Permanent Resident - 3.5 GPA 32 MCAT

[JGGoobers]

I am currently in my second year of applying to medical school, I have not gotten interview invites yet and I'm looking at applying for a third time next year. During the gap year between my first attempt and my second, I have worked as a medical assistant at a private pain clinic, shadowed intensively within the Seton hospital network, and worked with my local church in volunteering and leadership roles. Currently, I am working two part-time teaching positions, volunteering and shadowing with Seton, performing research with a physician in a hospital on child epilepsy, and working with my local church. Here are my statistics:

Age: 24
Ethnicity: Asian American - Permanent Resident (Resident in Texas)
GPA: 3.57 cGPA/3.5 sGPA
MCAT 32 (10B, 10V, 12P)
Volunteer Hours: 100 (Still growing)
Shadowing Hours: 90 (Experience in the OR and in clinicals, still growing)
Research Experience: 1.5 years without publications (not counting the research I am currently doing, hoping to get a publication out of this opportunity)
500 hours as a medical assistant
Over 2000 hours working with my local church as a leader
60 hours coaching high school basketball at KIPP

My MCAT score expires after this next year, so if I do not reapply this next year, I will have to take the new MCAT format for future applications. I am applying for U.S. citizenship and will be a citizen next year as I apply. I have 5 strong recommendation letters, 2 from physicians, 2 from science faculty, and 1 from my private voice lessons instructor. Any advice on improving my candidacy would be extremely helpful!

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[Doug Underhill]

Permanent residents are treated identically to US citizens for admissions purposes, I believe. You have great stats for DO and can go MD as well as you have arguably the best state in the US for in-state status.

 

[DaMedDude]

i don't understand how you haven't been accepted......What schools have you been applying to? how many interviews have you had?

 

[Doug Underhill]

Are you applying to any DOs at all? I find it hard to believe that a borderline 3.6/32 has attracted zero DO interest. There must be something odd about your application.

Do you have an institutional action or a criminal record? Who's writing your LORs? Could they be giving you a bad one?

 

[JGGoobers]

I haven't applied to any D.O. schools yet, and so far I haven't gotten a single interview invite. I'm thinking about really casting a HUGE net on my third attempt next year. But the list of schools I've applied to include:

Texas Tech Paul L. Foster
Texas Tech HSC
UTMB
UTHealth in Houston
UTSW
A&M COM
Baylor COM
UTHSCSA (San Antonio)
Eastern Virginia Medical School
Loyola University (Chicago)
Tulane University
LSU COM
Keck SOM
FSU
Albany

I have not given much thought to D.O. programs, but I am doing some intensive research for it next year. I don't have anything on my criminal record, and I know that my letters of recommendation are solid. I got one from a physician I worked with at the clinic who I am really close with, one from another physician who I shadowed back home and mentored with for a summer, I got one from a science faculty who I tutored for and saw weekly, another one who I went to office hours for on a regular basis to build a relationship, and one more from my voice lessons professor who I studied with for over 3 years.

I'm just as confused, cause I don't know what else I can be addressing in my application, so honestly right now I'm addressing all of them. I'm still volunteering weekly, still shadowing weekly, doing research, and trying to stay afloat by working 2 part-times. I'm also applying for U.S. citizenship, so I'm thinking that may be a plus towards my application (as little as it may be).

Any helpful advice or consideration is greatly appreciated!

 

[Doug Underhill]

Well, you're applying MD with a GPA and MCAT below the national median for both numbers. Applicants like yourself are heavily encouraged to apply DO as well, where your numbers are more competitive.

Your MD list deviates a bit from the usual SDN-preferred list of lower-tier MDs like Rosalind Franklin, Jefferson, Temple, and others.

 

[Faha]

If you are not accepted to MD this year reapply to all the Texas MD schools next year as well as at least 10 DO schools. You should receive several DO interviews with your stats.

 

[JGGoobers]

I intend to do just that next year, I'm looking to cast a wide net of at least 10 D.O. programs along with around 20 or so M.D. programs. Could someone give me a list of lower tiered allopathic schools I should consider applying to?

Also, I'm wondering if it would be advisable to take a shot at the new MCAT coming out. I realize that I'll have very little to study with and very little precedent to go upon, but would it be reasonable to say that the first few iterations of the exam could possibly be easier to score higher on because of a more lenient curve/easier questions?

 

[hardwoodlampshade]

random question, but if you're a permanent resident, do you still consider yourself an asian american? because aren't permanent residents technically not american? in which case you'd just be asian? just wondering. don't hate

 

[Doug Underhill]

He's applying for citizenship, so he probably identifies as American.

 

[Heplayer92]

It is a bit strange that you havent received any IIs yet. Hopefully they roll around before the new year starts.

Some things to think about...is your personal statement good? How about your works/activities on AMCAS? Did you apply early? What did you change on your application from the first cycle?

Good luck!

 

[JGGoobers]

I've had a number of people look over my personal statement, which I think is stronger this year than it was last year during my first attempt. I've done a lot since the first cycle to address what I thought was my main weakness: clinical exposure and medical activities. Right now, I'm participating in activities that address all possible aspects of my application: shadowing, volunteering, clinical experience, research.

Could anyone point me to a list of lower-tiered allopathic schools and some good D.O. programs (low through high tier) to consider applying to next cycle should it become necessary? Thanks for the help guys!

 

[DaMedDude]

Your OOS school list is not very good. You need to have some safe schools such Rosalind franklin, VCOMM, TCMC, Western Michigan, Drexel...etc...also look into some more midteir schools like temple, Jefferson, tufts, Vermont, Creighton, schools like that. Also apply to DO schools next cycle. You need to just get in somewhere and go man.

 

[AromaticOreo]

I'm surprised you haven't had any luck with the TX schools. I hear they have a pretty strong IS bias, and your stats seem on par. You should have gotten some interviews with them this cycle unless there's some sort of red flag in your application. How did you feel your PS, Secondaries, and LORs were for this cycle? Also, when did you apply? Timing could play a role as well.

 

[JGGoobers]

I sent in my primary applications the first week of June, secondaries in mid-June through early July. As I stated above, my personal statement and LORs are strong. I think the only red flag I can think of is just the grades I got in organic chemistry 1 and 2, pretty crucial classes. I ended up getting C's in both classes cause I decided sophomore year would be a good time to be complacent/indifferent about school. Since sophomore year, my GPA has only trended upwards, ending with a few Bs and 2 semesters of 4.0s. My struggle with school and with finding my calling to medicine is something I have briefly touched upon in an update letter I wrote to the schools I applied to just a month ago.

 

[csx]

this is strange...

 

[applydon]

GPA 3.57 is far too low for an Asian male student. Please be noticed that medical schools are very picky on Asian students.

 

[applydon]

i don't understand how you haven't been accepted......What schools have you been applying to? how many interviews have you had?

Well, I used to talk to an Asian senior doctor who worked in an medical school. He told me I should not apply to MD schools if my GPA is lower than 3.50, because I am an Asian male student. Medical schools want to make their campus more culturally diversified, hence the rule. 3.57 is higher than 3.5, however, the medical schools are becoming more and more competitive.

The physics section of MCAT is far easier than high school level physics of China, 12 is a good score, but not a very good score for an Asian student, and the biology section score 10 is too low. However, your verbal reasoning is perfect.

If I were you, I would have to retake MCAT and try my best to score 13PS+12BS+10VR=35TOTAL. I will also apply to DO schools.

 

[Germanicus89]

Perhaps I missed this information, but is your 3.57 gpa as it appears on your TMDSAS application or as it appears on your AMCAS? TMDSAS calculates gpa differently (no + or -) correct?

What are your cGPA and sGPA as they appear on both applications?

 

[DaMedDude]

The physics section of MCAT is far easier than high school level physics of China, 12 is a good score, but not a very good score for an Asian student, and the biology section score 10 is too low. However, your verbal reasoning is perfect.

If I were you, I would have to retake MCAT and try my best to score 13PS+12BS+10VR=35TOTAL. I will also apply to DO schools.

Obviously it is too late to retake the MCAT now for this current cycle and since it expires next year you will have to the new one. But for others on sdn, possibly asian students in a similar situaiton, I would NOT suggest retaking a balanced 32.

 

[JGGoobers]

My GPA stands at a 3.57 cGPA and a 3.5 sGPA for both applications. I understand that a 3.57 is barely on the cusp of being competitive for medical school, especially as an Asian American. I'm considering retaking the MCAT, but I haven't made a final decision on that yet, any advice would be helpful. Also, I'm not sure what high school physics in China has to do with anything on the MCAT, I am NOT an international student. I'm definitely applying to D.O. schools next cycle and will cast a large net, for now all I can do is continue to shadow, volunteer, work, and research. If anyone could direct me to a list of schools, both D.O. and M.D., that I should consider applying to, it would be much appreciated! Thanks for all the help so far!

 

[WillburCobb]

I'm also applying for U.S. citizenship

The fact that you're not a U.S. citizen is most likely your biggest issue.

 

[ProudMD]

The fact that you're not a U.S. citizen is most likely your biggest issue.

It isn't. Permanent residents (people with green cards) are treated EXACTLY the same as American citizens.

I think the OP has a competitive application, especially considering his Texas residence. However, because there are so many competitive Asian male applicants, it is important for the OP to stand out from the crowd. OP's application covers all the bases, but it does look very similar to the thousands of applications from other Asian male applicants.

 

[ProudMD]

Well, I used to talk to an Asian senior doctor who worked in an medical school. He told me I should not apply to MD schools if my GPA is lower than 3.50, because I am an Asian male student. Medical schools want to make their campus more culturally diversified, hence the rule. 3.57 is higher than 3.5, however, the medical schools are becoming more and more competitive.

The physics section of MCAT is far easier than high school level physics of China, 12 is a good score, but not a very good score for an Asian student, and the biology section score 10 is too low. However, your verbal reasoning is perfect.

If I were you, I would have to retake MCAT and try my best to score 13PS+12BS+10VR=35TOTAL. I will also apply to DO schools.

I don't think that's true. A 12 in any section is a great score for anyone, and a 10 in BS is perfectly acceptable. The median MCAT score for Asian American matriculants is around a 32, the OP's test score.

 

[WillburCobb]

It isn't. Permanent residents (people with green cards) are treated EXACTLY the same as American citizens.

It's up to the individual schools how they view permanent residents compared to citizens.

 

[wuhsabee]

It's up to the individual schools how they view permanent residents compared to citizens.

Where are you reading that?

I agree with ProudMD - permanent residents are treated on the same level as US citizens. Permanent residents qualify for federal aid and they aren't going to get deported anytime soon, which might be part of the reason why some medical schools are wary of admitting foreign students (will they be able to pay for their education; are they going to be able to stay in US for the entirety of their med education + career, etc).

It is kinda weird that you aren't receiving interviews, especially since you're a TX resident. Your MCAT score is solid and aligns with the average Texan matriculants' MCAT score. I'm thinking perhaps it's your GPA? 3.5 sGPA is a bit low. Did you get anyone to proofread your PS? Did you fill out ALL secondary questions? (Even the optional ones?)

Idk - maybe The Wise @Goro or @gyngyn can chime in?

 

[gyngyn]

Where are you reading that?

I agree with ProudMD - permanent residents are treated on the same level as US citizens. Permanent residents qualify for federal aid and they aren't going to get deported anytime soon, which might be part of the reason why some medical schools are wary of admitting foreign students (will they be able to pay for their education; are they going to be able to stay in US for the entirety of their med education + career, etc).

It is kinda weird that you aren't receiving interviews, especially since you're a TX resident. Your MCAT score is solid and aligns with the average Texan matriculants' MCAT score. I'm thinking perhaps it's your GPA? 3.5 sGPA is a bit low. Did you get anyone to proofread your PS? Did you fill out ALL secondary questions? (Even the optional ones?)

Idk - maybe The Wise @Goro or @gyngyn can chime in?

Schools (and states) can decide which applicants are viewed on the same level as US citizens. Although most schools choose to view Permanent Residents as equivalent to citizens, this is not universal.

 

[wuhsabee]

Schools (and states) can decide which applicants are viewed on the same level as US citizens. Although most schools choose to view Permanent Residents as equivalent to citizens, this is not universal.

That is very disconcerting, and I had (naively) thought that PR were judged at the same level as US citizens. Why is this so? PR's pay taxes and are eligible for federal aid and loans.


Edit: Actually found a thread where another TX resident did not get interviews from two schools, and one of the reasons might have been because he was a PR: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...ools-due-to-permanent-resident-status.798010/

 

[Glazedonutlove]

Schools (and states) can decide which applicants are viewed on the same level as US citizens. Although most schools choose to view Permanent Residents as equivalent to citizens, this is not universal.

Do you know which schools don't view permanent residents equal to citizens? In my opinion that's extremely unfair.

 

[gyngyn]

Do you know which schools don't view permanent residents equal to citizens? In my opinion that's extremely unfair.

In my state all schools view green card holders equal to citizens. I do not have a list of the schools (or states) that view this differently.