PhD/PsyD Ph.d in Counseling?

[TORIAmist]

Just a few questions to anyone applying or to current ph.d students~~

1. Did you apply to several programs? for example Fordham-- Columbia;;
2. Do you have any research experience? if not, how can we show research experience? Do we need research experience? I took research methods-- course (no statistics no research experience) MA in Mental Health~
3. Do students (for Phd Counseling) without prior research experience even have a shot? (considering that gre are good standing)
4. For students with MA in mental health-- did you apply right away to PHd programs? Did you apply for license for MHC even though you applied to PHd programs?

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[kebc]

I'm in the application process right now (waitlist/waiting to hear) so this is only my experience speaking:

1. Yes. It's always a better idea to apply to multiple programs because you want to make sure you have a good fit - which you won't always know until interview. Since so many apply, applying to more increases your chances of getting an interview.
2. Yes - I've worked in research since 2006. You don't always need research experience though it certainly makes you more competitive, particularly for PhD programs which will have research components to them. Do you want to do research? If not, you might think about applying for Psy.D. programs instead. A course in research methods without stats isn't research experience, so unless you've done stuff on the side (it sounds like you haven't), you can't demonstrate research experience.
3. From my knowledge, I would say that your lack of research experience does put you at a disadvantage but it's necessarily a complete rule-out.
4. I graduated in 2013 with my MA in MH. I held my associate license for awhile but since I was working in research and not accruing clinical hours, I didn't renew it.

 

[TORIAmist]

I'm in the application process right now (waitlist/waiting to hear) so this is only my experience speaking:

1. Yes. It's always a better idea to apply to multiple programs because you want to make sure you have a good fit - which you won't always know until interview. Since so many apply, applying to more increases your chances of getting an interview.
2. Yes - I've worked in research since 2006. You don't always need research experience though it certainly makes you more competitive, particularly for PhD programs which will have research components to them. Do you want to do research? If not, you might think about applying for Psy.D. programs instead. A course in research methods without stats isn't research experience, so unless you've done stuff on the side (it sounds like you haven't), you can't demonstrate research experience.
3. From my knowledge, I would say that your lack of research experience does put you at a disadvantage but it's necessarily a complete rule-out.
4. I graduated in 2013 with my MA in MH. I held my associate license for awhile but since I was working in research and not accruing clinical hours, I didn't renew it.

Thank you for your advice~~ It's been very hard to find people around me going into these path; Yes, I have a lot of interest in research~ So, you mentioned that you have been working in research--- Was that a LMHC job that involved research? If you don't mind could you elaborate? I just really want to learn more and study more-- I just like the process of it and I want to go in depth-- What program/school did you apply for? and what age are you now, starting this program? How long have you been studying GRE? So should I focus strengthening my CV by going into research? I don't intend to apply yet as I am still doing MA, but I know for sure I love learning and I want to continue, which is why I thought I might get some advice from my seniority going in these paths;; or who have went with this path.

 

[eremitestar]

I'm currently finishing up my PhD in Counseling Psych (on internship, so the end is in sight!), and here is my experience:

1. Yes, absolutely apply to multiple programs. PhD programs are very competitive. They will generally take no more doc students than they can fund (my program takes 8 each year). And you are correct about fit: that is a huge factor when it comes time to make offers. I think I applied to about a dozen.
2. Yes, I had research experience, but not a ton. I worked in a lab as an undergrad for 3 years, and as a research assistant during my master's program on a few projects. I had no publications and didn't do a master's thesis, but I had been involved in multiple studies and was able to demonstrate that I could contribute to my advisor's research team and complete a dissertation when the time came. A PhD is a research degree. Yes, counseling is less research-heavy than clinical PhD's tend to be, but it's not research-free. If you have no research experience, this will make you less competitive, but is not necessarily a deal-breaker. I would try to get some before you apply, or maybe consider the PsyD route.
3. I would say it's not a deal-breaker, but trying to get some would definitely make you a stronger candidate. Additionally, programs vary in the degree to which they emphasize research, so you can always look for a more clinically-weighted program. Look for a program that describes itself as practitioner-scholar (these emphasize consuming research to inform clinical practice) as opposed to scientist-practitioner (which emphasizes contributing to the research literature).
4. I have an MA in community counseling, and I applied right away (I was accepted to my PhD program before I had finished my MA). I do have an LPC currently, but I have never used it. I currently work in the VA system, which doesn't hire LPC's, so I basically jumped through all those hoops for nothing. That being said, other students in my program were able to find paid work in the field at community mental health agencies or by seeing a few private practice clients because they were licensed at the master's level. It's certainly not necessary, but it can be helpful if you know how to leverage it.

Feel free to message me if you have any other questions about counseling psych!!

 

[kebc]

Thank you for your advice~~ It's been very hard to find people around me going into these path; Yes, I have a lot of interest in research~ So, you mentioned that you have been working in research--- Was that a LMHC job that involved research? If you don't mind could you elaborate? I just really want to learn more and study more-- I just like the process of it and I want to go in depth-- What program/school did you apply for? and what age are you now, starting this program? How long have you been studying GRE? So should I focus strengthening my CV by going into research? I don't intend to apply yet as I am still doing MA, but I know for sure I love learning and I want to continue, which is why I thought I might get some advice from my seniority going in these paths;; or who have went with this path.

My research job is one that I held prior to getting my master's degree. I'm a research specialist at a VA hospital, though I have done other research as well (starting in undergrad and after I graduated). I got my MHC degree while holding the research job.

I applied for both clinical and counseling programs because I applied based on interests/faculty match/program match more than degree type.

I'll be 29 this year.

I studied for the GRE for about two months? Informally, though.

Going into research, especially if you've never done it, is a great idea. A lot of people realize that they don't like research once they start doing it and that is a VERY important thing to know before applying for PhD programs. It also helps you focus your clinical/research interests.

I currently work in the VA system, which doesn't hire LPC's, so I basically jumped through all those hoops for nothing.

They do now! I've been seeing posts for fully licensed LMHCs for a couple of years but I recently noticed that the job postings have changed to include exceptions for people who haven't accrued all of their hours yet. Moot point, as you're finishing your PhD, but still exciting!

 

[TORIAmist]

I'm currently finishing up my PhD in Counseling Psych (on internship, so the end is in sight!), and here is my experience:

1. Yes, absolutely apply to multiple programs. PhD programs are very competitive. They will generally take no more doc students than they can fund (my program takes 8 each year). And you are correct about fit: that is a huge factor when it comes time to make offers. I think I applied to about a dozen.
2. Yes, I had research experience, but not a ton. I worked in a lab as an undergrad for 3 years, and as a research assistant during my master's program on a few projects. I had no publications and didn't do a master's thesis, but I had been involved in multiple studies and was able to demonstrate that I could contribute to my advisor's research team and complete a dissertation when the time came. A PhD is a research degree. Yes, counseling is less research-heavy than clinical PhD's tend to be, but it's not research-free. If you have no research experience, this will make you less competitive, but is not necessarily a deal-breaker. I would try to get some before you apply, or maybe consider the PsyD route.
3. I would say it's not a deal-breaker, but trying to get some would definitely make you a stronger candidate. Additionally, programs vary in the degree to which they emphasize research, so you can always look for a more clinically-weighted program. Look for a program that describes itself as practitioner-scholar (these emphasize consuming research to inform clinical practice) as opposed to scientist-practitioner (which emphasizes contributing to the research literature).
4. I have an MA in community counseling, and I applied right away (I was accepted to my PhD program before I had finished my MA). I do have an LPC currently, but I have never used it. I currently work in the VA system, which doesn't hire LPC's, so I basically jumped through all those hoops for nothing. That being said, other students in my program were able to find paid work in the field at community mental health agencies or by seeing a few private practice clients because they were licensed at the master's level. It's certainly not necessary, but it can be helpful if you know how to leverage it.

Feel free to message me if you have any other questions about counseling psych!!

thank you~ so much~!!!

 

[TORIAmist]

My research job is one that I held prior to getting my master's degree. I'm a research specialist at a VA hospital, though I have done other research as well (starting in undergrad and after I graduated). I got my MHC degree while holding the research job.

I applied for both clinical and counseling programs because I applied based on interests/faculty match/program match more than degree type.

I'll be 29 this year.

I studied for the GRE for about two months? Informally, though.

Going into research, especially if you've never done it, is a great idea. A lot of people realize that they don't like research once they start doing it and that is a VERY important thing to know before applying for PhD programs. It also helps you focus your clinical/research interests.




They do now! I've been seeing posts for fully licensed LMHCs for a couple of years but I recently noticed that the job postings have changed to include exceptions for people who haven't accrued all of their hours yet. Moot point, as you're finishing your PhD, but still exciting!

 

[TORIAmist]

Ohh~~ I see-- the current job I have while i'm doing this MA is not research based-- maybe I should gain experience in research that way~~ somehow~ hopefully~ hahahahha lol~ But thank you so much~ both of you have been so helpful~

 

[TORIAmist]

hbk

 

[kebc]

Ohh~~ I see-- the current job I have while i'm doing this MA is not research based-- maybe I should gain experience in research that way~~ somehow~ hopefully~ hahahahha lol~ But thank you so much~ both of you have been so helpful~

A lot of researchers will let you volunteer as an RA if you don't want to leave your current job!

Good luck!

 

[eremitestar]

They do now! I've been seeing posts for fully licensed LMHCs for a couple of years but I recently noticed that the job postings have changed to include exceptions for people who haven't accrued all of their hours yet. Moot point, as you're finishing your PhD, but still exciting!

True! I have heard rumblings about this as well, and I'm very glad about it as I know some amazing LPCs. Too bad it's too late to be of much use to me

thank you~ so much~!!!

You are very welcome, and I wish you all the best!!

 

[futureapppsy2]

OP, are you talking about a PhD in Counseling or Counseling Psychology? They are very different things, in terms of what they prepare you for.

 

[TORIAmist]

OP, are you talking about a PhD in Counseling or Counseling Psychology? They are very different things, in terms of what they prepare you for.

I meant specifically PHD in Counseling Pyschology-- More specific NYU program-- Fordham-- and Teachers College as those are the only ones APA accredited in NY

 

[TORIAmist]

OP, are you talking about a PhD in Counseling or Counseling Psychology? They are very different things, in terms of what they prepare you for.

What was your career path? What MA did you go into or did you go right into PHD after BA? GPA? Scores? Research? anything you can share would help

 

[wtfook]

I'm currently finishing up my PhD in Counseling Psych (on internship, so the end is in sight!), and here is my experience:

1. Yes, absolutely apply to multiple programs. PhD programs are very competitive. They will generally take no more doc students than they can fund (my program takes 8 each year). And you are correct about fit: that is a huge factor when it comes time to make offers. I think I applied to about a dozen.
2. Yes, I had research experience, but not a ton. I worked in a lab as an undergrad for 3 years, and as a research assistant during my master's program on a few projects. I had no publications and didn't do a master's thesis, but I had been involved in multiple studies and was able to demonstrate that I could contribute to my advisor's research team and complete a dissertation when the time came. A PhD is a research degree. Yes, counseling is less research-heavy than clinical PhD's tend to be, but it's not research-free. If you have no research experience, this will make you less competitive, but is not necessarily a deal-breaker. I would try to get some before you apply, or maybe consider the PsyD route.
3. I would say it's not a deal-breaker, but trying to get some would definitely make you a stronger candidate. Additionally, programs vary in the degree to which they emphasize research, so you can always look for a more clinically-weighted program. Look for a program that describes itself as practitioner-scholar (these emphasize consuming research to inform clinical practice) as opposed to scientist-practitioner (which emphasizes contributing to the research literature).
4. I have an MA in community counseling, and I applied right away (I was accepted to my PhD program before I had finished my MA). I do have an LPC currently, but I have never used it. I currently work in the VA system, which doesn't hire LPC's, so I basically jumped through all those hoops for nothing. That being said, other students in my program were able to find paid work in the field at community mental health agencies or by seeing a few private practice clients because they were licensed at the master's level. It's certainly not necessary, but it can be helpful if you know how to leverage it.

Feel free to message me if you have any other questions about counseling psych!!

Hi I know you wrote this over a year ago but I was wondering, did you get your LPC while you were doing your PhD? It's something I'm considering because a woman helping us study for the NCE said it would be beneficial later in the job market. However, I don't see how it's feasible to do a PhD and get those hours within the first 5 years of your completed master's without going insane.

 

[eremitestar]

Hi I know you wrote this over a year ago but I was wondering, did you get your LPC while you were doing your PhD? It's something I'm considering because a woman helping us study for the NCE said it would be beneficial later in the job market. However, I don't see how it's feasible to do a PhD and get those hours within the first 5 years of your completed master's without going insane.

State requirements differ. I got licensed in a state that required letters of recommendation instead of post-degree hours. I definitely wouldn't have been able to do it in a state that required 2000 hours with just my practicum placements. That said, I never used it and have since stopped paying to renew it. Really, I feel like it was just a waste of time and money. There were two people in my program who were licensed as LPCs and actually used them. They worked at a private practice seeing a couple clients per week to make some extra money. They couldn't count those hours on their internship applications, but they could list in on their CVs. If I had it to do over again, I probably wouldn't bother. And I really don't think it's helpful on the job market. If you want to get paid as a psychologist, you need to be licensed as a psychologist, which trumps the LPC. The only exception I can think of is if you want to be a faculty member in a CACREP-accredited counseling program. They care more about licensure as a counselor than as a psychologist. What might be more helpful is if your state has some kind of pre-psychologist licensure (some have masters-level psychologists, or licensed psychological associates, something along those lines). Going that route would let you take the EPPP early and give you a head start when it comes time to apply for your full license. I wish I'd done that instead, tbh.

 

[wtfook]

I'm currently finishing up my PhD in Counseling Psych (on internship, so the end is in sight!), and here is my experience:

1. Yes, absolutely apply to multiple programs. PhD programs are very competitive. They will generally take no more doc students than they can fund (my program takes 8 each year). And you are correct about fit: that is a huge factor when it comes time to make offers. I think I applied to about a dozen.
2. Yes, I had research experience, but not a ton. I worked in a lab as an undergrad for 3 years, and as a research assistant during my master's program on a few projects. I had no publications and didn't do a master's thesis, but I had been involved in multiple studies and was able to demonstrate that I could contribute to my advisor's research team and complete a dissertation when the time came. A PhD is a research degree. Yes, counseling is less research-heavy than clinical PhD's tend to be, but it's not research-free. If you have no research experience, this will make you less competitive, but is not necessarily a deal-breaker. I would try to get some before you apply, or maybe consider the PsyD route.
3. I would say it's not a deal-breaker, but trying to get some would definitely make you a stronger candidate. Additionally, programs vary in the degree to which they emphasize research, so you can always look for a more clinically-weighted program. Look for a program that describes itself as practitioner-scholar (these emphasize consuming research to inform clinical practice) as opposed to scientist-practitioner (which emphasizes contributing to the research literature).
4. I have an MA in community counseling, and I applied right away (I was accepted to my PhD program before I had finished my MA). I do have an LPC currently, but I have never used it. I currently work in the VA system, which doesn't hire LPC's, so I basically jumped through all those hoops for nothing. That being said, other students in my program were able to find paid work in the field at community mental health agencies or by seeing a few private practice clients because they were licensed at the master's level. It's certainly not necessary, but it can be helpful if you know how to leverage it.

Feel free to message me if you have any other questions about counseling psych!!

Hi I just saw your comment and I know it's a bit old but I'm wondering, did you get your LPC while you were doing your PhD? I'm applying right now to PhD programs and I'm finishing my master's in mental health counseling. Many of my profs are saying I should get the LPC while as a doctoral student because why not but I didn't know if you could double dip training hours, if it was possible to find supervisors who qualified, and if it was even worth it in the end. Thanks for your help!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I didn't know if you could double dip training hours

You can't. The scope of practices are different and the requirements may be different (e.g. # of individual supervision hours), as each state has their own licensing boards and statutes for minimum training requirements.

 

[50MinuteHour]

Just a few questions to anyone applying or to current ph.d students~~

1. Did you apply to several programs? for example Fordham-- Columbia;;
2. Do you have any research experience? if not, how can we show research experience? Do we need research experience? I took research methods-- course (no statistics no research experience) MA in Mental Health~
3. Do students (for Phd Counseling) without prior research experience even have a shot? (considering that gre are good standing)
4. For students with MA in mental health-- did you apply right away to PHd programs? Did you apply for license for MHC even though you applied to PHd programs?

1. Yes, I applied to several programs.
2. Yes, I have LOTS of research experience. I do believe research experience is necessary - projects, posters, papers, publications...basically as many of those as you can possibly nail and for as long of a duration in experience as is possible. Remember, there will ALWAYS be stellar students who have these qualities and are applying. How would you intend to stand out from them when such a core experience is absent?
3. Highly unlikely.
4. No. I took time off after my MA to recharge, get licensed, get even more research experience, and try to construct a CV that shows I am already doing what someone with a PhD would do. I believe the time off and the extra experiences really helped to boost my chances.

 

[eremitestar]

Hi I just saw your comment and I know it's a bit old but I'm wondering, did you get your LPC while you were doing your PhD? I'm applying right now to PhD programs and I'm finishing my master's in mental health counseling. Many of my profs are saying I should get the LPC while as a doctoral student because why not but I didn't know if you could double dip training hours, if it was possible to find supervisors who qualified, and if it was even worth it in the end. Thanks for your help!

I did, but as I said above, I don't know that I'd recommend it. It was a huge pain, and I didn't really get anything out of it. Now that I have my doctorate, I've stopped paying to renew it. Really, the only advantage was that I didn't have to retake the jurisprudence exam when I applied for licensure as a psychologist.

You can't.

That's not true, or at least not in every state. When I was getting my LPC, the requirement was that my supervisors be licensed at the master's level or higher, so psychologists counted. That allowed me to count doctoral practicum hours toward master's level licensure. Not sure if that would fly in every state, but several people in my program got licensed as LPC's that way.

 

[wtfook]

Awesome. Thank you so much for the response!

 

[Justanothergrad]

1. As others, yes- always apply to several programs
2. Yes, I had a substantial amount prior to application (several publications and a large number of presentations)
3. Research is an attractive aspect to a candidate. It's possible without (I've seen folks get in various programs every year without any), but its swimming upstream. Without stats courses, you are at a disadvantage, but you may want to (if you consider applying without getting involved with RA work) focus on schools with a more practitioner focus.
4. I worked for a few years between my MA and PhD