlarged my world view and deepened my humility. I also will be looking at 4 years of life spent with some of the best minds in our generation if I successfully make it into a top MD program in the end. That will have long lasting effect on my life in general in all aspects of my life.

Now my 1/50th of a dollar
1. You are right that you won't have a problem with studying in Ross before you got your green card. You are safe even afterwards. I think there are exceptions to the 6 months rule, one being receiving education in a foreign country.
2. You can't claim to be a PR when you are not at the time of submitting your application. The school won't care if you are already an AOS (they would if you are a refugee though). Many schools will ask for copies of your green card even before giving you interview, others will ask you to bring it for interview.
3. There are schools who take international applicants, but the spots are so few, you might as well not count on it, even with stellar GPA and stellar everything else. Last year, on MDApp there was someone who applied to tons of school with an absolutely stunning application, failed terribly.
I also been keeping track of all the international applicants that I have come to know of throughout the 8 years that I am working on my application, success: Only one. That guy was the valedictorian of an Ivy league college. He had the entire school's strongest support.
4. You are also right that it definitely seem to be an easier option for now--you have a low GPA, thus low prospect of admission into US MD school. However, what about the long run? As you said, waiting for a few years in the beginning would be a good investment for having a better prospect in your future medical career. You will have some real shots at competitive specialties and you will likely have a smoother career progress.
5. I'd suggest DO program and I'd advice against carribean schools. Source: SDN. Talking to directors of school/residency program/hospital in person. However, there are so many people here who are way more qualified to comment on this.

 

[Flash113]

Thank you all for your replies once again, especially the last post which was very detailed and helpful. Although I really appreciate everyone's advice, I have decided to go to Ross University and start a clean slate. My primary reason for choosing this path is because of the uncertainty of applying to medical school two to three years from now. My low GPA will remain low (there's only so much a post-bac can do). My MCAT score won't change and the test is changing now. Plus ending up at the Caribbean 2-3 years from now would seem foolish cause I have an acceptance offer now. I will try my level best on the island and do my best. I also don't want to wait too long to be a doctor and spend my entire 20s and 30s studying. Thanks anyways guys! Appreciate it!

 

[gyngyn]

Thank you all for your replies once again, especially the last post which was very detailed and helpful. Although I really appreciate everyone's advice, I have decided to go to Ross University and start a clean slate. My primary reason for choosing this path is because of the uncertainty of applying to medical school two to three years from now. My low GPA will remain low (there's only so much a post-bac can do). My MCAT score won't change and the test is changing now. Plus ending up at the Caribbean 2-3 years from now would seem foolish cause I have an acceptance offer now. I will try my level best on the island and do my best. I also don't want to wait too long to be a doctor and spend my entire 20s and 30s studying. Thanks anyways guys! Appreciate it!

Tell us how it goes.

 

[EliottReid]

I'm in the same boat. I'm ready, just waiting for the green card. They told me it would take less than 12months but if it takes more, I would wait until I actually have it in hand (even if takes longer).

With a 3.2, there is no way you're gonna get in as an international and applying as a PR when you actually don't have the green card isn't smart. You can't assume that they will give it to you unless they approved it.

 

[secondroundpremed]

Hey guys,

This is my first time posting here and I really need some input with regards to my situation. I can go on and on about my situation but I will try to be concise and get straight to the point.

I just graduated from a top university in the US with my Bachelors degree. I am a pre-medical student looking to go to an allopathic medical school. I do NOT have a green card, but do have an Adjustment of Status Visa which indicates that I have applied for a green card and my application is pending for processing. So no, I do not have the physical green card in my hand. My green card may come in the next year or may three years - no way of predicting. My stats are not too high either because of certain health problems that I had in undergrad (3.20 cGPA).

Now that I have graduated, I know for a fact if I applied via AMCAS now there is no way I will get in. Not only are my stats not high enough but I also do not have a green card at the moment. From what I have learned, the applicant to medical school must provide a green card copy at some point prior to matriculation (correct me if I'm wrong). This may be pre secondary or upon matriculation. Even if I applied now and said I am a permanent resident, it'll come back to haunt me. I have applied for post-bac programs (some with linkages). As of right now, I plan to apply to to medical school next year following my year long post bac (that gives me almost 2 years for my green card to come in because I would matriculate in 2016). This also gives me time to boost my GPA.

Also, just for the hell of it because there was no application fee, I applied to the caribbeans and was accepted to St. George. Now I have two options - go to a post bac program in the US and apply next year to US medical schools and pray to God that my green card comes in on time (it may or it may not, no one knows for sure but we are close to processing). Or I can go to the caribbean now in less than a month and save a lot of time and not worry about my green card and grades and retaking the MCAT.

There are pros and cons to both situations. Caribbean schools have a stigma associated with it. It is obviously no one's top choice. It isn't my best effort put forth. I don't want to live with the regret of not trying to get into a US medical school. But in the long run waiting a few years doesn't matter too much and going to medical school in the US sounds enticing and is a bigger accomplishment. But going to the caribbean also seems practical and has less hassles. There's always the concern whether my green card will even come in on time even if I did stall and do the post bac. Should I wait? Bolster my resume? Or should I just drop everything and not worry about post bac and retaking MCAT and just go to ross? Any thoughts? Also, another question to consider is whether my GPA, in spite of doing a post bac,will go up to a point where I am competitive enough for US med schools.

 

[secondroundpremed]

Yes, you will be required to send a copy of your green card. Hang in there. Continue your Ecs work on your application have it ready for when the times comes to apply. I'm going through that process now and i have to remind myself others in position won't ever be able top apply because they don't have a gcard.

 

[FluffyPolishUnicorn]

Hey guys,

Sorry for the late response to all of your posts. I appreciate you guys reading my post and understanding my situation. With that being said, a lot of people have proposed that I take a few years off for residency-based reasons. I have had the chance to talk to my immigration lawyer, and I will not have any problems entering and leaving the US on my current visa status and will not have any problems entering and leaving the US when I get a greencard (which could be God knows when). The 6 month rule brought up is absolutely correct - but Ross provides a 2 week break every 15 weeks; so if need be, I can return to the states.

Money is not an issue for me and residency is not an issue at this point with respect to attending the Caribbean. If I were to apply to the US schools (MD and DO), yes there are schools that accept international students but there's no way I'd get in as an international student with my stats considering the fact they only accept a handful of students every year. I would have to wait for a greencard.

I guess at this point the only concern I have is whether I should wait a few years and strengthen my grades (my ECs are great so far) and possibly retake the MCAT and then give it another shot. But considering the fact that I have already completed 4 years at a university and my cumulative turned out to be 3.20 - how much really would my GPA increase anyways? I already have 250+ units. It becomes harder and harder to increase your undergrad GPA as you accrue units. Even if I get a good grad GPA, won't my undergrad GPA still stick out? The only reason I am considering attending the carribbean is because it would be very foolish for me to attempt to increase my GPA and retake the MCAT and still not get into med school and end up at the caribbean 2-3 years later. That thought scares me.

Although I am convinced, especially because the Caribbean is the only acceptance letter in my hand right now (still haven't heard back from post bacs), that I should go to the carribbean, a part of me still wants to stay in the US and wait. Sigh - so confused. Have to decide by this Friday. Thanks anyways!

the 6 months things means that in any given year you can be out of USA for at the most 6 months. means 6 months in 6 months out.

if you come for 2 weeks every 15 weeks, you will get your GC revoked.

also some schools will take you in and then during the 4 years of med school you need to get GC or otherwise you simply wont be allowed to practice medicine - no one will hire you without proper paperwork!!