Pharm.D and then go for M.D - Suggestions?

[Dzialo]

Hello,

I am completing my course work for my Pharm.D, and I kind of wish I went into Medical School for my M.D. I have been seriously thinking about getting my Pharm.D, working for a few years [1-2], and then attend Medical School. Either a US MD Program, or Carbbian MD [SGU].

Becoming a Psychiatrist has always been one of the things I always wanted to do. I am worried I am not going to like the limited growth potential in Pharmacy, and 'prestige' level accoated with Pharhacy. Not that it's a bad path or anything. I just fear rejection and such from other people, such as MDs...

What do you think about my plans? Haha.

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[Bacchus]

You may not be required to finish the 6 years for your PharmD. Speaking from personal experience (my UG has a pharmacy school) I know that the class of '14 and all future classes will receive B.S. in Pharm degrees if they for some reason can not finish the program but can make it through four years (we're a direct program). See if this is an option at your university. If it is, you can apply and have the necessary degree upon matriculation.

 

[jeaneous]

I currently work inpt psych and love it!! Any experience in psych?

 

[jeaneous]

Hello,

I am worried I am not going to like the limited growth potential in Pharmacy, and 'prestige' level accoated with Pharhacy.

By the way, 'prestige' level is a common complaint I hear floating around from other psychiatrists.

 

[Kaustikos]

Hello,

I am completing my course work for my Pharm.D, and I kind of wish I went into Medical School for my M.D. I have been seriously thinking about getting my Pharm.D, working for a few years [1-2], and then attend Medical School. Either a US MD Program, or Carbbian MD [SGU].

Becoming a Psychiatrist has always been one of the things I always wanted to do. I am worried I am not going to like the limited growth potential in Pharmacy, and 'prestige' level accoated with Pharhacy. Not that it's a bad path or anything. I just fear rejection and such from other people, such as MDs...

What do you think about my plans? Haha.

Well, here's the thing. Pharmacists aren't looked down upon, at least not in my experience. They also seem to have the most fun pointing fun at some of the horrid handwriting of Doctors.

But so far, I know of TWO Pharmacists going into Medical School. Both stuck it out and finished their Pharmacy program because of the advantage of the education in Medical School and the income you can earn while applyin (100k/year can be hugely beneficial). Not to mention there are so many "part-time" pharmacist that you can basically work as a Pharmacist during your breaks if you need to. I'd say finish your program and then apply. No sense wasting all that tuition when it can earn you a respectable income and a great education you can take with you to Medical School.

Also, how awesome would it be to be able to write prescriptions AND fill them?

 

[Dzialo]

Well, here's the thing. Pharmacists aren't looked down upon, at least not in my experience. They also seem to have the most fun pointing fun at some of the horrid handwriting of Doctors.

But so far, I know of TWO Pharmacists going into Medical School. Both stuck it out and finished their Pharmacy program because of the advantage of the education in Medical School and the income you can earn while applyin (100k/year can be hugely beneficial). Not to mention there are so many "part-time" pharmacist that you can basically work as a Pharmacist during your breaks if you need to. I'd say finish your program and then apply. No sense wasting all that tuition when it can earn you a respectable income and a great education you can take with you to Medical School.

Also, how awesome would it be to be able to write prescriptions AND fill them?

Haha, yes.

I actually had a dream where I had my own private practice with a Pharamacy. I made make from filling their Rx's and their session.

I wanted to complete my Pharm.D, and then I could always work on the side to make some decent money, or save for a few years and then apply. I may have to brush up for that MCAT, though.

 

[Dzialo]

By the way, 'prestige' level is a common complaint I hear floating around from other psychiatrists.

Do you mean they complain about ''prestige."

Some of the psychiatrists I have spoken to say it can be a depressing and lonely carrer. Often working alone, and listening to the problems of others.

 

[Dzialo]

You may not be required to finish the 6 years for your PharmD. Speaking from personal experience (my UG has a pharmacy school) I know that the class of '14 and all future classes will receive B.S. in Pharm degrees if they for some reason can not finish the program but can make it through four years (we're a direct program). See if this is an option at your university. If it is, you can apply and have the necessary degree upon matriculation.

Interesting.

Would I be able to return to school if I ever wanted my Pharm.D and just 'pick up' where I left off?

I choose Pharmacy as it seems a little 'demanding' then Medical School, and I could begin work right after I finish without worring about residencies, etc.

But I suppose I would not the challange.
Adderall helpes me along in Pharmacy...

 

[mydodger]

Since no one has mentioned it: How much debt are you going to accumulate through all this? It's something you should consider seriously.

 

[STXGregor]

Haha, yes.

I actually had a dream where I had my own private practice with a Pharamacy. I made make from filling their Rx's and their session.

I wanted to complete my Pharm.D, and then I could always work on the side to make some decent money, or save for a few years and then apply. I may have to brush up for that MCAT, though.

Yeah, I always thought it would be great to own a practice, and have a pharmacy right in your office. I think in TX (and maybe other states?), there are actually laws against that to curb arrangements between doctors/pharmacists that lead to people being prescribed medications simply to up script counts. Been a while since I heard this, so I dunno about the validity.

 

[Bacchus]

Interesting.

Would I be able to return to school if I ever wanted my Pharm.D and just 'pick up' where I left off?

I choose Pharmacy as it seems a little 'demanding' then Medical School, and I could begin work right after I finish without worring about residencies, etc.

But I suppose I would not the challange.
Adderall helpes me along in Pharmacy...

You'll need to talk to your pharmacy curricular office to see if my story is even plausible and then discuss reentry later on.

 

[RxMD]

I'll just say a few things. I am currently a Pharm.D, working hospital / clinical in ICU / critical care for about 2.5 years AFTER completing a 1 year post-grad residency. I started out as a chemistry major prior to pharm, so basically went to school for 7 years, residency for 1 year, now worked for ~2.5, and am right in the middle of applying for medical school for '09.

Make sure you're doing it for the right reasons, and finish your pharmacy degree. You will likely not be able to go back and finish it later, as class size and competition is similar (though not to the degree) to med school. the experience and education will be invaluable, and how many other med students can work part-time for $50+/hour? Thats another point, make sure your finances are in a place to handle this kind of move. This is such a committment that you need to be stable, mature, 100% sure and also have a good support system. I would not have even considered it if my wife and family didn't support me completely. Don't go back for any prestige or recognition. I'm not at all saying you are, these are just the questions you have to ask yourself - I asked them myself.

Also, be careful on this website. You will find a ton of people that will tell you that you're crazy. They talk about the debt, opportunity cost, passing up a good salary, etc. If you've made the decision, stick to it. Also, don't listen to the people that tell you one way or another about a disadvantage or advantage during the app process. The med schools will look at your degree as they do ANY other, with no special consideration. BUT, they will also like the clinical experience that you can get while working and on rotations while in your last year. Stay current on MCAT material. I had to study organic and physics 10 years after taking them in college. It was rough. Keep those grades up, get some clinical and volunteer experience.

Bottom line: go for it if its the right decision for YOU. make a committment either way. Best of luck.

 

[Kaustikos]

I'll just say a few things. I am currently a Pharm.D, working hospital / clinical in ICU / critical care for about 2.5 years AFTER completing a 1 year post-grad residency. I started out as a chemistry major prior to pharm, so basically went to school for 7 years, residency for 1 year, now worked for ~2.5, and am right in the middle of applying for medical school for '09.

Make sure you're doing it for the right reasons, and finish your pharmacy degree. You will likely not be able to go back and finish it later, as class size and competition is similar (though not to the degree) to med school. the experience and education will be invaluable, and how many other med students can work part-time for $50+/hour? Thats another point, make sure your finances are in a place to handle this kind of move. This is such a committment that you need to be stable, mature, 100% sure and also have a good support system. I would not have even considered it if my wife and family didn't support me completely. Don't go back for any prestige or recognition. I'm not at all saying you are, these are just the questions you have to ask yourself - I asked them myself.

Also, be careful on this website. You will find a ton of people that will tell you that you're crazy. They talk about the debt, opportunity cost, passing up a good salary, etc. If you've made the decision, stick to it. Also, don't listen to the people that tell you one way or another about a disadvantage or advantage during the app process. The med schools will look at your degree as they do ANY other, with no special consideration. BUT, they will also like the clinical experience that you can get while working and on rotations while in your last year. Stay current on MCAT material. I had to study organic and physics 10 years after taking them in college. It was rough. Keep those grades up, get some clinical and volunteer experience.

Bottom line: go for it if its the right decision for YOU. make a committment either way. Best of luck.

Interesting. You would think that a PharmD would hold more weight than the average, considering the vast experience in clinical setting and knowledge gained that can be applied to medical school.
I made that arguement with an Admissions staff member at a Medical School and he wouldn't hear it. He seemed to be under the belief that going into a PharmD (or pharmacology/toxicology) would be the same as going into graduate school for anything (biology). I disagree, though I'm not saying I'm right.

 

[Kaustikos]

What exactly about a PharmD gives you vast experience in a "clinical setting?" Are you sure you're defining clinical experience in the same way that medical schools define it? Because I have a friend in WashU's (St. Louis) pharmacy program, and he definitely hasn't mentioned doing anything that medical schools really consider clinical.

I would agree with the adcoms, because they sort of ARE the final answer on the matter.

Edit: I just remembered that it's not WashU's pharmacy program, it's the St. Louis College of Pharmacy which is in some manner affiliated with WashU. He always gets pissed when I say he goes to WashU.

You mean pharmacists don't work in hospitals? wtf. Yes, there are retail pharmacies, but remember they also exist in hospitals. And how else would you define clinical experience?

They are the "final" answer, but right? That can be debated.

 

[RxMD]

What exactly about a PharmD gives you vast experience in a "clinical setting?" Are you sure you're defining clinical experience in the same way that medical schools define it? Because I have a friend in WashU's (St. Louis) pharmacy program, and he definitely hasn't mentioned doing anything that medical schools really consider clinical.

I would agree with the adcoms, because they sort of ARE the final answer on the matter.

Edit: I just remembered that it's not WashU's pharmacy program, it's the St. Louis College of Pharmacy which is in some manner affiliated with WashU. He always gets pissed when I say he goes to WashU.

You're basically showing your "vast" INexperience in clinical settings if you think pharmacists in the hospital are not involved in clinical care. Every day I round with the physicians in the ICU, attend multi-disciplinary care team rounds and consult patients on bariatric surgeries, warfarin dosing, pain team assessments, etc. Many MD orders actually state things such as "Vancomycin IV - Pharmacy To Dose". We adjust TPN's daily, renally adjust doses for renal clearance, etc. I can go on and on. MD's are the final say, but many of their specific orders tell the pharmacist straight-up: dose it. Most hospitals have numerous policies giving the pharmacist the authority to adjust doses based on pharmacokinetic levels, renal clearance, age, allergies, fall risk, etc. Granted, this is only with medications, but are medications not part of the patient's entire clinical picture?

That IS clinical experience. I don't know what adcoms you'd be talking to that would say that it is NOT. Adcoms may not treat the degree itself any differently, but I would venture to guess that most Pharm.D. students have more clinical experience than volunteering in a hospital 2 hours / week and adcoms would appreciate that. Knowing the various roles of the healthcare team members is also very important, and understanding what each contributes to the effort is key in knowing how hospitals operate and how patient care is delivered. I might suggest getting a little experience there before making assumptions.

 

[coffeebythelake]

I just fear rejection and such from other people, such as MDs...

That doesn't really happen. And pharmacists know a heck of a lot more about drugs than MDs.

 

[rx515]

Good to some others out their in a similar situation as myself. I'm actually on rotations right now and have been applying this cycle to medical school. I figured if I didn't do it now, it would be hard to adjust my life later on.. If it doesn't work out, well im still a pharmacist. So i guess think about that when deciding whether or not to finish your degree. How bout tomorrow being the 15th...

 

[ANF1986]

You're basically showing your "vast" INexperience in clinical settings if you think pharmacists in the hospital are not involved in clinical care. Every day I round with the physicians in the ICU, attend multi-disciplinary care team rounds and consult patients on bariatric surgeries, warfarin dosing, pain team assessments, etc. Many MD orders actually state things such as "Vancomycin IV - Pharmacy To Dose". We adjust TPN's daily, renally adjust doses for renal clearance, etc. I can go on and on. MD's are the final say, but many of their specific orders tell the pharmacist straight-up: dose it. Most hospitals have numerous policies giving the pharmacist the authority to adjust doses based on pharmacokinetic levels, renal clearance, age, allergies, fall risk, etc. Granted, this is only with medications, but are medications not part of the patient's entire clinical picture?

That IS clinical experience. I don't know what adcoms you'd be talking to that would say that it is NOT. Adcoms may not treat the degree itself any differently, but I would venture to guess that most Pharm.D. students have more clinical experience than volunteering in a hospital 2 hours / week and adcoms would appreciate that. Knowing the various roles of the healthcare team members is also very important, and understanding what each contributes to the effort is key in knowing how hospitals operate and how patient care is delivered. I might suggest getting a little experience there before making assumptions.

Good post...purely out of curiosity... Are you addressed as "Doctor" so long as you are in a non-clinical setting?


Anyway to the OP...I think by leaving the program you do much more harm than good in TWO ways. First, you are passing up the opportunity to make a very reasonable income should something not go right during the application process. Second, you appear to the adcoms to be committed to something "for a little while" and then you quit. They might wonder if you changed your mind about PharmD, will you also change your mind about MD? I think you should stick it out...

 

[Kaustikos]

You're basically showing your "vast" INexperience in clinical settings if you think pharmacists in the hospital are not involved in clinical care. Every day I round with the physicians in the ICU, attend multi-disciplinary care team rounds and consult patients on bariatric surgeries, warfarin dosing, pain team assessments, etc. Many MD orders actually state things such as "Vancomycin IV - Pharmacy To Dose". We adjust TPN's daily, renally adjust doses for renal clearance, etc. I can go on and on. MD's are the final say, but many of their specific orders tell the pharmacist straight-up: dose it. Most hospitals have numerous policies giving the pharmacist the authority to adjust doses based on pharmacokinetic levels, renal clearance, age, allergies, fall risk, etc. Granted, this is only with medications, but are medications not part of the patient's entire clinical picture?

That IS clinical experience. I don't know what adcoms you'd be talking to that would say that it is NOT. Adcoms may not treat the degree itself any differently, but I would venture to guess that most Pharm.D. students have more clinical experience than volunteering in a hospital 2 hours / week and adcoms would appreciate that. Knowing the various roles of the healthcare team members is also very important, and understanding what each contributes to the effort is key in knowing how hospitals operate and how patient care is delivered. I might suggest getting a little experience there before making assumptions.

I should start hanging out in the pharmacy section of SDN. I tend to get along better with you guys. Why I wish I kept my job as a pharmacy tech.

Excellent post.

 

[littlealex]

All I can say is dude, don't go into med school because you feel insecure about how PharmD's are looked upon. It's not worth it I think, especially considering that you'll already have a doctorate degree.

Also it's spelled Caribbean.