PG2 prelim

[surgicel]

Is it possible to move from a PGY 1 prelim spot at one program to a PG2 prelim spot at another program, I know there are not many out there?

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[SouthernSurgeon]

Is it possible to move from a PGY 1 prelim spot at one program to a PG2 prelim spot at another program, I know there are not many out there?

Yes it is possible.

Is it desirable? That's another question.

 

[surgicel]

I would guess it's better than starting out pgy1 prelim at another program in case a rare chance a pgy3 spot ever opens up the next year

 

[Winged Scapula]

I would guess it's better than starting out pgy1 prelim at another program in case a rare chance a pgy3 spot ever opens up the next year

That's debatable.

IMHO it's very difficult to come into a program after intern year. From my experience you're always seen as an outsider and the bonds that have been formed between residents do not include you.

I wouldn't say that repeating the year is desirable but there is some downside to switching programs and starting as a PGY two or three.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I'd agree with @Winged Scapula 's perspective.

Navigating the prelim world is tricky business. These positions are rife with abuse.

Most commonly, PGY2 prelims are given to a PGY1 prelim that the program is interested in keeping around, but doesn't have space to give a categorical slot to. This isn't a universal rule, but it's the most common reason.

A program that is taking in a PGY2 prelim who did their prelim PGY1 year elsewhere is for some reason doing something different than that. So you have to ask why. A common concern is that they are simply seeking a warm body for service obligations. Especially in the current era where a PGY2 has an ability to take 24 hr call, unlike a PGY1.

 

[ACSurgeon]

During your prelim year you should reapply for the general match for PGY-1 positions, but also keep your eyes open for possible PGY-2 categorical positions. PGY-2 prelims do exist, and can be your way to get a categorical PGY-3, but that's a bit of a gamble.

Some people do quit after their second year (or decide to take more time to do research), so completing two years of residency certainly opens some doors, but like others noted above this can be complicated.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Is it possible to move from a PGY 1 prelim spot at one program to a PG2 prelim spot at another program, I know there are not many out there?

You also have to remember that you are limited to three total training programs to be eligible for board certification...

 

[ACSurgeon]

You also have to remember that you are limited to three total training programs to be eligible for board certification...

Do prelim years count towards this?

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Do prelim years count towards this?

Prelim years count if you are progressing.

http://www.absurgery.org/default.jsp?policynumberofprograms

If you do a PGY1 prelim at one institution, then repeat PGY1 prelim at a different program, that doesn't count towards the three program total.

But if you were to do PGY1 at one program, PGY2 at another, and PGY3 at yet another - that's your three programs. Which would only be a problem if you subsequently tried to move on to a fourth program for PGY4-5

 

[surgicel]

I was told by an attending that PG-4 year has 80 open spots as residents go into fellowships, so some of the bigger programs end up having residents from community programs, take their spots as they move programs, that's why I heard about PG 1 and 2 prelim spots but was wondering about PG3 spots for prelim if they existed so one could jump to a PG4 categorical spot in those programs after completing 3 prelim years


And about the open PG 2 spots, I thought most just end up going to prelim residents with in the program that were PG1 prelims so not sure how competitive one has to be to get them

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I was told by an attending that PG-4 year has 80 open spots as residents go into fellowships, so some of the bigger programs end up having residents from community programs, take their spots as they move programs, that's why I heard about PG 1 and 2 prelim spots but was wondering about PG3 spots for prelim if they existed so one could jump to a PG4 categorical spot in those programs after completing 3 prelim years


And about the open PG 2 spots, I thought most just end up going to prelim residents with in the program that were PG1 prelims so not sure how competitive one has to be to get them

PGY3 prelims do not exist. They were abolished by the ABS as they were largely considered dead ends and sources of abuse.

To complete a surgical residency you must do a categorical PGY3 year.

This has been looked at recently and there are some arguments on both sides. John Tarpley presented some survey results at surgery education week:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24889654

But to quote one of my faculty after that talk - "I'd trust Tarpley to do the right thing by a PGY3 prelim, but not many others"