Persistence of Minecraft WW Game Thread

[DVMDream]

Oh and sorry, Finn, I really thought you were wolfy...

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Trilt]

The Deadies did it! We put people in the nether to protect them from lynch

Additionally, if the deads successfully guessed someone who was going to die that day, the person would permanently stay in the Nether... that's why Dy had a short tenure there and could mess with poor Hayley's mind.

 

[finnickthedog]

Oh and sorry, Finn, I really thought you were wolfy...

Honestly, I was probably better off lynched anyways.
I would not have figured out promo was the convert and the convert thing had me thrown for a loop on deva so I was really more a hindrance than a help. People kept listening to my cluelessness for some reason.

 

[Abnerrs]

The Deadies did it! We put people in the nether to protect them from lynch

Ya butts never protected me. We're fighting.

 

[Trilt]

I wonder if the walls changed at all throughout the game..... @Trilt anyone add anything to the Nether walls?

Final form:

Welcome to The Nether.

It's functionally Minecraft's hell, and look - you have a friend(?) to talk to! Watch the lava.

Amusingly, someone seems to have engraved a message in the wall... which was then slashed out. "DVMD is the Queen of The Nether!" was replaced with "PBC is the Empress Divine!" Someone else had scribbled "L'ennui est contre-révolutionnaire! - Kilroy"

How silly. But then again, anything to pass the time.​

 

[Abnerrs]

Thanks, mods! It was a lot of fun. Even though you only gave me an EON ability and I was village all game. I wish I could have given it more attention. I didn't even start a spreadsheet . Without DVMD here at the end I don't think the villagers would have made it.

I've never made a spreadsheet in my life

 

[Trilt]

Also, with the Mooshroom dying N1... DVMD was the only affiliation seered person in the game. I don't know why food makes me think seering, but the chupa chups lollipop was a simple affiliation item.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

I've never made a spreadsheet in my life

They make me feel like I'm smarter than I actually am

 

[DVMDream]

Honestly, I was probably better off lynched anyways.
I would not have figured out promo was the convert and the convert thing had me thrown for a loop on deva so I was really more a hindrance than a help. People kept listening to my cluelessness for some reason.

I really did just notice a subtle change in his posting style. And maybe it was in part because he was at a conference, but there was a content change that really kind of stuck out in my mind. It really had nothing to do with length or wordiness.... I would explain it more, but I may be able to use it as a way to gauge his wolfiness in future games, so I shall keep it to myself.

 

[DVMDream]

Also, with the Mooshroom dying N1... DVMD was the only affiliation seered person in the game. I don't know why food makes me think seering, but the chupa chups lollipop was a simple affiliation item.

And I was still considered to be suspicious...

 

[Promethean]

Thank you all for an awesome game. It was excellently made and modded. My own participation got spotty at the end, but I didn't expect to live so long.

Thank you, wolves, for giving me a chance to be wolfy, too. I gave it my n00by best, but I am still glad village got a win. Well played, all.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

 

[PrincessButterCup]

Thank you all for an awesome game. It was excellently made and modded. My own participation got spotty at the end, but I didn't expect to live so long.

Thank you, wolves, for giving me a chance to be wolfy, too. I gave it my n00by best, but I am still glad village got a win. Well played, all.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

You dirty little convert you

 

[Devastating]

Loved this game, my very first one as a wolf in nearly a year on this forum ()! Will make a better, more detailed post and responses tomorrow probably. Lol

 

[WildZoo]

I had so much fun Trilt, especially after death, which seems to be a theme with me in your games My only regret is that Promo somehow found me N1 so I didn't get to be neutral longer. Someday...someday.

Oh, and thanks to my fellow deadites for providing endless entertainment these last few days

Woo villagers!!!!

 

[dyachei]

Thanks for the game.

Constructive criticism : it wasn't balanced. 4/25 players possible as wolves in not balanced. The dead player coming back didn't add to balance either, particularly with so many villagers with lynch avoidance techniques.

 

[Trilt]

Thanks for the game.

Constructive criticism : it wasn't balanced. 4/25 players possible as wolves in not balanced. The dead player coming back didn't add to balance either, particularly with so many villagers with lynch avoidance techniques.

I disagree that you can just look at numbers and say "not balanced." I truly believe this game would have been a runaway wolf win if there had been either one more original wolf or conversion. Cannot underestimate the strength of a wolf with a strong cover role(/ability in this case), and you had two who could pose as strong villagers. Being able to rez a number in endgame is also absolutely something that needs to be worked into design... an eight player game (6 village, 2 wolves), could have been won in a single cycle with Deva/Guilt's ability. Night kill (5 village), rez (3 wolves), lynch villager (4 village), night kill (3 village) = parity and wolf win.

You had the opportunity to take out lots of the village power roles with Genny/Hunger (assassin, affiliation seer, tracker), and specifically could kill those whose roles seemed to clear them most. There was only one player with a true lynch avoidance (LotF/Pig) and then DVMD/Zombie's delayed death. Tons of players whose roles seemed more wolfy than the true wolves. Chaos who could have taken people out. Etc etc.

There was a significant amount of thought put into this set-up and I think just going "4/25? too low. unbalanced." doesn't take into account design.

 

[nyanko]

Without Nyanko's item, I likely would have voted you today, so really, it was nyanko that helped us all out.

Were I around I would have strongly argued to lynch Deva anyway so I'm glad it worked out, haha!

 

[nyanko]

Tell me why I shouldn't lynch Deva or Promo again?

BTW look at this (from Friday)....a broken clock, twice a day, etc.

 

[Trilt]

Also, just a couple call outs (I've gotten lazy with superlatives recently):

@StartingoverVet, for emphasizing why I like that weirdo communication role. He nearly caught a wolf with the chaos spiel, and then after being boosted he had a fantastic plan that we negotiated for the next day (which Dy, unfortunately, blocked).
@genny, for being a fantastically cheeky and hilarious wolf in dead chat, with just a small side of manipulation.
@LetItSnow... because that lynch after his rez was probably the most perfect thing you could do with the very short time as a wolf.
@Abney; see above. You were a much better sport than I would have been.
@allyphoe, for playing a fantastic first game. All that lurking paid off!
@DVMDream, for leading the way in today's vital lynch...
​

And of course, @Filly Bay, for being an amazing co-mod. Especially with my unexpectedly limited wifi last weekend - I couldn't have done this successfully without her. Praise her like we should.

 

[Abnerrs]

I want to be clear that I was pretty cranky about it! Mostly at @LetItSnow for basically pulling the same maneuver on me that I had just pulled on him and GETTING AWAY WITH IT. I just make it my life mission not to be a dick

 

[TheGirlWithTheFernTattoo]

I want to be clear that I was pretty cranky about it! Mostly at @LetItSnow for basically pulling the same maneuver on me that I had just pulled on him and GETTING AWAY WITH IT. I just make it my life mission not to be a dick

I'll take the handy dandy moment to remind you that you were the one who went full steam ahead on my lynch

 

[Abnerrs]

I'll take the handy dandy moment to remind you that you were the one who went full steam ahead on my lynch

Then don't play like a wolf

 

[Abnerrs]

 

[PrincessButterCup]

handy dandy

BLUE'S CLUES

 

[Abnerrs]

BLUE'S CLUES

I was thinking the same thing. In another life I was a nanny. When they changed from Steve was a dark time.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

I was thinking the same thing. In another life I was a nanny. When they changed from Steve was a dark time.

Apparently he was going bald and that was no good.

 

[LetItSnow]

I want to be clear that I was pretty cranky about it! Mostly at @LetItSnow for basically pulling the same maneuver on me that I had just pulled on him and GETTING AWAY WITH IT. I just make it my life mission not to be a dick

Turnabout = fair play.

I admit, when the votes started rolling in, I laughed and laughed.

To the people that used the "Dy must not be a wolf, she would never kill LIS so early"....... Remember this game. She is a cold one.

 

[Abnerrs]

I thought it was a super fun game though. Definitely a couple of "what is this ****ery that won't quit?!" moments.

And when I agreed to play and was like "oh for goodness sake I'm being lynched!"

 

[Crayola227]

The Deadies did it! We put people in the nether to protect them from lynch

thanks you guys protected me from lynch and it really helped at the end when we knew we were looking for an original wolf, which we knew wasn't me

you set us op to win from the start!

 

[dyachei]

I disagree that you can just look at numbers and say "not balanced." I truly believe this game would have been a runaway wolf win if there had been either one more original wolf or conversion. Cannot underestimate the strength of a wolf with a strong cover role(/ability in this case), and you had two who could pose as strong villagers. Being able to rez a number in endgame is also absolutely something that needs to be worked into design... an eight player game (6 village, 2 wolves), could have been won in a single cycle with Deva/Guilt's ability. Night kill (5 village), rez (3 wolves), lynch villager (4 village), night kill (3 village) = parity and wolf win.

You had the opportunity to take out lots of the village power roles with Genny/Hunger (assassin, affiliation seer, tracker), and specifically could kill those whose roles seemed to clear them most. There was only one player with a true lynch avoidance (LotF/Pig) and then DVMD/Zombie's delayed death. Tons of players whose roles seemed more wolfy than the true wolves. Chaos who could have taken people out. Etc etc.

There was a significant amount of thought put into this set-up and I think just going "4/25? too low. unbalanced." doesn't take into account design.

Then you didn't read the full post because I took into account abilities.

It was still unbalanced.

They really weren't cover abilities and chaos is a 3rd party. It would not have been a runaway with another wolf.

Honestly village should have won it earlier than they did.

This doesn't mean that the game wasn't enjoyable or anything like that. It just needed a few tweaks.
I also include double voting as a strong village ability and can act as lynch avoidance

 

[Crayola227]

@Trilt thanks for letting me play!

I loved getting to know all y'all! I hope you guys will tag me and let me play with you guys again!

Trilt, I'm sorry I didn't contribute as much at the start, I hope I was more helpful to y'all as the game went on

FUN! Thanks!

 

[Promethean]

I do think that if I'd been around more on Friday and Saturday, and if I"d ruthlessly lynched Deva early on Saturday (as I'd kinda considered doing,) it could have wreaked some havoc at end game.

Having village know that they were seeking an original pretty much gave them the game. Convert hunting is much more disruptive.

 

[Trilt]

Then you didn't read the full post because I took into account abilities.

It was still unbalanced.

They really weren't cover abilities and chaos is a 3rd party. It would not have been a runaway with another wolf.

Honestly village should have won it earlier than they did.

This doesn't mean that the game wasn't enjoyable or anything like that. It just needed a few tweaks.
I also include double voting as a strong village ability and can act as lynch avoidance

I responded to your points about Deva's role and villagers with lynch avoidances specifically... how can you possibly say I didn't read your post?

I just disagree. Having the only rez role in the game seemed to be a pretty convincingly village "cover ability" to people, even when LIS flipped wolf. And Genny could have played her ability off easily as an EON protection one by purposefully targeting non-food roles; I doubt the village would have champed at the bit to lynch what seemed like a weird protector. You were the only one that had a more "wolfy" ability, yet you were the only wolf in the game who put up any fight (and a good fight) when being lynched. And we still got down to LyLo. ()

With Deva's role, another wolf would have been deadly; could have easily allowed a wolf win in a cycle at almost half the players remaining. Consider if even two original wolves got to 10 players - Deva rezzes (3 wolves), your conversion occurs (4 wolves, 7 village), night kill (6 village), villager lynch (5 village), night kill (4 village) and we're at parity with eight people left. That was an extremely powerful role in wolf hands, and I don't think you're giving it the weight it deserves.

And yes, chaos was third party, but unless Jilary purposefully went out of her way to zap one of the wolves twice, her role was designed to more heavily affect villagers... including preferentially taking out their seers.

The low number of wolves in this game was purposeful, and I thought at length about what adding more wolves would have done to the game design. I welcome constructive criticism, but I would like the chance to explain the thought behind things before you call it "unbalanced" - there's usually method to my madness, I swear.

 

[dyachei]

I responded to your points about Deva's role and villagers with lynch avoidances specifically... how can you possibly say I didn't read your post?

I just disagree. Having the only rez role in the game seemed to be a pretty convincingly village "cover ability" to people, even when LIS flipped wolf. And Genny could have played her ability off easily as an EON protection one by purposefully targeting non-food roles; I doubt the village would have champed at the bit to lynch what seemed like a weird protector. You were the only one that had a more "wolfy" ability, yet you were the only wolf in the game who put up any fight (and a good fight) when being lynched. And we still got down to LyLo. ()

With Deva's role, another wolf would have been deadly; could have easily allowed a wolf win in a cycle at almost half the players remaining. Consider if even two original wolves got to 10 players - Deva rezzes (3 wolves), your conversion occurs (4 wolves, 7 village), night kill (6 village), villager lynch (5 village), night kill (4 village) and we're at parity with eight people left. That was an extremely powerful role in wolf hands, and I don't think you're giving it the weight it deserves.

And yes, chaos was third party, but unless Jilary purposefully went out of her way to zap one of the wolves twice, her role was designed to more heavily affect villagers... including preferentially taking out their seers.

The low number of wolves in this game was purposeful, and I thought at length about what adding more wolves would have done to the game design. I welcome constructive criticism, but I would like the chance to explain the thought behind things before you call it "unbalanced" - there's usually method to my madness, I swear.

Agree to disagree then. I think it was unbalanced. I could have told you day 1 we were going to lose. There was almost no way for the wolves to win. I think they do need to be harder for wolves like LIS, but it shouldn't be impossible. the accepted ratio is between 25-30% other than village.

 

[PrincessButterCup]

I think you overestimate the village. DVMD wanted to lynch me and I was torn between her and Deva. Wolves could have won. If we didn't have that item and if Deva's ability wasn't known, we'd probably have lynched a villager yesterday.

 

[dyachei]

I think you overestimate the village. DVMD wanted to lynch me and I was torn between her and Deva. Wolves could have won. If we didn't have that item and if Deva's ability wasn't known, we'd probably have lynched a villager yesterday.

that's not because of game balance though.

That's village play.

 

[nyanko]

If Promo hadn't revealed Deva's role, the wolves could have very very easily won that game, and it's not because the villagers were crappy at WW - the game was somewhat complex (which IMO benefits wolves every time). So I'd say it came down to a wolf making a costly mistake and to write it off as unbalanced because of pure numbers is downplaying the amount of thought that went into the design.

 

[dyachei]

If Promo hadn't revealed Deva's role, the wolves could have very very easily won that game, and it's not because the villagers were crappy at WW - the game was somewhat complex (which IMO benefits wolves every time). So I'd say it came down to a wolf making a costly mistake and to write it off as unbalanced because of pure numbers is downplaying the amount of thought that went into the design.

no. It's really and truly unbalanced in my opinion. Not horribly unbalanced, but unbalanced nonetheless

 

[Trilt]

no. It's really and truly unbalanced in my opinion. Not horribly unbalanced, but unbalanced nonetheless

You have decided what you believe (hell, I'm pretty sure you decided it D1 of this game) and are not bothering to respond to my fairly thorough attempts at explanations. If Deva had her rez, this could have been a wolf win two days ago. If there were higher numbers of starting wolves, it would have been excessively OP - see scenario I spelled out above.

Three of the four wolves went out this game without so much as a peep of a fight, and it still got to four players. In endgame, the wolves gambled on keeping people who were functionally cleared as originals around long-term because they could sell them as converts, and the gamble failed when your convert died before the original. Bummer, but not a game design problem.

Sorry, but this was absolutely winnable by wolves, and while I'm not trying to be rude, I honestly think you're being a bit of a poor sport about it.

 

[dyachei]

You have decided what you believe (hell, I'm pretty sure you decided it D1 of this game) and are not bothering to respond to my fairly thorough attempts at explanations. If Deva had her rez, this could have been a wolf win two days ago. If there were higher numbers of starting wolves, it would have been excessively OP - see scenario I spelled out above.

Three of the four wolves went out this game without so much as a peep of a fight, and it still got to four players. In endgame, the wolves gambled on keeping people who were functionally cleared as originals around long-term because they could sell them as converts, and the gamble failed when your convert died before the original. Bummer, but not a game design problem.

Sorry, but this was absolutely winnable by wolves, and while I'm not trying to be rude, I honestly think you're being a bit of a poor sport about it.

I'm not being a poor sport. Nowhere did I say it was not enjoyable. Or that it was unwinnable - but the odds of a wolf win were pretty small. You're conflating me giving constructive criticism with me not liking the game.

It was poorly balanced. The village absolutely shouldn't have let it go as far as it did. I think you've also decided you don't care to hear what I'm saying since the beginning. I think this was absolutely villager-sided. That's all I'm saying. If you decide you actually want to talk about it, go ahead and PM me. If you'd rather decide that you don't want to hear it, that's fine, too.

 

[Trilt]

I'm not being a poor sport. Nowhere did I say it was not enjoyable. Or that it was unwinnable - but the odds of a wolf win were pretty small. You're conflating me giving constructive criticism with me not liking the game.

It was poorly balanced. The village absolutely shouldn't have let it go as far as it did. I think you've also decided you don't care to hear what I'm saying since the beginning. I think this was absolutely villager-sided. That's all I'm saying. If you decide you actually want to talk about it, go ahead and PM me. If you'd rather decide that you don't want to hear it, that's fine, too.

I have been trying to talk through the thought process and my design for my last half dozen posts, and you have simply repeated "it was unbalanced" in response. Even when other people chimed in, your response was "it was unbalanced." That isn't constructive criticism. It's just criticism.

I'm glad you enjoyed the game.

 

[dyachei]

I have been trying to talk through the thought process and my design for my last half dozen posts, and you have simply repeated "it was unbalanced" in response. Even when other people chimed in, your response was "it was unbalanced." That isn't constructive criticism, it's just criticism.

I'm glad you enjoyed the game.

I did give specific examples. You just said nope. That can't be it. So what use is talking on my end?

The way the powers were with the only beneficial items (including the incredibly overpowered ask the mods every night item) meant that it was unbalanced.

 

[dyachei]

I have been trying to talk through the thought process and my design for my last half dozen posts, and you have simply repeated "it was unbalanced" in response. Even when other people chimed in, your response was "it was unbalanced." That isn't constructive criticism. It's just criticism.

I'm glad you enjoyed the game.

Please, reread my first post again. You missed some key points.

 

[genny]

 

[Trilt]

I freaking love you.

 

[dyachei]

it won't load for me.

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

it won't load for me.

Monty Python fish slapping sketch.

 

[Devastating]

One thing that really brought us down at endgame was that damn nyanko protection--at that point we were cruising along pretty well, just a couple more lynch/night kill cycles and we could've ended it. By process of elimination that day, I figured hayley had to be the protector, but was reluctant to target her since she had just come out of the nether and had expressed possibility of getting wolfkilled overnight, thought she may protect herself (wolves face WIFOM, too!). We decided Nyanko was a safe choice--wasn't among the village suspects so it would eliminate a "cleared" person, and she had been quiet that day so we assumed she'd be unlikely to be thought about for protection...but then she was. well played, hayley! (nyanko was one of our considerations for conversion, too! She really should've died earlier, with all she knew )

Losing the convert Promo before me was another huge blow. Once that happened I figured my one very last chance was a PBC lynch (not DVMD because delayed death), so DVMD's use of that item on PBC was the final nail in my coffin

LOL, the night that I was about to get lynched but then got role-revealed and the vote moved to Dy last-minute instead, I was like OH CRAP I WAS JUST TRYING TO DEFEND, I DIDN'T WANT THIS. it was very lucky that Dy had borrowed DVMD's ability that day--I was all worried that I'd just gotten my last partner lynched and would have to muck through the rest of the game all alone (plus the conversion) as a first-timer.

Really, really enjoyed my first time as a wolf (in shock I was able to last so long--I'll attribute this to the great cover-potential of my role & ability). I want to thank Promo, Genny, Dy for being my wolfpack partners (plus honorary LIS, because that was absolutely beautiful). Wish Genny hadn't died so early cause we coulda wrought even more havoc with that double-kill potential (and continue to disguise it as mechanics for as long as we could!)
Also now a bit sad I killed chaos Jil because that would've been great to see play out, plus distract from us!

 

[Devastating]

Oh yeah, and re: DVMD's flaming giraffe "block" item, I actually did do the kill that night. It wasn't exactly a full blocker per se, the description in my PM just said that it would have distracted me from performing an ability, and I guess the innate killing power that wolves have doesn't count as an ability in itself (that would have been my rez, which was already spent), thus I had no ability to block that night, kill still went through.

 

[Trilt]

One thing that really brought us down at endgame was that damn nyanko protection--at that point we were cruising along pretty well, just a couple more lynch/night kill cycles and we could've ended it. By process of elimination that day, I figured hayley had to be the protector, but was reluctant to target her since she had just come out of the nether and had expressed possibility of getting wolfkilled overnight, thought she may protect herself (wolves face WIFOM, too!). We decided Nyanko was a safe choice--wasn't among the village suspects so it would eliminate a "cleared" person, and she had been quiet that day so we assumed she'd be unlikely to be thought about for protection...but then she was. well played, hayley! (nyanko was one of our considerations for conversion, too! She really should've died earlier, with all she knew )

Losing the convert Promo before me was another huge blow. Once that happened I figured my one very last chance was a PBC lynch (not DVMD because delayed death), so DVMD's use of that item on PBC was the final nail in my coffin

LOL, the night that I was about to get lynched but then got role-revealed and the vote moved to Dy last-minute instead, I was like OH CRAP I WAS JUST TRYING TO DEFEND, I DIDN'T WANT THIS. it was very lucky that Dy had borrowed DVMD's ability that day--I was all worried that I'd just gotten my last partner lynched and would have to muck through the rest of the game all alone (plus the conversion) as a first-timer.

Really, really enjoyed my first time as a wolf (in shock I was able to last so long--I'll attribute this to the great cover-potential of my role & ability). I want to thank Promo, Genny, Dy for being my wolfpack partners (plus honorary LIS, because that was absolutely beautiful). Wish Genny hadn't died so early cause we coulda wrought even more havoc with that double-kill potential (and continue to disguise it as mechanics for as long as we could!)
Also now a bit sad I killed chaos Jil because that would've been great to see play out, plus distract from us!

You (and @genny) did great as first time wolves. Happy to have you guys.