Peter Pan WW Sign-ups and Game Thread

Veterinary Science Graduate Certificate from UofI
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I was going to correct my phone's mistype of interesting to ingesting, but I'm not going to because it is funny.
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guisantes said:
I think I died because MQ voted for me and she was the crocodile...so I only needed that one vote to die
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Yes you died because I voted for you. I didn't vote for you the first two days because I thought there was no way they'd found Capt. Hook right off the bat so I voted for random others trying to find him. Then you outed yourself. Right after lynch closed I realized it was probably a bad idea because it was obvious that I'd killed you. Lessons for future games though. :)


Anyways thanks for the game PBC and co-mods!
 
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I am curious as to why I was lynched that first time, though. Was it because Tinkerbell voted for me? Or because it was unanimous?
 
I definitely appreciated that this game mirrored in part SOV and I's noob game in that revealing yourself as the first defense could lead to death as a consequence. Gotta learn to defend your play and not rely on role and ability as the reason not to lynch, and those doing the questioning have to learn to read those defenses instead of ignoring everything said until a reveal is forced.

Had fun posting silly gifs as always! :pirate:
 
I actually was in wolf chat the whole time and knew who every wolf was. My only ability was to kill once for the wolves, but I did my best not to favor them and tried to balance my trolling to both sides.
 
Lupin21 said:
I definitely appreciated that this game mirrored in part SOV and I's noob game in that revealing yourself as the first defense could lead to death as a consequence. Gotta learn to defend your play and not rely on role and ability as the reason not to lynch, and those doing the questioning have to learn to read those defenses instead of ignoring everything said until a reveal is forced.

Had fun posting silly gifs as always! :pirate:
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If your science starts behaving and you play, you will very much enjoy the games I have in the works. :D
 
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SandstormDVM said:
I am curious as to why I was lynched that first time, though. Was it because Tinkerbell voted for me? Or because it was unanimous?
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You could only be lynched if a majority of pirates voted for you.
 
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DVMDream said:
Faction games aren't much my thing. Never have liked them.

But good going wolves, I guess.... probably a couple too many for appropriate balance, but it is what it is.

Definitely some ingesting mechanics this game. I'm just glad people actually died.
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Honest curiosity for the sake of future planning . . . by a couple too many wolves, do you mean originals or converts? The wolves could convert every 3 days (and only after an unaffiliated pirate had died), but they got really lucky with boosts on conversion nights. It started with three originals. Would it have been more balanced with only 2 originals, or did you mean 1 original?

I was so paranoid about having everything balanced. It's definitely a learning experience.
 
PrincessButterCup said:
Honest curiosity for the sake of future planning . . . by a couple too many wolves, do you mean originals or converts? The wolves could convert every 3 days (and only after an unaffiliated pirate had died), but they got really lucky with boosts on conversion nights. It started with three originals. Would it have been more balanced with only 2 originals, or did you mean 1 original?

I was so paranoid about having everything balanced. It's definitely a learning experience.
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Shouldn't be able to boost conversion
Conversion every 3 nights is a lot. 25 people, that was what, like 4 convert? That's close to 1/3rd of the game becoming wolves. Plus the random extra kills and via the mermaid, plus some other random killers. I agree too much wolves
 
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As a vague general rule of thumb that I use is to make ending # of total wolves (originals + converts) no more than 20-25% of the players. So in a 25 person game, 5 wolves total. This will vary sometimes depending on mechanics, but that's a rough role for me.
 
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thedrjojo said:
With 25 people, imo, 3 wolves + 2 converts or 4 wolves + 1 convert would be max.
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And that's if you're in the camp of wanting a 50:50 chance of a villager/wolf win. If you fall into the camp of LIS - where the wolves should win less than 50% of the time - it's even less.

For 25 people with no role abilities and randomized play, to get a 50:50 win rate, the math says you want 2.5 wolves (so, 3). And that's no converts (no special abilities in the game at all). Obviously, we like our role abilities around here, and that has to be accounted for. Just think about that. 25 players and 3 wolves? Most of us would be like "uhhhhh no, not near enough wolves".

Also, for reasons that I've never figured out, the majority of players around here seem to LOVE converts, so you have to take that into account as well - it's more powerful than most people think, because a truly well-chosen convert can be a MAJOR wolf advantage. Newer mods tend to think of converts as "just one more wolf" and so they view 3 wolves + 1 convert the same as 4 wolves, but that isn't the right way to think about it. 1 wolf with 4 converts is far more powerful than 5 original wolves, all other things being equal.

That's partly why we have such a poor villager win rate. Even if you don't agree with me about the desirable wolf win rate - and a lot of people disagree with me on that one, which is fine with me - our games are still too wolf-favoring.

Part of that is newer mods just not being all that great at balancing, which is to be expected. Part of that is that people really enjoy their role abilities, and so even experienced mods are encouraged (maybe subconsciously, but still....) to create games with a ton of role abilities - which makes balancing extremely difficult. @SummerTheLynx <loves> his super complex role abilities, and even though he and I have some pretty major disagreement about how to structure a game, he is one of the few mods who can usually adequately balance that complexity. (And his stories are awesome, which is icing on the cake.)

Throw in more and more variant game mechanics to the complex role abilities, add in a chaos player or two, maybe make it a faction game, and personally, I think "balance" is an utter joke. It too quickly gets beyond the ability of a mod to actually balance to the point where repeated play would truly result in a 50:50 win rate (I'm just going with 50:50 since I'm in the minority in believing wolves should win much less than that.). We're kidding ourselves if we think anything different.

Doesn't mean a game can't be fun just because it isn't balanced well - those are different things, and I've LOVED some terribly unbalanced games - but I personally am finding it a bit tedious that wolves are so routinely beating up the villagers.
 
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DVMDream said:
As a vague general rule of thumb that I use is to make ending # of total wolves (originals + converts) no more than 20-25% of the players. So in a 25 person game, 5 wolves total. This will vary sometimes depending on mechanics, but that's a rough role for me.
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Yup. That seems pretty reasonable. But another difference is that as someone who has modded a bunch of games, you're not going to be glued to that percentage, and you're going to try and vary it based on game mechanics and role abilities and .... etc. A newer mod struggles really hard to account for all those variables.
 
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Trilt said:
This comment was definitely necessary and contributed positively to the thread.
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LetItSnow said:
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No, seriously. Why? In what way did that post help PBC? In what way did that make the thread any better? Because from my couch it just looks like someone who didn't even play the game stopping by and being a bit of a dick.

Your follow up post was super helpful. That wasn't, and it surprised me from you.
 
Trilt said:
No, seriously. Why? In what way did that post help PBC? In what way did that make the thread any better? Because from my couch it just looks like someone who didn't even play the game stopping by and being a bit of a dick.

Your follow up post was super helpful. That wasn't, and it surprised me from you.
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Sarcasm, Trilt. Snark, Trilt. It's just being snarky. Calm yourself down. If you were here in MN, I would throw you a special little Chill Pill that Dyachei gave me when she visited. It wasn't intended as a "OMG THIS MOD SUX!" post, and I doubt PBC took it that way. Especially since it wasn't even aimed at PBC. There's nothing PBC did or didn't do that every other mod hasn't been doing lately (kinda the point).

Not every post <has> to be helpful. Sometimes snark is just snark. I mean... was your follow-up post "super helpful"? No. So.... you going to attack yourself, too?

You going to go reply to WTF's most recent thread about pre-vet being all about medicine and point out that it's not helpful? Because it's not. (But it's snarky and funny.)

Relax.
 
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LetItSnow said:
Sarcasm, Trilt. Snark, Trilt. It's just being snarky. Calm yourself down. If you were here in MN, I would throw you a special little Chill Pill that Dyachei gave me when she visited. It wasn't intended as a "OMG THIS MOD SUX!" post, and I doubt PBC took it that way. Especially since it wasn't even aimed at PBC.

Not every post <has> to be helpful. Sometimes snark is just snark. I mean... was your follow-up post "super helpful"? No. So.... you going to attack yourself, too?

You going to go reply to WTF's most recent thread about pre-vet being all about medicine and point out that it's not helpful? Because it's not. (But it's snarky and funny.)

Relax.
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Meh. I just dealt with a bunch of people constantly crapping on a game, and I found it very not-fun from the mod perspective. People pointing out specific flaws and discussing them is one thing, but someone swooping in at the end of the game for no reason other than to make a snarky comment about it would be unenjoyable to me, so I responded to it. That's all. I'm not saying every post on the forum needs to be helpful.
 
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Trilt said:
Meh. I just dealt with a bunch of people constantly crapping on a game, and I found it very not-fun from the mod perspective. People pointing out specific flaws and discussing them is one thing, but someone swooping in at the end of the game for no reason other than to make a snarky comment about it would be unenjoyable to me, so I responded to it. That's all. I'm not saying every post on the forum needs to be helpful.
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That's fair. But unless you're going to post an unhelpful attack in response to every post by everyone who isn't meeting your criteria for helpfulness (i.e. unless you're going to be consistent in responding to everyone else and not just me), I think you should just relax and let it go and take it as it was intended - a snarky comment aimed at all of us (including me).

Besides. I didn't crap on your game. So there.
 
LetItSnow said:
That's fair. But unless you're going to post an unhelpful attack in response to every post by everyone who isn't meeting your criteria for helpfulness (i.e. unless you're going to be consistent in responding to everyone else and not just me), I think you should just relax and let it go and take it as it was intended - a snarky comment aimed at all of us (including me).

Besides. I didn't crap on your game. So there.
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I take no credit for that game, lol, beyond getting fairly sleep deprived and grumpy running it. :p

re: the rest, I will engage my inner let it go sloth as much as I can.

ktMAXu0.gif
 
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Thank you all for playing! It was very fun to mod and I'm glad you guys enjoyed it. :D
 
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Look how short this game was! :wideyed: 19 pages, including the end-game chatter.
 
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