Pharmacist Debt Load

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Monsterdaddy said:
Based on a CBO report. Get your head on straight.



SO WHAT??? REALLY WTF are you so freaking butt hurt over the better pharmacists earning better money AND getting their loans forgiven??? Oh that's right, your head is so deep into retail you just want everyone to earn the same money.
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First, I don't work for retail.

Second, why would I and other tax payers want to pay more taxes for people who can actually afford to pay off their student loans? You are the one who decided to go to a private school with high tuition (or maybe because you couldn't get into a better school). That was your choice so it is your problem.
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Monsterdaddy said:
Well, get ready to be pissed when I get $400K in loans and accrued interest forgiven. Enjoy!
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It is going to be a race against time. Just wait until 2017 when the government starts to forgive these loans to well paid healthcare professionals. I can already hear the public outcry.
 
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Monsterdaddy said:
Well, get ready to be pissed when I get $400K in loans and accrued interest forgiven. Enjoy!
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Just a prime example of the future pharmacists of America...

No accountability, just stupidity in action.
 
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Another way for the government to change the program is to limit the number of non profit and public hospitals that would qualify for PSLF. Make they apply for it just like the H1 visa program. If there is a great need, then they wouldn't have a problem applying for it. In addition, this would provide government assistance to places that need it the most.
 
^ that is good money. How much does kaiser pay their family doctor then?
 
BMBiology said:
^ that is good money. How much does kaiser pay their family doctor then?
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Good question, I did a google search and found a huge range. I'm thinking it depends on your workload, as there are probably physicians that work all over the place. $94k-$250k/yr for internal med docs.
 
I hear kaiser pays their pharmacist just as well as their family doc. Just to show you how much influence a union has.
 
You guys are so seriously narrow minded its pathetic. Like I said PSLF is not just for pharmacists or hospitals, we make up a tiny percentage of potential PSLF recipients. Seriously, you think public policy is going to change because of your butthurt perceptions of a few hospitals???

Doctors, nurses, soldiers, police, firemen, teachers all have a stake in PSLF too.

Hey VP_Pharm2004, did you know that these people can also get MILLIONS forgiven for the ParentPLUS loans of their CHILDREN under PSLF? All grandfathered in the Promissory Note!

And one last time, anyone who views forgiveness as a standalone tax burden is an idiot. The programs as a whole needs to be evaluated and as long as it is profitable from the interest payments, there really will be no outcry.
 
Monsterdaddy said:
You guys are so seriously narrow minded its pathetic. Like I said PSLF is not just for pharmacists or hospitals, we make up a tiny percentage of potential PSLF recipients. Seriously, you think public policy is going to change because of your butthurt perceptions of a few hospitals???

Doctors, nurses, soldiers, police, firemen, teachers all have a stake in PSLF too.

Hey VP_Pharm2004, did you know that these people can also get MILLIONS forgiven for the ParentPLUS loans of their CHILDREN under PSLF? All grandfathered in the Promissory Note!

And one last time, anyone who views forgiveness as a standalone tax burden is an idiot. The programs as a whole needs to be evaluated and as long as it is profitable from the interest payments, there really will be no outcry.
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People also don't understand discretionary vs. non-discretionary spending. People apply the politics of one to the other and it does not compute, especially for public/PR credentials.
 
umm is anybody still paying off their loans? a bunch of people i know are paying like $1000-2000 a month. i refuse to pay so much tax because i know it mostly goes to all kinds of idiots. thats why i just got married and bought a home to reduce my tax
 
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rxglasshalffull said:
umm is anybody still paying off their loans? a bunch of people i know are paying like $1000-2000 a month. i refuse to pay so much tax because i know it mostly goes to all kinds of idiots. thats why i just got married and bought a home to reduce my tax
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You got married to reduce your tax burden--not because you were in love...
 
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^^ marrying for love is so 90s. Now it is all about the tax refund! LOL
 
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look guys, i married for love but the timing of the marriage is because of of tax refund. three years ago, i dumped a doctor doing his residency to be with my SO.
and lets be real here. money is king, if i get more money for hurrying up my wedding, ill do it in a heartbeat.
 
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To be fair, when I decided to propose, I had also thought it through on both love and finance. there is nothing wrong with that. Money problem is cited as the number one reason for divorce. Marrying a liberal arts sex kitten that make you go nuts might sound(and feel great)... until she takes half and alimony. Marriage needs love, but it just as much needs sound financial planning.
 
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VP_Pharm2004 said:
What is all this bull **** about loan forgiveness?

I'll be so pissed if I worked my ass off to pay off my loans while others taking out 300k are forgiven?! Forgiven for what? For being stupid?
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lol this actually made me smirk a little
 
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I'm about to be a P3. Including 4 years of undergrad at UK where I had in-state tuition and in-state tuition in Cincinnati, I owe about 70,000 currently. I have no credit card debt, and I probably owe my dad some money (about 3,000 but not like he's holding me to it, I just will pay him back anyway). After scholarships and tuition reimbursement from work along with accidentally taking out too much money this past year, I will need to take out about 13000 for this coming school year. That's 83000 (not sure if it'd be like 85K with interest), and then whatever I need 4th year.

Side note: I come from a comfortable, but humble family. For example, I drove a minivan all throughout college (picking up girls at the sorority houses for dates was the WORST!!). I also am very good at living frugally, and don't spend that much money on myself.
 
dbarth101 said:
I'm about to be a P3. Including 4 years of undergrad at UK where I had in-state tuition and in-state tuition in Cincinnati, I owe about 70,000 currently. I have no credit card debt, and I probably owe my dad some money (about 3,000 but not like he's holding me to it, I just will pay him back anyway). After scholarships and tuition reimbursement from work along with accidentally taking out too much money this past year, I will need to take out about 13000 for this coming school year. That's 83000 (not sure if it'd be like 85K with interest), and then whatever I need 4th year.

Side note: I come from a comfortable, but humble family. For example, I drove a minivan all throughout college (picking up girls at the sorority houses for dates was the WORST!!). I also am very good at living frugally, and don't spend that much money on myself.
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I am disappointed that you are living frugally. Have you even heard of PSLF? Borrow as much as you can then work for the public or non profit organization (most hospitals are non profit btw) for 10 years and your debt is forgiven!! Gone, just like that. Your debt will be given.

You only live once right? You are only young once right? Live it up, my friend. Pick up your sorority gf in a fancy car next time. The government got your back.
 
BMBiology said:
I am disappointed that you are living frugally. Have you even heard of PSLF? Borrow as much as you can then work for the public or non profit organization (most hospitals are non profit btw) for 10 years and your debt is forgiven!! Gone, just like that. Your debt will be given.

You only live once right? You are only young once right? Live it up, my friend. Pick up your sorority gf in a fancy car next time. The government got your back.
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This is solid advice, I'm considering doing this myself.
Life is short - live it up. You deserve it.
 
Guilded_Age said:
This is solid advice, I'm considering doing this myself.
Life is short - live it up. You deserve it.
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Yes, like everyone else your saving rate should be around 5% every year!!! Spend it all foo~ YOLO!
 
Momus said:
Yes, like everyone else your saving rate should be around 5% every year!!! Spend it all foo~ YOLO!
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Um 5% is still way too high.... Daddy needs a new jet ski yearly
 
Momus said:
Yes, like everyone else your saving rate should be around 5% every year!!! Spend it all foo~ YOLO!
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Don't you mean negative 5%? Because, you know, spending Other People's Money makes you financially smart and sophisticated right?
 
BMBiology said:
I am disappointed that you are living frugally. Have you even heard of PSLF? Borrow as much as you can then work for the public or non profit organization (most hospitals are non profit btw) for 10 years and your debt is forgiven!! Gone, just like that. Your debt will be given.

You only live once right? You are only young once right? Live it up, my friend. Pick up your sorority gf in a fancy car next time. The government got your back.
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oh I want to avoid responding to this but can't

You can do both - I save 20% yet I still went on four "passport" trips this year and never skimp on "fun things" I just don't drive a fancy car and live in a simple cheap townhouse.
 
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BMBiology said:
I am disappointed that you are living frugally. Have you even heard of PSLF? Borrow as much as you can then work for the public or non profit organization (most hospitals are non profit btw) for 10 years and your debt is forgiven!! Gone, just like that. Your debt will be given.

You only live once right? You are only young once right? Live it up, my friend. Pick up your sorority gf in a fancy car next time. The government got your back.
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Ahhhh... the one that got away. She was a sweet, southern Chi O. Now she's in PA school, while I wallow away in self-pity. If someone would have told me of such forgiveness by the government then I would have had her.

BTW-side note: I once saw this guy in like dental forums or something (have no clue how I ventured there), but he racked up like $750k in student loans. He was in some kind of dental residency where you actually had to pay. Are there non-profit dental jobs? I want to pay it forward.
 
dbarth101 said:
Ahhhh... the one that got away. She was a sweet, southern Chi O. Now she's in PA school, while I wallow away in self-pity. If someone would have told me of such forgiveness by the government then I would have had her.

BTW-side note: I once saw this guy in like dental forums or something (have no clue how I ventured there), but he racked up like $750k in student loans. He was in some kind of dental residency where you actually had to pay. Are there non-profit dental jobs? I want to pay it forward.
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The guy who won her over probably maxed out his student loans. The government got his back!

Do girls really care where the guy get his money? A ring from Uncle Sam = a ring from working your butt off at CVS?
 
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BMBiology said:
The guy who won her over probably maxed out his student loans. The government got his back!

Do girls really care where the guy get his money? A ring from Uncle Sam = a ring from working your butt off at CVS?
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Hi, didn't you calculate out PSLF for pharmacists a while ago? At how much debt would it be a better deal than paying off the debt straight up?
 
a student said:
Hi, didn't you calculate out PSLF for pharmacists a while ago? At how much debt would it be a better deal than paying off the debt straight up?
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This question is pretty straight forward but difficult to answer.

How much are you willing to sacrifice? Your youth, time, lifestyle

How much risk are you willing to take knowing the government can change the rules any time they want?

PSLF is your best option. After 10 years, your debt is forgiven. Tax free. But the government can change this. You also need to work at a public institution or non profit for 10 years. So this may limit your career opportunities.

Pay it of as soon as you can but this means you have to make a lot of sacrifice. You need to work more and you need to save more and spend less. This may also mean you would have to delay major life decisions like getting married, buying a house. You are basically trading your youth and time for your debt.

The way I see it...if you have less than 200 k, refinance your loans to a lower rate and pay it off as soon as you can. 200-250 k is the gray area. If you have more than 250 k, get on PSLF (if you can't then PAYE) and just hope the government doesn't change the rules. If you get on PAYE or IBR, just remember that you have to pay income tax on any amount that is forgiven after 20 or 25 years so expect to pay at least 30% tax on the forgiven amount.
 
This is what I am doing now. I worked my ass off to get out of Rite Aid and into a nonprofit hospital where I get paid more and do less. 10 years from now and I'll be solid with PLSF. It's been my plan the whole time since I owe ~290 K. I'm already near thirty so I can't be waiting till I'm 50 to be able to buy a house.
 
BMBiology said:
This question is pretty straight forward but difficult to answer.

How much are you willing to sacrifice? Your youth, time, lifestyle

How much risk are you willing to take knowing the government can change the rules any time they want?

PSLF is your best option. After 10 years, your debt is forgiven. Tax free. But the government can change this. You also need to work at a public institution or non profit for 10 years. So this may limit your career opportunities.

Pay it of as soon as you can but this means you have to make a lot of sacrifice. You need to work more and you need to save more and spend less. This may also mean you would have to delay major life decisions like getting married, buying a house. You are basically trading your youth and time for your debt.

The way I see it...if you have less than 200 k, refinance your loans to a lower rate and pay it off as soon as you can. 200-250 k is the gray area. If you have more than 250 k, get on PSLF (if you can't then PAYE) and just hope the government doesn't change the rules. If you get on PAYE or IBR, just remember that you have to pay income tax on any amount that is forgiven after 20 or 25 years so expect to pay at least 30% tax on the forgiven amount.
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Did you include the risk of getting fired or demoted to part time at the public institution? Or what happens to the forgiveness if you miss a payment during the 10 years? I haven't read much into it. Thanks for your explanation.
 
a student said:
Did you include the risk of getting fired or demoted to part time at the public institution? Or what happens to the forgiveness if you miss a payment during the 10 years? I haven't read much into it. Thanks for your explanation.
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That is a possibility especially at a public/union hospital. The last hired is always the first to go.

You must work at least 30 hours a week in order to qualify for PSLF. It doesn't have to be 10 years straight so you can miss a payment, just as long as you have paid 120 monthly payments.

I still don't know if the government will change the rules. Right now the forgiven amount under PSLF is not taxable. However, the house republicans proposed last year to change this. They want to make the debt forgiven a taxable event just like other debt. So lets say you will make 150 k on year 10 and 250 k is forgiven, you would then need to pay income tax on 400 k.

I also don't see this as a republican vs democratic issue especially once the public hears how well paid professionals are getting 250 k forgiven as they struggle to put food on the table. Even Obama had proposed capping the forgiveness amount to just 57.5 k. By taxing the forgiven amount, there is no point for a pharmacist to be on PSLF because you will end up paying more...a lot more.
 
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BMBiology said:
I also don't see this as a republican vs democratic issue especially once the public hears how well paid professionals are getting 250 k forgiven as they struggle to put food on the table. Even Obama had proposed capping the forgiveness amount to just 57.5 k. By taxing the forgiven amount, there is no point for a pharmacist to be on PSLF because you will end up paying more...a lot more.
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I don't think any of us are "struggling to put food on the table" The public who makes 1/3 to 1/2 of what we make will see it as well paid professionalys are having to sacrifice our trips to Europe to pay our student loans that we willingly signed up for.
 
BMBiology said:
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I just realized I read your reponse wrong. I though you were saying that the "well paid professionals" were having trouble putting food on the table. You mean the public was having that problem,. my bad
 
I didn't fathom that most of you pharm guys owed so much.... I guess times have changed. When my wife and I got out in 2008, we were owing a fraction of that amount. For her, I think it was just shy of 6 figures.

W19 said:
Do you guys/gals think I should get out ASAP? MS1 and projected debt ~260k... I cry every time I think about that blockbuster amount... It would have been 200k had I gone to pharm school...
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So you think that a $60K delta is sufficient for you to take a career in pharmacy when everyone here is saying that the sky is falling? Not much conviction in that medicine career I see. Maybe you should get out now.
 
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As this thread goes on, I just received my available loan amount e-mail. I can take out $58,587. This is the problem! There is no way in hell I should be able to take that much out especially since they take "tuition" into account and mine is like $19K or something.

Luckily, I will be only taking out about 11K this year.
 
Exactly 20k a year including rent/food/literally everything

In-state
 
Monsterdaddy said:
Well, get ready to be pissed when I get $400K in loans and accrued interest forgiven. Enjoy!
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Lol that tax bill on that would be higher than my entire loan. Seems like it would make sense to go to an affordable school and pay it off in 3-4 years as opposed to going 200k+ in debt... paying interest for 10 years and then being hit with a tax bill upon forgiveness. You probably end up paying more once it's said and done plus have to deal with it longer.
 
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BMBiology said:
It is going to be a race against time. Just wait until 2017 when the government starts to forgive these loans to well paid healthcare professionals. I can already hear the public outcry.
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Totally agree with this, I doubt that it's going to be in place for long.

W19 said:
You got married to reduce your tax burden--not because you were in love...
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Love is made in such ways....

 
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